this message was recently posted on the Iowa Wing Virtual Office.
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Company: HQ Iowa Wing -- U.S. Civil Air Patrol
Project: Officer's Club --- Iowa Wing Civil Air Patrol
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Col. Ralph <cc@iawg.cap.gov> from HQ Iowa Wing -- U.S. Civil Air
Patrol said:
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I received a call tonight from the Region Commander who told me that
LtCol Critelli has been selected as the next wing commander. Make
plans to come to the January WTA for the change of command.
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Lt Col. Critelli has been a valuable assett to the CAP, and many look forward to his term as Commander.
a brief bio for Lt Col critelli can be found here
http://isuhawkeye.typepad.com/halbrook_associatescom/2007/12/new-iowa-iowa-w.html (http://isuhawkeye.typepad.com/halbrook_associatescom/2007/12/new-iowa-iowa-w.html)
http://www.lawyers.com/Iowa/Des-Moines/Nick-Critelli-996142-a.html?CMP=KNC-OSMXPV&site=729 (http://www.lawyers.com/Iowa/Des-Moines/Nick-Critelli-996142-a.html?CMP=KNC-OSMXPV&site=729)
Quote from: isuhawkeye on December 22, 2007, 04:53:27 AM
a brief bio for Lt Col critelli can be found here
http://isuhawkeye.typepad.com/halbrook_associatescom/2007/12/new-iowa-iowa-w.html (http://isuhawkeye.typepad.com/halbrook_associatescom/2007/12/new-iowa-iowa-w.html)
http://www.lawyers.com/Iowa/Des-Moines/Nick-Critelli-996142-a.html?CMP=KNC-OSMXPV&site=729 (http://www.lawyers.com/Iowa/Des-Moines/Nick-Critelli-996142-a.html?CMP=KNC-OSMXPV&site=729)
You mean our NICK Critelli!!! All due congrats from the Corpus Christi Comp Squadron (SWR-TX-026) of Group V the Texas Wing!!!
OUTSTANDING!!!
Now I guess I gotta stow my joke about a Barrister being the guy at Starbucks who makes your Mocha latte. ;D
Congrats Col Nick!
Good on ya!
Remember, Col. C... no promotion is ever official until it's officially wetted down at the o-club!
Congratulations, Col. Critelli!
Best of luck to the new Iowa CC!
An exceptionally fine choice of a dedicated senior officer.
I just got off the phone with Col. Critelli, who is in the hospital....in fact, he learned of his appointment as wing commander while being wheeled into surgery!
He is recovering well and hopes to be home for Christmas.
Col. Critelli asked me to extend his thanks to everyone for the many congratulatory messages sent to him, and to offer his best wishes to all for safe and happy holidays!
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on December 22, 2007, 03:43:49 PM
Remember, Col. C... no promotion is ever official until it's officially wetted down at the o-club!
Congratulations, Col. Critelli!
Shall we open the "virtual O-Club." Now, there's a name for a forum.
If this were 18th century Royal Navy I'd say it's definitely time to "splice the main brace"!
Quote from: ZigZag911 on December 22, 2007, 05:49:32 PM
If this were 18th century Royal Navy I'd say it's definitely time to "splice the main brace"!
If it's the 19th Century, feel free to "Tap the Admiral."
It certainly looks like the good guys do win, occasionally. Congratulations, Col Critelli.
Not even 12 hours since the announcement NOTF has already added there $0.02. got to love the self destructive nature of this organisation
LtCol Critelli Congrats sir........ :clap: :clap: :clap:
Quote from: isuhawkeye on December 22, 2007, 06:56:03 PM
Not even 12 hours since the announcement NOTF has already added there $0.02. got to love the self destructive nature of this organisation
Yeah, I saw that, sounds like sour grapes on someone who didn't get picked's part.
Quote from: ZigZag911 on December 22, 2007, 05:49:32 PM
If this were 18th century Royal Navy I'd say it's definitely time to "splice the main brace"!
I've got the Grog!
"To wives and to Sweethearts - May they never meet!"
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on December 23, 2007, 12:17:39 AM
Quote from: ZigZag911 on December 22, 2007, 05:49:32 PM
If this were 18th century Royal Navy I'd say it's definitely time to "splice the main brace"!
I've got the Grog!
"To wives and to Sweethearts - May they never meet!"
Shhhhhhhhhhhhh... don't mention grog, you might offend some folks ;D
(um, this should be in that OTHER thread)
Congrats Lt Col Critelli. From what I've seen, you're dedication can only serve to further advance CAP nationally, and certainly at the State Level. Bravo Zulu!
Well I don't know Lt Col Critelli, but if Ray Hayden and Skip Munger don't like him...I am inclined to think he is an alright guy! ;D
Congrats Nick. Get well soon!
As one of the four members having the "pleasures" of going through the Wing Commander Selection process, I just want to say.....
CONGRATS COL. NICK!!!!!
Sorry to Mrs Col Critelli.....
Congrats to Nick.
Although I'm sure some top-level CAP folks check in here every now and again, none openly post that I'm aware of. Of course Nick has slacked off a bit here lately, but its interesting that we've got a current wing commander among us. I wonder if this means we might get even more visibility for some of the topics we're talking about, for example more stuff like the uniform committee thread (though not everything there is a gem, perhaps some useful input went through it).
Quote from: RiverAux on December 23, 2007, 01:41:17 PM
Congrats to Nick.
Although I'm sure some top-level CAP folks check in here every now and again, none openly post that I'm aware of. Of course Nick has slacked off a bit here lately, but its interesting that we've got a current wing commander among us. I wonder if this means we might get even more visibility for some of the topics we're talking about, for example more stuff like the uniform committee thread (though not everything there is a gem, perhaps some useful input went through it).
One of "OUR GUYS" finally made it big. I read he was having surgery, my best wishes to him for a speedy recovery.
Outstanding news! Congrats Lt Col Critelli! I look forward to serving the State of Iowa under your command.
Well that's good news, good guy. I thought he was trying to step back from CAP for professional reasons after having played such a critical role helping them achieve all that they have. I hope he's ready for this, I'm sure he is, I've never known him to do anything half-heartedly. That's outstanding news.
First round is on the new Colonel! Congrats!
Congratulations, Colonel. My best wishes for a productive and successful command!
Congratulations Col Critelli. Having read most of your posts, I think it's refreshing that someone above the pay garde of 99.9% of the people that post here hasshown a level approach to items that members bring up. The Colonel doesn't seem to reflect the "corporate" lock-step that seems the norm on the NB and NEC, but rather an understanding of members concerns and thoughts. Again Congratulation Colonel (if you're not to busy to check in at CAPTalk)
Congradulations. I just hoe he deosnt make the whole Wing ES and forget about the cadets
Captalk members:
A heartfelt thank you for your expressions of support. This is a serious undertaking and the gravitas of the responsibility is just starting to set in. Don't worry, this will not be a one vision Wing. All three missions, ES, CP and AE are essential.
After reading and posting on Captalk for many years I have coined a new word: CAPassion which expresses the passion we all have for CAP (OK, it sounded good while on pain medication).
It is no secret that I have used Captalk to field test many a concept and based upon the feeding frenzie have made some quick changes. It was a valuable tool.
After the change of command and I become a real corporate officer it would probably not be proper for me to frequently post and give you my comments. Someone might get my personal views confused with my corporate officer role. But rest assured I will monitor.
I'll leave you with this: Keep the discussion positive and moving forward. Don't throw new ideas out just because they are new and different (we move forward by due diligence and trial and error). And above all be a team player.
CAP is a living organization. It changes to meet the needs of our community. The theme of my leadership will be: relevancy to our constituents, reliability in our performance and accountability to each other.
As always I appreciate your suggestions and comments.
Nick Critelli
A personal note to those cadets out there: Don't ever, never, ever give up.
Good luck in your new command, Col Critelli. Your input will be missed.
Oh, and get well soon (but enjoy the pain meds while you need them ;) ).
On a side note, I may be moving very close to IAWG next year, but I'm still not sure what happens to field grade officers abducted from squadrons. Can someone PM me and clue me in (so this thread doesn't get sidetracked).
Congratulations, Col. Critelli, and all the best of the holiday season.
And to quote the old radio series ... "You'll be sorrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyy!" :D
Probably not, of course. Best of luck!
Jack
I forgot to mention, Colonel: Best of wishes for your surgery as well; may you have a speedy recovery!
Col, you have both my congrats and my condolences. May your term as Commander be successful.
ATTN CAPTALK
Change of Command for IAWG is set for the January WTA at 26 January 2008 at 11:00 CST at the Joint Forces HQ, Iowa National Guard, Camp Dodge, Johnston, IA. You are ALL cordially invited to attend the ceremony and the January WTA. Please notify us in advance so arrangements, passes, etc can be made.
This will be my last CAPTALK posting. It has been a pleasure working with you. Rest assured I will be monitoring and learning from your discussions.
73
Nick Critelli
73?
Quote from: RiverAux on January 06, 2008, 09:35:03 PM
73?
He's also an Amateur Radio Operator.
To quote the Wikipedia reference:
QuoteAmateur radio operators often use the number 73 as a way of saying "best regards", typically when ending a QSO (a conversation with another ham). In Morse code, 73 is a palindrome (--··· ···--).
Quote from: The Hawk on January 07, 2008, 12:41:30 AM
He's also an Amateur Radio Operator.
He's not just an Amateur Radio Operator, he is an
Amateur Radio Operator in 2 Countries, the U.K. and the U.S.
Lucky guy, I am only licensed in the U.S. and Canada. :D
I just got word that the NCR commander has changed his mind and Nick is not getting the command. Lt. Col. Ron Scheitzach has now been selected to take the helm.
An anxious hush falls over the croud
Shock, total shock. My day just went in the crapper.
Oh gods....Mr Hayden is just going to be beside himself now! :'(
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on January 10, 2008, 10:12:07 PM
I just got word that the NCR commander has changed his mind and Nick is not getting the command. Lt. Col. Ron Scheitzach has now been selected to take the helm.
Any word as to a reason for the switch?
Jack
Ok, this is Bravo Sierra. Why would anyone think that Col. Critelli is any less qualified than the new choice? I think having the good Colonel would have been a wise decision for IAWG.
Here's a copy of the email I got (redacted):
From: [Redacted - MIKE]
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:17:50 EST
Subject: Iowa
To: (DELETED by J. YUMA)
Wing Commanders and NCR Staff,
After some serious deliberation, I have decided to name Lt. Col. Ron Scheitzach as the incoming Wing Commander for the Iowa Wing. I ask that everyone welcome Ron in his new position.
Colonel Sean Fagan
Commander
North Central Region
+++++++++++++++++++++
Okay IAWG, WTH's going on?
I am in class, I will return for my thesis and suspension of memberhsip.
I do know that Col Schietzach has been a Squadron Commander for at least 4 years, all totaled. During his command, his Squadron received at least two Unit Citations, and developed a thriving cadet program.
Quote from: ♠Recruiter♠ on January 11, 2008, 12:54:40 AM
Ok, this is Bravo Sierra. Why would anyone think that Col. Critelli is any less qualified than the new choice? I think having the good Colonel would have been a wise decision for IAWG.
And what do you know personally of either? Before you call the Bravo Sierra card, you had better know the people involved, not just what you have heard.
Take it easy.
It's natural for this community to react with some degree of shock having read this kind of news. Especially in light of the fact that Nick Critelli is a respected individual around these parts.
Can assume that the reasons for these turns of events are sound. So be it.
Quote from: Major Carrales on January 11, 2008, 02:57:41 AM
Can assume that the reasons for these turns of events are sound. So be it.
Sparky, if you're saying as professionals we need to accept the reality of the situation and continue to support CAP's missions (which implies supporting those in command), you are, of course, correct.
However, you have absolutely no basis for assuming that sound reasoning underlies this decision. That is simply blind faith, loyalty for the sake of loyalty.
You're signature tag (not sure you still have it) spoke of us having the power to change CAP.....an excellent philosophy; it is possible to be loyal to the organization and its commanders even while questioning processes, procedures, and decisions.
Of course if we stopped to have a discussion before each simple decision, we'd grind to a halt....but this was not a simple decision, this was the appointment of a wing commander, and further the endorsement and support of a vision that has implications for CAP's future. I have observed elements of the Iowa Wing method begin to be adopted and adapted in some wings in NER, and, wherever it has happened, it has borne positive results.
Withdrawing the appointment of Nick Critelli as Iowa Wing CC will have repercussions for CAP in Iowa's state government, National Guard, and among the members of the wing itself. It may also have broader repercussions within CAP nationally, further discouraging those who want to fulfill CAP's missions and minimize the political wrangling.
