Politics...and not the CAP kind...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I am not talking about the kind of politics that unfortunately pervades CAP; i.e., the GOB network, etc.

I am talking about politics, as in the kind that has got our country so divided along ideological lines; i.e., the whole "liberal v. conservative" Bravo Sierra.

CAP is supposed to be an apolitical organisation.  We are all supposed to be people who serve in CAP for love of country and community and proudly wear the uniform regardless of political beliefs.  I know that, and in a perfect world there would be no problems within CAP with such matters.

Unfortunately, we do not live in a perfect world, and people have opinions.

Especially with this being an election year, and probably the bitterest election year I can recall in my lifetime, it seems like a lot of people (aided and abetted by their favourite TV/radio mouthpieces of various persuasions) are really airing those views.

Some of those people are within CAP.

I am not one of them.  I have a candidate's bumper sticker on my car, but that is it.  I don't talk about it at all when I am at any CAP related activity.

So, my question is, how to handle it when a discussion turns political...especially when you're in the minority view and those fellow CAP members around you are becoming quite vocal in favour of one position, and equally vocal against another?

[a2capt]

There is no Right turn. I usually take it as a cue that I probably had something else to be doing in the first place ...

....and that becomes an action item. It's pointless.
religion and politics
...and be good and ready to answer politely what asked if he cares to say why.

[Eclipse]

I haven't found myself in that situation, but if I did I would tell them to knock it off.

[CAP4117]

I make it a policy not to discuss politics whenever in any sort of uniform (Red Cross, CAP, CERT, etc.). If people around me are doing it, I normally just don't engage.

[Garibaldi]

I don't know what the personal political leanings of the members in my unit are, nor do I care. DADT, in this case, is a good thing. However, should the conversation turn to the future of our country, economy and whatnot, I would simply remind folks that this is not the proper forum for that sort of discussion, be it a CAP meeting, GT training, or our upcoming awards banquet. Like I said in a different thread, internal politics aside, CAP is not a political organization, and cannot publicly state support for one party or another, or one candidate or another, or one cause or another.

Generally, though, everyone is pretty good about not discussing politics in our meetings.

[LGM30GMCC]

If its starting to get out of hand. 'I really think we need to get back to discussing X Y and Z.'

Or...if you want to start a different fire and let them vent.

"What do we think about this uniform combination or idea?" 

[manfredvonrichthofen]

When it comes to politics, I stay clear of any discussion , it just turns into argument almost every time.

However, if it comes up at any function where we represent CAP, even civilian clothing during PT, I don't like it happening, for the simple fact that anyone can ask who we are, and when we tell them we are the Civil Air Patrol, we are immediately branded as supporting that guy or idea as a whole. Just like any public service outside of law enforcement, we should not be airing our ideals, aside from morals. It does no good for any involved.

Just make it an SOP, that it's not brought up during functions, if you aren't in that position, propose it.

[Spaceman3750]

I do the same thing I do at work... Disengage from the conversation. If it turns heated or starts bothering others, I would politely ask them to discontinue it while at a CAP activity.

I'm a political moderate, which usually means I am unwelcome in such discussions anyways .

[ZigZag911]

This is one respect in which CAP should mirror regular military practice -- politics is not an appropriate topic in any situation directly involving CAP. Experienced members, particularly commanders, should make this clear to all personnel, politely but firmly. Explain that it is military custom (which, as I understand it, is the case.)

If seniors socialize on their own time and want to spoil a good time discussing these dilemmas, that's completely different.

[Walkman]

During the last presidential election I had to remind a few cadets that partisan political talk wasn't appropriate for a CAP event. I also reminded them that the whoever would be elected would be the Commander-in-Chief, and when in uniform to keep that in mind.

(Before the flames start: I know POTUS isn't in our direct CoC in the same manner as the RM. I brought it out because we all need to be aware of how we are perceived while in uniform.)

We've had a few scenarios in our recent CharDev sessions where the situation discussed is part of an outside political issue. In order to prevent these devolving into the wrong kind of debate, I tell the cadets to consider their personal code of ethics & beliefs and how they might fit into the larger picture. Without specifying an political party or stance, or supporting any particular view, I remind those that can vote this year that it's their duty to do careful research during an election and be an informed voter. So far, despite a few cadets that tend to be outspoken, we haven't had any CharDev class get into partisan politics.

I haven't run into any political talk during a CAP event among SMs yet, for which I'm grateful. Everyone in my unit seems to do a good job of keeping this in their proper place.

[Nathan]

We're kind in a weird situation. We're trying to teach the cadets to be good citizens, which means teaching them to digest the issues and make informed decisions at the voting booth. On the other hand, we apparently think it would be destructive to use CAP as a way to practice this type of critical thinking, even though the cadet program is bascially designed to be a safe environment in which to practice real-world skills.

So we end up spending all of our time teaching them to think critically about hypotheticals and situations which rarely happen, but when they want to engage on issues that are affecting them right now (and that they may even be able to vote on, or will be able to soon), we hush them up and tell them that it's not appropriate.

Hrm.

Some people "maintain discipline and neutrality" by cutting off all discussion of politically-charged material completely. Others, like myself, see these situations to be excellent, tailor-made scenarios to practice critical thinking, communication, listening skills, and respect, and feel it's far better to monitor them carefully. We allow them to be exposed to viewpoints that differ from their own, because that builds open-minded people who understand the world outside of their own perspective.

