Air Force Base Augmentation Program

[RiverAux]

I think you're really overestimating the importance of funding for an augmentation program.  Most SDFs get less state funding than do many CAP Wings.  Yes, there are some situations where SDF members get paid to do the job, but that is more the exception than the rule from what I can tell. 

The CG doesn't allocate any money to train CG Auxies to do augmentation at all, which is the more appropriate comparison.   

For most jobs where CAP augmentation would be appropriate on-the-job training should be sufficient. 

[afgeo4]

I think you're really overestimating the importance of funding for an augmentation program.  Most SDFs get less state funding than do many CAP Wings.  Yes, there are some situations where SDF members get paid to do the job, but that is more the exception than the rule from what I can tell. 

The CG doesn't allocate any money to train CG Auxies to do augmentation at all, which is the more appropriate comparison.   

For most jobs where CAP augmentation would be appropriate on-the-job training should be sufficient. 

USCG pays for USCG Aux personnel to go to A schools and also incorporates training of Auxiliarists into the man hours of their active duty/reserve personnel. In that sense they absolutely do pay for it. Man hours are the most rudimentary expenditure the military has and they are absolutely accounted for.

As far as SDFs are concerned, the SDFs are run by the same department that runs the Air and Army national guards and all SDF expenses come from this department, at least they do in NY. The only thing the guardsman doesn't get paid for is his/her time. All basic equipment and uniforms are issued by the State.

[DNall]

I think the issue will always come down to funding. Making sure that the members we put on the lines are properly taken care of, properly fed, uniformed, trained, etc. All of that takes money. Currently, the SDFs training is paid by the State's military department which also pays for the National Guard. Since the money is allocated anyway, it makes little difference who gets paid. The state can choose to pay a national guardsman to do the job or they can just fund the training for the state guardsman. Either way, they're the state's military. Remember, the state pays for the SDF member's training, food, uniform, and if activated, the member receives pay and allowances. In NY Guard, SAD pays $100 per day to enlisted men, regardless of paygrade.

Careful now, that varies widely from state to state. The overwhelming majority of SDFs do NOT get paid for training, regular drill, uniforms, any of that stuff. They are volunteers just like CAP. Now most DO get paid a SAD rate when called up for an emergency, and we'd like to get something similar for CAP, but that's not real likely. On the other hand some states don't give the SAD rate or job protection to their official SDF, making then the same as CAP.

Now, if you say "hey, that's where we can save you money!", remember, the state cannot make us responsible for things they do not pay for. So, our training, if not provided by the state or the federal government, is just for kicks. They cannot hold us responsible for being properly trained if they don't provide or fund the training. Same for uniforms.

The federal govt does pay millions a year of CAP training, it may not go in your pocket as salary, and it may not be distributed fairly, but they do provide for our training. A lot of states also provide financial support for CAP.

Now, if you're a security forces SrA (for example) and a CAP officer shows up for his watch and he's wearing a pair of slacks and a polo because no one issued him/her a uniform and he doesn't know how to check ID's because no one paid to train him/her, what use is it to the Airman? It just takes his attention away from his job. Also, what image of CAP does it reflect?

Agreed absolutely. I don't know how CGAux does theirs & I'm not in an SDF though I know a lot of CAP members that are. In Texas though, to do augmentation thru the SDF you have to apply for an open position. In order to get the job you're going to have to have the right uniforms & a couple years experience in the SDF just as a prereq. Then they're going to eval if you are going to work out in that role & if so they'll get you in the remedial correspondence training mentored by someone on the SDF side that's done that job in the military. You have to meet any military requirements to hold that job & you have to do it at your or the SDFs expense (minus the real cost of courses offered to you for free from places like AFIADL). So you don't step onto the line till you're as qualified as anyone else coming out of tech school, and in fact are generally awarded the badge & AFSC that go with it.

If we want our forces to be professionally trained to do a job, we're going to have to find a way to fund that. The way to do that is to petition the Air Force to create such a program and then petition the Congress for the appropriate funds. Will it happen? Not while there's a war going on. The Army and USMC need waaaaay too much money for someone to appropriate additional funding to the Air Force. Or worse, the Congress may love the idea and issue funding for it... along with appropriate downsizing of the force for USAF to account for the new help.

Yep. I think Congress would buy it based on the decades old examples by CGAux & SDFs, I think some laws would be changed on CAP (chiefly job protection, but maybe also that we'd be bound by UCMJ when on AFAM including augmenting, and some kind of per diem along the lines of SAD pay under certain conditions - like deployed over 48 hrs). I think Congress would also take into account the scale of those programs when defining expectations for what we could do. And at the end of the day I think they'd fund it (it'd cost a lot less that you're thinking), and would indeed cut AF back a touch more to account for the extra help.. redirecting that money into war fighting efforts, which is part of what CAP is all about.