I don't know Gen. Courter or Col. Fagan personally. I would not think of questioning their integrity. I do, however, question the wisdom of reaching a decision of this nature, based on second and third hand observations and complaints, without ever seeking the response of the individual whose suitability was being questioned.
Lt. Col. Critelli was never asked about any of these concerns, but simply informed of the ultimate decision.
The commanders involved are within their rights, but it still seems like a poor way to do business....and it very much resembles "CAP business as usual".
An unfortunate, even disappointing turn of events; up until this point, Gen. Courter's command has been characterized by reason, transparency and fairness.
I respect what the NCR Commander has done, and I feel that he is only doing what's best for CAP. But like Tedda said, Nick Critelli is a very respected individual both in and out of his Wing. I don't see where it is fair to make an announcement that one day this person is the commander, then the next someone else. I am not questioning the NCR/CC. I would never question anyone unless I felt that there was an issue of ethics involved. But this is not fair for Nick and his family to have them prepare for something of this importance, then say that it's not gonna happen. I apologize if my initial post came off harsh, but I feel bad for Nick and the members of Iowa Wing who was looking forward to his being in command.
Senior Officer Course Vol 4. 1-1.600 - Leadership is defined as "the art of influencing and directing people in a way that will win their obedience, confidence, respect, and loyal cooperation in achieving a common objective."
"...if your leadership in not directed completely toward the mission, your leadership has failed."
What is the Civil Air Patrol's Mission? Emergency Services, Aerospace Education, and Cadet Programs.
It is PEOPLE who accomplish missions, not organizations. I will support wholeheartedly anyone who focuses on the mission, who puts their energy into the goal and purpose that so many people spend so much time, passion, and yes, money, to achieve. Anyone who does not care to do this is not only betraying the people who they are supposed to lead and serve, but they betray the mission and the organization. An organization betrayed is an organization in decay. It IS people who make the organization. I challenge whoever the next Wing Commander is to remember that, and to behave accordingly.
Who is Lt. Col. Scheitzach? In two years of involvement with Iowa Wing CAP, multiple missions, multiple exercises, I do not remember having met this person. It is confusing that a person would want to 'lead' a group of people and "win their obedience, confidence, respect, and loyal cooperation in achieving a common objective" when they have not been visible to those that they claim to want to 'lead'. And from what I understand, Lt. Col. Scheitzach is not even an active member. Why on earth would they want to be Wing Commander when they haven't cared enough to be involved or active?
I am confused as to why there was one announcement that Lt. Col. Critelli was chosen as commander, then another that 'oh, we changed our mind, let's have Lt. Col. Scheitzsach'. IF there were doubts, ask the people who would be impacted, the people who are busy, ACTIVE in the Iowa Wing, the clients who rely on us to fulfill the Civil Air Patrol MISSIONS. For goodness sakes, avoid the appearance of unprofessionalism that THIS definitely gives.
Quote from: Major Carrales on January 11, 2008, 02:57:41 AM
Can as Sparky, if you're saying as professionals we need to accept the reality of the situation and continue to support CAP's missions (which implies supporting those in command), you are, of course, correct.
I am inclined to accept your above comment. The reality of the situation is unalterable by the majority of users here at CAPTALK. I will also add that we know little of those reasons and I will alter my statement to reflect a "hope" for some sound reasoning.
This is nothing more than my usual call for "cooler heads" and "temperance" as we see what unfolds here. As more facts are made clear, we can make our own judgements. The speculation should not overrule the facts.
Quote from: Major Carrales on January 11, 2008, 04:06:01 AM
This is nothing more than my usual call for "cooler heads" and "temperance" as we see what unfolds here. As more facts are made clear, we can make our own judgements. The speculation should not overrule the facts.
Well put, as always, words we should all heed!
You can cram all of the leadership material into a discussion that you want, but in this situation this is MASSICE Bravo Sierra.
Nick Critelli is an honorable man, he was the best man at my wedding for goodness sake.
He was selected by the Region Commander, confirmed by the National Commander and was in the middle of his transition.
Not even a phone call from the person that makes the decision. That is INSULTING.
I talked to Nick today on the phone.
He feels insulted. He feels as if someone just slapped him on the face.
He also told me that he is now Mr Critelli. No longer Lt Col. Resigned Membership.
All because of backdoor politics. Good Ol' boy club.
Oh yeah on a personal note.
I resign Director of Cadet Programs Immediately. I will not serve under someone that has been inactive in CAP for 2 years and now in the New Wing CC.
Hey Skip, report this.......
Okay...what's the intell say? Why the sudden change?
James thinks it is Good O'Boy Politics....but then Nick should be shoe in. Was it presure from above? But supposedly the national commander approved it already?
Was it pressure from inside the wing?
This one is just baffeling......
Nick....are you out there? WTF...over.
BTW....Ray E-mailed me to gloat ;)
Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on January 11, 2008, 04:12:11 AM
He also told me that he is now Mr Critelli. No longer Lt Col. Resigned Membership.
You see, that's a shame. CAP could use a great man such as Nick.
Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on January 11, 2008, 04:12:11 AM
He feels insulted. He feels as if someone just slapped him on the face.
I can understand why. I've never been a commander, but that's because there is a policy in effect in my Wing that states Commanders or Deputy Commanders must be at least 25 years of age. I've never had to expirience something like that. But to receive the chance to lead an entire Wing of some great people, then have it ripped away is true Bravo Sierra.
Nick, if you are out there, there's always a place within Ohio Wing. We may not be the best Wing, but at least we beat Michigan Wing with Yeager Awards ;D
Nick will not be posting on this or any other CAP site in the immediate future. Those of us in the know are holding our breath.
My second time through tech school, I had an Airman infected with "Fairness Disease." Certain events were met with the cry of, "but that's not fair!"
My the end of the course, I got her to stop that with a look. She would then repeat the mantra:
"Life isn't fair, and the Air Force is less fair than life."
I don't have a dog in this fight, but these things happen. You just have to suck it up and drive on.
However, if your response to being passed over for Wing King at five years service is resigning, maybe CAP isn't for you.
Quote from: ddelaney103 on January 11, 2008, 01:19:26 PM
My second time through tech school, I had an Airman infected with "Fairness Disease." Certain events were met with the cry of, "but that's not fair!"
My the end of the course, I got her to stop that with a look. She would then repeat the mantra:
"Life isn't fair, and the Air Force is less fair than life."
I don't have a dog in this fight, but these things happen. You just have to suck it up and drive on.
However, if your response to being passed over for Wing King at five years service is resigning, maybe CAP isn't for you.
True, life isn't fair. I think that the major problem right now is that Nick was screwed, and never even got a phone call to tell him how bad it would be. I do like that mantra. That made me chuckle. :D
Lt Col Critelli has not made any public comments stating that he is resigning. In fact he has committed to trying to get our budget re-committed by the state. With new Govenor, and a 0 gain budget mandate times are tough. Due to our national instability sited in many recent publications our budget has ben lined out. Lt Col critelli has been actively arguing our viability, and stability. Unfortunately times like this do not support out argument.
I am a huge supporter of the program, but such an unprofessional encounter like the appointment, and flip flop is enough to drive anyone away.
Lt. Col. Scheitzach was asked, politely, not to attend the WTA's, and was removed as Squadron Commander in October of 2006. He was then moved to IA 000 by the IAWG/CC. At that point he could not participate in wing functions, not with out getting 2b'd.
As for how the sudden change was made. Do you know of all the stuff going on in the back room. I don't. If any of you do, please share. I'm sorry to hear what happened. To have it this close, then yanked away, I'd feel insulted as well. To be perfectly honest, I do not particularly like Critteli, but I DO respect him for what he has done for the wing, and CAP.
For those that are resigning their membership over this, I'm sorry for you. I do what I can to make my piece better than when I found it, no matter what. I don't believe- if I was still in IAWG- that I would have quit if Critteli was CC.
Just because you don't know a person, does NOT mean that they do not have the experience necessary to do the job.
Got a question for you. What do you do if you feel that you made a Mistake that someone will take hard when you fix it? Do you leave it as is and hope for the best? Or do you take the hard road, and do what you think will be the best? I have no way of knowing how Ron will do as CC. Knowing him, I do feel confident that he will get the job done. To be sure, there are people that oppose him, but why don't you just do your job and move on?
Like we used to say:
"The first indication of trouble was the axe hitting the wood underneath my neck."
A grim state of affairs.
GC
Quote from: RogueLeader on January 11, 2008, 04:04:05 PM
As for how the sudden change was made. Do you know of all the stuff going on in the back room. I don't. If any of you do, please share. I'm sorry to hear what happened. To have it this close, then yanked away, I'd feel insulted as well. To be perfectly honest, I do not particularly like Critteli, but I DO respect him for what he has done for the wing, and CAP.
Jeezum Crowe, dude. For one who respects the man, you sure have made it clear you don't like him. A
lot.
I'm saddened to hear that people would leave CAP over this. Admittedly, I've thought about non-renewing for lesser reasons in the past.
The new CC select has a tough row to hoe if key people are gonna split. If anything, I thought the unique way IA operates was a natural deterrent to things like that happening.
Their reasons are their own. Still, the missions don't go away, just good people.
My take on this is that this incoming commander has been torpedoed before ever sitting down at the desk. He might be the best commander in CAP for all I know. But when things are handled like this, for whatever reason, the incoming commander is screwed, blued, and tatooed.
Being a two-time looser commander, I feel for him.
GC
isuhawkeye/cadetprogramguy:
PM's coming....
Johnny Y.
Unintentionally, I am sure, senior CAP leaders have ensured a deep division in Iowa Wing that will last for years to come.
Has there been any explanation of this strange behavior? (but not unprecedented) action; I'm sorry to say I've seen it before, even in NJ, fifteen years ago or so -- new wing CC was selected, announced, then someone did a backroom deal and it got changed....actually, now that I think about it, there were two such occasions -- on the second one, the wing staff essentially mutinied, refusing to serve under selectee, who had been wing CV -- he had a reputation for getting things done, attention to safety & details, all that annoying stuff!)
Some of you will say "we're not entitled to any explanation".
Some of you are very unrealistic! This is going to damage morale, split Iowa Wing, ruin their relationship with the state of Iowa and the NG....what's more, it has put the replacement wing CC in an absolutely untenable position. He's condemned in some quarters before he even begins. It's a 'no win' scenario....if he does well, it will be credited to the prior command team; if he fails, there will be delight among those opposed to his appointment.
I'm not sure that there is a way to heal the harm done here....I fear it will be years before Iowa Wing recovers from this, the passage of time and the fading of memories....and it will have a spillover effect in NCR, and throughout the nation....believe me that politicians, NG officers, and others will talk about CAP's latest self-inflicted wound in places far from the Midwest.
Those who are saying "shut up and soldier" might consider for a moment that this is not a "non-selection" situation, but rather a selection followed by rejection -- in very public circumstances, not only affecting CAP, but other interested parties in the state of Iowa....which is where, you may recall, Nick Critelli lives and practices law.
I wonder if there would be such bitter infighting over these positions if the title was
"State Manager" and the only accoutrement was a plastic name tag??
Maybe we ought to try that for awhile, since there's this big uniform revision going on anyway....all senior members in very plain, very functional uniforms (polo shirts & khaki slacks, or dark blue unadorned flight suits/jumpsuits); functional position titles only ('unit leader', 'group supervisor', secretary, treasurer, quartermaster....the blander the better!)
ZigZag... Well said <lifting my glass of aged beverage in salute>
Not really weighing in on who would have been the better choice.
But from a leadership perspective.......geeze......If I made a major decision like who would be a wing CC and then something changed my mind....as a leader I would be doing two things.
First...I would be contacting the rejected candidate right off the back....even before I notified the new Wing CC.
Second...I would be making the general announcement and I would be explaining why the change.
Do I have to.....no of course not....but as was pointed out....with our a full explanation you damage the reputation of the rejected candidate and you look like a leader who can't make a decisions.
With the political situation as it is right now.....this is very bad for CAP.
I feel for whoever takes over IOWG......talk about walking into a mine field. Half the wing just waiting for you to screw up! If you start putting your foot down you run the risk of a max exodus.
Lots of luck shaggy!
Quote from: lordmonar on January 12, 2008, 12:56:25 AM
Not really weighing in on who would have been the better choice.
But from a leadership perspective.......geeze......If I made a major decision like who would be a wing CC and then something changed my mind....as a leader I would be doing two things.
First...I would be contacting the rejected candidate right off the back....even before I notified the new Wing CC.
Second...I would be making the general announcement and I would be explaining why the change.
Do I have to.....no of course not....but as was pointed out....with our a full explanation you damage the reputation of the rejected candidate and you look like a leader who can't make a decisions.
