Bed Roll, inflatable?

[AngelWings]

Would an inflatable bed count as a bed roll? I am setting up my equipment for some CERT team/Ground team display, and was going to do a "try on our gear" thing. I have two bags, a MOLLE II patrol pack w/a MOLLE II waist pack on the bottom, and a Tactical Tailor MALICE bag that is heavily based off the large ALICE pack. I cannot fit in an old army sleeping bag into or on either other. My next option is to try to get an inflatable bed or just do without having a sleeping bag.

[Eclipse]

Inflatable bed?

It can be anything you feel comfortable sleeping in or on.

Generally it's a sleeping bag, but it needs to be able to keep you warm and dry at night.

[AngelWings]

Inflatable bed?

It can be anything you feel comfortable sleeping in or on.

Generally it's a sleeping bag, but it needs to be able to keep you warm and dry at night.

I see. Thank you.

[GroundHawg]

The "new" army sleep systems or a snugpak both have compression systems. You can put a snugpak jungle bag (good for summer only) into a buttpack. I have one and it fits nicely in my malice pack claymore pouch. Both systems can be found for under $100.

[bflynn]

The thing to think about with an inflatable bedroll is insulation.  The main purpose of the bedroll is to keep you warm from the ground, not to make the ground soft.  Air is not a very good insulator, so an inflatable bedroll is inferior.

[RogueLeader]

The thing to think about with an inflatable bedroll is insulation.  The main purpose of the bedroll is to keep you warm from the ground, not to make the ground soft.  Air is not a very good insulator, so an inflatable bedroll is inferior.

Having used both the traditional bed roll and the inflatable, they both keep you off the ground. The inflatable is more comfy. It is not inferior. IMHO.

[bflynn]

I'm echoing what I was told from REI when I asked about inflatable ground pads.  Since camping gear is their business, I presume they know more about it than either of us.

I suppose the success of a air mattress depends on the ground temperture.

[AngelWings]

Where I live, it is somewhat cool out right now but is getting warmer and warmer. The New England weather in the summer can get scorching hot with some wicked humidity. Keeping warm shouldn't be a huge problem right now.

[RogueLeader]

I'm echoing what I was told from REI when I asked about inflatable ground pads.  Since camping gear is their business, I presume they know more about it than either of us.

I suppose the success of a air mattress depends on the ground temperture.

I'm echoing my ground team and military experience. If you rely only on a pad, you are going to get cold regardless. Why not make yourself more comfortable?

[Eclipse]

Thermarest self-inflating mattresses are pretty much the standard.

They have a new one which reflects body heat.  I know a lot of people who have them and are very happy with them.

[AngelWings]

Understand this, I do have a military sleeping bag (ECW made in '82 w/o a carrying case) but I cannot for the life of me figure out where or how it would go on my MALICE pack.

[lordmonar]

I'm echoing what I was told from REI when I asked about inflatable ground pads.  Since camping gear is their business, I presume they know more about it than either of us.

I suppose the success of a air mattress depends on the ground temperture.

I'm echoing my ground team and military experience. If you rely only on a pad, you are going to get cold regardless. Why not make yourself more comfortable?

The key is....a closed foam mat IS using air as an insulator. 
The advantage of closed foam mats over an air mat is that they don't leak.

Having been camping, ground teaming, militarying for over 30  years now.....the SUPERIOR one is based on YOUR situation.

A closed cell mat will not leak, does not need to be blown up every night.....but it is fairly bulky in the backpack.
An airmattress is more comfortable, packs tighter......but if it leaks you are SOOL!

I use a hybrid air/foam matress.....it has the advantages and disadvantages of both.  It requires to be blown up and purged each use, it takes up more space in my pack then an airmattress but less then a foam pad.  If it leaks there is still a foam liner to provide insulation......and it is more expensive then both.

YMMV.

[lordmonar]

Understand this, I do have a military sleeping bag (ECW made in '82 w/o a carrying case) but I cannot for the life of me figure out where or how it would go on my MALICE pack.

Well....depending on your climate situaiton.....there may not be any need to carry a sleeping bag.

Your 72 hour gear almost never leaves the van and/or mission base.
I don't ever carry my sleeping bag with me into the field unless it is high winter (here in Nevada that means Jan-Feb).

Also....everything does not have to IN to your back pack.  You can stow your sleeping pad and sleeping bag on top of your pack with bungie cords, P-Cord, or straps.

[AngelWings]

Understand this, I do have a military sleeping bag (ECW made in '82 w/o a carrying case) but I cannot for the life of me figure out where or how it would go on my MALICE pack.

Well....depending on your climate situaiton.....there may not be any need to carry a sleeping bag.

Your 72 hour gear almost never leaves the van and/or mission base.
I don't ever carry my sleeping bag with me into the field unless it is high winter (here in Nevada that means Jan-Feb).

Also....everything does not have to IN to your back pack.  You can stow your sleeping pad and sleeping bag on top of your pack with bungie cords, P-Cord, or straps.

