Air Force Base Augmentation Program

[JohnKachenmeister]

Hey Maj. K, after we're done assisting in Air Ops, we can swing by the mess hall and if George is done sweeping up the deck and wiping down the trays, we'll take him out for a drink and hearty congratulations on a job well done!

LOL!!!!!!!!!

[DNall]

The problem with filling some of the "warm body" jobs and the specific jobs you mentioned that civilian contractors hold is that many of those contractors are military spouses suplimenting their families income.  I don't think the military people are really going to want a volunteer taking a job that is putting money in their wife's/husband's/kid's pocket.  Also, what would be the economic impact to the surrounding communities if say 50-100 jobs on any given base were suddenly removed to be staffed by volunteers.  These are all things the USAF would have to consider in using CAP volunteers in a real and meaningful position.  There are some areas where we could provide augmentation, based on individual skills and abilities,  but I don't think they would be critical and certainly would not displace contractors.  

That's valid statements, but I'm going ot disagree. What you just said sounds amazingly like what you hear from communities during BRAC. The better answer is to pay service memebrs right & cut overpaid contractor jobs.

You have to keep perspective on this though. Part-time & weekend volunteers aren't going to keep a place running. You still need a full-time staff during the day & can then operate in off-hours with a skeleton crew backed up by specialized augmentees. You know Walmart does a whole lot with part-time/wknd employees.

What could I do though? Well hell I don't know. I'd have to see the job requirements. I'm sure I could do some ops stuff, most staff officer roles, structural engineering, project mgmt, PIO, govt relations, bunch of that kinda crap. Probably quite a bit more if I had a track of what AFIADL courses I needed to enroll in & what practical OJT or remedial training I needed to do. Oh say exactly like these guys in an SDF did: http://www.agd.state.tx.us/StateGuard/air/show_news.asp?ID=14

[lordmonar]

The problem with filling some of the "warm body" jobs and the specific jobs you mentioned that civilian contractors hold is that many of those contractors are military spouses suplimenting their families income.  I don't think the military people are really going to want a volunteer taking a job that is putting money in their wife's/husband's/kid's pocket.  Also, what would be the economic impact to the surrounding communities if say 50-100 jobs on any given base were suddenly removed to be staffed by volunteers.  These are all things the USAF would have to consider in using CAP volunteers in a real and meaningful position.  There are some areas where we could provide augmentation, based on individual skills and abilities,  but I don't think they would be critical and certainly would not displace contractors.  

That's valid statements, but I'm going ot disagree. What you just said sounds amazingly like what you hear from communities during BRAC. The better answer is to pay service memebrs right & cut overpaid contractor jobs.

You have to keep perspective on this though. Part-time & weekend volunteers aren't going to keep a place running. You still need a full-time staff during the day & can then operate in off-hours with a skeleton crew backed up by specialized augmentees. You know Walmart does a whole lot with part-time/wknd employees.

What could I do though? Well hell I don't know. I'd have to see the job requirements. I'm sure I could do some ops stuff, most staff officer roles, structural engineering, project mgmt, PIO, govt relations, bunch of that kinda crap. Probably quite a bit more if I had a track of what AFIADL courses I needed to enroll in & what practical OJT or remedial training I needed to do. Oh say exactly like these guys in an SDF did: http://www.agd.state.tx.us/StateGuard/air/show_news.asp?ID=14

There is a big difference between a part-time/weekend employee and what CAP can bring to the fight.  A week end employee may only work 2 days a week...but he works them every weekend.  How much time can you give to CAP?   At most you can get a few days a month or a whole week ever other month.  As it is now...I am commited to 1 night a week and 1-2 day per month doing CAP stuff.  That I have to share with my work, my family, and my self.  I may be able to get a couple of weeks off for CAP...but I would rather go to a NBB or an encampment or NESA than go to the base and work in the personnel officer or pass and ID.

This is a great sentiment....but I just don't see it being very practical.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Pat:

You are right, of course.  Here at PAFB, we have CAP folks starting to help out with tours of the unclassified and non-sensitive areas of the Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, including the historic launch sites.  I can give them a couple of hours a week, but that's all.  And I'm a retired slug with no actual function left on this planet.  We are asking for a couple of hours a month from the folks who actually work and pay taxes.

