Vanguard CAP Sword (pictures)

Started by JC004, August 29, 2007, 06:09:31 PM

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winterg

#120
August 31, 2007, 07:24:10 PM
The USAF has three distinct swords, that I know of.  The Academy sword, the standard AD sword and there is, I believe, a distinct sword for members of the AF band.

Here is the manufacturer: http://www.militarysabers.com/air-force-sword-hi.html

While on AD I saw swords in mess dress on several occasions.  Always thought it looked smart.  Instead of the argument that the AF and CAP have never used swords as part of our history, I think there is another way to look at it.

The sword today is ceremonial and symbolic.  Yes, the sword can denote warfighting ability.  But it can also be used for defense.  Since our inception, the CAP has fought to protect our fellow citizens.  We fight the weather, time, natural disasters and even our own administration at times!

The point is, maybe we as CAP should look at this as an opportunity.  An opportunity to change our image from just a bunch a wannabes to an actual effective component of the USAF.  Sure we don't do CSAR, but the SAR we do does, IMHO, qualify us as protectors and if folks want to shell out $300 and wear a sword with mess dress, let em.

Me? I want a new DF unit!  Can I wear that with mess dress?

flyerthom

#121
September 01, 2007, 12:52:16 AM
Quote from: LtCol White on August 29, 2007, 09:44:29 PM
Quote from: MIKE on August 29, 2007, 09:07:07 PM
Quote from: sandman on August 29, 2007, 09:00:22 PM
I like the idea of having this sword. Although a bit out of most individuals budgets especially individual squadrons, I could see a wing procuring several of these gems for an honor guard program.

Strictly verboten by CAPP 52-8.

But if the people wearing swords are the only ones with them....how will someone take them away?!  >:D


With the M-14's from the other thread...
TC

MIKE

#122
September 01, 2007, 12:58:14 AM
I always bring a gun to a knife fight. [Insert Indiana Jones clip here.]  :)
Mike Johnston

SAR-EMT1

#123
September 01, 2007, 04:16:13 AM
The band members do have a PointyThing TM I saw it once during a concert in DC.  It was more a dagger then a sword, VERY short
C. A. Edgar
AUX USCG Flotilla 8-8
Former CC / GLR-IL-328
Firefighter, Paramedic, Grad Student

Major Carrales

#124
September 01, 2007, 04:26:31 AM
Two things that buyers of HIGH PRICED regalia should ask themselves is...

"How many CAP capable radios might this buy?"  and/or "What percent of a CAP radio would this buy?"

The most expensive CAP item I have ever bought was a Service coat...the next big purchase will be to donate a SQUADRON FLAG to our unit.

"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454

JohnKachenmeister

#125
July 02, 2008, 02:02:03 PM
Quote from: LtCol White on August 29, 2007, 06:26:23 PM
So they sell them but they arent on the website?? And what was the price of this little gem?

Gee... stuff that Vanguard has that's not on their website?  I've NEVER heard of THAT before!  ;D
Another former CAP officer

JohnKachenmeister

#126
July 02, 2008, 02:06:53 PM
Quote from: JC004 on August 29, 2007, 08:05:17 PM
Intel report: Vanguard CAP supervisor tells me that it will be added to the site.  They have a number of things that are going to be added, and they are working on adjusting all the mistakes in item identification and such.

Their site has been under construction longer than a Florida state highway.
Another former CAP officer

Smithsonia

#127
July 02, 2008, 05:48:42 PM
There's nothing goofier looking than an old guy with a sword. I'm an old guy. I don't want a sword. Please don't make it a 39-1 item... please. If you thought Mike Dukakis looked dumb in a tank... give me a sword and I'll show you dumb.

With regards; ED OBRIEN
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

Short Field

#128
July 02, 2008, 07:45:47 PM
Quote from: winterg on August 31, 2007, 07:24:10 PM
The point is, maybe we as CAP should look at this as an opportunity.  An opportunity to change our image from just a bunch a wannabes to an actual effective component of the USAF.  Sure we don't do CSAR, but the SAR we do does, IMHO, qualify us as protectors and if folks want to shell out $300 and wear a sword with mess dress, let em.

You could never consider wearing a USAF as part of being a wannabe.  Considering that the only swords I ever saw at a USAF function were worn by the Honor Guard or used by the Senior Officer and Junior Enlisted to cut the Birthday cake, the USAF really doesn't use them. 
SAR/DR MP, ARCHOP, AOBD, GTM1, GBD, LSC, FASC, LO, PIO, MSO(T), & IC2
Wilson #2640

Johnny Yuma

#129
July 10, 2008, 04:15:18 AM
Hey, I just had a thought...

MAybe we can resolve the old "Ninjas vs. Pirates" debate with these things.

Take away all their Ninja and Pirate gear, give them blunt-yet-pointy CAP sabres and let them duel to the death!

Yes, yes, I've found a use for them!
"And Saint Attila raised the Holy Hand Grenade up on high saying, "Oh Lord, Bless us this Holy Hand Grenade, and with it smash our enemies to tiny bits. And the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the lambs, and stoats, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and lima bean-"

" Skip a bit, brother."

"And then the Lord spake, saying: "First, shalt thou take out the holy pin. Then shalt thou count to three. No more, no less. "Three" shall be the number of the counting, and the number of the counting shall be three. "Four" shalt thou not count, and neither count thou two, execpting that thou then goest on to three. Five is RIGHT OUT. Once the number three, being the third number be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade to-wards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuffit. Amen."