[afgeo4]

You're assuming they'll cut from a specific operational budget and I'm assuming they'll cut from the overall USAF budget handed to the SECAF. I think they money would get redirected to the Army/USMC and I think that's the number 1 fear of the Air Force at this time. They are already made to cut their forces and replace them with civillians and although the very top brass talks about that enthusiastically, it really isn't their position (commanders don't like commanding civillians).

[DNall]

No, I agree with you. It would be off the top.

Understand on this now that you have to sell it to AF FIRST, and THEN sell it to Congress. That means AF has to buy it as a means to maintain capability under the current cuts, and sell it to Congress that way. Initially it would be a test case, then small scale. On the whole I think you're looking at a limited savings that offsets the costs but offers that additional surge capability. There's a theoretical point out in the future where it could be grown to a point of allowing the AF to cut further & turn that money to war fioghters. I don't know how realistic that goal is, but it'll sell as a down the road objective.

Actual costs... would be very low. I believe we can (on paper) still attend AF training in open slots w/ facility commander approval. I'll have to look around & see if that's still on the books, but it used to be. We can also take all the correspondence stuff we want, and either have or can recruit AFSC qual'd retirees/res/guard as CAP memebrs to train/mentor our people. There will be a few manhours involved & the program can be administered by cAP volunteers under AF orders, but probably needs a couple staff members to help administer the red tape. I think it can work for quite low costs.

[RiverAux]

Regarding CG Aux going to CG schools.  That is almost entirely for training Aux people to do Aux tasks.  It has nothing at all to do with the vast majority of augmentation roles the CG Aux plays.  There are a few exceptions to this general rule, but they aren't common. 

Yes, such training takes some time (which obviously has value), but there isn't any budget anywhere that allocates money to train CG Auxies for augmentation roles (again, with a few exceptions). 

[JohnKachenmeister]

I'm glad you all got a chuckle out of CAP members performing KP, but...

1. If there is a shortage of service squadron personnel and airment aren't getting properly fed, how thankful do you think those airmen and the base staff including the CC would be if we did the job?

2. Do you guys have your noses stuck at 30,000 ft? What? Real KP duty is far too beneath you?

3. Cadets can do many tasks of KP.

4. This has been done at 174th Fighter Wing, NYANG and with great success and the base was VERY thankful and in fact, they were the ones to appoach us for help, not the other way around. Their budget was slashed and they could not sustain enough service personnel for non-UTA weekends even though they were in high tempo flight ops training at the time.


Now, the question here was what is it that CAP could do to boost the Air Force's operational abilities, not what it is that CAP could do to boost its members egos.
I'm happy that so many of you like to pretend you're Generals and Air Force Chiefs of Staff, but you're not. You're simply Auxiliarists. We are all less qualified to do the jobs than professional Airmen. Otherwise, someone would pay you to do those jobs already. So, drop your attitudes and look for ways we can help the real Air Force with real tasks that they really need.

P.S. Weather briefings are not mission briefings. The SrA that did that weather briefing was a weather airman. Unless you're a professional weather forecaster, please don't pretend you can do the briefing. The actual mission briefings are usually done by the flight leader and the information is usually on the mission parameters, not atmospheric conditions. That's what weather briefings are for. There are also intel briefings. We can't do that either.
"Mission first, people always!"

George:

I do not have my nose stuck at 30,000 feet.  But yes, KP is beneath my current station in life.  I went to Officer Candidate School, the Officer Basic Course, the Officer Advanced Course, the Physical Security Inspector Course, the Public Affairs Officer Course, all in the Army.  In CAP I've been through SLS and CLC, and the National Inspector General College.  I have commanded an Army Reserve company, a CAP Squadron, and a National Guard battalion.

I don't do KP anymore.  I did it back in the 1960's when I was a junior enlisted guy.  When the President gave me a document saying that he had "Special trust and confidence" in my "Patriotism, valor, fidelity, and abilities," I sort of considered it inappropriate to perform menial tasks.  I don't think the President would like seeing one of his officers scraping off trays, except for Christmas dinner, when officers traditionally serve the troops the holiday meal.

"We are all less qualified than 'professional airmen?'"  Speak only for yourself on that one.

I'll let some of the other fellows offer their opinions on the issue of weather briefings, but I am of the opinion that any pilot should be capable of interpreting weather data from the reporting products that are available.  Every pilot is his own weather forecaster.  The operations briefing also, by its nature, includes airspace data that is not strictly weather-related, but which still should be familiar to any pilot.