With the political situation as it is right now.....this is very bad for CAP.
I feel for whoever takes over IOWG......talk about walking into a mine field. Half the wing just waiting for you to screw up! If you start putting your foot down you run the risk of a max exodus.
Lots of luck shaggy!
Jeez!! Did we just shoot ourselves in the collective foot . . . AGAIN!!!! :-[
Quote from: Ricochet13 on January 12, 2008, 01:19:25 AM
Jeez!! Did we just shoot ourselves in the collective foot . . . AGAIN!!!! :-[
Ding Ding Ding! We have a Winner!
No matter how you slice it, this whole thing is embarrasing...
It's high time for a new Region CC who knows what they are doing to avoid creating black eyes like this one.
The way this was handled is an outrage. And I do not know any party involved. The damage to the Wing, and to Mr Critelli may be irrepairable.
May we have more info on this inactive Lt Col? Also on the NCR / CC ??
Geez, I didn't even pay any attention to this thread until just now.
Not knowing any of the players (Lt Col Critelli, being a poster around here, is someone I *knew of* but its not like we've ever traded emails or PMs or anything), its tough for an outsider to gauge whats going on. But from where I'm at, just reading the traffic here, it sounds like Captain Foxtrot just got a promotion to Major.
Either way it goes now is not going to be pretty.
Quote from: cyclone on January 12, 2008, 01:41:35 AM
Quote from: Ricochet13 on January 12, 2008, 01:19:25 AM
Jeez!! Did we just shoot ourselves in the collective foot . . . AGAIN!!!! :-[
Ding Ding Ding! We have a Winner!
No matter how you slice it, this whole thing is embarrasing...
It's high time for a new Region CC who knows what they are doing to avoid creating black eyes like this one.
I just knew it! :o We seemed to have taken even less time and thought in determining the appointment of a Wing Commander than NHQ takes changing uniforms. NO! I'm not turning this into a uniform thread!! >:D
In reading this thread the least the Region Commander should have done was used Tact and Diplomacy and talked to Lt COl Critelli first and explained his reasons for the change. Apparently Mr Critelli has skills better suited for use in the Iowa wing that can benefit the membership and national as a whole. For whatever reasons NHQ had for making the change, it is done. CAP as a nationwide organization is going to have step up the training and get the members fully trained in all aspects of CAP in order to get a qualified pool of applicants to choose from to properly handle these positions..
I give up . . .
:shrugs:
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on January 12, 2008, 01:55:06 AM
The way this was handled is an outrage. And I do not know any party involved. The damage to the Wing, and to Mr Critelli may be irrepairable.
May we have more info on this inactive Lt Col? Also on the NCR / CC ??
The NCR/CC is Col Sean Fagan. He is originally from MOWG and is identified as a Pineda Posse member by RH... (For what that is worth)... As a civilian he is a police office in the St. Louis area. A picture of him is attached. For more on him ncr.cap.gov has some more.
The inactive Lt Col is Lt Col Ron Scheitzach. He lives in Dubuque, Iowa. He joined in 1996 and served as the Commander of the Dubuque Composite Squadron 2 times. His only current ES qual is a Transport Pilot and he is Level 5 complete. At one time I believe the highest ES qual he has achieved was Ground Branch Director. His recent participation in actual ES Missions is considerably less than Lt Col Critelli.
He served as the vice commander under Col Tomlinson initially. He was not behind all of the changes of the re-organization and seemed to be happy with the status quo. He participated in few, if any, of the meetings with state legislators or officials. There were issues between him and several of the squadron commanders and wing staff and he sat as a squadron commander and vice at the same time. He was an integral part of the re-born SUI (Subordinate Unit Inspection) program. These SUI's were described by one squadron commander as "a proctological exam with lit road flares." One commander noted being questioned by him as to why they would send their cadets to the WTA's and rely on the Wing for training (yes, he was the Wing Vice...) With much unrest between him and the unit commanders he left as the Wing Vice around June of 2006 and stayed at his unit.
During his tenures as a squadron commander the unit grew their cadet program, but their ES quals were lacking. Reliability to field full air and ground crews was a problem at various times. During his first tenure their unit lost an airplane due to lack of use. During his 2nd command his unit had very low attendance at WTA's and training and no participation in the OTS. Morale of the unit was low and other issues arose and he was relieved and a Captain was put in his place.
This was approximately last November that this happened. He has not been heard from at the unit or Wing since and was transferred to the Wing 000 Reserve unit. He was a surprise candidate for the Wing CC selection.
removed
Mod warning:
My personal opinion aside, this topic is about to go over the line. So far it hasn't devolved to insults and rumor milling, but it has come very close. Think before you post on this one folks. At this point, it's out there. The outrage has been expressed so if it's going to be read then it will be. There's no need to keep piling it on. Let the corporate side sort this out, and do the best you can with what you're given.
Take the personal stuff to PM, or better yet start planning your unit's next activity.
Regardless of the reasoning, one of our own just took a black eye. My sympathies to you Lt Col Critelli.
And to support fairness doctrine, this is Lt Col Critelli.
He joined in March of 2003 and was billeted as a squadron legal officer. He is from Des Moines, Iowa and is dual billeted as an attorney and barrister. He was a Cadet in CAP in DSM in the 1960's. He is qualified as a GTL, CUL, PIO, and Liaison Officer. He has also served on Eval's as CUL, PIO and LO twice. He has several SQTR cards that he has not turned in yet for other staff positions and has served as LO for many of our missions by working at the SEOC or county EOC to help us liaison with officials. He has served at the JIC (Joint Information Center) on several high profile searches and helped to work with the media and local authorities to inform the public on what CAP has been doing.
He is Level 4 complete, he is Master rated in Comm, and YES MR. HAYDEN he did earn Level 4 the hard way I've seen his file... He was recruited to attend National Legal Officer course in Minneapolis shortly after he joined. He did attend this with NHQ and wing approval. He was promoted to Captain because he was a serving Legal Officer in 2003 after NLO. He was promoted to Lt Col as the Gov't Relations Officer in the summer of 2004. He was reluctantly promoted and tried to stop us because he was not wanting the rank. However, several of us worked with the Wing CC to get it for him.
He has been one of the change agents to help make Iowa Wing's reorganization possible. He has spent numerous hours at the State Capitol helping to get relationships repaired that were damaged by previous administrations and help Iowa get $ to support its maintenance and training. He has invested much of his personal and political capital into IAWG. I was able to be in one of the first private sit downs with the Deputy Adjutant and Lt Col Critelli and survived many of the military briefings to follow. He spent countless hours, to the detriment of his practice, working on the hill and at Camp Dodge to help get IAWG put on the path to where we are.
He helped to develop the OTS (Officer Training School), ICAPA (Iowa CAP Academy - Cadets), the WTA (Wing Training Assembly), Field Grade Transition, the Wing's Virual Headquarters, and our new Wing HQ at Camp Dodge.
He was brought on as the Wing Chief of Staff as we prepared to go into a year long prep for our SAV and CI cycle. When Nick joined in 2003 our "Wing HQ" was a closet at the Iowa City Airport. Yes, I am not kidding it was a closet folks. He helped to get wing's files brought to our Camp Dodge HQ from everyone's home so we could organize the Wing so we would not fail the SAV and CI. After surviving the SAV and CI (with an Eval the month after) he was promoted to Wing Vice Commander.
Please tell me Lt. Col. Critelli didn't really resign over this.
Whether he is qualified for Wing CC is a Region / National call, but regardless he's obviously an asset to CAP.
Would you stick around after getting a big fat ole black eye like that?
Quote from: cyclone on January 12, 2008, 03:30:52 PM
Would you stick around after getting a big fat ole black eye like that?
Honestly, I would stay. I may take a short break to recover my emotional state, no one can really be part of an effective team if they are into the negative side of their emotions.
However, I believe too much in the idea of CAP to really allow personal allowances to ultimately end my participation. I am, by definition, a supporter of the SQUADRON LEVEL anyway. I have learned, in the last year or so, that the political machinations of CAP are what destroy otherwise good CAP officers.
Thus, I can envision two types of Lt Cols in CAP, 1) the WING level one that sacrifices the toils, joys and locality of the SQUADRON to offer administrative services to a GROUP or WING, 2) the FIELD one that is a leader in their SQUADRON. I would like, I think, to be the latter.
Now, getting "thrown out" would be another story.
Quote from: Major Carrales on January 12, 2008, 05:50:51 PM
Thus, I can envision two types of Lt Cols in CAP, 1) the WING level one that sacrifices the toils, joys and locality of the SQUADRON to offer administrative services to a GROUP or WING, 2) the FIELD one that is a leader in their SQUADRON. I would like, I think, to be the latter.
How about a third type - the one that takes the job as a challange to improve their knowledge and skills.
Quote from: arajca on January 12, 2008, 06:08:08 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on January 12, 2008, 05:50:51 PM
Thus, I can envision two types of Lt Cols in CAP, 1) the WING level one that sacrifices the toils, joys and locality of the SQUADRON to offer administrative services to a GROUP or WING, 2) the FIELD one that is a leader in their SQUADRON. I would like, I think, to be the latter.
How about a third type - the one that takes the job as a challange to improve their knowledge and skills.
So be it!!!
When dealing with Congress, especially with those members serving on the House and Senate Appropriations Sub-committees, credibility is, literally, the "coin of the realm." And although individual members come and go, institutional memory in both the executive branch / civil service and the legislature tends to be unpleasantly long.
One element of the "Iowa Experiment" that's garnered a lot of attention here and elsewhere is the support the Iowa National Guard and State government have provided, in both facilities and the six-figure annual funding we've gotten over the last few years. This has, however, created a variety of external stake-holders, with control of money, resources and/or statutory authority, who have a great deal of interest in what's going on with Iowa Wing CAP.
"It's the mission, not the man" is true, within limits, for mature political institutions. However, we haven't been running the "Iowa Experiment" for enough years to establish "six figure CAP state funding" as an administrative norm. The potential for my Wing to suffer significant blow-back as a result of what has occurred over the last few days is non-trivial. Especially given the key personal role Lt. Col. Critelli helped play in the establishment of this relationship, as Government Relations Officer.
As far as Lt. Col. Critelli's personal credibility with the State of Iowa is concerned...well, he is the past president of the State Bar Association, has been admitted to practice in front of the U.S. Supreme Court, and has also been running a successfull law firm with an international clientele for four decades. Given that most state and federal legislators are lawyers, I'll let you draw your own conclusions...
As an infrequent lurker and poster to this discussion board, I just now stumbled across this thread.
I am flabbergasted.
I had the total pleasure to meet Nick Critelli at the Minneapolis National Legal Officers College in 2003. We often sat next to each other and it turns out we had mutual friends in Des Moines. I can easily say without any reservation after my 20 years in CAP he struck me as being in the top ten for smarts, ethics, sense of humor, and interest in CAP's missions.
CAP can not afford to throw away callously his kind of leadership.
Alice
Quote from: The Hawk on January 12, 2008, 07:38:18 PM
One element of the "Iowa Experiment" that's garnered a lot of attention here and elsewhere is the support the Iowa National Guard and State government have provided, in both facilities and the six-figure annual funding we've gotten over the last few years. This has, however, created a variety of external stake-holders, with control of money, resources and/or statutory authority, who have a great deal of interest in what's going on with Iowa Wing CAP.
Spot on. Your observation is 100% correct. There are a lot of high-end stakeholders outside of the CAP structure in Iowa that are depending on Iowa CAP "the Agency." They never would have depended on the old Iowa CAP "the club." Clubs don't get money from the government. Clubs don't get tasked for missions from the government.
The institutional memory of the government is truly long lasting. We found that out when the "Iowa Experiment" began. We had people who had been burned badly by the past administrations of CAP "the club" and it took years of convincing to show them we could be something else. We had to show them through professionalism and show them that we were willing to be trained to a higher level and become stable (which was basically non-existent since our wing operated out of a travelling PO box, a closet in an airport, and a box of files in the back of the Wing CC's staff vehicle). Now the stability is in question. Their questioning CAP and bottom line the question is now "are you going to be a club or will you be an agency?" The answer to that question will determine our future.
There are two ways of looking at this:
1. A tough, but good, decision was made to change the wing commander designee based on some sort of opposition from within the Wing itself. In that case, Iowa people would be happy about the change and all would be well.
2. A bad call was made and it will make a bunch of Iowa people mad in that wanted this person and changing it will get them hopping mad.
The thing is that both could be true at the same time depending on who you are and your point of view. Some people in Iowa are probably happy, some are probably mad about it. While I don't know Iowa, I know that most CAP members don't really care who is Wing commander one way or another. Those who care are on Wing staff and those in squadron commander positions.
