Pre-Screening new Applicants

[abysmal]

Had a SAREX here over the weekend and the opportunity to chat with some other Squadron leadership. Came across and interesting policy on new Cadets.

The Squadron has 86 cadets in it, so its large and healthy.
For the most part they do not have the space for any more Cadets.
So...

They have a program where a new would be cadet shows up and is put into a Basic-Applicant flight for (6) weeks of pre-member instruction and drill. At the end of the 6 weeks they are given a test. If they pass, then and only then are they allowed to fill out the new member paperwork and apply. If they fail, they have two options. 1 drop from the program and never be seen again. 2 Recycle back through another 6 weeks of boot camp and then test again.

The advantages were explained to me as..
1. Only getting very high quality cadets.
2. Only processing membership paperwork once every 6 weeks
3. Weeding out anyone who is not highly committed to the program.
4. Not having the main flights have to deal with new recruits on a weekly basis.
5. Senior NCOs have regular training opportunities and are able to rotate into and out of the training flight.

Thoughts???

[MIKE]

They have a program where a new would be cadet shows up and is put into a Basic-Applicant flight for (6) weeks of pre-member instruction and drill. At the end of the 6 weeks they are given a test. If they pass, then and only then are they allowed to fill out the new member paperwork and apply. If they fail, they have two options. 1 drop from the program and never be seen again. 2 Recycle back through another 6 weeks of boot camp and then test again.

While screening prospective members through a Membership Review Board is an excellent idea, I'm a little weary of having non-members participate actively in unit meetings while in such a probationary status given the legal issues... Providing enough of a taste of what the program offers so that a prospective member can make an informed decision before making the commitment to join is enough of a reason for CAP to provide for such a probationary program with appropriate limitations on participation which protects both CAP and the prospective member.

6 weeks seems like a long time to be in limbo to me... JMHO.

[CAPSGT]

The legal issue is the first thing that jumped out at me when I read this.  It's one thing to run something like this with your new members, and many squadrons do.  If NHQ were to get a complaint from a disgruntled parent asking why their son/daughter is being put through "boot camp" in order to join, I don't think they would be too terribly thrilled. 

The idea of a program like this to train new members is nothing new.  A quality program will teach them everything they need to know to get them started, and can also complete all of the requirements for the curry achievement.  That way, the regular flights are getting cadets who have already earned their first stripe, and have a bit of an idea of what is going on.

[abysmal]

Spell out some of the legal issues the both of you see.
That was not one of the things that I had even considered.

[MIKE]

Spell out some of the legal issues the both of you see.
That was not one of the things that I had even considered.

I just checked the CAP Knowledgebase to try to find more information on why non-members should not participate in CAP activities.... I did not find an answer specific to the question at hand which spells out the possible liability issues involved with non-member participation... I did find one post about expired members participating in activities... It states that expired members are no longer members of CAP and may not participate in activities even if their renewal is being processed.

I think NHQ CAPs intent is that prospective members must join before they may participate in CAP activities... A few meetings attended as an observer supervised by CAP members might be acceptable, but perhaps thats a question best left for CAP JA?

[acarlson]

Had a SAREX here over the weekend and the opportunity to chat with some other Squadron leadership. Came across and interesting policy on new Cadets.

The Squadron has 86 cadets in it, so its large and healthy.
For the most part they do not have the space for any more Cadets.
So...

They have a program where a new would be cadet shows up and is put into a Basic-Applicant flight for (6) weeks of pre-member instruction and drill. At the end of the 6 weeks they are given a test. If they pass, then and only then are they allowed to fill out the new member paperwork and apply. If they fail, they have two options. ...
Thoughts???

I know this is an "aged" thread... but it's new to me and as I'm seeking out new input and comments on the Great Start program... I came across it... yes, I'm sure I want to reply... and no, starting a new topic would not be appropriate ...  so here goes:

What about splitting the cadet squadron?  when an AA meeting gets "too big"... even if it is "healthy" ... it splits into 2 meetings... maybe held the same night... maybe a different day/time...  that way everyone can work it, and no one gets lost... or refused to join.

...  at the very least why not direct the newbie cadets to a neighboring squadron?  win - win ?

[RiverAux]

I think it is typical to ask prospective cadets to come to a few meetings before putting in an application, but actually starting them in a training program of some kind probably takes it a little too far.  This would actually be where an application of the pipeline concept makes sense...just tell the cadets to come back at the start of the next training cycle.  Some will, some won't and you'll only have to do paperwork every so often. 

Splitting a unit up?  Maybe, but it really depends on whether you've got enough seniors to really run two different units.  I think the 86 cadet squadron is unique enough that most of us don't have to worry about facing that situation.  Usually we don't have enough Officers to manage the cadets we have. 

[NIN]

I tend to think that having prospective cadets attend 6 weeks worth of meetings would be something beyond the liability coverage proffered to those "just standing around and looking."  They are now there "at your demand," versus someone who showed up and was curious.