[DNall]

There is a big difference between a part-time/weekend employee and what CAP can bring to the fight.  A week end employee may only work 2 days a week...but he works them every weekend.  How much time can you give to CAP?   At most you can get a few days a month or a whole week ever other month.  As it is now...I am commited to 1 night a week and 1-2 day per month doing CAP stuff.  That I have to share with my work, my family, and my self.  I may be able to get a couple of weeks off for CAP...but I would rather go to a NBB or an encampment or NESA than go to the base and work in the personnel officer or pass and ID.

This is a great sentiment....but I just don't see it being very practical.

I haven't had a CAP free wknd in two months, worked CAP Xmas eve & not even on a mission, & don't have a CAP-free wknd till mid-may. A bit over 60hr a month I'd say, sometimes a lot more, but at least that. And it's too much, I want to cut back.

I could do a wknd a month though, that's what SDFs do. I don't know about CGAux, but they're probably either doing only that or not doing much more than a wknd a month. maybe a couple three hours a couple nights a week. We're not looking at a 1-for-1 replacement of contractors. Just supplemental employees that can back up short-staffed shifts a few times a month, use a lot of people tied to one unit cycling theu a handful of slots (the walmart way) and you can cut a few slots down I think.

[lordmonar]

Sure you could do it...so my unit has 100 members about 50 active.  How many of them would be able to donate a day a month? 25-30?  Would that be benificial to the USAF?  Would the workcenters who got us really be able to use us?  Maybe...maybe not.  I just don't see the value added and I can see where it would hurt us in other areas.  YMMV.

If you think it would fly and work...go for it.  Organise your unit, contact the local USAF base and implement it....and let's see.

[O-Rex]

I know that somewhere in all this nonsense, there is a glimmer of noble intent, but I read all this, and can't help the disturbing vision of geekazoid CAP member saying "Hey sergeant, when I'm done sweeping the floor, can I sit in the neat-o airplane for just five minutes? Huh? Huh? Pleeeeese???"

I am proud to be a CAP member.  I am proud of the skill set I brought to CAP, and even more proud of those that I acquired since joining CAP.  I am thankful for the opportunity to dilligently put those skills to use in accomplishing CAP's mission, and would like to think that my collegues and I perform our duties in earnest with a sense of dignity and professionalism.

Quick review: what is our mission?  Altogether now: Emergency Services/Homeland Security, Develop America's Youth, and Inform the Public on Aerospace Power and Development.

The driving force of an organization is the accomplishment of its mission, no?  (for those of you who want to squeeze every drop of military-type mojo from CAP, and do it like the pros do,  here's a hint: mission, mission, mission.)

With that said, tell me: How exactly is bussing tables at a Dining Facility, doing stints as a "cabana-boy" at the base pool, or even handing out moist towelettes and breath-mints in the men's room of the Pentagon going to contribute to the accomplishment of our mission??

Call me kooky, but I find something a tad-bit wrong with this scenario: "Welcome to the Wright-Patterson O-club: if your glass is empty, simply raise your hand, and our helpful Civil Air Patrol Major will refresh your drink for you...."

Let's approach this from another angle: Bases stimulate the local economy.  Suppose I'm a senator/congressman with a military installation in my district: would I support legislation that would take away the potential for employment of my constituents, and give them to CAP?

When the call is made for CAP members to make a contribution to their community and nation in the manner in which they were trained, whether as a separate entity or directly assisting USAF, I'm your man.

When a bunch of "Groupies" scramble to do anything for a chance to hang-out with gen-u-ine warfighters and bask in the weird glow of a military installation, and with a little luck, obtain the holy-grail of all wannabees, a CAC card, I think I'll pass.

You know what tickles me? Folks are reading this post, and thinking, "he just doesn't get it, does he??"

[RiverAux]

Besides the rather obvious augmentation roles (lawyers and other such professionals) I tend to think that for "unskilled" CAP members (meaning those that would need OJT to do a particular augmentation job), we would be better off focusing CAP members on supporting only one or two units at any particular air base.  This would make administering the program, both from the CAP side and the AF side somewhat easier as relationships would only need to be maintained with a relatively small group of people.  So, rather than having CAP members spread so far across the base that no one notices what they're doing, we would have an opportunity to really have an impact on one unit. 