The one thing that I think we can all agree on is that naming somebody and then pulling that nomination back makes the upper levels of CAP look very bad, even if it ended up being the right call (generically speaking).
Of course this same situation happens with some regularity in politics. It isn't unusual for a President to name his nominee for a position and then have to pull it back due to overwhelming opposition.
Ladies and Gentlemen- I have always enjoyed visiting CAP Talk and the discussions presented. As anyone who knows me would attest, I seldom ever post a message within any message board unless compelled to do so. In fact, this is my first post within CAP Talk. The situation that is occurring within the Iowa Wing is one that has implications far beyond the boundaries of the state. CAP's national reputation and viability is at stake as everyone within the corporation has a vested interest regarding the outcome of this issue. Hence, my post.
I am the commander of the 91st All Iowa Squadron and a long time member of CAP. I am also a friend of Lt Col Critelli and what I am about to post within this thread are FACTS. I had breakfast with the Lt Colonel this morning confirming these facts. As such, a number of these facts may contradict statements that have already been posted within this thread. The facts of this situation are this:
- Lt Col Critelli has not resigned or quit from the Corporation.
- Lt Col Critelli is feverishly working on damage control, trying to repair relationships with our customers. These customers include the Iowa National Guard, Iowa Department of Homeland Security and others.
As previously stated, this situation is ongoing. As more FACTS become available, they will be publicized.
Customer problems and damage control! The command change hasn't even happened. Wing positions haven't changed so why would any customers be concerned unless someone told them the wheels were coming off the wagon, sour grapes maybe.
Quote from: cyclone on January 12, 2008, 04:46:54 AM
fairness doctrine
I would say that your opinion is hardly fair. You are obviously friends and thus your personal bias is affecting your opinion of the "opponent". That is, are you sure you are being fair in your description of Scheitzach? Is there any one that can verify your opinion of Scheitzach that is either less bias against Scheitzach or just as bias as you are toward Critelli? It is hardly fair to accept one person's opinion as fact when it is obviously bias.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 12, 2008, 04:56:02 AM
Please tell me Lt. Col. Critelli didn't really resign over this.
With people's personal bias here regarding their emotions in this subject, I would have to say that if he did or any one else for that matter resign over the matter, then they do not display "Service before Self". From the information that has been presented, the matter seems to be not held very appropriately. However, all this information is just speculation. Now I know what some of you are thinking "This is not speculation! I have talked with him personally". Unfortunately, unless someone official (for example Critelli himself or those members in this decision) come on here and personally swear to the information, all your information is simply second hand information and may be subject to bias as presented to the audience.
As far as my opinion in the "Service before Self" comment: even though this is probably very emotional for him and should take some time off, does one quit after first unfortunate accident? Or does he put the mission before his personal problems and drive on? Which is the more honorable decision?
Quote from: cyclone on January 12, 2008, 11:31:18 PM
Quote from: The Hawk on January 12, 2008, 07:38:18 PM
One element of the "Iowa Experiment" that's garnered a lot of attention here and elsewhere is the support the Iowa National Guard and State government have provided, in both facilities and the six-figure annual funding we've gotten over the last few years. This has, however, created a variety of external stake-holders, with control of money, resources and/or statutory authority, who have a great deal of interest in what's going on with Iowa Wing CAP.
Now the stability is in question. Their questioning CAP and bottom line the question is now "are you going to be a club or will you be an agency?" The answer to that question will determine our future.
I must ask, why is the stability in question? I am sure that the proper training was conducted. After all, what is the philosophy: always train the person two positions lower than you to take over in the event you are no longer able. Thus, I am sure that some one can step into Critell's position and perform the job. May be not at the same level as Critelli at first, but as with everything over time, the new person should be able to start performing just as well.
Also, I find it hard to believe that the entire stability of the organization rests on one person. Another ideology comes to mind: Ensure that every person in your organization is replacable.
Going back to the resigning thing, what would show a better professional image to the National Guard: Critelli staying in the organization and continuing in his position or him quitting because of a large hole in the road?
Personally, I would have to say that most people's emotions are providing a bias to their decisions on this board. You may have thought highly of Critelli or may have disliked him. However, the new Iowa Wing Commander decision is not the decision of this board. Nor does every one here know enough of the information to make an informmed deicison. We did not witness the phone call, the decision process by the National Commander or the Region Commander, the politics that play at the USAF or the CAP side. All we know is the information presented to us as second hand information.
Is this unfortunate? I do not know. It depends on your side of the coin. However, I believe that may be we should prevent from making speculated guesses as to why Critelli was asked then taken out of the position? As far as we know, any number of options or reasons could be the answer.
Fortunately, or unfortunately perhaps, there are more than two options to the 'change' decision. We can digress into a discussion on exactly how to define all the options, but that would not accomplish much either.
"While I don't know Iowa, I know that most CAP members don't really care who is Wing commander one way or another."
Is Iowa that unusual then, that many Iowa Wing members DO care who is Wing Commander? And many of them are NOT staff members... (I am not)
I suspect that much of it does concern the theme that has been mentioned repeatedly already....the numerous people and agencies that have allowed themselves to trust or rely on IAWG the last few years. Many of the members all around the state have been re-vitalized by the opportunity to work side by side with many of these agencies, to be involved in joint exercises with them, to be able to contribute time and talent to the needs of the people of the state of Iowa. This did seem to be what I understood the Civil Air Patrol to be founded on, and it was exciting to see it actually happening.
The direction of the Wing is determined by the person at the yoke. The other agencies know this too. So do the members of the Wing. There is concern that a person who definitively chose not to be aligned with the "Iowa Plan" would 'turn the plane around' and all those who have tentatively trusted CAP in Iowa would be left high and dry, agencies and members alike. The method in which the selection was made and changed already has damaged that trust.
Quote from: Goliath on January 13, 2008, 12:54:17 AMThe situation that is occurring within the Iowa Wing is one that has implications far beyond the boundaries of the state. CAP's national reputation and viability is at stake as everyone within the corporation has a vested interest regarding the outcome of this issue.
I don't really see how what happens in Iowa matters much beyond Iowa - the majority of CAP members don't know what is going on in other units in their own Group, let alone another state.
This is all anecdotally interesting in a "Hardcopy" kind of way, but beyond that the whole thing is getting tiresome.
Part of what makes Iowa so interesting is the fact that there are many features of the IAWG that are being adopted in other wings- so I have been told. That said, if the good things that are being done in IAWG, are suddenly being reversed; how does that look to others that are looking at Iowa? It doesn't look good, at all.
As a side note, there were not many in 043 that went to the WTA's because it was 4hrs drive each way. I was one of the few that did go regularly. With training only allowed at the WTA's, cadets didn't want to get involved in ES. Also, parents were not willing to go that far for an entire weekend. Also, there were very few new recruits at 043 until the captain took over.
While I haven't talked to Nick in several days, the last I talked to him he indicated leaving CAP, and vacationing for a while.
If he has done or not done the first, i cannot tell, because I do not know.
However, I have a little ELT inside of me that says this ain't over yet.......
Quote from: RogueLeader on January 13, 2008, 02:38:47 AM
Part of what makes Iowa so interesting is the fact that there are many features of the IAWG that are being adopted in other wings- so I have been told. That said, if the good things that are being done in IAWG, are suddenly being reversed; how does that look to others that are looking at Iowa? It doesn't look good, at all.
As I see it, the "IOWA APPROACH" should not become a "COOKIE CUTTER" solution for all wings. Let us not confuse policies and concepts.
I have never held that IOWA WING policies should be grafted or implemented in other WINGS, it simply will not work. (Ever heard the advice "never take another person's medicine?") However, adpating many of the concepts would be valid.
Quote from: RogueLeader on January 13, 2008, 02:38:47 AM
Also, there were very few new recruits at 043 until the captain took over.
Greetings Lt. Seng! Hope you are well.
I would be interested in hearing more from you on your comment above. What, in your mind, was the reason behind this change? IA-043 definitely had a very large presence in a recent OTS class.
Thanks!
Yes The cadet programs guy is very excited about Critelli. He has personal experience, and incentives. Hoe different does that make most who post on this board?
Do his opinions have any lesser value on this board?
Nobody's post is lesser than anyone's else. I was staing my opinion that if "anyone" joins CAP and would quit because of something that doesnt ven involve them over helipng the youths they took an oath to help, well,that just says something about their character.
Quote from: TDHenderson on January 13, 2008, 08:54:22 PM
Quote from: RogueLeader on January 13, 2008, 02:38:47 AM
Also, there were very few new recruits at 043 until the captain took over.
Greetings Lt. Seng! Hope you are well.
I would be interested in hearing more from you on your comment above. What, in your mind, was the reason behind this change? IA-043 definitely had a very large presence in a recent OTS class.
Thanks!
There was only one new FO at 043, FO Snaith. He joined in August, after the end of Oct. When Capt. Sneider took over, he got eight Aviation Students to join. There wer a couple of others that did join before the transition, but their life situations did not allow for them to participate in OTS. It was those nine/ten that participated in OTS. The change was simply that the people that Capt Schneider recruited had the ability to go. From what I have heard, several of those OTS grads have since dropped out.
Quote from: sparks on January 13, 2008, 01:09:35 AM
Customer problems and damage control! The command change hasn't even happened. Wing positions haven't changed so why would any customers be concerned unless someone told them the wheels were coming off the wagon, sour grapes maybe.
I dunno, perhaps having a National Commander suspended, then removed and having to go perhaps an entire year on interim leadership could be an issue.
How about concerns over having a 6 figure budget being controlled by someone outside of their control.
How about being told X was going to be in charge, then the next finding out that someone's mind changed and that Y was selected?
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on January 14, 2008, 03:06:32 AM
How about concerns over having a 6 figure budget being controlled by someone outside of their control.
A CAP Wing Commander is never under the "control", especially from a corporate fiscal aspect, of the Guard or any other outside agency. This would likely be a violation of our charter, 501-C(3) status, and I bet the NEC and Board would have something to say about it.
If you are saying they are/were in IAWG, then there really is a problem...a BIG one. CAP is not for sale.
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on January 14, 2008, 03:06:32 AM
How about being told X was going to be in charge, then the next finding out that someone's mind changed and that Y was selected?
This is SOP in politics, especially at the state level. Another reason why you sell the organization and the capabilities, NOT the people. People are squishy and they die, get sick, and move on to other things, especailly volunteers.
again, the issue is not the people. The issue is the fact that CAP has forcibly removed the last two national commanders. We have overturned nearly every region commander before their scheduled time out. A very well known Iowa leader (GLasgow) is taken out.
In Iowa we claim that CAP is stable and capable. Then One selection board is established, then rejected. Then the second one is created. Then an announcement is made. Then known outside influences announce when and how they will get the decision overturned. Then the decision is overturned.
No matter how you cut it we don't come off as a viable partner, or a reliable volunteer force. And no this type of unprofessionalism is not acceptable in any organization.
Quote from: isuhawkeye on January 14, 2008, 03:37:14 AM
again, the issue is not the people.
Sure, the problem of CAP may not be the people, but the way this argument has been presented, it is. After all, this thread the other thread "CAP-Agency vs. CAP-club: the real issue in Iowa" are related. As cyclone has stated "The present problem involves a clash of philosophies: CAP-Club versus CAP-Agency. Simply put, Ron Scheitzach represents the best of CAP-Club and Nick Critelli that of CAP-Agency." So the way he simply put it, the issue is people.
QuoteIn Iowa we claim that CAP is stable and capable. Then One selection board is established, then rejected. Then the second one is created. Then an announcement is made. Then known outside influences announce when and how they will get the decision overturned. Then the decision is overturned.
From your comments, I read this as the "Iowa Experiment" is failing to produce the proper training to its members. "Outside influences announce when and how" sounds to me that people have either gone through your program or are suppose to are not following proper regulations and protocol. May be it has, may be it has not, but the way you and the others are presenting light on the matter is not exactly helping strengthen your point of view.
And I must ask, why exactly was the selection board rejected in the first place? This just may shed some light onto the subject.
QuoteNo matter how you cut it we don't come off as a viable partner, or a reliable volunteer force. And no this type of unprofessionalism is not acceptable in any organization.
I find it interesting that you claim that Iowa has embraced professionalism. Yet, one of your own members (cyclone) posted this: "I urge our leadership to seriously consider their decision to allow this change of command to proceed. What you do will define your leadership and the future of our CAP." The way I read that, he is claiming that if this change of command (to Scheitzach) is allowed, then the leadership of CAP has been defined for the worse. To me that sounds as though he is calling CAP leaders out. Does not sound to professional to me, let alone respectful (CAP's 4th Core Value)
What I even find more interesting is this: You and the rest of the people that have created this program worked hard. I will not denie that. You have an emotional attachment to the program. After all, I think every one that works hard on any program develops the same attachment. That is perfectly normal. Now you have this new boss stepping into "your" relm that does not like the idea. Has not supported it. You and the others are afraid that everything that you have worked for is in jeopardy. Those that were once top figures in the wing will slowly start to fade away.
