Senator John McCain claims CAP is Pork Barrel Spending (Again)

[Devil Doc]

HWSRN? Im lost

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

HWSRN? Im lost

He Who Shall Remain Nameless...an informal(?) protocol on this board for referring to the former National CC who caused a lot of trouble for CAP.

Personally, I think it's a bit silly, especially given that most know who is being referred to.  It's kind of like the name of Sauron not being spoken by many in The Lord Of The Rings books.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Don't know about most....it has been 6 years? Many new members since then.

[SarDragon]

Basically the man who was the main founder was a former CAP National Commander who awarded himself a questionable Medal of Valor and was then deranked and forced to resign.

There were some other shady dealings to go along with those, too. Do a search on here for "He who shall not be named", or "HWSNBN", and after grabbing a snack and beverage, read all the dirt. There's a big, stinky pile of it.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I don't thing its mud, Dave...

[Devil Doc]

Sorry wasnt trying to name names, But yes, i did find some Dirt on this HWSRN. Ive only been a member for almost 8 months now. All I wanna know, is what it with all this God Complex with these former Leaders?

[Johnny Yuma]

Sorry wasnt trying to name names, But yes, i did find some Dirt on this HWSRN. Ive only been a member for almost 8 months now. All I wanna know, is what it with all this God Complex with these former Leaders?

The smelliest turds tend to float to the top of the bowl.

[Johnny Yuma]

First, don't flame the AZWG members on here. Mc(turd)Stain, IMHO, has worn out his veteran and POW status and is little more than your typical wormy politician. His own political party at the state level has censured him a number of times yet he keeps doing whatever is politically expedient for him. If his own party leadership cannot keep him in line you can bet there's no one in AZWG who can.

I'd love to know what this clown's beef is with CAP.

[SARDOC]

What I was saying is that all of this starts from the presumption that SAR is needed.  With the new 406 ELTs and especially with the new FAA proposal to ban ELTs that only use 121.5, the need for SAR services of any kind is greatly diminished.  An ELT will either tell the AFRCC Lat/Lon of a downed airplane or nobody will go looking.  Our value as a mission multiplier to the AF goes away if the AF mission changes.  The choice is not between CAP and the AF doing SAR, it's between CAP, Local LE or nobody doing SAR. 

The 406 isn't the cure all everyone thinks it is.  Yes, it's a great technology that will aid in the search and rescue.  That doesn't mean Search and Rescue are going away.  The 406's aren't fool proof and have been known to broadcast incorrect locations at times (not all the time, but just on occasion) and that it's one of the less than 35% that actually survive impact.

[PHall]

I'd love to know what this clown's beef is with CAP.

We didn't rescue him when he was shot down in North Vietnam!

[Devil Doc]

A Person shot Down in North Vietnam, Hes mad because CAP did come come rescue him? Hes lucky he made it out alive. There is actualy some controversy how he made it out alive 

[NC Hokie]

CP?  Alright, this may be apples and oranges, but what is there in our Cadet side of things that is not done by AFJROTC, which is directly-supervised, and, I would argue, better respected, by the Air Force?

In theory, CAP has a longer reach than AFJROTC as we can spin up a unit ANYWHERE with very minimal funding. We also reach a larger audience with the inclusion of middle school and homeschool cadets.

AE?  This hits me personally as I am heavily involved in AE.  With the advent of the Internet, what can we teach young people, or educators, that isn't available at the click of a mouse?

We can give them what the internet cannot...opportunities to EXPERIENCE AE in a hands-on way.

[PHall]

A Person shot Down in North Vietnam, Hes mad because CAP did come come rescue him? Hes lucky he made it out alive. There is actualy some controversy how he made it out alive 

Guess the satire went right over your head. What do you think the  is for...

Navy guys, can't live with them, can't keelhaul 'em.