Now, I don't think that a significant percentage of current CAP members would drop what they're doing and only do augmentation.  They didn't join CAP to do that.  However, I believe people would join CAP in the future to do augmentation were it actually a viable option.  I think the State Defense Forces focused on NG augmentation show that this can be the case.

I don't think anyone here is arguing that CAP members would be taking over a lot of permanent positions.  However, there is a lot to be said to be able to call in some CAP people to fill in while your regular folks go do training or concentrate on higher priority tasks for a short while.   

[DNall]

I think if you'll check the law & history you'll find that the three blades on that prop just represent what were the the three primary missions of a larger list at the begining. If you'll then look at the current law you'll find that at least AE has dropped back on that list & ES is replaced with "non-combat missions of the Air Force." Now I don't know what non-combat missions of the AF means to you, but to me it means everything that don't involve pulling a trigger. Seems the AF agrees with that limit as they've decided direct combat support is allowable & assigned us stuff like radar intercept targets & HLD missions. Now I don't know what all we can or can't do, but augmentation sure does fill the bill on that new mission we've been assigned these last six years.

I think you can look to SDFs & CGAux working that angle with their parent services for a long time now & not having a whole lot of trouble doing it. They don't play "cabana boy" either, they are either professionally degreed & certified or they are AFSC/MOS qualified.

[lordmonar]

However, there is a lot to be said to be able to call in some CAP people to fill in while your regular folks go do training or concentrate on higher priority tasks for a short while.   

Now that I could see.  The base is doing an exercise and CAP volunteers come in and run the Gym...because the military folk are out playing Army for a week.  That I could see us doing...and would even help out.  But sustained?  No, I don't see it.

[SAR-EMT1]

Besides the rather obvious augmentation roles (lawyers and other such professionals) I tend to think that for "unskilled" CAP members (meaning those that would need OJT to do a particular augmentation job), we would be better off focusing CAP members on supporting only one or two units at any particular air base.  This would make administering the program, both from the CAP side and the AF side somewhat easier as relationships would only need to be maintained with a relatively small group of people.  So, rather than having CAP members spread so far across the base that no one notices what they're doing, we would have an opportunity to really have an impact on one unit. 

I believe people would join CAP in the future to do augmentation were it actually a viable option. 

I don't think anyone here is arguing that CAP members would be taking over a lot of permanent positions.  However, there is a lot to be said to be able to call in some CAP people to fill in while your regular folks go do training or concentrate on higher priority tasks for a short while.   

Sure...the ability to augment and actually DO something is one reason why i joined the CG-Aux.  - Yes Im a GTM/L in CAP but in my years  Ive never had 1 single mission. My squadron as a unit has never responded to one single mission. We have a very high turn over rate for Seniors. The seniors show up, get the Check rides etc, maybe get an ES rating in UDF and a tech rating , but then they realize that (at our unit anyway) the chance of using the skills is NIL. So they ditch us.  If I am given the ability to augment at a base then I will do it. And so would all the Seniors that have left my unit over the years.

From a membership- ability standpoint I agree that we might want to focus on a few areas. Such as:
Personnel/Admin
Public Affairs/ Tours
Flight Ops/ Briefings

You would not see a CAP Lt. Col. handing out towels for Services at the Pool.


By that same token. When a CG-Aux member augments he or she doesnt wear his epulets. He puts on a "Aux" device
We could do this too.   So it wouldnt be... Raise your hand and the CAP Major will refill your glass, but:  The Auxiliarist /Auxie/ CAP member will help you.   The Major would wear Majors epulets, but rather an Auxiliary insignia.

But.. as far as job placement is concerned.. I think they would take our level of experience into consideration.. A CAP Major who is into Flight Ops, Met, and a CFI should be in the briefing room. Let the 2nd Lt. who doesnt have any quals serve drinks. etc...
Im a 1st Lt. -soon to be Capt- and an EMT and a Personnel/Admin type
I can help in the Clinic, or Personnel Flight, but Id suck in the briefing room.