Last time I checked, this happens in real life all the time. A new boss comes into the company and does not like how things are being ran. Those that developed that current process defend its existence. Heck, it happens in the military. A new commander or 1SG steps into the unit and does not like the current training program and makes changes or drops it entirely.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 14, 2008, 03:30:31 AM
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on January 14, 2008, 03:06:32 AM
How about concerns over having a 6 figure budget being controlled by someone outside of their control.
A CAP Wing Commander is never under the "control", especially from a corporate fiscal aspect, of the Guard or any other outside agency. This would likely be a violation of our charter, 501-C(3) status, and I bet the NEC and Board would have something to say about it.
If you are saying they are/were in IAWG, then there really is a problem...a BIG one. CAP is not for sale.
The IAWG/CC is effectively in control of a 6 figure budget from the state. You bet your Six they have an interest in who's in Command.
CAP not for sale? What's the CAP Branding campaign then? CAP's always been for sale provided the $$ went to CAP, INC.
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on January 14, 2008, 03:06:32 AM
How about being told X was going to be in charge, then the next finding out that someone's mind changed and that Y was selected?
This is SOP in politics, especially at the state level. Another reason why you sell the organization and the capabilities, NOT the people. People are squishy and they die, get sick, and move on to other things, especailly volunteers.
[/quote]
The only way you build and organizations and capabilities is to 1) Organize the people 2) Train them so they have capabilities. That's what IAWG's been doing.
with a name like who cares you sure have some strong opinions.
I can not defend or speak for anyone else in the wing. I have supported many different wing commanders with many different philosophies. I joined CAP to serve my community. As with every command change I will evaluate the environment and determine what the best avenue is to serve that community.
If training is such and issue, then I am to blame. If the new commander does not think that my programs are successful, then why has he asked me to continue?
Quote from: isuhawkeye on January 14, 2008, 01:16:31 PM
with a name like who cares you sure have some strong opinions.
Sometimes it is more fun to play the devil's advocate. Besides, as some people have done, they post a nice large summary and detailed explanation of Critelli and then a small one of Scheitzach. It kind of sounds like politics and election seasons. I would hardly find this to be fair as people are making decisions based only on what is being presented. Unfortunately, one must question the source of the information especially when it is in opposition of the "new" commander when the person saying it is clearly in favor of the other.
If people are saying it is not one thing yet present it in that light, it is alittle hard to believe them is not? For example, if you claim that X is not about race yet keep talking about race, would you really assume that X is not about race?
QuoteI can not defend or speak for anyone else in the wing.
No you cannot. However, when you post one thing and one of your comrades post something in contradiction, one must question.
QuoteIf training is such and issue, then I am to blame. If the new commander does not think that my programs are successful, then why has he asked me to continue?
As you have said, you and Scheitzach joined about the same time. I do not know what your past accomplishments prior to the "Iowa Experiment" (as everyone seems to be calling it) are. People can have one or two bad accomplishments yet have a whole arena of good ones. A smart commander would look at that and out weight each.
if you follow the early posts on this topic you will see a "see it for yourself" theme. There is no way to sell, or prove this kind of philosophy change with out experiencing it. We have hosted members from across the country. from their experiences many liked what they saw while others did not. eclipse came to iowa. he experienced our program and he developed his own opinions. Those opinions are not the same as mine, but I respect him for making them.
I would invite you to come to our programs. let's get through the change of command and then we will see what's schedueled.
Quote from: isuhawkeye on January 14, 2008, 04:07:00 PM..eclipse came to iowa. he experienced our program and he developed his own opinions.
No, he didn't.
But I have had one pilot from IAWG walk into my (then) squadron and ask to participate in aircrew training and fly our plane because he couldn't get near one in IAWG.
Quote from: isuhawkeye on January 14, 2008, 01:16:31 PM
If training is such and issue, then I am to blame. If the new commander does not think that my programs are successful, then why has he asked me to continue?
Well Sir, anyone in the Business World or the Military Community knows when the new boss takes over, changes are not immediate and hiring/firing is done later on. Really its all about internal continuity. Why would the guy want to create more headache for himself by firing everyone and reinventing everything his first week in. Give it a few months before he starts making changes. That is when the New Wing Kings really start making their Wing their own.
If he comes in and changes everything around on day 1, people will not want to work with him, or support him.
NOTE: In Business, it is usually the way I described above, except for those hostile takeovers and whatnot, that are normally not the "norm".
Today Chief Master Sergeant Chiafos submitted this letter to the Officers of Iowa Wing and resigned due to this situation...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colleagues & Friends of the Iowa Wing:
Although I am assigned to national headquarters, my first love has been, and will always remain, the Iowa wing – and the wondrous people in it. We have stood together through hard times and good. And through the thick and the thin of it all you have earned my admiration, my respect, and my gratitude. We are all seasoned veterans of battles, great and small, to make this wing something special, something never before seen in Civil Air Patrol. I am fiercely proud to have been a part of that, and prouder still to have known and worked with the people who made it happen.
Like Camelot, we had our bright and shining hour, and now the Iowa Experiment is over.
In recent days I have counseled many of you not to quit, to be patient, to let the process work itself out, but I can no longer say it without choking on the words. It has become abundantly clear that CAP is incapable of change, or of even doing the right thing. I have submitted my voluntary resignation to General Courtier, effective immediately.
So our time together is at an end, and I cannot stand with you in a last wing assembly formation, as my presence there would imply credence to what I believe is reprehensible. This is not an issue of personality, but of ethical conscious, and the certainty that honor matters. I had intended to go quietly, without comment, but some smart person said that silence is approval – and I do not approve. But, more importantly, I care deeply about the respect you have always given me, and it would be a shameful day to desert you without warning, farewell, or explanation. I hope you can forgive me for not being there with you, to look you in the eye, to shake your hand, and to say thank you.
I am profoundly shocked by the process, which selected and announced a wing commander, and then un-selected him, and re-selected an inferior and unqualified officer. How and why the original selection process, and the decision on a commander, came to be set aside will probably never see the light of scrutiny – it no longer matters. It is a disgraceful comment on all that is dishonest in CAP.
The damage to Nick Critelli's personal reputation is appalling. Nick's public humiliation had to be explained to the Governor of Iowa, the Commander of the Iowa National Guard Bureau, the Iowa Legislature, and the Department of Homeland Security. This is also our humiliation, a repudiation of that we worked so hard to achieve, an indelible stain on Civil Air Patrol - which will not be soon forgotten or forgiven
I am compelled to speak frankly of my experiences with your new commander, so that you have no false illusions or hope - and they are all depressing. I take no joy whatsoever in what follows, and, try as I may, I can find no kind words for him that will allow me to maintain honesty with you. He vigorously opposed each and every step we were taking toward change. His conduct was so discordant and insubordinate he was relieved as our Vice-Wing Commander. During his tenure as a squadron commander not a single member of his squadron ever participated in a WTA and, again, because of his relentless and very public insubordination, he was relieved of that command. He has not been seen or heard from in this wing for more than a year – till now. He will now demand from you the respect, cooperation, and obedience he denied Colonel Tomlinson.
I bid you all – farewell
Robert Chiafos
Chief Master Sergeant
I'll assume that the Chief's statements about facts are more or less correct, and if so, I have a very hard time believing that someone who has been relieved of duty twice in such a short span of years is being given the nod. If the reliefs had happened 15 years ago under different political situations, it would be one thing, but this is pretty crazy.
He was relieved twice in a year span. Then has been inactive for over a year without a peep to the wing he is about to lead.
Well, frankly I take the "inactive" part much more seriously than the reliefs. We all know that CAP officers get releived primarily for political reasons, not for performance or capability reasons. According to the Chief, the reliefs were apparently for not wanting to go along with the experiment. So, getting relieved because of that doesn't mean someone isn't capable of doing a fine job.
However, going inactive and doing nothing is a strike against you ..... UNLESS you were strongly encouraged by the Wing leadership to lay low, which I suspect is a distinct possibility here.
I have not knowledge of any "duress" applied to lay low so I cannot comment on it either way.
Either way this is the first exit of major players prior to the change of command with, I fear, more to come.
QuoteI have not knowledge of any "duress" applied to lay low so I cannot comment on it either way.
I do not either, however that is a fairly common practice applied to high ranking CAP members who run afoul of a Wing King's program. And, it is sort of common courtesy for a squadron commander to stay out of the way of his replacement for a while too. Gives the new guy a chance to establish his authority, which can sometimes be a little tricky when the immediate past commander is still around saying "If I was still in charge..."
Quote from: cyclone on January 15, 2008, 11:51:38 PM
He was relieved twice in a year span. Then has been inactive for over a year without a peep to the wing he is about to lead.
And yet, CAP leadership believes he is ready for the job as oppose to the other members that applied for the Wing Commander position.
I have monitored the Iowa Wing Experiment for the past year and I have been concerned about some of the changes and how they might affect CAP in general. One of the areas of concern was the NCO program. I could see no need for it and only the possiblity of interference from a different source, specifically NCO's that were being set up as knowing how to administer the program better than anyone else. I have never known an NCO that was worth his/her salt that didn't support a program as presented from above. NCO's have are instrumental in upper level decision making but only to a very limited, if requested way. Officers are managers, and make policy decisions. NCO's are to assist and see that orders/regulations are carried out to a "T", not change things. Now Chief Chiafos has classified himself as being one that takes his bat and ball home when he isn't happy with how the game is going. This does not demonstate the professionalism that was so bantered about in the recent past. JMHO although I have over 30 years of CAP/military experience.
Quote from: capchiro on January 16, 2008, 01:18:08 AM
I have monitored the Iowa Wing Experiment for the past year and I have been concerned about some of the changes and how they might affect CAP in general. One of the areas of concern was the NCO program. I could see no need for it and only the possiblity of interference from a different source, specifically NCO's that were being set up as knowing how to administer the program better than anyone else. I have never known an NCO that was worth his/her salt that didn't support a program as presented from above. NCO's have are instrumental in upper level decision making but only to a very limited, if requested way. Officers are managers, and make policy decisions. NCO's are to assist and see that orders/regulations are carried out to a "T", not change things. Now Chief Chiafos has classified himself as being one that takes his bat and ball home when he isn't happy with how the game is going. This does not demonstate the professionalism that was so bantered about in the recent past. JMHO although I have over 30 years of CAP/military experience.
Knowing Chief Chiafos and having worked with him I find this letter more profound. He has high integrity and for him to issue something like this goes against what I think he would normally ever do. I think he feels obligated to warn the troops of what he feels the impending problems will be and that he feels he would be negligent for not.
The sad part of this is that there is no doubt that the Chief is an honorable man, with good intentions, who was ultimately sold a "bill of goods" by someone who didn't' seem to understand the program any better than he did.
If it happened to any of us we'd have the same response he did.
I have sympathy for his situation, but based on my (amazingly superficial) understanding of the situation don't' necessarily agree with his characterization of the events.
Quote from: cyclone on January 15, 2008, 11:59:45 PM
I have not knowledge of any "duress" applied to lay low so I cannot comment on it either way.
Either way this is the first exit of major players prior to the change of command with, I fear, more to come.
I actually do.
Quote from: cyclone on January 15, 2008, 11:39:31 PM
Today Chief Master Sergeant Chiafos submitted this letter to the Officers of Iowa Wing and resigned due to this situation...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
During his tenure as a squadron commander not a single member of his squadron ever participated in a WTA and, again, because of his relentless and very public insubordination, he was relieved of that command. He has not been seen or heard from in this wing for more than a year – till now.
Really, I attended two as I was able, as were a couple of others. There also happened to be those that only wanted to do their job at the local level, were trained and couldn't afford to go that far for so long. It wasn't until that there were more college members that could go, that did.
Right before Ron was removed, he asked a question pertaining to a Mandatory Safety Academy. Our Safety Officer was the Former Wing Safety Officer. The question was about that all units that did NOT participate would be grounded. He hadn't heard that and was asking about it, and the Chief went off about it. Cyclone and the Chief forgot to mention a critical detail. All Field Grade Officers were relieved of their commands, which were given to Company Grade Officers. The only difference was that Rons' was moved to October, instead of December as planned. It was the Safety issue that forced it forward. if any are interested, I can post all of them here.
