Can the Uniform Policy save the Credibility of the CAP?

[A.Member]

I dunno about you guys, but all I care about is uniforms and Cadet Programs.

Not me...that's secondary to the ribbons and medals (as well as a chest to pin them on).

[MIKE]

I include the bling with uniforms as uniform accouterments.

[A.Member]

I include the bling with uniforms as uniform accouterments.

Bah.  You're right, my mistake...  Dang, there goes that next rating. 

[Civilian_Pilot]

It's all funny.  I like to laugh also.

The thing is I'm not laughing with you.....

It is clear to me what the attitudes are, why the problems are so endemic within CAP.

Like I stated earlier.  You represent the CAP. 

What I and anyone else who comes across this forum think of the CAP is a direct reflection of you.

Any damage to that image is done by you.

[Maj Ballard]

Honest question, CP:

What makes you think search and rescue is, has ever been, or needs to be the core focus of the organization?

[MIKE]

Some posts snipped.  Don't post PMs.  If you've got a problem with a PM report it via Report to Admin.

[Civilian_Pilot]

Honest question, CP:

What makes you think search and rescue is, has ever been, or needs to be the core focus of the organization?

Well I was the one who stated core mission but I really should have stated primary function/expression of the core reason for the CAP.

What I mean by this is that the CAP is an organization to promote aviation; a aviation Boy Scouts.  All the training, programs, ideals and even uniforms come together in the greatest task that CAP functions:  Search and Rescue.

Does that clarify what I misstated?

[Maj Ballard]

Yes, but it is still incorrect. You've got some really strange ideas about the mission, purpose and "greatest task" of CAP.

[Civilian_Pilot]

Yes, but it is still incorrect. You've got some really strange ideas about the mission, purpose and "greatest task" of CAP.

Not really.

[Maj Ballard]

Then show us otherwise, or provide factual evidence that your impression is correct.

What you've stated thus far as the nature, mission, task, purpose, etc. of CAP is factually incorrect.

[Civilian_Pilot]

Then show us otherwise, or provide factual evidence that your impression is correct.

What you've stated thus far as the nature, mission, task, purpose, etc. of CAP is factually incorrect.

That was easy:

Civil Air Patrol
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Civil Air Patrol Corporate sealThe Civil Air Patrol (CAP) is the civilian auxiliary of the United States Air Force (USAF). While the CAP is sponsored by the Air Force, it is not an operating reserve component under the Air Force or the federal government. Since CAP is not part of any uniformed service branch and its members are civilians, it is not subject to the laws governed by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. CAP is a non-profit volunteer organization with an aviation-minded membership that includes people from all backgrounds, lifestyles, and occupations. It performs three congressionally assigned key missions: emergency services, which includes search and rescue (by air and ground) and disaster recovery operations; aerospace education for youth and the general public; and cadet programs for teenage youth. In addition, CAP has recently been tasked with homeland security and courier service missions. CAP also performs non-auxiliary missions for various governmental and private agencies, such as local law enforcement and the American Red Cross. The program is established as an organization by Title 10 of the United States Code and its purposes defined by Title 36.

Membership in the organization consists of cadets ranging from 12 to 21 years of age, and senior members 18 years of age and up. These two groups each have the opportunity to participate in a wide variety of pursuits; the Cadet program contributes to the development of the former of these two groups with a structured syllabus and an organization based upon United States Air Force ranks and pay grades, while the older members serve as instructors and supervisors. All members wear uniforms while performing their duties.

Nationwide, CAP is a major operator of single-engine general aviation aircraft, used in the execution of its various missions, including orientation flights for cadets and the provision of significant emergency services capabilities. Because of these extensive flying opportunities, many CAP members become licensed pilots.

The hierarchical and quasi-military organization is headed by the National Headquarters (with authority over the national organization) followed by eight regional commands and 52 state wings (plus Washington, D.C. and Puerto Rico). Each wing supervises the individual squadrons that comprise the basic operational unit of the organization.