At the end of the day, if a civilized political debate causes a rift in the ranks, then it's a failure of the leadership to properly enforce respect and discipline. Squelching all comments about the real-world scenarios we're supposedly teaching them to handle is kind of counterproductive to our goal of creating dynamic citizens, isn't it?

[Nathan]

It isn't letting me edit my last post, but I am differentiating between using debate as a teaching tool and all-out battles between SM's in the back room, so don't start raging under the impression that I am supporting unrestricted behaviors in uniform.

[Eclipse]

Not discussing politics or religion has been a tenant of polite society for centuries, with good reason.

CAP is not going to "fix" that just because we have lofty goals for CDI discussions.

I've seen an off-handed comment about one or the other (or these days both), wreck the esprit-de-corps of a unit in a single sentence.
Public insults regarding POTUS seems to be in vogue for the last several administrations - I don't care >who< it is, or what your views are,
he's still POTUS.  Probably my favorite are the insulting "fax-poop" emails sent to CAP mailing lists.

The other practical issue is that the average cadets, especially the younger ones, are not likely to be well-informed enough
about these issues to have a legitimate personal opinion - they are most likely just to regurgitate what they have seen offhandedly
on FB, or 1/2 heard mom & dad discussing.  In which case you're not having a fact-based discussion about the issue, you're basically
just arguing with someone who has no personal opinion, but will support "whatever dad thinks".

CAP has plenty of important things to discuss with cadets that they actually care about and will affect them personally and soon. 
On the senior side, I do not care or want to know about anyone else's personal opinion regarding politics or religion.

CAP is not the appropriate place for these discussions, and the risk for both cadets and seniors is the "bully pulpit", especially for
cadets.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

These have all, in the main, been worthy responses, most of which echo my own beliefs.  Thank you.

My dad always taught me that if you get started on politics and/or religion (and the two often intertwine), eventually someone is going to get mad and things go downhill from there.

I was also taught that the President is the President and worthy of respect because of the office s/he holds, kind of a "salute the rank not the person" situation.  Regardless if we continue with President Obama or elect a President Romney (or even someone else) in November, that does not change as far as I'm concerned.

As far as cadets go...I don't think it's the best idea to try and "educate" them politically in CAP.  I think that's better reserved for Social Studies classes at school.  Whenever I am asked by a cadet, my standard response is "when you turn 18, register to vote and exercise that right."  I don't particularly care what candidate/party anyone in CAP supports.

Again, yes, I know we are not covered by the same strictures of the UCMJ regarding disrespect to the CinC that the RealMilitary is, but we should endeavour to voluntarily appear as apolitical as possible, within our organisation and to the outside world.

The bumper sticker on my car I have is as a private citizen.  It is not intended to connote CAP/AF endorsement, even though a CAP officer is driving the car.

A very disturbing thing happened to my wife a few months ago while she was in a drive-through at McDonalds.  She has a similar bumper sticker and a bunch of loudmouths in the car behind her started yelling abuse at her for it...I wish I had been there, because likely had she not been alone, they wouldn't have had the guts to do that.  It disturbs me that political discourse has come to this, where one's choice of candidate/party supposedly indicates their character, patriotism or lack thereof.

It's horrible that it's that way at all...I hope it doesn't get that way in CAP.

[♠SARKID♠]

So, my question is, how to handle it when a discussion turns political...especially when you're in the minority view and those fellow CAP members around you are becoming quite vocal in favour of one position, and equally vocal against another?

I generally start talking about the imaginary abscess under my arm that I named Chuck.  Stops the conversation dead.

[Al Sayre]

I generally try to limit the political stuff to those things that directly affect CAP  For example: "Ask your congress people to support the gold medal for our WWII members.", or "We probably won't be seeing much in the o'flight  or training budgets until after the elections."

[JeffDG]

I guess I have a slight advantage.

I have the excuse of "As someone who is not a US Citizen, I feel it is inappropriate for me to tell US Citizens how they should conduct their affairs on the political stage, now if you'll excuse me, there's a doughnut over there with my name on it."

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I guess I have a slight advantage.

I have the excuse of "As someone who is not a US Citizen, I feel it is inappropriate for me to tell US Citizens how they should conduct their affairs on the political stage, now if you'll excuse me, there's a doughnut over there with my name on it."

All well and good...until someone asks you, "well, what about Stephen Harper's chances in the next election, or the fact that the PQ is back in power in Quebec?" J/K.

I generally start talking about the imaginary abscess under my arm that I named Chuck.  Stops the conversation dead.

Nice one.  I wonder if it would work with describing flatulence...

[Garibaldi]

"So what do you think of Candidate A..."
"Oh no...my explosive diarrhea! GANGWAY!!!"

[Nathan]

Ah, I see. So the consensus is, "We never learned how to discuss as adults situations that affect the entire country, so we should not be attempting to teach the next generation of adults and voters how to do such things so that maybe our country has a better chance of engaging in more mature debates about politically sensitive subjects in the future and have some hope of actually solving these problems, even though one of the goals of the cadet program is to build dynamic citizens and leaders in our country."

Got it.