Are we Active Duty?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

We are arguing semantics here...if the Civil Air Patrol is an "Official Civilian Auxiliary of the US Air Force," and the US Air Force is a military organization...then it goes to say that there is a gray area here.

When on an AF Assigned mission we are conducting a mission on behalf of and tasked by the USAF.  We are, thus, in a gray area.

Agreed on both points.  Is that why CAP is so fanatical about the colour grey?  Sorry, sir, couldn't resist.

For all intents and purposes of daily operations CAP is strictly Civilian it it's modus operandi, however, one of the key reasons we wear USAF style uniforms is rooted in WWII and the Geneva Convention.

Look at a CAP member from WWII.  There wasn't much distinguishing the pinks-and-greens we wore from the pinks-and-greens the USAAF wore.

Up until the early '90s, when people got bent on this "distinctiveness" bit, we looked not much different from our AF counterparts...collar dogs, hat badges and nameplates were about it.

If we were still subhunting today...and A CAP aircraft was shot down over the Gulf of Mexico by an enemy submarine, then that GRAY area becomes altogehter BLINDING.

Especially if the aircrew survived and were taken prisoner.  My guess is that they would be treated as military POW's and not as civilians.

As an aside...
Why does the idea of the military heritage of the Civil Air Patrol offend some of you so much?  As if it is an insult. 

Sir, if you ever get the answer to this question, I will be very interested to see what it is.

I share your confusion.

Sometimes it seems as if some in this organisation force the issue of "uniform distinctiveness" and trying to make everyone wear polo shirts, then our military heritage will magically disappear, and we'll be all ES, all the time.

[niferous]

No you're not active duty. Or reserve.

You don't need a military ID.

You don't get a military discount because you aren't military.

You don't need ABUs for any reason other than you want them because the Air Force wears them.

You don't need green name tapes on your BDUs either.

How come so many on here say they don't see any "wanna bes" yet it seems every third post we get on here seems to be aimed at giving us something that is nowhere near needed to complete our mission? Instead all it would do would give us the APPEARANCE of being the Air Force.

[CAP4117]

I view it more as paying respect to tradition and our parent service. YMMV
Edit: As someone mentioned on another thread, I think we all know that we're not the Military.

[AngelWings]

No you're not active duty. Or reserve.

You don't need a military ID.

You don't get a military discount because you aren't military.

You don't need ABUs for any reason other than you want them because the Air Force wears them.

You don't need green name tapes on your BDUs either.

How come so many on here say they don't see any "wanna bes" yet it seems every third post we get on here seems to be aimed at giving us something that is nowhere near needed to complete our mission? Instead all it would do would give us the APPEARANCE of being the Air Force.

Flawed logic. If we are wannabe people for wanting a USAF uniform, than you too are a wannabe. Wannabe different than a USAF organization. It is a USAF organization, what is wrong with wanting to look like Big Blue? We don't NEED to have a current uniform, military styled ID, or military nametapes. But we sure as hell WANT them. I'm sure if you shot a picture of everything you owned I could pinpoint a bunch of things you don't need, or if you told me everything you wanted I could show you what you don't need. The biggest thing is though is that if you want something to be different in your job, with your house, your pay, your car, what ever, we don't call YOU a wannabe for it. All of us are most likely wannabe rich people, wanting more money than we currently have. It is alright to be a wannabe.

Also, what is "the mission"? We have three missions, Cadet Programs, ES, and AE. IIRC Cadet Programs was a USAF styled program designed to introduce cadets to military leadership and the USAF. Not to recruit, but to educate. One of the staples of Cadet Programs is the uniform. We wear the USAF style uniform. It has been that way since my dads fathers brother was in CAP in the 50's. Why do you all the sudden want to change a longstanding tradition for a reason that seems to us to be completely unrelated to the Cadet Programs?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Also, what is "the mission"? We have three missions, Cadet Programs, ES, and AE. IIRC Cadet Programs was a USAF styled program designed to introduce cadets to military leadership and the USAF. Not to recruit, but to educate. One of the staples of Cadet Programs is the uniform. We wear the USAF style uniform. It has been that way since my dads fathers brother was in CAP in the 50's. Why do you all the sudden want to change a longstanding tradition for a reason that seems to us to be completely unrelated to the Cadet Programs?

Because ever since the mid-90's, a small but vocal faction wants to make us more and more "corporate," and diminish the connection with the USAF altogether.  I hate to say it, but they are succeeding.

Many of these same members want us to be all ES, all the time, and chaos take AE and CP.

The attitude of benign neglect (and I'm being generous) from the AF does not help.  It should also be noted that they have no problems with ROTC/AFJROTC wearing the ABU (with green tapes), and they are no more "military" than we are.  They also do not have any problem with SDF Air Units wearing AF blues with only a different nameplate, hard rank, and ABU's with green tapes.

It would do well for some of these overzealous restate-the-obvious about us not being military (I have never, in almost two decades of CAP, met a CAP member who put us on that same level) to remember that we once looked much more like the Air Force, and no-one had a problem with it until the actions of a few fools in the late '80s.



I fear these days are gone, and they're not coming back.

[a2capt]

Are We Not Men!?! We Are <not> A.C.T.I.V.E.D.U.T.Y.

[bflynn]

What is that?

[johnnyb47]

What is that?

When a question comes along, you must google: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Devo.JPG

[bflynn]

Oh thanks, I had managed to forget about them....

[Slim]

Oh thanks, I had managed to forget about them....

Some of us couldn't be that lucky....


</drift>