Quote from: RogueLeader on January 16, 2008, 02:54:23 AM
Cyclone and the Chief forgot to mention a critical detail. All Field Grade Officers were relieved of their commands, which were given to Company Grade Officers. if any are interested, I can post all of them here.
All field grade officers were removed of command? What was the reasoning behind that? Even in the USAF you will see a squadron commander that is a major. Heck, I have seen army units that have company commanders as a major and the XO as a captain.
if any are interesting, you can post all of what? Sorry, just missing what you are referencing here.
Quote from: cyclone on January 16, 2008, 01:20:22 AM
I think he feels obligated to warn the troops of what he feels the impending problems will be and that he feels he would be negligent for not.
Personally, I would expect out my first sergeant or any SNCO for that matter, to stand there warn the members of any impending problems and help fix them. If he is honestly the Commander Chief of CAP, then would he not have the ear of the National Commander? To walk away now, I feel, is just neglecting the members.
Quote from: cyclone on January 15, 2008, 11:51:38 PM
He was relieved twice in a year span. Then has been inactive for over a year without a peep to the wing he is about to lead.
Guess he took to heart the axiom "Lead, Follow, or get the heck out of the way".
Seems the Chief is also following it.
JMHO
Quote from: cyclone on January 16, 2008, 01:20:22 AM
Quote from: capchiro on January 16, 2008, 01:18:08 AM
I have monitored the Iowa Wing Experiment for the past year and I have been concerned about some of the changes and how they might affect CAP in general. One of the areas of concern was the NCO program. I could see no need for it and only the possiblity of interference from a different source, specifically NCO's that were being set up as knowing how to administer the program better than anyone else. I have never known an NCO that was worth his/her salt that didn't support a program as presented from above. NCO's have are instrumental in upper level decision making but only to a very limited, if requested way. Officers are managers, and make policy decisions. NCO's are to assist and see that orders/regulations are carried out to a "T", not change things. Now Chief Chiafos has classified himself as being one that takes his bat and ball home when he isn't happy with how the game is going. This does not demonstate the professionalism that was so bantered about in the recent past. JMHO although I have over 30 years of CAP/military experience.
Knowing Chief Chiafos and having worked with him I find this letter more profound. He has high integrity and for him to issue something like this goes against what I think he would normally ever do. I think he feels obligated to warn the troops of what he feels the impending problems will be and that he feels he would be negligent for not.
He's way out of line - not that he would be the first in CAP to do that. However, he's not only a SNCO, but he's supposed to be
the SNCO of CAP.
Is this a raw deal? Sure, esp. the yo-yo effect Lt Col C was subjected to. However, being an SNCO is understanding that you don't drive the circus train.
As an SNCO you hold forth your opinions as strongly as you feel is right with the bosses - behind closed doors.
Further, if you can't back the new boss you can get out. You can even announce that you're stepping aside because you can't support the leadership and their change of direction and you want them to have the support they deserve.
Under no circumstances, however, can you get up in front of the troops and say, "well, this new guy's a right rotter and I'm against everything he stands for."
If you're doing that, it'd better be because the new guy is sanctioning torture or planning to overthrow the elected government, because in the military that's really close to inciting mutiny. It's certainly "conduct unbecoming," "prejudicial to good order and discipline" and "insubordinate."
Quote from: Whocares on January 16, 2008, 03:05:57 AM
Quote from: RogueLeader on January 16, 2008, 02:54:23 AM
Cyclone and the Chief forgot to mention a critical detail. All Field Grade Officers were relieved of their commands, which were given to Company Grade Officers. if any are interested, I can post all of them here.
All field grade officers were removed of command? What was the reasoning behind that? Even in the USAF you will see a squadron commander that is a major. Heck, I have seen army units that have company commanders as a major and the XO as a captain.
That is referencing to the Field Grade Transition Program, where all Field Grade Officers are assigned as Wing Staff- meaning that they can only be advisers to a squadron, or hold a "major" staffing slot. The reasoning behind it- as I've been told, is so there . . . um . . . not sure, but it ticked those people off. Our Safety Officer was the former IAWG/SE. He did that for a number of years and got tired of it. He chose to go to ILWG instead of going back to Wing Staff.
Quote
if any are interesting, you can post all of what? Sorry, just missing what you are referencing here.
Sorry, the email cavalcade about the Safety Academy that hastened Ron's removal.
Quote
Quote from: cyclone on January 16, 2008, 01:20:22 AM
I think he feels obligated to warn the troops of what he feels the impending problems will be and that he feels he would be negligent for not.
Personally, I would expect out my first sergeant or any SNCO for that matter, to stand there warn the members of any impending problems and help fix them. If he is honestly the Commander Chief of CAP, then would he not have the ear of the National Commander? To walk away now, I feel, is just neglecting the members.
My feelings exactly. I was not happy when Lt. Col. Scheitzach was replaced, and was seriously considering transferring to ILWG as well, but my duty to the Cadets caused me stay stay at IA-043
and then you left
on second thought no one cares about me.
mods please delete
Quote from: isuhawkeye on January 16, 2008, 04:46:55 AM
and then you left
Yes. I left, but not because of CAP. I left to get out of a relationship that was going down fast. My duty to IA-043 just made it that much harder to do. I did not want to leave, but in order to survive, I had to. It is because of IAWG that helped convince me to keep on living, things were that bad. Thank you to all IAWG.
Just curious. What would you have done if Lt. Col. Scheitzach had been selected, then reversed to have Lt. Col. Critelli in charge?
Quote from: isuhawkeye on January 16, 2008, 04:54:58 AM
on second thought no one cares about me.
I obviously do not have the whole story about what's going on Iowa Wing. Crap like that happens, but CAP still needs good seniors. Even if you're not involved in the CP, there are countless great deeds that any involvement in CAP has helped. Even if you weren't directly involved, you've helped facilitate the development of hundreds of young people.
It's absolutely horrendous that stuff like what's happening in Iowa is happening, but terminating yourself from the entire organization will only hurt it. And I am certain people do care about you.
Quote from: isuhawkeye on January 16, 2008, 04:54:58 AM
on second thought no one cares about me.
mods please delete
Actually I
do care. I know that I haven't taked to you much, but you are a VERY talented person, and i believe that both Critelli and Scheitzach have noticed that as well. I think that the Wing loosing you will be a big blow to all of Iowa. I feel the same way about Nick. We all know how I feel about him, but that does not mean that he doesn't do an extraordinary job.
Wow.......Don't go! You and I have "debated" some in the past, and from every post I read from you, you are a very intelligent person. The organization as a whole does not need to loose you. Keep doing your Job out there, and make the best of the situation.
If you do go, I will be sorry to not get to read very insightful posts.
Anyway, good luck! :)
Well if you try and send your CAPF 2B to Amanda via this fax number (515) 252-41685, you might not get to far. Sometimes it is better to use the correct fax number. I have come to realize that if I use the correct numbers, I, for some odd reason, get better results. (This is all humor since humor cannot be easily transmitted over the internet)
The fact of quitting vs staying is your own business. For that reason, I will not say anything to convince otherwise. So, I wish you a happy freedom, enjoy the time with your new wife.
To remind me of my brothers:
We live in illusion and the appearance of things. There is a reality. We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all
Just always remember:
Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned.
Hey! You can always come play with us on the Eastern side of the Mississippi!
When you are advised that your professionalism is suffering because of what is happening, you make decisions based on what yout need is, not what CAP's needs are.
FYI, i posted this to all officers of IAWG, thought you should all know as well what we lost.
Officers,
I write to you all tonight feeling the need to let you all know what
is happening with our beloved wing in regards to our immeduate future.
I will only tell you what I know, and suffice it to say it is first
hand knowledge.
The relationship IAWH has with HLSEM and IANG is no longer. HLSEM and
IANG view the recent events in Iowa as a symptom of a larger issue and
for that they have decided to pull all funding. Iowa Wing now has NO
MONEY for a budget, other than what USAF and CAP NHQ gives us.
Zero Money equals many things....
No more WTA's, Can't pay for them
No more Hanger rent paid by wing
No more fuel cards in Vehicles
No more "Free" training
VHQ will shut down due to no funding
As far as wing HQ goes, unknown, but remember IANG is not happy with
CAP right now, we may lose our facilities.
There have been 4 highly effective officers and/or NCO's that have
resigned from their commissions due to professional damage.
Everything we have done in the past four years are all gone now.
Look at the bright side though. No more buckets to wear in the field,
and Field grade officers can command squadrons again.
Quote from: RogueLeader on January 16, 2008, 05:12:35 AM
Just curious. What would you have done if Lt. Col. Scheitzach had been selected, then reversed to have Lt. Col. Critelli in charge?
Applauded that the right decision was made.
Lt Col Critelli has been an active member of CAP. Col Select Scheitzach has not.
Wow.....you guys are feaking screwed out there. Because one man doesn't get to be Wing Commander, the State of Iowa decides to cut your funding. That blows of being on "shaky" ground before any of this new stuff broke.
Also that email you sent out, was pure hate. There were no Commissions to resign from, you wrote it to make sure the Iowa Military can equate that "officers" are leaving the CAP because National and Region screwed you over.
I hope your Iowa plan dies a quick death and the new Colonel replaces all of you very quickly.
I am sorry this is happening but you really are spreading gas on a fire out there.
If Iowa NG pulls your funding, your meeting space locations, stops paying for your fuel, etc I really have to believe something MORE was going on in your Wing than what we all have been witness to in the past 2 weeks.
I really feel bad for the Cadets out there. Perhaps your wing should be absorbed into region, and Region should run everything for a few years. ??
It's pure speculation what would have happened had someone other than Lt. Col. Critelli been given the original "nod" for the Wing/CC position. I know that at least one other candidate was well known to State Officials and National Guard personnel, given his service in the State EOC during disaster response missions.
What happened here specifically was a situation where a highly admired and respected candidate for the Wing/CC position, with strong, lengthy and detailed letters of recommendation for the position from an active duty RealMilitary Colonel, an active duty RealMilitary Brigadier General, and the senior state executive responsible for Homeland Security/Emergency Management, had been duly appointed as the Wing/CC, then had his appointment rescinded. After the invitations to state officials and national guard personnel for the change of command ceremony had already gone out.
There already had been concerns raised about the stability of CAP at the National level, given the remarkable series of events that had taken place under the previous National/CC. Fair or not, the abrupt change in Wing/CC appointment is perceived as a clear sign that Iowa's ability to operate as a reliable member of the National Guard and Homeland Security / Emergency Management team can't be assured.
I mentioned in another thread that "credibility is the coin of the realm" when dealing with legislative Appropriations Sub-committees. You don't get six-figure funding of discretionary budget dollars, year after year, without it. No matter how solid the working relationship (and over the last four years it was as good as I've ever seen it in sixteen years of service to this Wing), once it becomes clear that carefully-thought-out multi-year development programs had the potential to be derailed without notice or recourse...well, if you had statutory responsibility for protecting the health and well-being of three million eligible voters, where would you put your limited budget dollars...?
Quote from: mikeylikey on January 16, 2008, 07:35:46 AM
Wow.....you guys are feaking screwed out there. Because one man doesn't get to be Wing Commander, the State of Iowa decides to cut your funding. That blows of being on "shaky" ground before any of this new stuff broke.
Also that email you sent out, was pure hate. There were no Commissions to resign from, you wrote it to make sure the Iowa Military can equate that "officers" are leaving the CAP because National and Region screwed you over.
I hope your Iowa plan dies a quick death and the new Colonel replaces all of you very quickly.
I am sorry this is happening but you really are spreading gas on a fire out there.
If Iowa NG pulls your funding, your meeting space locations, stops paying for your fuel, etc I really have to believe something MORE was going on in your Wing than what we all have been witness to in the past 2 weeks.
I really feel bad for the Cadets out there. Perhaps your wing should be absorbed into region, and Region should run everything for a few years. ??
No, this happened because Region made abrubt changes with out much regard of the future of CAP in Iowa.
Hatred? Nah...Past hate about 4 miles ago.
This is the fifth time I've tried to write something here. Every time I start, I find myself tongue-tied. (Or should it be finger-tied?)
What really troubles me isn't the decision to rescind Col. Critelli's appointment. Like it or not, that's the Region Commander's prerogative. If he chooses to explain why he made the call he made, he will. He doesn't owe anyone (except, perhaps, Col. Critelli himself) an explanation. He certainly doesn't owe anyone below him in the chain of command a reason for his choices. I grant you it would be nice to know all the whys and wherefores, but that isn't the way the military works, and it shouldn't work that way in a military auxiliary.