[Smithsonia]

Civilian Pilot makes cogent and for the most part, well written points. While I disagree with his conclusions, that we aren't emphasizing Search and Rescue enough. I THINK WE ARE EMPHASIZING SAR. However, I think we've traded some of our "Get it done" Spirit... for "get it done in the right uniform." Boldness and resourcefulness, enterprise and intrepidity, have taken a backseat to correctness. To suggest that it hasn't... is to miss a good point. We're talking balance in a large and sometimes unwieldy organization. If the public thinks we are too doctrinaire about our uniforms, let's discuss the point as gentlemen.

I think if you can dish it out... you should be able to take too. As you know, I've been in many polite conversations with all of the regular members of this board and asked more than once that each point about craft in PA, or Search and Rescue follow-up stories, or heralded past glories, not be reduced to a conversation about CAPR 39-1. SO, let's take Civilian Pilot at his word and answer in a professional manner his complaints. It's good practice at defending CAP to the "Civilian Pilot" world. DO NOT LOCK unless this thread becomes abusive or juvenile. On we go BOLDLY.

[lordmonar]

Civilian_Pilot......What's it to you?  Who are you?  Why do you care about CAP at all?  If you really have a problem with how the three missions of CAP are carried out....you can always join and take a swing at fixing them.

And for the record....my name is Patrick Harris....Capt Harris....MSgt Harris....Sgt Harris.....Pat.....even Lord Monar.....Commander Patrick is an unacceptable way to address me.

As for your challenge........let me tell you about what I and most of the people I know in CAP do on a day to day basis.  We train for ES missions, we work with the cadet program and we work with the Aerospace Education Program.  

In our ample spare time....we get on line and grouse about uniforms....stupid HQ Tricks.....stupid Cadet Tricks.....Monster Trucks.....Who is better Pirates or Ninjas and thousand other topics of no real import.

Those who want to make a difference are out there doing it every day.....and if you man enough....I invite you to step up to the plate and put your actions where your posts are.

Feel free to discuss...

[FW]

C.P.,  it seems your remarks are not hitting the target.  You imply in your comments, on some of the recent events we've experienced, are the result of a good core surrounded by rotten fruit.  I disagree.  We find the rot.  We excise it.  We heal and we go on.  We even post it on CAP-TALK.  I find that to be, not only healthy, but refreshing.  

We're not afraid to air some of our dirty laundry in public.  After all, we spend about $30 million in taxpayers' money every year to perform all our missions.  And over 55,000 members give over $2 million in yearly dues and donate thousands more for the privilege of serving.

I'm sorry if our public discussions on this gives you a less than a stellar opinion of our little band of brothers.  But, I'll keep paying my dues and continue to keep current and stay ready to help in case of need.  Yep, just me and my thousands of comrads.

Oh, and thank you for your comments.    

[Civilian_Pilot]

Thank you Ed, and I mean that.

I have not intended for this to be anything more than a discussion.

As I stated before:  If you have nothing constructive to say please find another topic to play in.

I would like nothing more than to have a serious discussion.  We may not agree on all the points but hopefully we can use it to direct some attention to an area that needs it.

[A.Member]

Then show us otherwise, or provide factual evidence that your impression is correct.

What you've stated thus far as the nature, mission, task, purpose, etc. of CAP is factually incorrect.

That was easy:

Civil Air Patrol
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Civil Air Patrol Corporate sealThe Civil Air Patrol (CAP) is the civilian auxiliary of the United States Air Force (USAF). While the CAP is sponsored by the Air Force, it is not an operating reserve component under the Air Force or the federal government. Since CAP is not part of any uniformed service branch and its members are civilians, it is not subject to the laws governed by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. CAP is a non-profit volunteer organization with an aviation-minded membership that includes people from all backgrounds, lifestyles, and occupations. It performs three congressionally assigned key missions: emergency services, which includes search and rescue (by air and ground) and disaster recovery operations; aerospace education for youth and the general public; and cadet programs for teenage youth. In addition, CAP has recently been tasked with homeland security and courier service missions. CAP also performs non-auxiliary missions for various governmental and private agencies, such as local law enforcement and the American Red Cross. The program is established as an organization by Title 10 of the United States Code and its purposes defined by Title 36.