I have my sleeping bad on the bottom of my pack and my tent on top of it. The sleeping bag is MONSTER. I put it into my MALICE pack and it took up the whole space! I have no clue how I'd go about putting on my pack without it slapping me in the head everywhere I go.

[Eclipse]

I have the same one - I used to have it in the bottom of my CFP-91, but it's way too
heavy for hiking, etc.

Ditto on Lord - 72-hour's going to be in the van or at camp.  I just pack all the base gear in a large parachute duffle and call it a day.

Everything else is in hard containers except for the 24.

[AngelWings]

I have the same one - I used to have it in the bottom of my CFP-91, but it's way too
heavy for hiking, etc.

Ditto on Lord - 72-hour's going to be in the van or at camp.  I just pack all the base gear in a large parachute duffle and call it a day.

Everything else is in hard containers except for the 24.

So it would be okay if I threw mine into a parachute bag and left it at base? And if I were to be getting signed off on anything and they were inspecting all of my gear, I wouldn't get in trouble? Because honestly I'd love to leave the thing at mission base.

[Eclipse]

So it would be okay if I threw mine into a parachute bag and left it at base? And if I were to be getting signed off on anything and they were inspecting all of my gear, I wouldn't get in trouble? Because honestly I'd love to leave the thing at mission base.

This is what the manual says:

2) The 72 hour pack is designed to help you live in the field for more than one day. It includes your sleeping bag, tent, and other long term comfort items. The 72-hour pack is not subject to uniformity -- color and size does not matter. The major constraint is how much you can carry. Even if the mission is only expected to last one day, you should always bring your base gear. You never know how long a mission will last, or whether you will go straight to another mission from the current one.
b. For your equipment to be effective, you must ensure it is clean and serviceable. Occasionally you will have to replace items such as medicine, batteries or food because it has passed its expiration date.
c. You must be able to carry all your equipment at once, in case you must "hike in" to a mission base.
Normally, this means leaving room in your base gear pack to stow all of your field gear.
d. Ensure your gear is properly secured -- nothing should be flapping loose where it could snag in the brush or bang against your body when moving.

As long as what you have meets those general specs, no one should require anything else.  If you wing happens to have a supplement that is different,
then you'd need to comply with that.

I don't think any wings have a "hike-in" requirement, but if they do, then likely your equipment and training will be a bit different, and you'd already know
about it.

My "tent" falls into several categories:

CAT A
8-foot box with 3 full-sized racks, internal lighting and air conditioning.  It comes with a 5kw generator, a cook stove, refrigerator, and a gas furnace.
It has served multiple roles, including a small ICP, but is difficult to fit into a back pack.

CAT B
10-man, 3-season team tent.  This weighs about 30 pounds and is also difficult to fit into a back pack.

CAT C
4-man tents included with our ICP trailer.

As I generally am part of the ICP staff and have to run a chunk of missions, I have 4+ hard cases that go as well which have everything from printers to
caffeine breeder reactors.

YMMV.

Bear in mind, also, that there is no requirement that you own a single piece of equipment for GTM - only that you display it properly during tasking and
that you have a set for a mission.  An SET should not be checking for nametags.  There are plenty of units which have shared gear that members
grab for a mission, adding in only a few personal items and consumables like water and food.

I can tell you from experience that the above will fulfill the needs of the vast majority of real-world missions East of the Mississippi, and going pretty
far West as well.  If you operate in places human beings don't belong, then there may be different requirements.

[lordmonar]

If you are going to insist that each individual has to pack in their 72 hour gear.....then you have to consider weight saving issues.

A five man ground team.....only needs one 5 man tent to support them or five one man tents (or similar divisions).

Now....I don't go tell my guys to go out and each buy a $100 tent.  Instead we bring one large tent and if we have to pack it in.....we divide the weight up.

As for your sign offs......get with your GTL and figure out what he/she wants YOU to have.

It is good that each member has a tent with them (at the inital rally point) but there is ZERO need for each individual to pack in a 5 man tent!

Same goes with the sleeping bag.  You should have one that is rated for all the weather conditions that you may encounter in your AOR.....but there is no need to pack in an artic sleeping bag to the desert in July!

Each wing does stuff differently....so again....check with your chain of command to see how they want to do it.

[AngelWings]

Just to make sure this is clear, I am making this a display for a family day/fundraiser event where my squadron and I were hoping to display CERT gear and GTM gear so families can see what we pack and how it feels if they so choose to pick it up. I am used to not having to carry a tent or sleeping bag, but for this event I want people to feel the weight of what we pack and get the just of why we have it. I usually never use my 72 since I am personally a CERT team member and just got qualified as a MSA.

[bflynn]

The key is....a closed foam mat IS using air as an insulator. 
The advantage of closed foam mats over an air mat is that they don't leak.

Closed cell foam is my preference too.  When I was camping a lot, I carried a ccf roll and a collapsable cot.

