Revalation

[♠SARKID♠]

Coast Guard - 40,150 active duty men and women
Civil Air Patrol - 65,000 members

We're bigger than the coast guard...kinda surprising IMHO.

[SarDragon]

But how many of the Coasties sit at home on their {FPOCs} and do nothing while still being members?

[Short Field]

Coast Guard Auxiliary has 27,000 members - all adults. 

I found this very interesting:   The Auxillary is authorized to participate in any and all Coast Guard missions except military combat and law enforcement.  33 CFR 5.31 states that: Members of the Auxiliary, when assigned to specific duties shall, unless otherwise limited by the Commandant, be vested with the power and authority, in execution of such duties, as members of the regular Coast Guard assigned to similar duties. ... Unlike their counterparts in the Civil Air Patrol, Auxiliarists come under direct orders of the Coast Guard.

[♠SARKID♠]

The Auxillary is authorized to participate in any and all Coast Guard missions except military combat and law enforcement.

Coasties are small enough for them to do that.  We can't have a relationship like that with the Air Force because their jobs are too specialized, and too diverse.  The CG has a smaller task list and therefore has the time and ability to take on Auxiliary help.

[Eclipse]

But how many of the Coasties sit at home on their {FPOCs} and do nothing while still being members?

We also haven't had 65,000 members for a LONG time - the number today is more like 56-57k.

Do the math on senior vs. cadets - now you're in the neighborhood of 38k (major WAG).

Filter inactivity and non-ES, and you're probably in the ballpark of 15-20k of adults in the program involved in
anything close to what the CG does.

Statistics are useless unless they are accurate and interpreted correctly.

[Eclipse]

Coast Guard Auxiliary has 27,000 members - all adults. 

I found this very interesting:   The Auxillary is authorized to participate in any and all Coast Guard missions except military combat and law enforcement.  33 CFR 5.31 states that: Members of the Auxiliary, when assigned to specific duties shall, unless otherwise limited by the Commandant, be vested with the power and authority, in execution of such duties, as members of the regular Coast Guard assigned to similar duties. ... Unlike their counterparts in the Civil Air Patrol, Auxiliarists come under direct orders of the Coast Guard.

And what, specifically, >are< the duties of the CG after you strip our combat and law enforcement?

[RiverAux]

Other very critical CG duties are search and rescue, aids to navigation, boating safety, environmental protection, some mariner licensing oversight, etc. 

The AF has authority to use CAP members for all non combat missions also, they just chose not to use it in general (unfortunately). 

[tribalelder]

Yes, USAF uses CAP very differently than USCG uses its auxiliary.

For the most part, USAF uses CAP as a subcontractor.  Most of the missions turned over to CAP are turned over from the management level (IC) all the way down.  When CAP is done with the mission, we tell USAF.  USAF has very few domestic assets for the missions CAP performs on USAF's behalf.  SAR/DR are not core USAF business.

USCG uses its auxiliarists as augmentees-add'l personnel--under closer USCG management for tasks that ARE USCG core business. 

[Eclipse]

Other very critical CG duties are search and rescue, aids to navigation, boating safety, environmental protection, some mariner licensing oversight, etc. 

The AF has authority to use CAP members for all non combat missions also, they just chose not to use it in general (unfortunately). 

I see the navaids, environmental issues, and boating stuff as an extention of LE, if only because they do have the force of law behind them.

IMHO SAR is the biggest thing they do besides, and for the most part the type they do - over water,rotorcraft-based, stuff we can't , or don't want to get involved in.

My assumption is that the intention of the original thread was to make some connection between the
total-force of CG vs. CAP, etc., and with no intention of downplaying the CG's importance, there's just less
>coast< then there is >land<, which means from a force needs, they can do it all with less people.

Of course that doesn't accomodate the use of CG people in real combat or LE roles overseas, which just boggles my mind.

[mikeylikey]

Why are we ONCE AGAIN debating who is better CGAUX or CAP??  Too different organizations folks!  Like Apples and Wine, don't compare the two (heard that one on MSNBC this morning).

[SeattleSarge]

Not to poke holes in your numbers, but....

As of October 2006, The United States Coast Guard has about 41,000 men and women on active duty, 8,100 reservists, 7,000 full time civilian employees and 37,000 auxiliarists.

That 65K number for CAP isn't accurate either... CAP NHQ says the number is 56K, but I seriously think that's high as well.

As previous members have stated, you really can't compare the two side by side.  Maybe that's why some of us are sliding that way...

-SeattleSarge

[Short Field]

As the man said, "apples and oranges". 

It really isn't a matter of better or worse but what particular interests you have and what really motivates you to volunteer your time and money.  As one member keeps reminding us, CAP stands for Come and Pay.    But I did get another zero added to the front of my paycheck last month .

[ELTHunter]

CAP tried something similar to what the CGAUX does with boating safety by trying the "drop in inspections" program back in the late 90's - early 2000's.  That didn't fly very well (excuse the pun)  because CAP pilots didn't like doing it and civilian pilots didn't like it either.

[ddelaney103]

CAP tried something similar to what the CGAUX does with boating safety by trying the "drop in inspections" program back in the late 90's - early 2000's.  That didn't fly very well (excuse the pun)  because CAP pilots didn't like doing it and civilian pilots didn't like it either.

