HQ National Warning Letter to Senior Member "Wanna Bees" Trolling for Salutes

Started by RADIOMAN015, February 15, 2011, 03:00:42 AM

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RADIOMAN015

Apparently a National Commander (and Senior NCO advisor) letter dated 2/14/11 has been sent to all Region & Wing Commanders regarding the conduct of a few "misguided" senior members running around demanding to be saluted by AF and other Military personnel.

There was a comment posted on the AF Magazine on line forum in January regarding a CAP senior member Major being disrespectful to a AF active duty enlisted person and demanding a salute.

Hmm, it's unfortunate these "wanna bees" (and as a Major the individual has been a wanna for a long time) continue to crop up whether it's on AF bases or out in the civilian community getting "discounted meals" or praise NOT deserved and not correcting the general public.    Lets hope there's not too many more of these incidents, with even one being too many. >:( :( :-[

I'd assume that both region & wing commanders will have the opportunity to add their comments to the letter. 
RM


   

NCRblues

In god we trust, all others we run through NCIC

MICT1362

I would love to see this. I'm sure that if it truly made it to all Wing CC's then I will hear about it on Satruday.

-Paramedic

Eclipse

Easy fix - 2b the offenders and move on.  There is no need for further reenforcement of regulations we are all aware of, especially field grade CAP officers.

This is an anomaly, not the norm.

"That Others May Zoom"

Persona non grata

If this story is true, then NHQ is over re-acting........like said above, 2 B and move on.
Rock, Flag & Eagle.........

RADIOMAN015

Quote from: NCRblues on February 15, 2011, 03:02:12 AM
Where is this letter, and how did you see it?

Members subscribed to the CAPCOM list server were provided a copy by the National CAP Communications Team Leader, who stated that the National Commander wanted the widest distribution.   Terrible letter to have to write, due to a very foolish action by a senior member.   
RM 



A.Member

Quote from: NCRblues on February 15, 2011, 03:02:12 AM
Where is this letter, and how did you see it?
Received today from our Wing CC.

Reprint of letter:
Quote from: Letter From National CC14 February 2011
Wing and Region Commanders

We've all heard the stories concerning Civil Air Patrol (CAP) officers on military installations "demanding" that they receive the rendering of a military salute from junior ranking officers and enlisted military members. We make jokes concerning the intelligence or – lack of intelligence – of the offending member and we express how this type of behavior is an embarrassment to all – both CAP members and military members. We would like to believe that this is a rare occurrence. So why is there anecdotal evidence that these "encounters" continue? Are these occurrences caused by a lack of knowledge or are they deliberate acts designed to assuage personal "issues/motivations" of the offending member?

A recent occurrence is discussed in the 17 January 2011 issue of Air Force magazine Online Forums section - between an enlisted military member and a CAP senior member officer. To paraphrase the CAP officer said, "Do you see this oak leaf? I am a major with the Air Force Auxiliary. You need to salute me..." The Military member did not render a salute. Our concern is not the response of the military member, however. He was aware of CAP's relationship to the Air Force and declined to render the salute – which is a courtesy and is not a regulatory requirement. In accordance with Air Force Instruction 10-2701 Organization and Function of the Civil Air Patrol, "CAP uses a military style grade structure for both its Senior Members and Cadet Members. CAP grades for both cadet and senior members have no military standing, carry no authority over members of the Armed Forces, nor warrant the customs and courtesies afforded military members." This should be common knowledge to all CAP members. However, as members of the Civil Air Patrol, we are deeply concerned about the behavior of one of our officers.

CAP is a federally chartered non-profit organization of civilian volunteers. Yes, we are the Air Force's Auxiliary but as civilian volunteers we are not members of the military. CAP Regulation 35-10, Ethics Policy states – "Our nation expects and deserves a high standard of professional conduct. The American public entrusts CAP with their safety and welfare and with the character development of their children. Our official core values are: Integrity, Volunteerism, Excellence and Respect. These values represent a cultural commitment within CAP to practice basic honesty, to give of one's self for the betterment of humanity, to deliver top quality services, and to treat others fairly."

CAP promotes teamwork and high standards of personal conduct by granting cadets and senior members the privilege of wearing an Air Force-style uniform. It bears repeating – the privilege. The uniform and the related traditions of rendering military customs and courtesies distinguish our cadets from ordinary youth and identify our members with the United States Air Force. Our cadets are taught not only the proper wear of the uniform but also the proper rendering of the salute to our members, and as a courtesy, to military members in uniform. Have we "dropped" the ball with our senior members?

OFFICE OF THE NATIONAL COMMANDER
CIVIL AIR PATROL
UNITED STATES AIR FORCE AUXILIARY
MAXWELL AIR FORCE BASE, ALABAMA 36112-6332

This brings us back to the actions of the CAP major who requested a salute from a military member. The rank of major implies that this individual is not "new" to the CAP program. Yes, you can receive a special or professional appointment to the grade of CAP major based on experience or unique skills, but normally when you see an individual in CAP wearing oak leaf clusters that implies this person has been "around" a while and should be very familiar with the CAP rank structure and the military rank structure. So was the "request" for a salute by the CAP member from a military member an honest mistake based on a lack of knowledge or a deliberate act of a personal nature? Only the individual involved can provide the answer to this question.