[Eclipse]

Just to make sure this is clear, I am making this a display for a family day/fundraiser event where my squadron and I were hoping to display CERT gear and GTM gear so families can see what we pack and how it feels if they so choose to pick it up. I am used to not having to carry a tent or sleeping bag, but for this event I want people to feel the weight of what we pack and get the just of why we have it. I usually never use my 72 since I am personally a CERT team member and just got qualified as a MSA.

I wouldn't even bother with the 72.  Just display the 24.

[RogueLeader]

I use ccf pad because I have it from my army days, and I'm too cheap to buy another one.

[AngelWings]

Just to make sure this is clear, I am making this a display for a family day/fundraiser event where my squadron and I were hoping to display CERT gear and GTM gear so families can see what we pack and how it feels if they so choose to pick it up. I am used to not having to carry a tent or sleeping bag, but for this event I want people to feel the weight of what we pack and get the just of why we have it. I usually never use my 72 since I am personally a CERT team member and just got qualified as a MSA.

I wouldn't even bother with the 72.  Just display the 24.

I was going to do just do the 24, but I promised a full 72, so I have to follow through.

[SarDragon]

The thing to think about with an inflatable bedroll is insulation.  The main purpose of the bedroll is to keep you warm from the ground, not to make the ground soft.  Air is not a very good insulator, so an inflatable bedroll is inferior.

Not true. Air, when kept from circulating, is actually a pretty good insulator. It is the primary insulator in most clothing. The fabric traps it, and prevents the circulation.

[Eclipse]

The full ride includes skivvies and socks, but who would know what's in a closed duffle?
Pack it with a couple blankets and print a nice list of what should be in there.

[AngelWings]

The full ride includes skivvies and socks, but who would know what's in a closed duffle?
Pack it with a couple blankets and print a nice list of what should be in there.

That's a great idea!

[lordmonar]

The full ride includes skivvies and socks, but who would know what's in a closed duffle?
Pack it with a couple blankets and print a nice list of what should be in there.

If you want to simulate the weight....find out how much your gear weighs...then chuck in a couple of water bottles, bricks, or dead weights to simulate the full load.

[ol'fido]

The full ride includes skivvies and socks, but who would know what's in a closed duffle?
Pack it with a couple blankets and print a nice list of what should be in there.

Actually the two blankets would be the definition of a bedroll. Before there were store made sleeping bags, campers used bedrolls. These were two-three blankets folded together so that they mimicked a sleeping bag type shape. They were held together with "blanket pins", overlarge safety pins made for the purpose. You can still find them sold at mountain man rendezvous and F&IW encampments.

The old GI sleeping bags are great until they get wet as they are mostly down. The trick is to be very careful and try to roll them as tight as possible. I would suggest that unless you are getting into serious backpacking and camping, that you go to Walmart or Target and buy a Coleman mummy bag rated to about 20* F. That will be good to about the mid-30*s. Always add 10*F to the rated temperature of the bag to get the real rating at which the bag will be comfortable. You can add 10-20* to a bag by buying an inexpensive fleece bag and use it as a bivy sack.

The Thermarests are  good. i would stay away from an regular air matress unless you are sleeping in a building somewhere. Just don't fill it up all the way. Leave a little give so that your body can form to the mattress.

If you can't figure out how to attach this bag to your pack, I would suggest that you find somebody who is field savvy and have them inspect your gear. i say this because it sounds like you may be carrying too much weight just from what you've said.

My .02. YMMV.

[AngelWings]

The full ride includes skivvies and socks, but who would know what's in a closed duffle?
Pack it with a couple blankets and print a nice list of what should be in there.

Actually the two blankets would be the definition of a bedroll. Before there were store made sleeping bags, campers used bedrolls. These were two-three blankets folded together so that they mimicked a sleeping bag type shape. They were held together with "blanket pins", overlarge safety pins made for the purpose. You can still find them sold at mountain man rendezvous and F&IW encampments.

The old GI sleeping bags are great until they get wet as they are mostly down. The trick is to be very careful and try to roll them as tight as possible. I would suggest that unless you are getting into serious backpacking and camping, that you go to Walmart or Target and buy a Coleman mummy bag rated to about 20* F. That will be good to about the mid-30*s. Always add 10*F to the rated temperature of the bag to get the real rating at which the bag will be comfortable. You can add 10-20* to a bag by buying an inexpensive fleece bag and use it as a bivy sack.

The Thermarests are  good. i would stay away from an regular air matress unless you are sleeping in a building somewhere. Just don't fill it up all the way. Leave a little give so that your body can form to the mattress.

If you can't figure out how to attach this bag to your pack, I would suggest that you find somebody who is field savvy and have them inspect your gear. i say this because it sounds like you may be carrying too much weight just from what you've said.

My .02. YMMV.

It's a little heavy. If I took a picture and showed it with everything attached/packed on/in it, do you think you could point out where to put it? The bag is relatively small, and I am trying to make it work so I don't have to have a huge backpack on me.

[ol'fido]

All we can do is try.