CAP and H1s

[davidsinn]

Not so much now, but I have.

I need 4wd to get out of my freaking driveway some days. No joke. You get out of the city and the plows take the better part of a day to get everything. Having some 4wds scattered around an area up in these parts would be prudent.

So, since CAP generally doesn't have 4wd you're saying that we've been totally unable to field ground teams on a regular basis due to snow problems?

No, I'm saying it could impact ops if the conditions are right. We haven't had many sorties in this area that weren't related to summer storms in quite a while.

[Pump Scout]

I always thought the HMMWV was one of the most dangerous vehicles we could put on the road... and that was during my time in the Army. Having had to drive them on many occassions through a wide variety of conditions from heat to snow to rain and just about everything in between, I have to confess there were plenty of times I thought the least that would happen would be that I'd take out several civilian vehicles. They're terrible on ice (I had mine 90° sideways on a narrow city street once - very scary), loud on highways, awful at the pump, and garbage for seating capacity and comfort. Granted, out Econolines can't mount a .50 caliber or Mk19, but that's not really part of the mission.

About the only thing I found they were pretty good at that translates vaguely to CAP was their ability to run through water up to the hood, and the ability to climb some seriously steep grades. Just doesn't seem to justify the expense of acquiring and operating the beasts.

[NCRblues]

Not so much now, but I have.

I need 4wd to get out of my freaking driveway some days. No joke. You get out of the city and the plows take the better part of a day to get everything. Having some 4wds scattered around an area up in these parts would be prudent.

So, since CAP generally doesn't have 4wd you're saying that we've been totally unable to field ground teams on a regular basis due to snow problems?

My wing has 4 ford SUVs and a ford truck that has all wheel drive.... Im pretty sure the wing next to us has at least that many as well.

[rustyjeeper]

I always thought the HMMWV was one of the most dangerous vehicles we could put on the road... and that was during my time in the Army. Having had to drive them on many occassions through a wide variety of conditions from heat to snow to rain and just about everything in between, I have to confess there were plenty of times I thought the least that would happen would be that I'd take out several civilian vehicles. They're terrible on ice (I had mine 90° sideways on a narrow city street once - very scary), loud on highways, awful at the pump, and garbage for seating capacity and comfort. Granted, out Econolines can't mount a .50 caliber or Mk19, but that's not really part of the mission.

About the only thing I found they were pretty good at that translates vaguely to CAP was their ability to run through water up to the hood, and the ability to climb some seriously steep grades. Just doesn't seem to justify the expense of acquiring and operating the beasts.

******** you missed something- as a former MP I can state with personal knowledge that you can string up a hammock inside for a snooze in the field, which could be beneficial at times 

[RiverAux]

Not so much now, but I have.

I need 4wd to get out of my freaking driveway some days. No joke. You get out of the city and the plows take the better part of a day to get everything. Having some 4wds scattered around an area up in these parts would be prudent.

So, since CAP generally doesn't have 4wd you're saying that we've been totally unable to field ground teams on a regular basis due to snow problems?

No, I'm saying it could impact ops if the conditions are right. We haven't had many sorties in this area that weren't related to summer storms in quite a while.

If the snow and ice conditions are so bad that the only way to get around is in 4wd the chances are that they are too dangerous to be driving around in 4wd either -- at least for CAP operations.  If someone wants to leave their house in 4wd to go to the grocery store (or their job for that matter), thats up to them but its pretty much a no go for CAP.  Its one thing if you're doing it in a vehicle you drive every day and for which you fully understand its capabilities and limitations, but quite another for a CAP vehicle that you probably haven't driven for months and chances are have never driven in really bad conditions. 

[niferous]

We don't need them at all. If any old military vehicles would come in handy I'd say the CUCV would seem like a better fit.

I will however say that I was in the Army and my unit has more HMMWVs assigned to it for field use than any other unit in the whole US Army (seriously, we had a plaque in the motor pool NCOs office from GM for it). I've ridden a whole bunch in those things and they are far from comfortable but are purpose built and work well in the field. I've heard from some people who are still in that they're not even allowed outside the walls now in Afganistan though because the IEDs have gotten bad enough that it takes out even the up armored ones easily.

As far as the maintenance goes I don't agree that they're a nightmare. With proper training and maintenance they can be extremely reliable. The problem most guys have with them, that served in the military, is that they drove HMMWVs that had been driven before by young kids with an invincible attitude and maintained by mechanics with a "that's good enough" mentality.

[Ford73Diesel]

This would be cool. I don't think CAP could get the EPA exemption to run the diesel pickups as they have no emissions stuff on them.....


http://olive-drab.com/idphoto/id_photos_lssv.php

[abdsp51]

I know of a unit that used a few old CUCVs and they ran solid. 