All that said...
  I may be shooting myself in the foot because I was knocked from AFROTC and thus college because of a medical issue. It doesnt bother my normal life or anything (childhood asthma) but it was enough to get my out of ROTC when they cancelled my med waiver.  If we augment on base, would we have to meet the AD physical/health standards, or could we get waivers? (that dont get pulled) OR, is this a null issue?

[RiverAux]

lordm... If by sustained you mean 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, no you will not see that.  Full-time for a week or two as "surge capacity" -- yes, that could happen. 

However, sustained part-time (maybe 1-2 days a week) work more or less on a permanent basis, is much more likely to be where any augmentation program would go and I believe that would be fully feasible.  There have been CG Auxies pulling radio shifts every week for 10-15 years. 

There are very few places where I've worked that I couldn't use such a part-time person. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

I know that somewhere in all this nonsense, there is a glimmer of noble intent, but I read all this, and can't help the disturbing vision of geekazoid CAP member saying "Hey sergeant, when I'm done sweeping the floor, can I sit in the neat-o airplane for just five minutes? Huh? Huh? Pleeeeese???"

I am proud to be a CAP member.  I am proud of the skill set I brought to CAP, and even more proud of those that I acquired since joining CAP.  I am thankful for the opportunity to dilligently put those skills to use in accomplishing CAP's mission, and would like to think that my collegues and I perform our duties in earnest with a sense of dignity and professionalism.

Quick review: what is our mission?  Altogether now: Emergency Services/Homeland Security, Develop America's Youth, and Inform the Public on Aerospace Power and Development.

The driving force of an organization is the accomplishment of its mission, no?  (for those of you who want to squeeze every drop of military-type mojo from CAP, and do it like the pros do,  here's a hint: mission, mission, mission.)

With that said, tell me: How exactly is bussing tables at a Dining Facility, doing stints as a "cabana-boy" at the base pool, or even handing out moist towelettes and breath-mints in the men's room of the Pentagon going to contribute to the accomplishment of our mission??

Call me kooky, but I find something a tad-bit wrong with this scenario: "Welcome to the Wright-Patterson O-club: if your glass is empty, simply raise your hand, and our helpful Civil Air Patrol Major will refresh your drink for you...."

Let's approach this from another angle: Bases stimulate the local economy.  Suppose I'm a senator/congressman with a military installation in my district: would I support legislation that would take away the potential for employment of my constituents, and give them to CAP?

When the call is made for CAP members to make a contribution to their community and nation in the manner in which they were trained, whether as a separate entity or directly assisting USAF, I'm your man.

When a bunch of "Groupies" scramble to do anything for a chance to hang-out with gen-u-ine warfighters and bask in the weird glow of a military installation, and with a little luck, obtain the holy-grail of all wannabees, a CAC card, I think I'll pass.

You know what tickles me? Folks are reading this post, and thinking, "he just doesn't get it, does he??"






O-Rex:

You are absolutely right.  We all got a chuckle out of the suggestion that officers do KP.

We have Congressional authority to perform any non-combat mission of the Air Force.  If one considers a war an "Emergency," the definition of "Emergency Services" can be stretched to include providing temporary help for personnel shortages to the USAF.  This help should be at jobs that are not inconsistent with officer rank.  If you go back to the list I came up with, I think that you will fin a few good ideas in there, which do not include fatigue details. 

For example:  The PA shop could probably use a CAP officer (or cadet) to go out and do a story about something on base.  There as some information earlier that some base newspapers would have to shut down due to a shortage of Air Force journalists.  The base newspaper is an important way that the commander can communicate with the base community, and should be preserved, if possible.  We can help with that.

We can also provide some clerical support, as well as professional support during times when the base is facing special demands, such as deploying troops.  I mentioned using our lawyers to help out.  Our medics can help out with immunizations, Officers (and cadets) without particular professional skill can assist with personnel movement, especially on the flight line.

