Two questions on daylights savings time -
1) Why do we still have it?
2) Why can't we just get rid of it? I GET SO CONFUSED!
1) because people are afraid of change
2) because people are afraid of change
I say a revolt by not following it, I mean seriously what would they do if most of the country just didn't do it.
^ They would screw with our TV channels and times!
Have a couple of kids and try getting them to go to bed when it is still daylight. ;D
When I lived in Indiana, there was no Daylight Savings Time, no changing clocks twice a year. We got along just fine with everyone else also! However, I look forward to gaining an hour of immediate sunlight at the end of the day! Doesn't everyone???
Quote from: mikeylikey on March 08, 2008, 03:50:35 PM
When I lived in Indiana, there was no Daylight Savings Time, no changing clocks twice a year. We got along just fine with everyone else also! However, I look forward to gaining an hour of immediate sunlight at the end of the day! Doesn't everyone???
OK new plan, we follow it this time but next time when we are supposed to move the clocks back an hour we just ignore it.
I would not be surprised if we start next year by advancing the clocks 2 hours (for the fuel economy and all, right Bush?)
Back in the 70's, during the energy crisis,.....they tried daylight savings all year long....folks complained it was dark out when they sent the kids to school and farmers didn't like it.
I am for it, as during the summer if we didn't have it, sun up in my parts would be 0440....like I need sun at that time shining in on my sleeping head. With daylight savings 0540 is still plenty early for that sun to "brighten" my day.
Quote from: Smokey on March 08, 2008, 11:27:13 PM
Back in the 70's, during the energy crisis,.....they tried daylight savings all year long....folks complained it was dark out when they sent the kids to school and farmers didn't like it.
I am for it, as during the summer if we didn't have it, sun up in my parts would be 0440....like I need sun at that time shining in on my sleeping head. With daylight savings 0540 is still plenty early for that sun to "brighten" my day.
Like I said people are afraid of change, I remember walking to the bus stop while it was still dark out, and thats with day light savings. And yes it was uphill both ways in 45 feet of snow, or whatever.
I'm not sure there is a big group of people out there clamoring to keep DST because they're afraid of change.
Most of you folks are not old enough to remember when Daylight Savings Time was instituted: I am. It started in WWII, when it was adopted in order for the farmers to have more daylight to farm in: increased the hours of daylight for them to work on growing food. It also has the additional benefit of reducing the darkness hours when most folks require more electricity and fuel to heat houses and cook. Of course, it doesn't reduce the hours of darkness, just puts them in a different part of one's day.
The changing of the months when DST is in effect about two years ago was to try to save fuel, again.
Sorry if it inconvenienced you when you were going to school: sometimes, there are good and sufficient reasons to do things, even those done by politicians.
BTW: England had double daylight savings time during WWII, for all the same reasons as the US.
A little history lesson!!!!
check out the wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time
Seems like the energy benefits are marginal at best if the entry is fairly accurate in its representations. News to me.
I would be cautious about trusting wikipedia for precise energy savings estimates...don't get me wrong, it's a great resource, but the fact that the author isn't held accountable for what he or she writes makes it not a reliable source of information, to me.
I don't know why people get in such a fuss about Daylight Savings time. I personally love having the extra hours of daylight to get things accomplished, and I would propose that despite our shared despise towards politicians, if Congress collectively thought it was worth the investment (again), then I would venture to say it probably is. I live 8 miles for another time zone and frequently travel into it, so time change doesn't bother me.
See? What did I tell you? - I'm up an hour earlier than I needed to be, and I'm not happy about it! Grr.
Quote from: jayburns22 on March 09, 2008, 03:45:22 AM
I would be cautious about trusting wikipedia for precise energy savings estimates...don't get me wrong, it's a great resource, but the fact that the author isn't held accountable for what he or she writes makes it not a reliable source of information, to me.
I don't know why people get in such a fuss about Daylight Savings time. I personally love having the extra hours of daylight to get things accomplished, and I would propose that despite our shared despise towards politicians, if Congress collectively thought it was worth the investment (again), then I would venture to say it probably is. I live 8 miles for another time zone and frequently travel into it, so time change doesn't bother me.
Well there is plenty of information here:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/07/0728_050728_daylight.html
http://www.energy.ca.gov/2007publications/CEC-200-2007-004/CEC-200-2007-004.PDF
Plus the 100 sources at the bottom of the Wikipedia article.
It's not just Wikipedia. It's been well reported in the media before; DST doesn't really save any energy and may cause higher AM energy usage that negates any supposed savings. As was stated above, people don't like change. Indiana and places all over the world which don't observe any sort of DST get along just fine. Their kids go to bed, their energy bills don't skyrocket, and the world still rotates.
But if you got rid of DST then Marines wouldn't know when it is time to roll up/down their sleeves. >:D ;D
The change of the clock allows us to do more outdoor activities at the Corpus Christi meetings. In Kingsville, where the meetings begin at 1600 hrs, this is never an issue. However, later that evening in Corpus Christi, the sun has already set by the time we can do anything (ES, Drill, et cetra). The time change will allow the first half of that meeting to begin in the day light!