Membership in the organization consists of cadets ranging from 12 to 21 years of age, and senior members 18 years of age and up. These two groups each have the opportunity to participate in a wide variety of pursuits; the Cadet program contributes to the development of the former of these two groups with a structured syllabus and an organization based upon United States Air Force ranks and pay grades, while the older members serve as instructors and supervisors. All members wear uniforms while performing their duties.

Nationwide, CAP is a major operator of single-engine general aviation aircraft, used in the execution of its various missions, including orientation flights for cadets and the provision of significant emergency services capabilities. Because of these extensive flying opportunities, many CAP members become licensed pilots.

The hierarchical and quasi-military organization is headed by the National Headquarters (with authority over the national organization) followed by eight regional commands and 52 state wings (plus Washington, D.C. and Puerto Rico). Each wing supervises the individual squadrons that comprise the basic operational unit of the organization.

If it's so easy, then why do you continually fail to state what our mission is?  You were even able to bold it from the Wiki page you copied. 

[A.Member]

Thank you Ed, and I mean that.

I have not intended for this to be anything more than a discussion.

As I stated before:  If you have nothing constructive to say please find another topic to play in.

I would like nothing more than to have a serious discussion.  We may not agree on all the points but hopefully we can use it to direct some attention to an area that needs it.

It's a two way street. 

If you come here to discuss, be prepared to learn as well.  You've been corrected as to the mission of CAP several times, yet continue to hold your incorrect view of our mission as the truth.  Until you get over that, no meaningful discussion can occur.

[Civilian_Pilot]

C.P.,  it seems your remarks are not hitting the target.  

Oh, and thank you for your comments.    

Actually I am hitting target or everyone wouldn't be wound up like a hornet nest.

[A.Member]

C.P.,  it seems your remarks are not hitting the target.  

Oh, and thank you for your comments.    

Actually I am hitting target or everyone wouldn't be wound up like a hornet nest.

I would take it more as a recognition of your ignorance and willingness to provide you assistance from that perspective, so long as you're open to receiving it (thus far you are not). 

Several people have told you in several different ways that you are incorrect in your assumptions and even cited reasons as to why, yet you continue forward with your strawman argument. 

Interesting view of yourself...is that the image you want to leave here?

[Civilian_Pilot]

Civilian_Pilot......What's it to you?  Who are you?  Why do you care about CAP at all?  If you really have a problem with how the three missions of CAP are carried out....you can always join and take a swing at fixing them.

And for the record....my name is Patrick Harris....Capt Harris....MSgt Harris....Sgt Harris.....Pat.....even Lord Monar.....Commander Patrick is an unacceptable way to address me.

As for your challenge........let me tell you about what I and most of the people I know in CAP do on a day to day basis.  We train for ES missions, we work with the cadet program and we work with the Aerospace Education Program.  

In our ample spare time....we get on line and grouse about uniforms....stupid HQ Tricks.....stupid Cadet Tricks.....Monster Trucks.....Who is better Pirates or Ninjas and thousand other topics of no real import.

Those who want to make a difference are out there doing it every day.....and if you man enough....I invite you to step up to the plate and put your actions where your posts are.

Feel free to discuss...

I've stated it here before, but here it is again:

Nothing but a Civilian Pilot with the following.

--B.S. Aerospace Engineering

--MEL Airline Transport Pilot

--SEL Commercial/Instrument

--F/E Turbojet

--Type Ratings:  SA-227 B-737 B-727 MD-11

--CFI CFII MEI

I have operated in most countries of the world so I know a little more about emergency , intercept, international operations than the average person or even pilot.

Enjoy.