[RiverAux]

I think the rule should be that any CAP member performing augmentation duties should have to meet the exact same standards of job performance as the Air Force person who normally does it.  That is the way the CG treats the CG Aux. 

So, if a CAP member has the necessary skills and is able to complete whatever training tasks would be asked of an AF weather briefer, or any other job, then if the AF needs them, they should use them in that position.   

[DNall]

I think the rule should be that any CAP member performing augmentation duties should have to meet the exact same standards of job performance as the Air Force person who normally does it.  That is the way the CG treats the CG Aux. 

So, if a CAP member has the necessary skills and is able to complete whatever training tasks would be asked of an AF weather briefer, or any other job, then if the AF needs them, they should use them in that position.   

That's not exactly how CG does it. They don't go to a several month long tech school to be basically qual'd for the job. The way I understand it they do the individual system programs & continueing eduation programs along with OJT to be equiv qualified to CG standards. SDFs are basically the same, but they apply for specific jobs then do any extra training after they've been selected & approved by the parent service.

Okay found what I was looking for... AFI 10-2701:

3.18.1. Space Available Training Opportunities. All CAP members may, at their own expense, attend training programs offered at DoD Installations. FTCA/FECA does not extend to this activity. Such training will be offered for CAP personnel on a space available basis at no additional cost to the Government. CAP-USAF/CC and the training activity commander must approve the request prior to CAP participation. Examples of such programs include aerospace physiological training in accordance with AFI 11-401, Aviation Management, CISM training, etc..

3.18.2. Other Training Activities. Air Force Installations and units are authorized to provide support to CAP senior member training activities and are encouraged to provide such support whenever possible. Such support includes providing personnel as instructors for leadership, aerospace, and operational courses and workshops, providing tours of Installations and units, briefings on Installation and unit mission and capabilities, and instruction in Air Force roles and missions and the role of CAP as an auxiliary of the Air Force. The Air Force Institute for Advanced Distributed Learning (AFIADL) may provide administrative support to CAP members enrolled in both Air Force and CAP Professional Military Education (PME).
http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/pubfiles/af/10/afi10-2701/afi10-2701.pdf

Now yes I think you could ask for & get a very low funding number to aid in travel,  per diem, & lodging while attending such training, and a national coordinatiuon program to identify AF slots that need augmentation help, CAP members (or people we can recruit) who can apply for & be accepted to the augmentation program in general & then matched up with avail training slots & programs, with job protections. Yeah that all sounds quite reasonable.

[RiverAux]

That's not exactly how CG does it. They don't go to a several month long tech school to be basically qual'd for the job.

If the job requires a 2-month tech school most likely a CG Auxie will not be augmenting in that position. What they do is if the cutter needs an in-port watchstander, the CG Auxie has to complete the same tasks to get qualified in that position as any other Coastie would when they reported to the ship.  Same goes for radio duty, etc.  Basically the Auxie has to meet the same standards without the advantages that the Coasties will have had in having some background training. 

Regarding SDFs you are confusing several different approaches to augmentation.  There are some SDF people that basically get hired for jobs that could also have gone to NG members.  Those are more like what you described in regards to applying for a job.  That is one thing.  CA seems to be the only place where this is actually much of an option, and even there you hear complaints that they include CA SMR in the potential applicant pool just for show. 

Other SDF augmentation jobs are more like what we're talking about with CAP.  Ask what the NG needs and find people to do it with OJT.   

[JohnKachenmeister]

Ohio also offers sate technician jobs to members of its SDF, but most of them are military retirees.  The did their 20+ with the Guard, and went over to the SDF so that they could continue their full-time job.

[DNall]

I don't know, but I bet that position does require a rated officer, and comm watch requires comm tech school, just as almost all jobs in the military require an MOS/AFSC. What (I think) CGAux does is the CE & systems credits to qualify on the equipment & responsibilities involved in the position, not the underlying tech school. What SDFs do is pretty similiar, except they can earn an AFSC/MOS thru that process. I believe both have the ability to actually attend the tech schools if space is avail & the parent service needs them to, but I imagne it's pretty rare. Honestly a lot of people in this route would be retired service members that are already certified on the system & may or may not need a refresher course to be considered current. There's a lot of stuff below the AFSC level that's extra duty, & we could pick up a lot of that kinda thing. That's more the kind of thing you're talking about that CGAux does, that would tend to be populated w/ non-prior-service folks.

