Civil Air Patrol Helicopter

[JB_407]

I dont believe that I suggested medivac ops at all. Certainly not in an R-44. I was asked if I thought we could field these types of folks. Because the military has decided to curtail M.A.S.T. ops in the interior of Alaska, it has been explored at state and federal levels to have CAP take over these ops as one option. My comment was based on the fact that many of the military PJ's, Medics, Docs have expressed an interest in this. It has also been suggested that some funds could be divereted from the M.A.S.T. funding.

I think the more likely role would be recovery of lost hunters, boater, snowmachiners. I think there would also be some value in putting GC members on the ground to render first aid, morale support, and bear protection until proper resources could be gathered. Remember resource here are limited, fire/EMS services are largley provided by volunteers. This is a state with a village fire department funded by high school girls.

[JB_407]

And last thing I want to mention. AST didn't stop flying the Astar, didn't stop flying the 206 either. They supplemented that fleet with R-44s. They do usefull missions with R-44s, and they free up the other airframes for more urgent/demanding missions.

On a lighter note maybe V-22's?

[heliodoc]

JB

After 22years as a USARNG with with 10 years as a Aircraft Technical Inspector for UH1, UH60, OH58, CH47, and C12 series aircraft and 20 year in the wildland fire arena with helicopter operations and working with operator in the field in less than than desirable conditions (read NO hangaring) I do come to know the costs of both in field and out of field maintenance and tracking parts and projecting costs for either no shelving of parts, shelving and inventory of parts, AOG issues, and cost for infrastructure...............

I do not take anything here on CAPTalk personally.  Because CAP trains so little and has plenty of folks thinking they can preach helos to the masses, it takes a FEW of us here to wrangle in the misinformed.  Not that you are misinformed.  The general ideas that CAP could use a helicopter or two isn't a new idea.  It is just an idea that would not float whether CAP had an R44 or a Chinook.  It is a world that CAP, for lack of better terms, does not possess a full understanding of the REAL operational world when it comes to supporting a mission like this.

If CAPTAlkers spent as much time chirping about uniforms as they do as they COULD informing themselves about the helo world......they would come to the true and cold hard reality that CAP best keep its head in fixed wing operations and leave the helicopters to us kids who have toiled in and out, round and around a helicopter. 

CAP taking over MAST operations in AK?  Better leave it to many of the operators such as, ERA helicopters, Air Methods, and Sheriffs Office /LE
CAP is just waiting to take on a liability and EMS issue that is beyond there BLS/ALS skills and that maybe a CAP Cessna 206 MIGHT be able to an ambulatory......

But I would put better bets on the PAID and contract pros that do this EVERYDAY

[flyboy53]

flyboy...

That is right...CAP STANDING by the AF helicopter and you mentioned limited use of helicopters...Today's risk averse CAP and someof its unclear regulations would NOT be a good contender for helicopter operations until they MONEY, intestinal fortitude, and a willingness to stand up and MAINTAIN a program of this nature.  CAP maybe on the leading edge of technology....just not with helicopters

Force multiplier for helicopters....good 'ol CASH, dinero, bucks, sawbucks, Kugerand (sp), Deutchmarks (sp), anything on Wall Street that is NOT fake money, is the true force multiplier

Anything with some substantial "force multiplier" cash backing can be in this game.  CAP just ought to stick with fixed wing

I know, you're correct. I can dream, though...can't I...he,he

[JB_407]

JB

After 22years as a USARNG with with 10 years as a Aircraft Technical Inspector for UH1, UH60, OH58, CH47, and C12 series aircraft and 20 year in the wildland fire arena with helicopter operations and working with operator in the field in less than than desirable conditions (read NO hangaring) I do come to know the costs of both in field and out of field maintenance and tracking parts and projecting costs for either no shelving of parts, shelving and inventory of parts, AOG issues, and cost for infrastructure...............