In my unit, we have a fairly strict policy that prospective members cannot attend anything other than the normal meetings until they possess an ID card. Period.

This is part of the reason you have real property surveys and that it is IMPERATIVE that you keep your unit's meeting location information up to date via the CAPF 27.  You're more or less covered by CAP "at your normal meeting location & time" if something stupid happens to a non-member.  Not so if they are at a time or location outside of that specified on the CAPF 27 as the unit's meeting times & places.

[mikeylikey]

Not accepting a cadet because he or she does not "pass" this 6 week orientation training goes against everything we (CAP) stands for.  Take everyone in and give them the opportunity to learn and better themselves. 

[afgeo4]

Option 3 should and HAS to be another squadron they could join OR perhaps this squadron should think about splitting into two.

You shouldn't just tell a cadet she/he cannot join CAP. Don't forget, the reason for that cadet's failing may be accredited to his/her instructor. Also, we are not an "up or out" program. The cadet program is specifically designed to be a self-paced one. You cannot just tell a cadet they have a limited amount of time to master a skill.

[Fifinella]

Also, we are not an "up or out" program. The cadet program is specifically designed to be a self-paced one. You cannot just tell a cadet they have a limited amount of time to master a skill.

Except that 52-16 says:

c. Failure to Progress.  Cadets who fail to progress in the Cadet Program by completing
at least two achievements per year may be terminated from the program (see CAPR 35-3,
Membership Termination).

[afgeo4]

Also, we are not an "up or out" program. The cadet program is specifically designed to be a self-paced one. You cannot just tell a cadet they have a limited amount of time to master a skill.

Except that 52-16 says:

c. Failure to Progress.  Cadets who fail to progress in the Cadet Program by completing
at least two achievements per year may be terminated from the program (see CAPR 35-3,
Membership Termination).

We're talking about short term progress here (6 weeks?). Also, I urge you to find me a unit commander who has taken such action based on this regulation without there being underlying issues with the cadet such as behavior, etc. This reg gives commanders an option of terminating membership, it is not the automatic action.

[NIN]

We're talking about short term progress here (6 weeks?). Also, I urge you to find me a unit commander who has taken such action based on this regulation without there being underlying issues with the cadet such as behavior, etc. This reg gives commanders an option of terminating membership, it is not the automatic action.

I have to agree here.  The "non-progression" provision for termination is one of the most "totally ignored" aspects of the regulations.  Yes, you *could* terminate a cadet for non-progression (better have a chain of counseling, etc, behind that CAPF 2B for non-progression)

But you're not going to bounce someone out after 6 weeks.

That's crazy talk!

[Flying Pig]

I think that idea is idiotic!

It must be nice to have a program where you are trying to find ways of discouraging people from joining!  Maybe they should put that same effort into getting them into the program, and THEN start teaching them.  And who approved and designed this Pass/Fail Test?

I'd love to have a cadet come to my unit and tell me they failed the "boot camp" at Sq XXX and were forced to leave.  I wasnt aware that units could tailor their membership criteria?  Why dont we have a Sq criteria saying only cadets enrolled in AP Math and Science classes can join.  Since we are only looking for the "highest quality cadets".

As far as booting cadet members for not promoting........

If they are no trouble, and enjoy the meetings, then let them stay.  Im not saying we should not encourage advancement, and usually, seeing their friends advance is enough to kick them into gear.
I have seen may cadets who just enjoyed being a part of the group and like being flight members and had no aspirations of promoting.  My younger brother was a C/SAmn after 3 years. Loved CAP.  Now hes training to be a CFI.   I had cadet in my last Sq who was in for 5 years and left at age 18 as a C/SSgt when she joined the Air Force.  Another had such a bad reading disablity that we sought permission from higher up to read him his tests.  He never made it past C/Msgt.  But was a great kid.

Here is a different take on the issue.  There was a recent article in the Volunteer about a 13 year old C/Col.   Do you think she learned anything more from the program than a career 17 year old C/CMsgt with 4 or 5 years in?  You never hear anyone discourage moving up to fast. 

Personally, I was in CAP for 6 years and didnt go past C/2Lt. With 2 Region Drill Comp victories and 2 NCC 2nd place Comps under my belt.  I had friends I literally joined with on the same night, who made it to C/Lt. Col and C/Col.  Was I a drain on the Program? 

I have read many posts from Seniors where they openly claim that a cadet who doesnt move up moves out.  Why?  Are you hurting that bad for the chair?  If you have a kid who never promotes, leave him/her in rank appropriate positions and when they get tired of it, they'll move up, or leave on their own.



****Let me throw this in.  Im not confronting anyone with my questions.  Just trying to play a little devils advocate.*****

[MIKE]

You never hear anyone discourage moving up to fast.

If you haven't heard it, then you haven't been on here long enough... or read some of my old posts. 

[Flying Pig]

  OK.."never" probably wasn't the right word.  Seldom discouraged. But I think there was a little more to my post than that one line.