I fail to understand why Congress would pass a measure to extend DST if there wasn't some sort of advantage to it. Do you?
DST was invented to allow our farmers to be more productive. That is no longer the case since so much of our agriculture is automated. It just isn't worth it.
Quote from: afgeo4 on March 09, 2008, 07:29:10 PM
DST was invented to allow our farmers to be more productive. That is no longer the case since so much of our agriculture is automated. It just isn't worth it.
I think you have that a little backwards. Farmers have never particularly liked DST because they're usually up before the sun anyway, DST actually makes farmers less productive because there's more darkness in the mornings when they're feeding animals.
If I remember my high school American history, DST came into effect during WWI to reduce coal consumption so that more coal could be used in the war effort.
^ Agreed. The town I used to live (Evansville Indiana) actually petitioned the Federal Government to be exempt from DST. It was historically a farming town, and they used the "our Cows need sleep" motion to get exemption. So the little portion of Indiana that does not change with the rest of the country can be driven through in 20 to 25 minutes. Never phased any residents, really didn't notice any problems not adjusting clocks twice a year either!
Look to be honest I don't see how DST really has any effect, you're going to use coal/oil/gas/electricity to heat your house regardless of what time of the day it is because if its cold you'll heat it... if you normally leave for work at 6am every day, what difference does it MAKE?! It doesn't! you leave at 6am, you turn off your furnace... you come home at 5pm it is starting to get cold but it isn't cold yet you still set your temperature to your desired temperature so that when it DOES get cold 30-40-70 minutes later its already going... I fail to see how that makes any difference whether or not there is a time shift for DST... you're going to consume the same amount of energy no matter the time shift difference.
Yeah sure, the sun stays out longer, keeping your house warmer as the summer months get closer, that means there will be a decrease of need for heat not because of the time change... that is happening because of the SUN! (earth's rotation/axis is changing for the seasons).
So despite history saying that it was used to conserve energy... I don't see how that is possible by my explanation... being able to do something in a different part of the day that you wouldn't normally do when not in DST... right now its 5:30 instead of 4:30 you can still be outside rather than inside has nothing to do with energy savings... that all comes with the sun staying out much longer in the spring/summer months.
And really to be honest... I don't even wake up to time, I wake up when the sun comes up or a short while after it does... big deal... at encampment obviously this is a problem for me even though I bring my alarm clock with me. /me sighs
Quote from: mynetdude on March 10, 2008, 12:31:08 AM
Look to be honest I don't see how DST really has any effect, you're going to use coal/oil/gas/electricity to heat your house regardless of what time of the day it is because if its cold you'll heat it... if you normally leave for work at 6am every day, what difference does it MAKE?! It doesn't! you leave at 6am, you turn off your furnace... you come home at 5pm it is starting to get cold but it isn't cold yet you still set your temperature to your desired temperature so that when it DOES get cold 30-40-70 minutes later its already going... I fail to see how that makes any difference whether or not there is a time shift for DST... you're going to consume the same amount of energy no matter the time shift difference.
Yeah sure, the sun stays out longer, keeping your house warmer as the summer months get closer, that means there will be a decrease of need for heat not because of the time change... that is happening because of the SUN! (earth's rotation/axis is changing for the seasons).
So despite history saying that it was used to conserve energy... I don't see how that is possible by my explanation... being able to do something in a different part of the day that you wouldn't normally do when not in DST... right now its 5:30 instead of 4:30 you can still be outside rather than inside has nothing to do with energy savings... that all comes with the sun staying out much longer in the spring/summer months.
And really to be honest... I don't even wake up to time, I wake up when the sun comes up or a short while after it does... big deal... at encampment obviously this is a problem for me even though I bring my alarm clock with me. /me sighs
Works the same with A/C during the summer, and with the sun being out longer we will just use the same amount of energy to cool our houses/place of business regardless of what time it is.
Quote from: 2d Lt Rudin on March 10, 2008, 02:47:10 AM
Quote from: mynetdude on March 10, 2008, 12:31:08 AM
Look to be honest I don't see how DST really has any effect, you're going to use coal/oil/gas/electricity to heat your house regardless of what time of the day it is because if its cold you'll heat it... if you normally leave for work at 6am every day, what difference does it MAKE?! It doesn't! you leave at 6am, you turn off your furnace... you come home at 5pm it is starting to get cold but it isn't cold yet you still set your temperature to your desired temperature so that when it DOES get cold 30-40-70 minutes later its already going... I fail to see how that makes any difference whether or not there is a time shift for DST... you're going to consume the same amount of energy no matter the time shift difference.
Yeah sure, the sun stays out longer, keeping your house warmer as the summer months get closer, that means there will be a decrease of need for heat not because of the time change... that is happening because of the SUN! (earth's rotation/axis is changing for the seasons).
So despite history saying that it was used to conserve energy... I don't see how that is possible by my explanation... being able to do something in a different part of the day that you wouldn't normally do when not in DST... right now its 5:30 instead of 4:30 you can still be outside rather than inside has nothing to do with energy savings... that all comes with the sun staying out much longer in the spring/summer months.