I'm not really troubled by the apparent decision by Iowa state officials to cut funding for the wing based on that decision. Frankly, if Iowa officials tied their funding to the appointment of any one individual to the Wing Commander slot, I'd be very suspicious of that ... it almost sounds like forces outside CAP want to have a major say in how CAP operates in the state. CAP's command structure should make that call, not non-member political concerns.
I'm not especially concerned with the sudden emergence of the "Club vs Agency" debate. I'm sure this has been on a lot of members' minds for a long time; the Iowa situation just brought it out into the open. (Personally, I think that whole discussion is silly. It's both a club and an agency and that's the way it should be. CAP is what you make it and what you get out of it. But that's my opinion, free and worth what you paid for it.)
I'm not really bothered by the words of IAWG staff who are so torqued off by what's going on that they are leaving their positions (and in some cases leaving CAP completely). Service in CAP does not eliminate the First Amendment protection of free speech, and members have the complete right to vent their spleens in any forum that will allow them to do so. (There are professional concerns that should govern the way we vent those spleens, but the right to vent is not removed once one joins CAP.) In many cases, I understand where you're coming from -- all that time and effort put into the "Iowa Experiment," as it's called here, and you feel that it was all for nought with the Region Commander's decision. I do feel your pain.
It doesn't even overly concern me that some members, in their zeal to say what is on their minds, have crossed perceived boundaries of professionalism and adopted a "I'm-taking-my-marbles-and-going-home" attitude. This, too, is understandable. We are human and react as humans do when things go awry from our perspective.
But what really bothers me is ... we seem to be resorting to personal attacks on each other in this forum because of our reactions to what's going on. That makes me feel bad for everyone.
Was the replacement of Col. Critelli a wise move? I can't say ... I am not a current CAP member, much less a member of Iowa Wing. Any opinion I would have would be just that ... my opinion. And like noses, everybody has one.
Was the reaction of several IAWG staffers justified? To them, I am sure it was. To the rest of us, maybe not. But these things are what they are.
But when we start questioning each others' motives for saying or doing something, we're crossing a line that we may not be able to re-cross. Things get said that can't be taken back.
Proceed with care. Keep the discussions professional, please. I have made a lot of virtual friends in this forum and don't like to see my friends sniping at one another.
Thanks.
Jack
The truth is Governor Culver decided to "red line" some items in the budget. As mentioned before that decision preceded the wing commander selection. This was a typical annual budget process where some programs are deemed to be less necessary than others. So far no explanation has been received about the rational of the cut or whether the House or Senate can restore some or all of the funds, we'll see.
Lacking that money training will have to be adjusted to fit within what is available.
Personal attacks are unproductive and disturbing to read. There are detractors and supporters of every command change. This one brought more acrimony than ever because of the way it was handled. Most people and organizations resist change so it's natural to be pessimistic when it happens. It doesn't justify demonizing fellow CAP members who usually are trying their best to do the job.
I hope this public phase of the Iowa wing beating itself up in public passes quickly.
No, this happened because Region made abrubt changes with out much regard of the future of CAP in Iowa.
Hatred? Nah...Past hate about 4 miles ago.
[/quote]
And yet we keep speculating about decision process. We do not have a clue as to what the rationale was of the deicison. As far as we know, it could have been aliens making deicisons. The point, we are making assumptions that we have no basis to make.
On another note, if I was your state's congress and saw this, yes I would pull funding too. However, not because just one person not receiving the position of wing commander. I would pull it because of the response of the general membership once it was known that he was not going to receive state funding. One person does not get wing commander and every one starts quitting? Yup, seriously unstable organization.
Quote from: mikeylikey on January 16, 2008, 07:35:46 AM
I really feel bad for the Cadets out there. Perhaps your wing should be absorbed into region, and Region should run everything for a few years. ??
(http://i4.tinypic.com/16gzsds.jpg)
Anybody know the line that goes with this pic?
"Nuke the site from orbit. Its the only way to be sure."
Sorry, Iowa Wing, but from out here in the fringes of the country, it seems like all y'all have ceased to exist as an organized entity.
Tell the cadets to 'hold one' for about 60 days and its time to reorganize. Not sure how (the hazards/obstacles are tremendous, I will so admit)...
(As a side note: 103 cadets? I have nearly that many members in my squadron.... Yikes..)
"Hawkeye's resignation" merged.
After the members of the wing adjust to a different commander some may decide it's better to participate than take their ball and go home. Egad, presidents are replaced every 4 or 8 years and the country adjusts to new leadership, certainly the Iowa wing can do the same.
Ids that easy NO, is it necessary YES
I need popcorn with this thread. ;D
To all of IAWG:
I am really sorry to hear that what you have built up has been torn so abruptly away. while I may not have agreed with all of you on certain things, please remember that I agree with most pf the concepts, and that it is not too late to make the concepts work. True, it can not be on the Wing level as before. Tell me why that Dubuque can't work with Davenport or Cedar Rapids. Tell me why that the 2 Des Moines units can't work with Fort Dodge.
You could borrow an OKWG aspect. It's the TTT, Train The Trainer. You have a number of Wing recognized members who meets the standards that Wing wants. That way there can be local training, but yet maintain the standards to be a reliable and relevant force.
I find it nearly impossible to believe that any legislative body could work as quickly as is being insinuated
here. An appropriation as large as this does not appear from thin air, nor does it disappear over night (barring accusations of malfeasance ).
Nor does the state's SAR need change because the Iowa Guv'na doesn't like the new Wing CC. If IAWG is really the important player in Iowa SAR that has been purported, you don't just turn off the juice on a whim. State's everywhere are strapped for cash, and I say, assuming this is true, this was in the works for a while.
Pennsylvania contributes 4-5 times the money to PAWG (last I checked), and they are notorious for lining out the appropriation every year and then "saving" it at the last minute. You can Google for articles on this.
From the way things are being portrayed here, it sounds more like Bryan Berg was the Wing CC during the "experiment".
^ You are correct, PAWG gets much money! And the Democratic Gov. each year cuts it all and the Republicans get it back in. Sometimes they even get more than was originally asked for.
As far as Iowa goes, I agree that this whole thing was in the works a lot longer than suspected. Perhaps that is why the guy who was selected to be Wing King and then replaced last minute.......because Region found out there were "side-deals" or bad mojo going on there. Seriously, the STATE Governments DO NOT RUN CAP! CAP runs CAP.
This whole thing shows that the Iowa Experiment is a total and complete failure. I am sorry that it took 4 years or how ever long was stated above for it to come to light.
I think those that are sending emails out to Iowa, and resigning are showing what type of people are really in Iowa Wing. The "if I can't play by my rules, and you don't do what we say" we will leave and ruin everything for everyone!
I was totally serious when I said Region should absorb Iowa and take over total control. The experiment failed, to be able to recover now and get them back in line with the rest of the Wings now requires outside players. Move all members back to Squadrons, and replace all staff at Wing HQ with region people. Then after the dust settles, and things are starting to get back on track, slowly find members that are deserving enough in Iowa to fill Key Staff Positions.
I just CAN NOT believe this all happened because 1 (one) man was not given Command of the Wing. No one in CAP is that important!
No one person in CAP is THAT IMPORTANT!
2b or not 2b?
------------------------
"To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them?"
I have remind mostly silent about the past weeks events so far. Like many others I have found it difficult to find my footing, with what seems like an endless stream of bad news. I have not commented on these events thus far because I know I have a tendency to respond to such things with too much fire and vitriol, and such things have been in far too much abundance as of late. I feel my head has at last cooled enough, and I have at last found my voice.
The "Old" Iowa Wing is long gone, the "New" Iowa Wing soon to be a memory, a result of not only the recent Wing Commander debacle, but also because of our response to it.
Lt Col Scheitzach is the next Wing Commander. The state funding is no more. These are facts.
The question we are now faced with is, "What comes next?"
Yesterday I had a short conversation with Lt Col Scheitzach about this very point. While I'll leave it to him to lay out most of his plans, there is one point that caught my attention and I feel needs to be shared. It is his intention to listen to the squadron commanders and the membership before he sets policy.
To listen.
Not to "change things back to the way they used to be", just to listen. To take what we the members like about the "New" wing, and improve upon it.
And then I started to realize, to whom would he be listening? To the members who resign their commission before he even becomes Wing Commander? No, for when they left, their voice went silent.
It is the voice of those who remain that will be heard, the voices that must be heard. And so I urge every member to speak to their Commander, and let them know the projects and plans that you feel must be preserved.
Use your voice to help shape the Next Iowa Wing.
And to those in the NG, HLSEM, or any other set of initials that believes CAP is too unstable to be relied upon for missions I say this: we will be here. If in ten, twenty, or thirty years you find yourself in need of help, we will still be here.
The Experiment has not ended, it has Evolved.
I'm Capt Don Wood, Commander of the Des Moines Senior Squadron, and I approved this message.
Quote from: mikeylikey on January 16, 2008, 09:07:36 PM
This whole thing shows that the Iowa Experiment is a total and complete failure. I am sorry that it took 4 years or how ever long was stated above for it to come to light.
I think those that are sending emails out to Iowa, and resigning are showing what type of people are really in Iowa Wing. The "if I can't play by my rules, and you don't do what we say" we will leave and ruin everything for everyone!
I would really have to disagree. While there are aspects of the experiment that I do not like, all in all, it is a great idea. Give it some tweaking, it would be outstanding.
As for the second statement. Those people have worked hard for what was there, and can not stand to see it "disappear." As for the majority of the Wing, they are hard working people. They take the opportunities available, and make the most of them. They are like you. In fact, I know most of the people resigning, and I have no doubt that their decision was not an easy one, nor did they take much joy in the fact that they were doing it. After all, a person can only do so much before they throw the towel in.
In my opinion, they should have stayed, but the decision is not mine. I am sorry that they are leaving the program, and I salute them for having the presence of mind to make the hard call. Semper Vi to you all. You will be missed.
Exactly how big membership wise is IAWG anyway? I mean all this drama because a guy wasnt selected as Wing Commander? IAWG isnt exaxctly a large Wing. I agree with mikeylikey in that I find it hard to phathom that if the state pulled funding just because "there man" wasnt selcted there is something else going on there. Also the people leaving becaue of this, wel, that just says something about them I guess.
Quote from: flyguy06 on January 16, 2008, 10:24:17 PM
Exactly how big membership wise is IAWG anyway? I mean all this drama because a guy wasnt selected as Wing Commander? IAWG isnt exaxctly a large Wing. I agree with mikeylikey in that I find it hard to phathom that if the state pulled funding just because "there man" wasnt selcted there is something else going on there. Also the people leaving becaue of this, wel, that just says something about them I guess.
EDIT: 216 seniors, 103 cadet
250-ish + seniors
100-ish cadets
^ Gained 3 Cadets! Good to go Iowa!
...
Quote from: NIN on January 17, 2008, 12:21:03 AM
Quote from: flyguy06 on January 16, 2008, 10:24:17 PM
Exactly how big membership wise is IAWG anyway? I mean all this drama because a guy wasnt selected as Wing Commander? IAWG isnt exaxctly a large Wing. I agree with mikeylikey in that I find it hard to phathom that if the state pulled funding just because "there man" wasnt selcted there is something else going on there. Also the people leaving becaue of this, wel, that just says something about them I guess.
EDIT: 216 seniors, 103 cadet
250-ish + seniors
100-ish cadets
Are you kidding me? All this fuss over 319 people? FLWG has Groups bigger than that. I am not trying to make light out of it because we need all the "good, motivated" help we can get but I was under the imprsession that IAWG was some super 3,000 member Wing or something
Over the course of the last two weeks I have read about one of CAP's most progressive cutting edge WINGS suddenly shatter. This concerns me greatly.
Are we now to build our local units to the point where we can be shielded from the politics of COMMAND LEVEL should a 'nuclear' optiont ake place?
Many of these events have confirmed my belief that CAP shoud avoid the machinations presented here en re the State Government level. Yes, we must be a good partner to our States, however, once we merge our funding with them we are subject to these sorts of situations. If CAP comes under the National Guard level, we will that 52 Wings more interested in securing State Funding and answering to 53 masters.
Let us not forget that there are still units in IOWA, life MUST go on! CAP must go on. Sure, the funding might be gone or changed, but you people are all STILL CAP.
I don't really have any concept of what the loss has been. I am the commander of a squadron where a good amount of our success comes from member resources. That includes member funding.
We take advantage of WING trainings, but do our best to be autonomous because we are hundreds of miles from the nearest squadron and Group HQ. We are to be a stoung link in what makes TEXAS WING strong. Having Field Grade and Trained CAP Officers and Cadets in the unit is not a "threat to the WINGS plan" but rather a function of it. It is our goal to be an agent of the TEXAS wing in our area. A hub of future growth in our part of Texas and part of the overall plan.