One of our captains approached Patrick AFB and offered CAP officers and cadets to help out with tours of historic launch sites at Cape Canaveral AFS, which had been suspended dueto security concerns after 9/11.  He worked out an agreement, and we are starting those tours in April.  We will have a CAP officer or cadet (The base required that cadets be at least 16) escorting tours, and explaining the space program's early development from the actual blockhouse and firing room that launched the Exploter I sattelite, and Alan Sheppard/Gus Grisson in the Mercury program.  CAP will be in uniform and representing the US Air Force, replacing NCO's from the 45th Space Wing who formerly conducted the tours.  That would, I think, come under "External Aerospace Education," and I think the program is great.  I am completing my training on Sunday, and will be on the schedule in April.

I think this is, at least with most of us, less the "Wannabe Warfighter" syndrome as it is the "I want to do what I can to help, so put me in, Coach" mentality.   

[lordmonar]

lordm... If by sustained you mean 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, no you will not see that.  Full-time for a week or two as "surge capacity" -- yes, that could happen. 

However, sustained part-time (maybe 1-2 days a week) work more or less on a permanent basis, is much more likely to be where any augmentation program would go and I believe that would be fully feasible.  There have been CG Auxies pulling radio shifts every week for 10-15 years. 

There are very few places where I've worked that I couldn't use such a part-time person. 

Hence the reason I am saying it is NOT a complete waste of time to try.....however.....the CG seems to have a much better rerlationship with their AUX than the USAF does with us.

[SAR-EMT1]

Hence the reason I am saying it is NOT a complete waste of time to try.....however.....the CG seems to have a much better rerlationship with their AUX than the USAF does with us.

Part of that is due to the fact that the CG is the smallest service and truely needs the Aux to be able to complete all its missions. Another reason it is better is simply because the CG has always been responsible for it and in control: there never was a corporate side, or anyone who ever tried to drag the CG-Aux away from the Coast Guard.

[DNall]

Hence the reason I am saying it is NOT a complete waste of time to try.....however.....the CG seems to have a much better rerlationship with their AUX than the USAF does with us.

Is that chicken & egg though? I mean I know augmentation isn't nearly the only thing they do, but a lot of people will tell you the reason their relationship is what it is is BECAUSE they work side-by-side on a regular basis. It's easy for AF to imagine CAP members as worthless idiots, especially when all they know are the stories they've heard & the one badly uniformed person they once saw. But, not so easy when they know & work with a competent person. Part of the reason we're talking about this is that it helps to transform the relationship. The other part of course being that this is the most direct route to fulfill "non-combat missions of the AF"

Part of that is due to the fact that the CG is the smallest service and truely needs the Aux to be able to complete all its missions. Another reason it is better is simply because the CG has always been responsible for it and in control: there never was a corporate side, or anyone who ever tried to drag the CG-Aux away from the Coast Guard.

Also true, but AF is in the middle of cutting tens of thousands of people, a small portion of which will be replaced with contractors. This is not because the AF needs to be smaller, in fact it says it needs to be bigger to accomplish its mission, but the Army needs the money/people in the short term. That creates a hole that needs filling, even if there wasn't one to start with.

If you'll look to SDFs & CGAux, they aren't doing KP. A limited number of jobs in a limited number of units are picked out & a CAP unit is partnered with them to help fill those part-time positions, In the case of SDFs, it's usually filled with retired military personnel working in their same job field. We can talk about the phsychology on that if you like, but it happens & in droves. They also qualify new people in a very limited number of fields that can be done at little or no cost. And then of course there's the professionally degreed folks. Now this effort starts with the professional degrees. No one I believe is disputing that a state certified engineer can help design a water drainage plan for the AF at no charge, and that the AF would be happy to have it with the guy in or out of uniform or on the facility or not. I don't believe anyone has  aproblem with attornies helping troops & families with civilian legal matters as their pro bono work. Obviously no one has trouble with chaplains or medical professionals filling in.

[lordmonar]

Sure it is a chicken and egg situaiton.

Go to the nearest USAF base and talk with the Wing Commander.  Find out what he needs help with, what training would be required.  Recruit your augmentees, conduct your training, schedule them up and execute your plan.

If it works...write up a white paper on it and submit it up to the USAF and CAP for implementation across the counrty.