Far as the applications, all SDFs that do augmentation do that. You don't just walk across teh hall to the Guard unit CC & say put me in coach. The SDF unit is partnered with a guard unit. The ADF unit then has job slots that are there to augment in guard unit. You then apply for that staff/job slot & have to be accepted, there is no pay. It was probably you AFSC/MOS in the military before you joined the SDF & you may or may not need a refresher. For people that were not in the military, it might be half a dozen out of the 160 AF career fields that you MIGHT be able to qualify, then there's probably a dozen more you can qualify for if you do a bunch of training & are certified in the same job as a civilian (A&P on 737s for instance). And of course there's the professionally degreed officers that would be rendering non-military assitance or would have to take a bunch of training to render direct military assistance.

[RiverAux]

Nope, radio watchstander is probably by far the most common augmentation program undertaken by CG Auxies.  There are quite a few places that when you call the CG, you're talking to a CG Auxie.  There is one CG Aux comm course we make them take, but the rest is based on the same tasks the CG members have to do.  Heck, in some stations the Auxies have been there so long they're the ones training the new Coasties on the systems.  Yes, there are Auxies doing in-port watchstander jobs on cutters who got qualified as I described them (I've talked with them). 

Other CG Auxies are doing the pick-up tasks that aren't a specific job, but need to be done (for example, doing regular parts inventory at the aviation unit).  This would be the same sort of odd tasks that CAP members might be assigned to do as augmentation. 

 

[SAR-EMT1]

I do sick bay work. Im already an EMT, and didnt have to go to corpsman school.
The CG accepts what you have and fills in with OJT.
I feel any CAP with at least a Senior Rating in a related field (Personnel/Admin/HSO etc) could learn through OJT.  It would not need be a case of attending tech school. - IF thats a worry, take the AFIADL course in that field first.

[afgeo4]

So getting back to the list...

What jobs does EVERYONE agree that CAP could do with no Tech School training?

[JohnKachenmeister]

George:

CAP can do a lot of things.  Some of our members have been through either the Air Force tech school or a similar school in another branch.  Our members would need a short period of OJT or familiarization with the particular base mission, but other than that, just about any job would be open to them.

For the cadets and officers who have never been trained in anything, there are still a few jobs that they could do, such as movement control of troops during deployment, making copies of unclassified material, etc.

The way I see an augmentation program working is this:

1.  We assign an "Augmentation Coordinator" to a base, probably working somewhere in or near the personnel office.

2.  The AC develops and publishes a standard application/resume format to CAP members.

3.  Members who want to volunteer for the augmentation program submit a resume packet IAW the published guidance.  The packet would include a statement of availability.

4.  The AC determines where the member could best be utilized based upon the member's training and experience, and sends the packet to the officer in charge of the section where the AC proposes the member be assigned.  The officer, at his option, can interview the CAP member, and schedule training as appropriate. 

5.  The AC will maintain records of the CAP members' participation for statistical and reporting purposes.

6.  In the event the base requires additional assistance with an event, the AC will, depending on the nature and the scope of the event:

     a.  Call up selected volunteers from the folks who have submitted packets, and task/request their help with the special requirement.

     b.  Call the area unit commanders and request them to provide larger numbers of volunteers for the special requirement.

We're not waiting for a National-level program to get started here in FL.  We will be providing tour escorts by April at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station.  We are presently training a cadre of officers and cadets to do this.

[afgeo4]

Does anything in current CAP/USAF regs prevent us from implementing this on individual base/wing/unit level? Can we just go to our CAP-USAF liaisons with this idea?

[JohnKachenmeister]

Nothing in the current regulations prohibit this program.  There has been talk of a National program of augmentation, supported by the CAP computerized data base, but that data base is, in my opinion, not up to the task.

We're not waiting.  One of our captains discovered a need for aumentation that the USAF had locally, and took steps to put us in.  In fact, I'm going there tomorrow to finish my training.

[DNall]

Starting in with a recrutier again. Did a bunch with theri Sq years back, so have a model to build on. Would like to push on to a higher level though & of course the discussion here involves the next step beyond this.

[RiverAux]

There is nothing to prohibit it, but it does currently sit in a sort of gray area.  For example, if CAP augmentation is to be considered an AFAM, which it logically should be, we have no real specific procedures to approve them as such now since AF and CAP regulations do not really deal with this sort of activity.  I'm not saying it can't be done, just that it could be administratively confusing. 

Just to throw an example out there regarding our only real nation-wide augmentation program (Chaplains), the AF thought it necessary to specifically discuss Chaplain augmentation procedures in AFPD-10-2701.  To me this implies that they might also want such specific language for other ongoing augmentation.