Should customs/courtesies and uniform wear be enforced?

[Gunner C]

  I know someone from the AF Thunderbirds who would say different. As soon as they can change, they go to coveralls or blues.

I'm no Thunderbird pilot, but regular AF aircrew do wear the flight suit as a standard, everyday uniform.  Maybe you should have a chat with your friend and get that clarified. Again, it's a uniform just like the ABU, BDU, blues, etc., and I don't understand the discrimination against aircrew members wearing flightsuits.

If you're looking for the Thunderbirds, Golden Knights, Blue Angels, etc as an example of what the RM does, you're looking in the wrong place.  They're first pretty.  

[jb512]

 Pilot or not, you should wear the CAP uniform (flightsuit)! This is not an anti- pilot thread....READ THE POSTS!!!!....If you still can't understand what's going on...how the heck did you ever become a pilot?

We're not taking it as an anti-pilot thread.  We're just trying to point out that you're a little confused or misinformed about the wear of the flight suit and we're trying to clarify that.

[es_g0d]

I assure you, nothing was meant personally.  I find some of the comments made on this board to be evocative, however, of anti-flyer sentiments which have no place in the Civil Air Patrol.

I affirm a flight crew member's right to wear a flightsuit as a utility uniform when the wear of a utility uniform is appropriate.  Its the aircrew member's equivalent of BDUs.  It doesn't matter if you are going to or coming from an active flight activity.  Its a uniform.

The rules about "don't make unnecessary stops" etc. while wearing a flightsuit derive from the fact that you shouldn't conduct anything but necessary business in ANY utility uniform.  Where CAPR 39-1 restricts the wear of flightsuits, it similarly restricts the wear of BDUs and other utility uniforms.

I agree with you, Rob, on the part of "why would you want to hang out in a flightsuit anyway," since they're hot in the summer and cold in the winter and the zippers can be murder on your knees.  Its a utility uniform, and so long as a member meets standards and requirements, its no different than choosing BDUs or the Blue BDUs.

Some of the "don't wear a flightsuit" sentiment may come from other services.  In the Navy, flightsuits are considered special purpose wear and are only worn when performing flight duties.  Its my understanding that there are similar policies in place in the Army as well.  We don't wear "Navy style" or "Army style" uniforms; CAPR- 39-1 clearly states that we wear "USAF style" uniforms.  We aspire to the standards of the USAF, and rightfully so.

In the Air Force, AND in Civil Air Patrol, its not special purpose wear -- ITS A UNIFORM.

[Rob Sherlin]

 I've spent a lot of time on Edwards Air Base. And I didn't see too many pilots running around in flight suits unless they're going to fly. I don't blame them considering the weather in California in the summer.

And thrice again!!!!  I only commented on this subject because there was a post on members showing up in flightsuits that were not CAP! For you guys who fly all the time, wear the CAP flight suits....fly on...I salute you. I just think there are those who wear them just to have others acknowledge "I'm a pilot", even though they're not flying...........That's the problem!

[jb512]

I've spent a lot of time on Edwards Air Base. And I didn't see too many pilots running around in flight suits unless they're going to fly. I don't blame them considering the weather in California in the summer.

A lot of us have spent time on AF bases and that's just not the case.  I see pilots, flight engineers, and loadmasters who wear nothing but flight suits almost every single day.  I also wear a flight suit every single day that I work whether I am flying or not.  As far as the weather, they're not any more uncomfortable than ABUs (except that you can't take your top off, but there are ways we adapt).  And just because you think that someone is wearing a flight suit just to show off does not make that a fact.  Your opinion is noted.

Yes, they're hot, they're cold, there are zippers, you sweat, you shiver...  The same things happen in all kinds of different uniforms.

I don't know if there's anything else I can provide to make this point any clearer.

[Rob Sherlin]

 Back to standards.....Don't show up in a USAF flightsuit or any other, unless you have business with that uniform and CAP........Otherwise...YOU'RE OUT OF UNIFORM!!!!!!!!

[jb512]

Back to standards.....Don't show up in a USAF flightsuit or any other unless you have business with that uniform and CAP........Otherwise...YOU'RE OUT OF UNIFORM!!!!!!!!

Ok.

[Rob Sherlin]

You want to wear a flight suit all the time and your squadron commander says its ok....so be it!....You're nuts!....this is CAP!..there's no "scramble" that's going to call for you to be in a flight suit all the time!....suit yourself!!!!!

You fly in those big lumbering things?....They're cool to fly in, but I want to yell at em' for flying so low over my house....Niagara Falls Airbase buddy!!!!! Wish I can fly an F-16 over theirs.

[PHall]

I've spent a lot of time on Edwards Air Base. And I didn't see too many pilots running around in flight suits unless they're going to fly. I don't blame them considering the weather in California in the summer.

Edwards is a unique place. I wouldn't use it as an example for anything military.

Stick your head into the Test Squadrons or the Test pilot School, you'll see plenty of flight suits there.

[Rob Sherlin]

 Then again, could you be confusing nomex flight suits and utility coveralls? And for the other post, Edwards is unique all right. But they have frequent practice sorties, and I still don't see that many people running around in flightsuits........A LOT of utility suits, but not a lot of flight suits (SSSHHHHH!!!!!...Do you know about the missile silos by JPL?)