And really to be honest... I don't even wake up to time, I wake up when the sun comes up or a short while after it does... big deal... at encampment obviously this is a problem for me even though I bring my alarm clock with me. /me sighs
Works the same with A/C during the summer, and with the sun being out longer we will just use the same amount of energy to cool our houses/place of business regardless of what time it is.
Well thats essentially my point, it doesn't matter what time of the day you drive, live, sleep whatever your lights will always be on when its dark, it will always go off during the daytime unless you don't have any windows or you use extremely dark courtains.
Yes the amount of daylight/night time is different in the summer than you have in the winter time for obvious said reasons. DST doesn't do anything but move you to a different "spot" in the day and in theory almost puts you into the future but not enough to be a massive change.
I have heard the "future" theory, contrary to what wikipedia says and if you go to www.timeanddate.com (http://www.timeanddate.com) they have a bit of tidbit about DST as well that explains DST in WWI/WWII and such nothing about "future" though I can see that theory as a slight happening.
Unless DST saves me $$ on Gasoline, then to hell with it! Can any of you believe I just paid near $60.00 to fill the tank up. It would be different if I didn't remember it took only around $20.00 just a few years ago.
Man....MSNBC reports that before summer hits (with anticipatory demand) GAS may be $4.50, and by the end of summer well over $5.00 This is going to be real huge.
Sorry to shift topics, but DST means more people will be out driving in the daylight longer than usual.....right?!?!?
Quote from: mikeylikey on March 10, 2008, 04:50:09 AM
Unless DST saves me $$ on Gasoline, then to hell with it! Can any of you believe I just paid near $60.00 to fill the tank up. It would be different if I didn't remember it took only around $20.00 just a few years ago.
Man....MSNBC reports that before summer hits (with anticipatory demand) GAS may be $4.50, and by the end of summer well over $5.00 This is going to be real huge.
Sorry to shift topics, but DST means more people will be out driving in the daylight longer than usual.....right?!?!?
Lucky you - my last $60 fill up was almost a year ago. I got off cheap yesterday at $87 cuz I only put 24 gallons in my 'Burb.
The PT Crusier I drive, bought for economics, takes about $25 to fill up. I try to keep it full or a least 3/4 so i won't have to drop so much.
^ They must have changed those cars, when they first came out, fuel burn rate was terrible...
Quote from: mikeylikey on March 10, 2008, 04:59:42 AM
^ They must have changed those cars, when they first came out, fuel burn rate was terrible...
I drive a 2001, and have always had decent fuel economy. It used to take about 13 dollars to fill it up.
Reasons why I drive a Saturn....I filled the tank from the "Low Fuel" light being on, and it was less than $30.
Quote from: SJFedor on March 10, 2008, 05:17:28 AM
Reasons why I drive a Saturn....I filled the tank from the "Low Fuel" light being on, and it was less than $30.
My truck's 30gal tank takes about $115 to fill from fumes to full...wanna trade?
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on March 10, 2008, 05:50:15 AM
Quote from: SJFedor on March 10, 2008, 05:17:28 AM
Reasons why I drive a Saturn....I filled the tank from the "Low Fuel" light being on, and it was less than $30.
My truck's 30gal tank takes about $115 to fill from fumes to full...wanna trade?
Yikes.....might be time to ask for a raise at the Piggle Wiggly :D
Quote from: mikeylikey on March 10, 2008, 01:50:48 PM
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on March 10, 2008, 05:50:15 AM
Quote from: SJFedor on March 10, 2008, 05:17:28 AM
Reasons why I drive a Saturn....I filled the tank from the "Low Fuel" light being on, and it was less than $30.
My truck's 30gal tank takes about $115 to fill from fumes to full...wanna trade?
Yikes.....might be time to ask for a raise at the Piggle Wiggly :D
It'd be a gutsy move, I was in some trouble a while back. Alas, a story for another thread.
[/MEGA-END TOPIC DRIFT]
After all that, I never checked my alarm clock and missed my first class today :(. It's supposed to be supper duper advanced and set it's self automatically, but then again I bought it before the whole moving DST up. ::) The GPS in my truck didn't update either, and when I checked my hand held the time was wrong too. Good to see that when congress moved DST up they coordinated with all the agencies effected.
Quote from: jayburns22 on March 09, 2008, 07:17:33 PM
I fail to understand why Congress would pass a measure to extend DST if there wasn't some sort of advantage to it. Do you?
If you are a student of history you will observe that the US Congress (which has partial control over the laws of man) routinely gets into a stupor where they convince themselves that they also have the power to change the laws of nature with the stroke of a pen. DST is perhaps one of the best examples of that idiocy.
I understand the concept of using less energy because people don't have to turn on the lights as early, but isn't that countered by the extra energy people use to turn on the lights in the morning. After all, this doesn't actually change the amount of daylight we get.
I have never understood the farmer angle either. I grew up in the country and if you needed daylight to do something, you got up with the sun, NO MATTER WHAT TIME THE CLOCK SAID.