[♠SARKID♠]

Sent over our Wing-Info

ALCON,

The following was taken from the Senates website Tuesday evening after they adjourned for the day:

    The Senate stands in adjournment until 9:30am on Wednesday, March 20, 2013.
    Following any Leader remarks, the Senate will resume consideration of H.R.933, the continuing appropriations bill with the time until 11:15am equally divided and controlled between the two Leaders or their designees.
    At 11:15am, there will be 3 roll call votes in relation to the following:
        Toomey amendment #115 (CONUS)
        Adoption of the Mikulski-Shelby amendment #26, as modified (substitute) and
        Motion to invoke cloture on H.R.933, as amended, if amended.
    If cloture is invoked on H.R.933, the thirty hours post-cloture will run as if cloture was invoked at 1:00am on Wednesday, March 20th.

Now if you are like me, half of this is foreign as to what it means.  (Who said we don't get an education in CAP in how our legislative branch works.)  I did the next best thing and contacted Col John Swain, CAP's government relations consultant, and asked him what this means in simple terms. Does the Senate vote on this bill as a whole or do they vote on each amendment if the cloture is invoked?  Here is how he explained it to me:

"If the amendments are not brought up for discussion I don't believe that they will be included as a whole—they need to vote on amendments separately.  This means that each Senator under cloture has up to one hour to speak on their amendment."


There are approximately 125 amendments and if you do the math there is no way that each amendment be will discussed for one hour each.  Some may not be discussed at all.  We can all hope that Sen. McCain withdraws his amendment, but we cannot predict that. We also have no idea in which order the amendments would be voted on either.

I trust these daily updates help you understand where we are at in this process.  As I am sure you have already noticed, the process is constantly changing.

If you have not contacted your Senator, please do so ASAP.  If you have already done so, thank you.  Please do not contact them again, but encourage others to do so. I am monitoring the Senate floor when I can and as soon as we get the official word of the outcome to Amendment 50, we will pass the information along to you.


Thank you for your help in this critical matter.  Your voices are being heard and greatly appreciated.


Next week, we will be discussing the Congressional Gold Medal again.  As an FYI, Congressman Sean Duffy is the only representative from Wisconsin who has co-sponsored H.R. 755 thus far.  Overall we have 109 of the 290 required co-sponsors for Congressional bill H.R. 755 and 19 of the 69 needed co-sponsors for the Senate version – S. 309.

Best regards,

Jeri Gonwa, Capt, CAP
Public Affairs and Historian, GLR-WI-001

[J2H]

I love the sound of a Pork Barrel, sounds yummy

[Devil Doc]

PorK Barrell.

Round Ham, Laced with Honey Hickory Bacon, filled with Brats, Sausage, and Cheese. MMMMM Doughnuts.

[JoeTomasone]

With the new 406 ELTs and especially with the new FAA proposal to ban ELTs that only use 121.5, the need for SAR services of any kind is greatly diminished.  An ELT will either tell the AFRCC Lat/Lon of a downed airplane or nobody will go looking. 

Sorry, but this isn't close to reality. 

First, the adoption of 406 ELTs amongst GA aircraft is still low.  Even with the FCC (not the FAA) looking to ban 121.5-only ELTs, expect AOPA to lobby hard against it due to cost to owners. 

Second, not all 406 ELTs have GPS (extra cost, you see - and I can tell you that I've had maybe ONE out of dozens of 406 beacons I've found to have a GPS).  Therefore, they still have an average 3 sq. mi. error when Doppler-estimated by satellite.   Once you get 2-3 merges or so, you still have a large area to search.

Third, 406 ELTs are not currently REQUIRED to be registered as 406 EPIRBS are, and many aren't, which means that a search is still required since the owner cannot be contacted.    FLWG, by my count, has had 7 searches for 406 beacons so far this year.   That's a little less than one per week.

Fourth, even the registered beacons (including ELTs, EPIRBs, and PLBs here) are not always RE-registered when purchased by a new owner.   Those, again, require a search.


