What is this ribbon? Is it a CAP ribbon?

[skymaster]

Only awards allowed to be worn on Active Duty Air Force uniforms are allowed. No State awards or organizational awards.

I do not believe that that statement is entirely correct. I know for a fact that National Headquarters made a specific exception circa 1994, at the strong urging of both Georgia's Adjutant General and Governor at the time, for those Georgia Wing personnel who participated in the Southwest Georgia Flood Relief missions that year to be awarded (and allowed to wear on a CAP uniform), the Georgia Department of Defense Humanitarian Service Ribbon. The ribbon looks like this:



And this was not just a ribbon worn by a few members at some out-of- the-way rural area squadron where the Ma Blue might not notice. The GAWG participation in the relief mission was central enough to the overall prosecution of the state's mission, and involved enough GAWG personnel at the time, that a good 1/4th of the active membership of the Wing at the time participated, including CAP's future National Legal Officer, COL Barry Herrin. If you see a photo of him in his service dress uniform, he still wears it. Now, if it was NOT authorised for wear, wouldn't anyone think that (of ALL people) that the National Legal Officer would know what the wear rules ultimately are. I am not saying that I recommend that all CAP members go out and put whatever they like on their uniform. I am saying, however, that NHQ has made an exception to that policy a couple of times in the past.

[Eclipse]

Between age, die lots, and poor manufacturing controls, orange can look gold, yellow, or anything in between.

Put them on a scanner or take a decent pic and show us what they look like.

I can take a decent pic, but I still am not allowed to upload them here...

Hopefully that will happen to me soon (maybe after I reach post #50?) and then I will be happy to post a pic.

Upload it to an imagehost such as Imageshack, use the [IMG] tags to link back to the pic.

[Eclipse]

Only awards allowed to be worn on Active Duty Air Force uniforms are allowed. No State awards or organizational awards.

I do not believe that that statement is entirely correct. I know for a fact that National Headquarters made a specific exception circa 1994, at the strong urging of both Georgia's Adjutant General and Governor at the time, for those Georgia Wing personnel who participated in the Southwest Georgia Flood Relief missions that year to be awarded (and allowed to wear on a CAP uniform), the Georgia Department of Defense Humanitarian Service Ribbon. The ribbon looks like this:



And this was not just a ribbon worn by a few members at some out-of- the-way rural area squadron where the Ma Blue might not notice. The GAWG participation in the relief mission was central enough to the overall prosecution of the state's mission, and involved enough GAWG personnel at the time, that a good 1/4th of the active membership of the Wing at the time participated, including CAP's future National Legal Officer, COL Barry Herrin. If you see a photo of him in his service dress uniform, he still wears it. Now, if it was NOT authorised for wear, wouldn't anyone think that (of ALL people) that the National Legal Officer would know what the wear rules ultimately are. I am not saying that I recommend that all CAP members go out and put whatever they like on their uniform. I am saying, however, that NHQ has made an exception to that policy a couple of times in the past.

Probably a wives tale, wouldn't be the first time.  Absent an approved 39-3 supplement, it's ain't authorized, no matter where the member is posted.

[Private Investigator]

Only awards allowed to be worn on Active Duty Air Force uniforms are allowed. No State awards or organizational awards.

I do not believe that that statement is entirely correct. I know for a fact that National Headquarters made a specific exception circa 1994, at the strong urging of both Georgia's Adjutant General and Governor at the time, for those Georgia Wing personnel who participated in the Southwest Georgia Flood Relief missions that year to be awarded (and allowed to wear on a CAP uniform), the Georgia Department of Defense Humanitarian Service Ribbon. The ribbon looks like this:



And this was not just a ribbon worn by a few members at some out-of- the-way rural area squadron where the Ma Blue might not notice. The GAWG participation in the relief mission was central enough to the overall prosecution of the state's mission, and involved enough GAWG personnel at the time, that a good 1/4th of the active membership of the Wing at the time participated, including CAP's future National Legal Officer, COL Barry Herrin. If you see a photo of him in his service dress uniform, he still wears it. Now, if it was NOT authorised for wear, wouldn't anyone think that (of ALL people) that the National Legal Officer would know what the wear rules ultimately are. I am not saying that I recommend that all CAP members go out and put whatever they like on their uniform. I am saying, however, that NHQ has made an exception to that policy a couple of times in the past.

Probably a wives tale, wouldn't be the first time.  Absent an approved 39-3 supplement, it's ain't authorized, no matter where the member is posted.

I concur.

On vacation out of state I went to a parade that the local CAP Squadron was participating in and a CAP 2LT had something like 32 ribbons. He mentioned in his Wing they allow Air NG ribbons. YOLO 

[UH60guy]

I would suggest that if this is for a CAP squadron's supply of ribbons, you just open up CAPR 39-3 to page 32 and try to match everything up. If it doesn't match, toss it to the side because you're likely not supposed to be wearing it.