Centralization can have all sorts of benefits, however, it can also leave the arms week. Des Moines, keep going...take your training and trained people and keep the momentum going. I fnot, you will wimper and the IOWA Wing will be finished.
Now is the time for the Iowa wing to come together...there is no alternative but oblivion.
Quote from: Major Carrales on January 17, 2008, 02:44:31 AM
Over the course of the last two weeks I have read about one of CAP's most progressive cutting edge WINGS suddenly shatter. This concerns we greatly.
(speak for yourself) ;D
I've seen this kind of event happen to quite a few wings over the last 15 years and I'm sure it has happened for a long time before that. Wings lose and regain funding. Members get mad, leave and some return. Wing/CC's are appointed then get changed at the last minute. Some get relieved, some quit, some stay, some get extended, some come back after a few years. State Legislatures like then dislike then like CAP. SEMA's like then dislike then like CAP. Such is the way of the world.
IAWG will survive this hiccup. It's OK to be mad or upset about events which don't go as expected. However, I humbly suggest we stay "proffesional" and stay focused on our missions and move ahead.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 17, 2008, 03:40:38 AM
Quote from: Major Carrales on January 17, 2008, 02:44:31 AM
Over the course of the last two weeks I have read about one of CAP's most progressive cutting edge WINGS suddenly shatter. This concerns we greatly.
(speak for yourself) ;D
Ooops, slip of the fingers. ;D
Tags -DCP
Quote from: FW on January 17, 2008, 03:43:05 AM
I've seen this kind of event happen to quite a few wings over the last 15 years and I'm sure it has happened for a long time before that. Wings lose and regain funding. Members get mad, leave and some return. Wing/CC's are appointed then get changed at the last minute. Some get relieved, some quit, some stay, some get extended, some come back after a few years. State Legislatures like then dislike then like CAP. SEMA's like then dislike then like CAP. Such is the way of the world.
IAWG will survive this hiccup. It's OK to be mad or upset about events which don't go as expected. However, I humbly suggest we stay "proffesional" and stay focused on our missions and move ahead.
Well said!
The Iowa Wing Experiment may fade away, sadly, in Iowa, but it is an idea whose time has come.
We need to turn initial senior training into something more substantial than online orientation.
We need to pool our talents and resources within CAP, to rise above parochialism, whether that be inter-squadron rivalry, up to and including lack of coooperation between regions....this cannot, must not continue.
We need to lose the wannabe mentality.
We need to take a long, hard look at our procedures and bring them into the 21st century.
We need to take an equally long, hard look at our constitution, bylaws, methods of self-governance, and processes for selecting senior commanders. Our aim should be to eliminate, as much as possible, cronyism, favoritism, and conflicts of interest.. To my mind , this would include ending the election of the National Commander by those she (or he!) commands and/or appoints (respectively wing and region CCs).
We need to recognize that the instances where CAP will be 'lead agency' on a large mission (e.g., the Fossett search in Sept 2007), will be few and far between....if we do not partner with federal, state and local governmental agencies, as well as volunteer organizations, we're going to be left outside looking int.
We need to care about more than our own squadron, our own promotion, our own back yard. The comments made here about a small wing like Iowa not mattering are unconscionable. Every CAP member matters.
We need to show more patience to one another, more respect for differing views, more willingness to consider the possibility that another perspective may be as valid -- or perhaps even more valid! -- than our own.
We need to quit sniping at one another like spoiled brats, and grow up.
Quote from: flyguy06 on January 17, 2008, 02:23:53 AM
Are you kidding me? All this fuss over 319 people? FLWG has Groups bigger than that. I am not trying to make light out of it because we need all the "good, motivated" help we can get but I was under the imprsession that IAWG was some super 3,000 member Wing or something
Not kidding you at all.
Like I posted in the other thread, I'm looking at a wing that's 5 times larger than mine in area, with about 3 times the population, and its got 1/3 the membership.
While in and of itself that data may not mean alot, in light of other circumstances, it may serve to point out other problems.
The "Iowa wing experiment" isn't going to completely die. The naysayers think it is but I bet the the best of it will be retained within the funding restraints that just popped up. Ironically, the Iowa WTA's had elements of "wannabe" in it. Some like playing Army others don't. It's isn't a problem as long as it isn't the goal.
Local issues trump Wing and National concerns every time. Yes, we should be aware of whats going on outside our communities but we'll get the most impact by keeping local EMA's, fire chiefs and mayors satisfied.
Some issues mentioned can't be solved or even "experimented with" within a wing. The constitution, by-laws, region and wing commander selection etc. are National issues. There's only one corporate officer in each state, the wing commander, so the rest of the wing doesn't vote. the NEC has to tackle those problems.
I don't think CAP will ever be the lead in a large search. We have limited tools whereas state agencies who are paid to do the job can bring much more to the table.
Back in the 1990's an idea surfaced on the NEC that the National Commander of CAP would be appointed by the Commander, CAP-USAF from a list supplied by the National Board. Region Commanders would be appointed by the Region LO from a list submitted by Wing Commanders. The idea never made it to an agenda item. In a sense the Board of Governors should probably appoint the National Commander. The problem is the CAP Corporation has to many CAP top command positions and not enough SecAF voices. Members of the NEC I've talked to say the entire process is to political in electing the National, Region and Wing Commanders. Iowa's change of command may be an example of this. What's needed is to remove the politics in top leadership positions. How this could be done would require a change in the CAP Constitution. But this will never happen since the leadership doesn't want to lose the power they have currently.
"I don't think CAP will ever be the lead in a large search. We have limited tools whereas state agencies who are paid to do the job can bring much more to the table"
As far as I remember, CAP took a lead in at least 2 multi-state sar d/r missions. The first one was during the Mississippi River floods about 10 years ago. We actually controlled the airspace during that period. The 2nd, of course was the Fossitt search. I think we do pretty good with what we have.
THe Iowa wing is not going away. There will continue to be squadrons doing good work. They will do what they are capable of
Quote from: BillB on January 17, 2008, 01:04:40 PM
Back in the 1990's an idea surfaced on the NEC that the National Commander of CAP would be appointed by the Commander, CAP-USAF from a list supplied by the National Board. Region Commanders would be appointed by the Region LO from a list submitted by Wing Commanders. The idea never made it to an agenda item. In a sense the Board of Governors should probably appoint the National Commander. The problem is the CAP Corporation has to many CAP top command positions and not enough SecAF voices. Members of the NEC I've talked to say the entire process is to political in electing the National, Region and Wing Commanders. Iowa's change of command may be an example of this. What's needed is to remove the politics in top leadership positions. How this could be done would require a change in the CAP Constitution. But this will never happen since the leadership doesn't want to lose the power they have currently.
Does anyone remember when CAP was Commanded by an Air Force Officer? Does anyone remember when the Air Force pretty much ran the day to day operations of CAP. Then the Corporate side WANTED all power and we are here today in the state we are in because of it.
Mikey, the period you are talking about was when each Wing had an active duty Liaison staff, Officer, field grade, NCO and secretary. Each Region LO had a USAF aircraft assigned, C-47, Convair or similiar aircraft used to transport staff and cadets to activities, such as AF Museum trips, cadet exchanges among Wings in the Region.
It's doubtful USAF would staff NHQ, Regions and the Wings as the periood you mentioned. And without that staffing, and the Commander CAP-USAF being a General grade Officer, the corporate structure will remain.
The days of having an Air Force staff working with each state must have been great.
Times have changed such that the government contracts out a lot of services that were once government only. CAP could be considered a contractor to the the Air Force but much cheaper than Blackwater or Halliburton. Too bad we can't get some of that money!
We cannot command respect, funding, or "real" status until a couple of fundamental issues are resolved.
1. Customers and potential customers see us as a political oriented rather than a mission oriented organization. Changing horses in the middle of every stream without explanations or published rationale. Sure, every organization on earth has to change horses in mid-stream sometimes, but doing so without discussing it with your important customers is dumb and makes you look bush league. Note: by discussion I do not mean permission but if your company has one important customer without whom you could not survive, you would not treat that customer the way we do ours.
2. Our National HQ is unable to negotiate, interact, or deal with customers on a National Level. The wings are told, go find funding on your own, make agreements, implement programs. Until our "Missions for America" are negotiated at a National Level and then only executed at a state/local level we are doomed to fail. If you had a company with 52 field offices, who all did business in a different way, you would not last long as a company. The key is top-down structure and bottom up implementation, were stuck with bottom up structure and top down interference.
3. Our National leadership is elected by politically connected, self serving, folks. We actually campaign for positions. We must have leadership (National, Region, and Wing) who are selected by somebody besides our own, and are selected based on experience, ability, and demonstrated performance that can stand up to evaluation by our customers.
4. We simply don't look good to customers, military and civilian, because of these issues. If we want to play with the big boys we have to act like them. We must be professional, consistant, above politics, and have solid audit trails which can be explained to customers of why things happen in our organization. Until we do that we remain forever camp followers.
The question has been asked many times on the site, "what is Cap's mission?" We all know the three bladed propeller represents the basic mission of ES Cadet programs and Aerospace Education. The mission question primarily concerns ES. NHQ could negotiate MOU's with each state but I suspect they don't want the added work and responsibility. Therefore each wing is tasked to do that and submit each MOU for approval. That means every wing has a different arrangements with their state. Some seem to easily get money and tasking while others struggle to even get acknowledges by their EMA offices.
NHQ could help standardize this but do you want HQ to get bigger than it already is?
Quote from: isuhawkeye on January 17, 2008, 01:29:34 PM
THe Iowa wing is not going away. There will continue to be squadrons doing good work. They will do what they are capable of
Glad to hear. I expected no less from all the members of IAWG. It is not a nice thing that happened, the Nuke Option, but it happened and I'm glad people are carrying on.
NHQ does standardize MOU's to some extent. And, it is the final approval for all wing MOU's. However, I think the wing is still the best unit when dealing with its respective state. That is why the wing/cc is a "corporate officer" with the authority to obligate (sign for) the corporation.
It is for this reason a wing commander must be selected carefully and mentored and guided during his/her tenure. Trust me, the wing commander is nothing like any other position in CAP. For what its worth, I think the current guidelines for wing/regioncommander selection are good. It would be better however, if it were followed on a regular basis.
Customers and potential customers could care less about our "politics". They care about the ability to provide the service requested in an economical and efficient and successful way. Action and results rule this venue. Some wings do very well, others less. That's is why a healthy exchange of ideas (like on CAP-TALK) is a great thing.
^ That is why I think there is a whole lot more to the funding dilemma and the State of Iowa's stepping back from CAP there.
Only time will tell, and since I don't live there, and know no one there, I can only go on what others are posting.
Quote from: mikeylikey on January 17, 2008, 02:41:11 PM
Does anyone remember when CAP was Commanded by an Air Force Officer? Does anyone remember when the Air Force pretty much ran the day to day operations of CAP. Then the Corporate side WANTED all power and we are here today in the state we are in because of it.
To be fair to the Air Force, there was FAR more to it than that.
There were a lot of legalities, especially surrounding the old "dual-hatted" role of the Commander CAP-USAF as the "Executive Director, Civil Air Patrol."
Why did they get rid of the CAP-USAF staff that ran national HQ? I heard it happened in the mid 90's when CAP and the USAF had some major disagreements the USAF was thinking about putting us in the Coast Guard.
I think the AF people at HQ ended up out the door because of budget concerns. As for the "Coast Guard" proposal, that was the brainchild of Senator John McCain, who wanted CAP shifted to the Department of Transportation. (Not the Coast Guard per se, but the Cabinet department that oversees the Coasties.)
That right there is why I can't vote for McCain. I haven't forgiven him for that insane idea.
Jack
Quote from: ColonelJack on January 17, 2008, 11:09:45 PM
I think the AF people at HQ ended up out the door because of budget concerns. As for the "Coast Guard" proposal, that was the brainchild of Senator John McCain, who wanted CAP shifted to the Department of Transportation. (Not the Coast Guard per se, but the Cabinet department that oversees the Coasties.)
That right there is why I can't vote for McCain. I haven't forgiven him for that insane idea.
Jack
What budget concerns? They were active duty. That Lt. Col is going to get paid Lt.Col pay wheather he is at NHQ CAP or at Hickham AFB.
The AF budgets for x number of Lt Col's. When the ax starts falling, guess which one gets cut first - the one staffing the CAP NHQ or the one staffing the 123 Fighter Wing HQ?
With the discussion of CAP-USAF commanders, USAF budgets, Sen McCain and the Coast Guard, it seems like this thread can be wrapped. If there's a real topic somewhere in the last half dozen or so posts, start a new thread.
Not that you guys are being bad or anything, it's just that time.