Negative, Ghostrider...

"Operation Drop In" was a program that had CAP aircrews "dropping in" to airports and checking out aircraft to see if they had been modified to facilitate drug smuggling (removing wheel boots or backseats, marks of operation on dirt strips, etc) and taking down their N#'s to give to the FAA.  There is no comparison b/w this (non-permissive) inspection and the voluntary safety inspections performed by the CGAUX.

While Drop In was lucrative for CAP, it was a public relations nightmare.  In the eyes of the aviation community we had moved from their potential saviors to (literal) narcs.

[♠SARKID♠]

Okay folks, when I posted those numbers, I wasnt challenging anything.  I'm not saying anyone is better than anyone else.  I just brought it up because I found it interesting that we had more people (okay, I concur after review, its closer to 56K on our side) than the CG.  Just an interesting little factoid, not a challenge or proposition.

[JayT]

Other very critical CG duties are search and rescue, aids to navigation, boating safety, environmental protection, some mariner licensing oversight, etc. 

The AF has authority to use CAP members for all non combat missions also, they just chose not to use it in general (unfortunately). 

I don't think it's unfortunate at all. I think that CAP as it stands today would be unwilling or unable to push any real, nation wide, signficate benefit to the Air Force beyond what we already do.

Do we have doctors, nurses, lawyers, paramedics, and other professionals? Yes. But would they be willing to suddently commit a major proportion of their time when it wasn't what they signed up for? I'm not sure. We would need to totally revamp our program, and the Air Force would have to become more and more of our existance.

Could we have doctors/nurses/EMTs working at local military hospitals legally on a volunteer bases? Would there be any need for me to work at the local Air National Guard base as a CAP EMT? Could CAP lawyers realistically work at a military JAG office?

[ddelaney103]

Other very critical CG duties are search and rescue, aids to navigation, boating safety, environmental protection, some mariner licensing oversight, etc. 

The AF has authority to use CAP members for all non combat missions also, they just chose not to use it in general (unfortunately). 

I don't think it's unfortunate at all. I think that CAP as it stands today would be unwilling or unable to push any real, nation wide, signficate benefit to the Air Force beyond what we already do.

Do we have doctors, nurses, lawyers, paramedics, and other professionals? Yes. But would they be willing to suddently commit a major proportion of their time when it wasn't what they signed up for? I'm not sure. We would need to totally revamp our program, and the Air Force would have to become more and more of our existance.

Could we have doctors/nurses/EMTs working at local military hospitals legally on a volunteer bases? Would there be any need for me to work at the local Air National Guard base as a CAP EMT? Could CAP lawyers realistically work at a military JAG office?

Yes.

The people best suited to assist the CONUS AF are those holding professional certifications.

The bast working model for CAP support to the AF are the Chaplains.  Since the professional requirements for CAP Chaplains are the same as the USAF, there's little spinup needed.

I suspect that a similar arrangement could be made for nurses, doctors and lawyers.  Having a doctor who was in the hospital a few days a month would be a great help.  As long as the board certifications were in order, they could be a way to give the staff a little more breathing room.

While lawyers might not be able to do some of the military justice roles, it would be simple for them to assist in the wills, PoA's and other civil legal documents that are created for deploying Airmen.  This would allow the JA to concentrate on more military matters.

[RiverAux]

Not to poke holes in your numbers, but....

As of October 2006, The United States Coast Guard has about 41,000 men and women on active duty, 8,100 reservists, 7,000 full time civilian employees and 37,000 auxiliarists.

I don't think those CG Aux numbers were accurate even back in Oct. 2006.  Current CG Aux membership as of 10/14/07 is 30,062 including those who have applied, but have not yet been accepted to membership. 

Absolutely no comparison between CAP's drop in program and CG Aux boat inspections.  A better equivalent would be if CAPF-77 were slightly modified and CAP members offerred to do free inspections of private aircraft using it as their basis. 

[RRLE]

I suspect that a similar arrangement could be made for nurses, doctors and lawyers.  Having a doctor who was in the hospital a few days a month would be a great help.

They might not be as welcome as you would think. The Aux does or did have such a program where Auxies who were doctors, dentists, nurses, EMTs etc could register to work at CG clinics. The Auxie who got the program going, Dr Lavy, had to fight the Aux and even elements of the CG tooth and nail to get it going. But he did. Then 'they' started putting restrictions on participation. For no obvious reason, you had to live within 50 miles of the clinic in order to volunteer. There were other restricitons as well.

Dr Lavy was recently 'eased out' of his position at CGHQ and the program turned over to 'regular' program management. That will effectively kill the program. And who were the reported behind-the-scenes opponents of the program? The USPHS - apparently they didn't like having free (and often retired) doctors etc taking over thier assignments.

[SeattleSarge]

In the spirit of accuracy, here's what I received this morning from Susie Parker:

As of the end of September we had 22,009 cadets and 34,455 seniors for a total of 56,464.  Let me know if you need anything else.


SUSAN P. PARKER
National Headquarters, Civil Air Patrol
105 S. Hansell Street
Maxwell AFB AL 36112-6332
Voice:  877-227-9142, extension 212
Fax:  334-953-4262

-SeattleSarge