[afgeo4]

I'm glad you all got a chuckle out of CAP members performing KP, but...

1. If there is a shortage of service squadron personnel and airment aren't getting properly fed, how thankful do you think those airmen and the base staff including the CC would be if we did the job?

2. Do you guys have your noses stuck at 30,000 ft? What? Real KP duty is far too beneath you?

3. Cadets can do many tasks of KP.

4. This has been done at 174th Fighter Wing, NYANG and with great success and the base was VERY thankful and in fact, they were the ones to appoach us for help, not the other way around. Their budget was slashed and they could not sustain enough service personnel for non-UTA weekends even though they were in high tempo flight ops training at the time.


Now, the question here was what is it that CAP could do to boost the Air Force's operational abilities, not what it is that CAP could do to boost its members egos.
I'm happy that so many of you like to pretend you're Generals and Air Force Chiefs of Staff, but you're not. You're simply Auxiliarists. We are all less qualified to do the jobs than professional Airmen. Otherwise, someone would pay you to do those jobs already. So, drop your attitudes and look for ways we can help the real Air Force with real tasks that they really need.

P.S. Weather briefings are not mission briefings. The SrA that did that weather briefing was a weather airman. Unless you're a professional weather forecaster, please don't pretend you can do the briefing. The actual mission briefings are usually done by the flight leader and the information is usually on the mission parameters, not atmospheric conditions. That's what weather briefings are for. There are also intel briefings. We can't do that either.
"Mission first, people always!"

[DNall]

Sure it is a chicken and egg situaiton.

Go to the nearest USAF base and talk with the Wing Commander.  Find out what he needs help with, what training would be required.  Recruit your augmentees, conduct your training, schedule them up and execute your plan.

If it works...write up a white paper on it and submit it up to the USAF and CAP for implementation across the counrty.

That's been done & on a pretty wide scale already. Very informal though & very limited to volunteer work kind of tasks. CGAux & SDF now, they train to military standards (AFSC/MOS) and fill man for man into one of those jobs for the time they are there. It's a limited number of AFSCs & limite dnumber of units, but they do real world stuff, even some secure stuff. What I'm looking for in this is to move up from parking cars & answering phones to making qualified people available to stand watches, just like those others have been doing for decades now.

I think if you put CAP members on professional tasks next to AF personnel that over time you'll see the opinion of CPA change, and the education level AF personnel have about us go way up. It's something of potentially huge benefit to both CAP & the AF, but it'll take time to build. The question here is should this large scale structure program be built in partnership w/ AF, and where do you draw the lines to make it effective.

[afgeo4]

I think the issue will always come down to funding. Making sure that the members we put on the lines are properly taken care of, properly fed, uniformed, trained, etc. All of that takes money. Currently, the SDFs training is paid by the State's military department which also pays for the National Guard. Since the money is allocated anyway, it makes little difference who gets paid. The state can choose to pay a national guardsman to do the job or they can just fund the training for the state guardsman. Either way, they're the state's military. Remember, the state pays for the SDF member's training, food, uniform, and if activated, the member receives pay and allowances. In NY Guard, SAD pays $100 per day to enlisted men, regardless of paygrade.

Now, if you say "hey, that's where we can save you money!", remember, the state cannot make us responsible for things they do not pay for. So, our training, if not provided by the state or the federal government, is just for kicks. They cannot hold us responsible for being properly trained if they don't provide or fund the training. Same for uniforms.

Now, if you're a security forces SrA (for example) and a CAP officer shows up for his watch and he's wearing a pair of slacks and a polo because no one issued him/her a uniform and he doesn't know how to check ID's because no one paid to train him/her, what use is it to the Airman? It just takes his attention away from his job. Also, what image of CAP does it reflect?

If we want our forces to be professionally trained to do a job, we're going to have to find a way to fund that. The way to do that is to petition the Air Force to create such a program and then petition the Congress for the appropriate funds. Will it happen? Not while there's a war going on. The Army and USMC need waaaaay too much money for someone to appropriate additional funding to the Air Force. Or worse, the Congress may love the idea and issue funding for it... along with appropriate downsizing of the force for USAF to account for the new help.