[Cliff_Chambliss]

This is silly.  Frankly, why the CAP doesn't get some old M-114's or M-113's for off road work I don't know.  Oh-Wait, the M-114 Recon Vehicle, light, fast, Chevy 283 cu in engine, fun to drive but had some real problems in Vietnam getting over rice patty dikes head on, so forget about these and go with the M-113.  Gas and Diesel variants were made, the M-113 can carry a load of people (and supplies) has great off road capabilities, and if CAP is ever called on to help quell civil unrest, the 113 can even mount an impressive array of weapons (see M-113 ACAV).  But as I grew up (or older, I can't remember which) the Cav and my tastes changed.  Clearly an M-1 Abrams won't be of much use to CAP but what about the M-2/M-3 Bradley?  What about the OH-58D Kiowa?
  I remember seeing in National Geographic Magazine a story of some CAP Squadrons in the 1950's located in Fl, SC, and NC near the swamps that had a few CAP DKUW's (I think that's what they were called) wheeled amphibious vehicles for use in swampy areas.  If these had been a sucess, CAP would still have them (same as with the 0-1's, T-34's, L-20's and such the USAF gave the CAP in the 1960's).  CAP needs equipment that can do the job, and inside the lower 48 states (Alaska being somewhat different) that means commercially available vans and pick up trucks and maybe an old school bus here and there converted into a mobile communications central.  Only paint the CAP Emblem and an ID # on the roof so CAP Aircraft can identify the correct vehicle on the road enroute to an event site. 
  Meanwhile, the toys of my youth, the M-114's, M-113 ACAV's, OH-58's, and such will reside in museums, memories, and as models on the bookshelf - where they now belong.

[Private Investigator]

FTFY.

H-1s are one of the vehicles specifically forbidden for CAP use/ownership for these reasons:

a. They are VERY expensive to buy and maintain.

b. They are totally impractical for CAP use for reasons stated above.

+1

CAPR 77-1 sec 1-6

[Spaceman3750]

Given the choice between a vehicle even the military didn't want any more and a 7 pac van or SUV with 10-30k on it, I'll take the latter every time.

[Major Lord]

My Squadron had a CUCV for years, and it was solid as Sears. Major problems were hard to source ( 24 Volt) parts, and no air conditioning, and only enough room for 2-3 passengers. I wonder if the people who want HUMVEES have spent any time in the real vehicle? ( as opposed to the civilian HV) It rides like a skateboard, its noisy, uncomfortable, and lots of sharp widgets inside to bang your knees, knuckles and elbows on. They are very fatiguing to drive . In Northern California, a 4 X 4 is ideal for our snowy Sierras, and low altitude wet lands, and deserts. I would much prefer a Civilian Suburban ( not the diplomatic protection service variant with a pop-up mini-gun, although it would be great for road rage.....) Lots of room for passengers, gear, and it has nuclear heating and A/C to help you stay alive after you have been toasted or frozen in the bush. Passenger vans are good for cadet programs and UDF missions, but they are not all weather machines.

Major Lord

[Flying Pig]

Hummers are maintenance nightmares. As a heavy machine gun section leader and Plt Sgt I had 8 of them.   CONSTANT Mx......and expensive Mx to boot.

[arajca]

A few years ago, the AF decided they were not going to support (pay for maintenance) the CUCVs any longer. Therefore, CAP returned them to DLA (fmr DMRO).

[SarDragon]

I have a 4WD 'Burb, and I love it. Driven reasonably, I average almost 14 mpg, and it's got 107,000 miles on it. Just barely broken in. Seats 8, or 5 with lots of gear. Tows 5500 pounds. $45K+ out the door is a bit of a turn-off though.

As for buses, we can't have those either. They had maintenance and licensing issues. The stuff CAP got from the AF was pretty thrashed, and required a lot of upkeep.

[Spaceman3750]

$45K+ out the door is a bit of a turn-off though.

You weren't turned off at "14 mpg"?

[SAR-EMT1]

Absolutely no need for an Hummer.

Would not be opposed to a 4x4 quad-cab pickup or a 4x4 SUV.

[AirDX]

Meanwhile, the toys of my youth, the M-114's, M-113 ACAV's, OH-58's, and such will reside in museums, memories, and as models on the bookshelf - where they now belong.

Aw, you left out my favorite... the Gama Goat.

[SAR-EMT1]

I know several local Scout camps that still use the goat. ( surplussed from Chanute AFB to local councils when the base closed in the early 90's)

Took a ride on one a few times. . . Although I shudder to think what a PITA maintaining them was / is.

[♠SARKID♠]

I don't see what you guys are on about, I think its a great idea.