Many of what you have are probably JROTC if they're not in here, judging by your previous find.

[Hawk200]

On vacation out of state I went to a parade that the local CAP Squadron was participating in and a CAP 2LT had something like 32 ribbons. He mentioned in his Wing they allow Air NG ribbons. YOLO 

I've got at least that many, and that's not counting the state decs (which I only have four.)

I still don't see how state decs aren't authorized, they are not forbidden and were authorized in previous versions of 39-1 as far as order of precedence. They are decorations awarded in writing by competent military authority. They may not be authorized on military uniforms at certain times, but they are still permitted. Most Guardsmen aren't exactly awash in these decs, they aren't just handed out, and many times are harder to get than some Federal decs.

[Shuman 14]

On vacation out of state I went to a parade that the local CAP Squadron was participating in and a CAP 2LT had something like 32 ribbons. He mentioned in his Wing they allow Air NG ribbons. YOLO 

I've got at least that many, and that's not counting the state decs (which I only have four.)

I still don't see how state decs aren't authorized, they are not forbidden and were authorized in previous versions of 39-1 as far as order of precedence. They are decorations awarded in writing by competent military authority. They may not be authorized on military uniforms at certain times, but they are still permitted. Most Guardsmen aren't exactly awash in these decs, they aren't just handed out, and many times are harder to get than some Federal decs.

Because Eclipse said so... and that's the end of it!   

[Eclipse]

Because Eclipse said so... and that's the end of it!   

...about time somebody said it!

[Mitchell 1969]

On vacation out of state I went to a parade that the local CAP Squadron was participating in and a CAP 2LT had something like 32 ribbons. He mentioned in his Wing they allow Air NG ribbons. YOLO 

I've got at least that many, and that's not counting the state decs (which I only have four.)

I still don't see how state decs aren't authorized, they are not forbidden and were authorized in previous versions of 39-1 as far as order of precedence. They are decorations awarded in writing by competent military authority. They may not be authorized on military uniforms at certain times, but they are still permitted. Most Guardsmen aren't exactly awash in these decs, they aren't just handed out, and many times are harder to get than some Federal decs.

Because CAP isn't a state-level organization. But more importantly, because USAF doesn't permit it for their federal vs state level people. USAF's uniform, USAF's rules.

[flyboy53]

On vacation out of state I went to a parade that the local CAP Squadron was participating in and a CAP 2LT had something like 32 ribbons. He mentioned in his Wing they allow Air NG ribbons. YOLO 

I've got at least that many, and that's not counting the state decs (which I only have four.)

I still don't see how state decs aren't authorized, they are not forbidden and were authorized in previous versions of 39-1 as far as order of precedence. They are decorations awarded in writing by competent military authority. They may not be authorized on military uniforms at certain times, but they are still permitted. Most Guardsmen aren't exactly awash in these decs, they aren't just handed out, and many times are harder to get than some Federal decs.

Because CAP isn't a state-level organization. But more importantly, because USAF doesn't permit it for their federal vs state level people. USAF's uniform, USAF's rules.

Cite the reference. The real Air Force rule is that you can't wear National Guard ribbons while serving on active duty. We're not on active duty. This is actually a National Board rule because back in the day you could wear your National Guard ribbons on a CAP uniform. There was even a time when federal ribbons could not be worn.

Furthermore, if a wing gets the authority to wear a certain ribbon, that's between the Wing and Region commanders and NHQ. In my time in the Air Force, I have seen exceptions to policy about National Guard ribbons worn by Air Force Reserve members -- one in particular with the Ohio Air National Guard because of the mission the ribbon represented. I wouldn't be surprised if the same exception to policy existed in this organization because -- afterall we are civilian volunteers.

[lordmonar]

5-4. Military Service Awards. Military service ribbons may be worn on the CAP AF-style uniform
provided they were awarded in writing by competent military authority. Awards of the Air Force,
Army, Navy, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard will be worn in the order prescribed by the awarding
service, subject to the following: In all cases of relative priority, Air Force awards will take precedence.
See Table 5-3. Awards for wars, campaigns, expeditions etc., will be worn in chronological sequence.

So....yes while in the NG/SG you get to wear state ribbons.....but while we are not AD.....we are also NOT NG or SG....we are the Civil Air Patrol the USAF AUX so we go by our rules.

Which state we follow AD USAF rules for awards.

If in doubt you can always ask NHQ for clarification.

[PHall]

I have asked National HQ  (Suzie Parker) if you can wear National Guard ribbons on the Civil Air Patrol uniform.
The answer I got back was that only "Federal" ribbons could be worn. No "State" or SDF ribbons.
You can verify this with Ned Lee too, because he was told the same thing.