The whole notion of having a GPS-provided LAT/LONG from a registered 406 beacon each and every time is pure fantasy right now, and will be for quite some time to come.   Meanwhile, FLWG has had five 121.5-only missions this month alone.   AFRCC has had over 100 missions for CAP this year already.   We are still needed.

[MajorM]

Somebody always pays in the end.  Transfer the costs to the counties and they will pay.  If they start billing the crash victims/actors then their insurance will pay.  Those who operate equipment that can lead to such events will inevitably have higher premiums.  How much higher? Who knows.  Enough to push some number out of flying?  Maybe.  There are then downwind economic impacts of that.

That isn't an argument saying flying generates that much economic impact; it's simply an example.

The argument isn't necessarily that CAP shouldn't be cut, it's why start with CAP?  I work in the non-profit world operating a host of grant funded programs.  Some are great and critical, some I wonder why they exist.  But they exist because they have a constituency somewhere.  Google "mohair subsidy" or "International Fund for Ireland" and you can see an example of the challenge in curtailing the budget.  Those are but two examples of programs that could be eliminated and save more money than CAP's proposed cut.

This is a hit job pure and simple.  Somewhere along the line someone in CAP ticked off the senator and we became a target.  It's also why McCain can't get traction with his fellow senators.

  Don't think personal vendettas effect politics?  Think again.

[sardak]

I've been trying to avoid this sub-thread to prevent hi-jacking, but:

First, the adoption of 406 ELTs amongst GA aircraft is still low.

As of the end of January 2013, there were 65,899 registered 406 ELTs in the US. NOAA estimates there are close to 250,000 121.5 ELTs still in use.

Second, not all 406 ELTs have GPS...

True, nor do all 406 PLBs or EPIRBs. Sarsat registration and manufacturer stats show only 41% of ELTs, 26% of EPRIBs and 98% of PLBs are GPS capable (i.e. location protocol beacons).

Third, 406 ELTs are not currently REQUIRED to be registered...

Not true. 47CFR87.199
(e) ''WARNING '' Failure to register this ELT with NOAA before installation could result in a monetary forfeiture being issued to the owner.'
(f)To enhance protection of life and property, it is mandatory that each 406.0–406.1 MHz ELT must be registered with NOAA before installation...
This is the same wording used for EPIRBs and PLBs.

The US Sarsat program has endorsed elimination of the 121.5 homing signal on the next generation of 406 beacons, scheduled to begin hitting the market in 2016.

Mike

[bflynn]

The 406 isn't the cure all everyone thinks it is.  Yes, it's a great technology that will aid in the search and rescue.  That doesn't mean Search and Rescue are going away.  The 406's aren't fool proof and have been known to broadcast incorrect locations at times (not all the time, but just on occasion) and that it's one of the less than 35% that actually survive impact.

Of course it doesn't.  Sometimes you won't get a 406 signal.  But when you do, you know the lat/lon.  Isn't it better to dispatch a EMT team to a known location that can treat and transport survivors than someone who's going to fly over in an airplane and say "yup, that's where they are"?

We've already seen the demand for SAR services go down, but not all airplane owners have replaced their 121.5 ELTs...a lot of people have the attitude "if it goes off, come find me and write me a ticket for it".  But now the FAA is taking the step to sunset 121.5 ELTs for good and every airplane that goes down will either send a 406 signal or it will be unknown because no signal was sent and it will take hours or even days before any search is even started.

That pretty much says that the AF will not be in the business of doing SAR in the future, so why would they pay CAP to do it?  All we really do for them is as a kind of auxillary junior AFROTC program, which compared to fuel for airplanes and weapons to drop on America's enemies, is clearly of a lesser importance.

My main point - there has been a stragetic shift in the landscape from even just 5 years ago.  That shift has changed CAP's relationship with the AF.  Because of that change, we should expect that the funding aspects will change.