Armaments Chapter One, verses nine through twenty-seven:

BuckeyeDEJ

#130
July 10, 2008, 06:26:43 PM
It's just a big knife that has almost no relevance to a flying organization, be it CAP or the Air Force.

It's even more silly that they'd offer an officer sword for a NONCOMBAT organization. We're not at the tip of the spear. We're closer to the other end of the shaft, if not the box in which the darn thing came out of.

It's a nice keepsake, I guess. But the first time I saw someone try wearing it with a uniform, I'd instantly think that person was a dork. A machete is more practical in CAP, dontcha think?


CAP since 1984: Lt Col; former C/Lt Col; MO, MRO, MS, IO; former sq CC/CD/PA; group, wing, region PA, natl cmte mbr, nat'l staff member.
REAL LIFE: Working journalist in SPG, DTW (News), SRQ, PIT (Trib), 2D1, WVI, W22; editor, desk chief, designer, photog, columnist, reporter, graphics guy, visual editor, but not all at once. Now a communications manager for an international multisport venue.

Flying Pig

#131
July 10, 2008, 07:07:49 PM
I have always been one for the historical significance behind uniform items.  CAP and the Air Force have NO historical reference to carrying swords or sabres.  I know the AF has them, but at least the go into battle.

The Army, Navy and Marines used them in battle.  I don't think the AF was ever issued the sword as an actual weapon, not to mention CAP.

It screams WANNA-BE.  I would just have to laugh and shake my head.

Pylon

#132
July 10, 2008, 07:09:02 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on July 10, 2008, 07:07:49 PM
I have always been one for the historical significance behind uniform items.  CAP and the Air Force have NO historical reference to carrying swords or sabres.

The Army, Navy and Marines used them in battle.  I don't think the AF was ever issued the sword as an actual weapon, not to mention CAP.

It screams WANNA-BE.  I would just have to laugh and shake my head.

Yes, for ceremonial purposes, the Air Force really ought to be using highly polished pitot tubes.  ;)
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

Smithsonia

#133
July 10, 2008, 07:22:10 PM
Might I suggest the Orange Shroud Knife is not only appropriate to the Air Force but for ceremonial purposes a 3 or 4 foot over-sized version of this folding knife sticking out of your pants would look equally goofy to the sword.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

Dad2-4

#134
July 10, 2008, 07:41:27 PM
Here's one that CAP might authorize, and the price is right!
http://www.militarysabers.com/letter-openers/air-force-mini.html

Nathan

#135
July 10, 2008, 09:58:34 PM
We have ceremonial rifles... I don't understand what the big deal is about having a ceremonial sword.

Besides the fact that it just looks silly.
Nathan Scalia

The post beneath this one is a lie.

Smithsonia

#136
July 10, 2008, 10:41:49 PM
If you'd like to see goofy. On the web there is a picture of a bunch of American soldiers marching between Sadam's crossed hands and swords in Baghdad's Green Zone... carrying M4s hiked up to their shoulders. It looks like big soldier's marching with toy guns. I can't find it at the moment but it is on the web. It is not the best looking parade I've ever seen although I mean no disrespect to those marching. However it occurred, I doubt it was well considered and once they looked at it, I don't think they did it again.

With regards; ED OBRIEN
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

Flying Pig

#137
July 10, 2008, 11:21:47 PM
Quote from: Nathan on July 10, 2008, 09:58:34 PM
We have ceremonial rifles... I don't understand what the big deal is about having a ceremonial sword.

Besides the fact that it just looks silly.

I knew this one was coming.........

CAP doesn't use rifles either as part of our mission, however, some concessions have to be made in the interest of some military traditions.  The sword is just a whole different case.

Nathan

#138
July 10, 2008, 11:28:03 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on July 10, 2008, 11:21:47 PM
Quote from: Nathan on July 10, 2008, 09:58:34 PM
We have ceremonial rifles... I don't understand what the big deal is about having a ceremonial sword.

Besides the fact that it just looks silly.

I knew this one was coming.........

CAP doesn't use rifles either as part of our mission, however, some concessions have to be made in the interest of some military traditions.  The sword is just a whole different case.

A whole different case? You mean just a whole different tradition?

The sword really is one of the lowest priorities imaginable on my list of thing important I'd like to support in Civil Air Patrol, but banning it just 'cause that's not something we've done before is a little silly. To be honest, I'd say that the swords, especially polished, shiny swords, look MUCH better than some of the beat-up old pieces of driftwood I see some honor guards using... If we want to talk about respecting the flag, then swords really CAN look more professional than a rifle.

Granted, anyone who can afford a couple of $300 swords should be able to afford some nice rifles, but the point is the same.
Nathan Scalia

The post beneath this one is a lie.

mikeylikey

#139
July 10, 2008, 11:59:24 PM
Man.....Swords are just a real bad idea.  I don't know how I would be able to tell little Marc's mother that he was killed when he tripped and fell on his sword.

CAP has a huge issue when a pilot bangs his wing into a hangar.  Can you imagine what would happen the very first time a finger goes missing because someones sword was being waved around.

No one here can honestly say that nothing bad will happen.  Bad things always happen, and are inevitable.

Plus, I am very accident prone.  I don't want to lose and eye or ear.   
What's up monkeys?
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