[Short Field]

 The commander of a flying unit such as a wing commander will almost always be seen in a bag, but he doesn't fly much.  It's part of the tradition, the culture, and the way they dress.

This trend started in the late '80s and reached it peak with McPeak.  When I was on crew in the mid-80s, if you were not flying, then you came into the squadron in blues.   Wing Commanders were rarely seen in a flight suit unless they were flying - and they normally had blues on before and after.  McPeak felt pilots should wear the flight suit anywhere and anytime.  McPeak started many bad things in motion that eventually resulted in the Air Force losing most of it's influence in the joint world.

[Hawk200]

I've spent a lot of time on Edwards Air Base. And I didn't see too many pilots running around in flight suits unless they're going to fly.

I find that surprising. I spent four years there, and I saw aircrew in flghtsuits all the time. There was a guy that lived downstairs from me that wore his every day, flying or not. Saw him in BDU's only a couple of times.

[heliodoc]

Mr Sherlin

We in Army Aviation go between BDU's and flight suits, ALL the time, whether we are flying or not.  I say we even if I am retired...

Don't know where all the anti flight suit sentiment comes in..

IF the flight suit ISN'T a uniform, why is Vanguard selling its so called blue"flight suit?"  Is it not a uniform item??

When the Sqdn CC says I can not wear it, then I will do the BDU thing, but where I come from , it has not reached ALARM status to jump on everyone.

Nomex was not designed for you stylin' 39-1 guys, can't starch 'em, not worth really ironing, so what is the deal here?

If current AF policy is Nomex only in flying assignments, then that is their policy, and excuse me I haven't been in my 39-1 this week to check if my flight status warrants wearing BDU's or flight suit today at the Sqdn meeting.  Hot in summer, cold in the winter is the standard.  I never thought the BDU's were any warmer.

WOW  what a forum worrying about silly stuff....wearing Nomex versus BDU's.  If they are not a uniform, NHQ should send a letter to Vanguard, DIRECTING them to clear there shelves, today!!!!

[Climbnsink]

I just wear my golf shirt under my flightsuit- keeps all the bases covered.   Plus that way I can wear a flightsuit and pop my collar.

[Always Ready]

^*facepalm* I think I'll layer mine. Blues, then BDUs, and then the flight suit on top. That way I am prepared for everything

WARNING: This entire post is complete and utter sarcasm, proceed with caution!

[SilverEagle2]

I typically fly into my Sqd meetings and wear a flight suit. Not a single complaint from anyone yet. Is the fact that I arrive in a plane a driving factor of my uniform choice? You bet. If I drive, I am in blues or golf shirt. If I could find a cover to match my BDU's, I'd wear those.

However, I find I am one of a few that actually wear a uniform to meetings. So perhaps that is why no one argues the point. They are not in uniform to complain about what uniform I am in.

[Major Carrales]

I typically fly into my Sqd meetings and wear a flight suit. Not a single complaint from anyone yet. Is the fact that I arrive in a plane a driving factor of my uniform choice? You bet. If I drive, I am in blues or golf shirt. If I could find a cover to match my BDU's, I'd wear those.

However, I find I am one of a few that actually wear a uniform to meetings. So perhaps that is why no one argues the point. They are not in uniform to complain about what uniform I am in.

Uniforms should be worn to CAP meetings.  One could argue that if wearing the golf shirt combo is too much to ask and is some sort of bother...then wearing any clothes at all must be a bother.

I mean, really, short sleeve blues is just a button down shirt, a belt, pants and shoes with a nametag. (you don't even need other badges or ribbons and you can keep the should marks on it if you hang it up after use.)

The Golf shirt is just a polo shirt with grey pants and your choice of shoes and belt.  BDUs are just a shirt, pants, black under[mess], boots, a belt (which you could keep on the pants) and a hat (and a cap at that).

There is nothing to wearing a uniform properly, unless you get your clothes out of a clothing hamper or off the floor for wear.

Honestly, I puzzle at this.

[SilverEagle2]

I completely agree. That is why I am in uniform.

Not to mention, I am also on Wing Staff and believe you lead the subordinate units by example.

[Al Sayre]

snip

Uniforms should be worn to CAP meetings.  One could argue that if wearing the golf shirt combo is too much to ask and is some sort of bother...then wearing any clothes at all must be a bother.

snip

Thanks Major, that was a mental picture I didn't need.  (Where's that puking smiley when you want it?)

[Rob Sherlin]

 I'm not arguing the fact that the flight suit is a uniform.....And I'm not anti-flight suit....If you're flying or going to be flying. This whole thing started when someone mentioned there were several members who show up to meeting in flight suits whether they're flying or not. I just think if you're not going to be flying, then show up in one of the "non-flying" uniforms, that's my whole point. And if you're going to be flying, ok, wear a flight suit, but wear a CAP flight suit.
  I could be wrong about Edwards and the whole Airbase thing as it was a long time ago, but then again, that's regular military (who wear uniforms all the time) and CAP isn't. Why would anyone show up to a meeting in a flight suit if they're not going to be flying?