We can't know the heart of the individual involved in this particular situation, nor can we totally control and insure individual compliance with governing directives that address professional and ethical behavior of our members and the customs and courtesies of the military hand salute. However, we can insure that this mistake is not repeated because of a lack of knowledge. CAP members must behave honestly and ethically at all times and with all people. "Individuals will not take unfair advantage of anyone through manipulation, intimidation, concealment, abuse of privileged information, misrepresentation of material facts or any other unfair practice." (CAP's Ethical Standards).

This article is not intended to be overly critical or harsh but to convey very clearly that the behavior of this senior member is not acceptable. The challenge is for all of us, cadets and senior members, to continue to exhibit the highest standards of professional and personal conduct at all times. CAP has a distinguished history of excellence. By nature, the public has a short memory. We cannot allow our hard-earned professional image to be tainted by the conduct of a few members behaving badly. Incorrect behavior must be addressed at all times by every member – with proper respect. We are the Civil Air Patrol! Let's conduct ourselves accordingly!

Sincerely
AMY S. COURTER                                LOU E. WALPUS
Major General, CAP                            Chief Master Sergeant, CAP
National Commander                         Command Chief[
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

NCRblues

In god we trust, all others we run through NCIC

MICT1362

I would hope that they post it to the members page or in e-services tomorrow or wednesday.

-Paramedic

A.Member

Quote from: NCRblues on February 15, 2011, 03:26:50 AM
Can you put a link to it then, if they want wide distribution...
Region CC's directions were to pass along to all members.  When link is available, reprint can be removed.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

cap235629

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on February 15, 2011, 03:23:56 AM
Quote from: NCRblues on February 15, 2011, 03:02:12 AM
Where is this letter, and how did you see it?

Members subscribed to the CAPCOM list server were provided a copy by the National CAP Communications Team Leader, who stated that the National Commander wanted the widest distribution.   Terrible letter to have to write, due to a very foolish action by a senior member.   
RM

I am on the list and just checked my email. Nothing there.
Bill Hobbs, Major, CAP
Arkansas Certified Emergency Manager
Tabhair 'om póg, is Éireannach mé

Major Lord

Wait, wait, wait.....They wrote this letter based on a post in an online forum with none of the actual involved parties identified and without attribution? BS meter pegging.....I would say the chances of this being a complete fabrication are very high. Possibly a disgruntled former CAP person planting a little creative disinformation. We have seen that before, haven't we?

Major Lord
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

A.Member

Quote from: Major Lord on February 15, 2011, 03:37:29 AM
Wait, wait, wait.....They wrote this letter based on a post in an online forum with none of the actual involved parties identified and without attribution? BS meter pegging.....I would say the chances of this being a complete fabrication are very high. Possibly a disgruntled former CAP person planting a little creative disinformation. We have seen that before, haven't we?

Major Lord
Could it be a fabricated story?  Sure.  However, do you really find it implausible?   Sadly, I don't.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

Major Carrales

This letter went out today from the Texas Wing Commander...it is real.  Be the story real or not, the issue is still a problem needing addressing.

In my experience, when we are saluted in our area we are humbled and even a little embarrassed (as in the sense that it was unexpected and that we feel that the salute, a gesture of extreme respect, is something worth humbling one's self to).  My advice has been to return the salute sharply (a return of respect) and thank them for their service to our nation.  There is able a CAP "teachable" moment there where the CAP can be properly represented.

Trolling for salutes is a horrid practice. 
"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454

NCRblues

"Have we "dropped" the ball with our senior members?"

Kind of off, coming for the national commander.... but i will believe it...for now


EDIT: i meant to say ODD...not off...so...ya, sorry about that.
In god we trust, all others we run through NCIC

Major Carrales

Quote from: NCRblues on February 15, 2011, 03:45:23 AM
"Have we “dropped” the ball with our senior members?"

Kind of off, coming for the national commander.... but i will believe it...for now

There is some truth to that.  If we are funneling people through Level I and allowing a disrespectful practice like that to continue...then we have been lacking.

How many of our units merely pass new members though the system as a "passing annoyance?"  Or sort of blow off Level I as some sort of minor activity?
"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454

Major Lord

Sparky,

Yes, I understand the Letter from Gen Courter is real. It certainly makes a difference if the response to the letter is an answer to false allegations.

"We have all heard the stories of CAP Commanders molesting Cadets" Followed by an anonymous post on an online forum stating that " I saw a CAP member molest a CAP cadet" and then responded to by National with a policy letter prohibiting molestation of Cadets? Too much. The very fact that its possible to believe based on years of anecdotes suggests that it would be an excellent chance to post artful disinformation. How many CAP members do you have direct and personal knowledge of that have done such a thing? You of course filed an IG complaint, right? This has all the hallmarks of classic institutional over-reaction.

Major Lord
Salute me or die enlisted scum!
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

a2capt

Sigh..

So, now- what? Does CAP also mean "Complete Another Policy" as a reaction to something someone read, if thats the case, hang on to your hard drives, folks. They're not gonna know what hit 'em. We'll have to confer with a search engine just to get a CAP related answer on anything.

The Nanny State is Here.

Persona non grata

BS METER IS RUNNING HIGH RIGHT NOW!!!!!  On line forum , give me a break.  I like facts not fiction.   
Rock, Flag & Eagle.........

a2capt

As if I should have added, too, I just can't believe that this would rate a letter written all the way from the top on the subject. Talk about a level that should not even have to worry about that kind of pettiness.