I do not take anything here on CAPTalk personally.  Because CAP trains so little and has plenty of folks thinking they can preach helos to the masses, it takes a FEW of us here to wrangle in the misinformed.  Not that you are misinformed.  The general ideas that CAP could use a helicopter or two isn't a new idea.  It is just an idea that would not float whether CAP had an R44 or a Chinook.  It is a world that CAP, for lack of better terms, does not possess a full understanding of the REAL operational world when it comes to supporting a mission like this.

If CAPTAlkers spent as much time chirping about uniforms as they do as they COULD informing themselves about the helo world......they would come to the true and cold hard reality that CAP best keep its head in fixed wing operations and leave the helicopters to us kids who have toiled in and out, round and around a helicopter. 

CAP taking over MAST operations in AK?  Better leave it to many of the operators such as, ERA helicopters, Air Methods, and Sheriffs Office /LE
CAP is just waiting to take on a liability and EMS issue that is beyond there BLS/ALS skills and that maybe a CAP Cessna 206 MIGHT be able to an ambulatory......

But I would put better bets on the PAID and contract pros that do this EVERYDAY

I understand and even agree with you. I think where you and I depart is that I see no problem with CAP changing, getting a clue, etc.. I guess thats in part because I have no military background and don't understand how the HQ people think. As a commercial operator I when I move into a new arena  where I am lacking understanding I simply purchase the knowledge by hiring consultants or staff with that knowledge. One thing I am fairly certain of. How ever it is handled in the long run its not likely to be by a for profit organization. My true sense of it is that we will continue to get support of the Army, Air Force and CG.

[JB_407]

Flying Pig

You have me wondering what your SAR training looks like? I guess what I am really wondering is are all of the the officer/pilots in your unit able to perform any mission or only missions for which they have recieved specific training.

Kind of think of it in terms of the AMD green card.

[Flying Pig]

Its sort of a complicated process.  We all start off as Flight Officers (Observers) where we are trained as Rescue Techs, Swift Water Rescue Techs.  We do not start as pilots.  Even if you already happen to be a pilot, EVERYONE starts as a TFO.  If you want to become a pilot, you are required to obtain your PPL Helo on your own.  When I did it, you had to pay for ALL of your own training.  Either way, after you get your ratings, you stay a Flight Officer, and over the course of your time in the unit, you steadily work on all of your pilot skills as time permits while still performing your Flight Officer duties. There are only 4 unit pilots.  So someone could be a Commercial rated Pilot, but may wait 10-12 years to actually become a unit PIC.  You have to wait for one of those 4 pilots to die, retire or move on.
We have an in-house 500 hour training program that needs to be completed to become a Unit PIC.  That training involves all aspects of SAR Ops at all altitudes and at night on NVG's, mountain flying, Emergency Procedures, water rescue techniques, etc etc.  By the time a TFO becomes a unit PIC, typically they will have about 500-800hrs turbine time.  That doesnt sound like a lot until you remember that that is all turbine time, and it is all skill building.  We dont have pilots with 1000hrs sitting right seat in an R-22 instructing.  There isnt a whole lot of straight and level stuff.  Now, there are skills, such as long line, and certain other high altitude SAR ops that you may have restrictions placed on you, and when you demonstrate proficiency you are free to execute missions.  But for the most part, you are pretty much good to go. 
I primarily fly our plane full time for surveillance and SAR.  as I have said on other threads, When it comes to our units fixed wing SAR ops, I basically plagerized CAPs FOrm 5's and Form 91's and search techniques as they apply to fixed wing ops.
We usually use the plane for High Bird to communicate with ground guys and to coordinate with the two helicopters as the search, but if it happens to be IFR at the airport, I will head out first and depart IFR and head up to the mountains where it is usually clear and start looking and after it clears, the helo's will come up.  Not a bad gig.  hats a brief run-down anyway.

Some photos of our ops

http://www.alea.org/PhotoGallery/gallery.asp?rid=45&gid=89

[JB_407]

FP

Thanks for the information. Does indeed sound like a good gig.

JB