GTM3 Task: 24 Hour Pack

[winterg]

I'm interested in how some of the more experienced Emergency Service Officers handle signing off on Task O-0001 for GTM3.

-Task O-0001 falls under the Fam & Prep tasks of GTM3.

-Signing off on Task O-0001 means the student has completed the task IAW the Ground & Urban Direction Finding Team Tasks.  This means they have a complete 24 hour pack.

-A student needs to have all Fam & Prep tasks signed off and have CC approval before proceeding to the Advanced Tasks in Trainee (T) status.

-BUT-

-According to the Task Guide, a Trainee (someone who has completed the Fam & Prep tasks) is only required to have the items marked with a "T" on the equipment list while working on the advanced tasks.

-If you sign off on Task O-0001 in the Fam & Prep Tasks for the student with required Trainee "T" items, there is nothing that makes the student prove they have actually acquired the items in their 24 Hour Pack.

-If you require the student to have a complete 24 Hour Pack to sign off the task as written, then there is not actually a provision to allow the student to train with minimal items.

Do you sign off the task while they only have "T" items?  For people that are training with me it is not an issue, but people in our Group train a lot at other squadrons in the area due to the large number of SAREX's every quarter here.  Wouldn't it make more sense to have a Task under Fam & Prep for the "T" items and a second Task in the Advanced section for the complete kit?

[lordmonar]

You are mistake about the designation of TRAINEE.

One is a TRAINEE the minute the Commander signs off that the Prereqs are done and the enter into training.

They do not have to complete the FAM & PREP to be trainees.   They need to have completed the FAM and PREP in order to assigned to a supervised position on a SORTIE during a mission. 

[winterg]

You are correct, they are a trainee once the Prereqs are met.  But they do not enter Supervised Trainee status with a 101 qualification of *GTM3 until the Fam & Prep are completed.  This is what I was referring to.

b. Once trainees have met the prerequisites, they will be required to complete familiarization and preparatory training for the specialty before serving in that position on actual or training missions under supervision. Familiarization and preparatory training is the minimum set of tasks that the member must master prior to acting as a supervised trainee on practice or actual missions. These tasks represent those skills that will keep the member safe and allow the member to function under supervision without jeopardizing the mission. This requirement avoids placing personnel not ready to perform certain jobs or those who work for them at risk.

So following this, a Trainee cannot participate in a SAREX as a Supervised Trainee while only in possession of the "T" marked items.  As it is done in every squadron I have ever participated in.

[lordmonar]

You are correct, they are a trainee once the Prereqs are met.  But they do not enter Supervised Trainee status with a 101 qualification of *GTM3 until the Fam & Prep are completed.  This is what I was referring to.

b. Once trainees have met the prerequisites, they will be required to complete familiarization and preparatory training for the specialty before serving in that position on actual or training missions under supervision. Familiarization and preparatory training is the minimum set of tasks that the member must master prior to acting as a supervised trainee on practice or actual missions. These tasks represent those skills that will keep the member safe and allow the member to function under supervision without jeopardizing the mission. This requirement avoids placing personnel not ready to perform certain jobs or those who work for them at risk.

So following this, a Trainee cannot participate in a SAREX as a Supervised Trainee while only in possession of the "T" marked items.  As it is done in every squadron I have ever participated in.

No....they can participate in SAREX....with less then the full gear.  That is what the task guide says.

They can complete their training and participate in SAREXs with less the full load. 
Once they complete their training they must have their full load in order to participate in a SAREX or Mission.

And of course the GTL and GBD both have the option to limit participation by trainees based on the specific situation/terrain/mission etc.

[winterg]

You are correct, they are a trainee once the Prereqs are met.  But they do not enter Supervised Trainee status with a 101 qualification of *GTM3 until the Fam & Prep are completed.  This is what I was referring to.
b. Once trainees have met the prerequisites, they will be required to complete familiarization and preparatory training for the specialty before serving in that position on actual or training missions under supervision. Familiarization and preparatory training is the minimum set of tasks that the member must master prior to acting as a supervised trainee on practice or actual missions. These tasks represent those skills that will keep the member safe and allow the member to function under supervision without jeopardizing the mission. This requirement avoids placing personnel not ready to perform certain jobs or those who work for them at risk.
So following this, a Trainee cannot participate in a SAREX as a Supervised Trainee while only in possession of the "T" marked items.  As it is done in every squadron I have ever participated in.

No....they can participate in SAREX....with less then the full gear.  That is what the task guide says.
They can complete their training and participate in SAREXs with less the full load. 
Once they complete their training they must have their full load in order to participate in a SAREX or Mission.
And of course the GTL and GBD both have the option to limit participation by trainees based on the specific situation/terrain/mission etc.

Yes, the Task Guide says that the GTM3 Trainee can participate in a SAREX with only the items marked with a "T".

BUT the SQTR has the task listed under the Fam & Prep tasks which are required to be completed prior to participating in a SAREX.  To sign off the task as completed, the trainee must have a complete 24 hour pack.  This means, as the SQTR is written, the trainee must have a complete 24 hour pack before participating in a SAREX.

[almostspaatz]

'Complete Task O-0001 (Prepare ground team individual equipment)'

This would be the minimum amount of gear (trainee list).

[winterg]

'Complete Task O-0001 (Prepare ground team individual equipment)'
This would be the minimum amount of gear (trainee list).

Not true.  If you read the evaluation requirements for Task O-0001, in order sign the task as complete, the trainee must present all items for the 24 Hour Pack.

[lordmonar]

Well....I would just suppose that we have been doing it this way for since forever.....that that is probably the right way to do it.

If you feel really really strongly about it.....you can always make suggestions up your chain to fix the wording in the task guide.

[almostspaatz]

I'm just saying that is how it is being implementing currently, I am not saying that is necessarily what the wording means nor trying to assume what the original intent was.

Thats just how most people deal with it.

[TexasBEAST]

Do you sign off the task while they only have "T" items?

Yeah, I would say that you have to. Will the database even let you move a trainee on to the Advanced training without inputting something for all of the Fam tasks first?

You need to document that they completed their Trainee tasks. So you need to sign off for their partial gear load.

Wouldn't it make more sense to have a Task under Fam & Prep for the "T" items and a second Task in the Advanced section for the complete kit?

Absolutely. My K9 group has its own internal certification levels for flankers/ground searchers that dovetail in with the NASAR SARTECH certifications. The introductory level corresponds to a SARTECH III or GTM 3, for which our group requires the NASAR Urban SAR Ready Pack; which includes less stuff than the full-bore SARTECH II SAR Ready Pack (~GTM1). So we have to sign off for a gear check for every certification level.

It's akin to GTL requiring additional leader and team gear, as a different task #.

They're essentially separate tasks for Trainee/Fam and Qualified/Advanced, even though the publications give the appearance of being the same numbered task, forever and ever, amen.

Maybe the tasks should read O-0001T (for Trainee) and O-0001Q (for Qualified)?
O-0001F (Familiarization) & O-0001A (Advanced)?

NHQ should've seen this coming when they expanded GTM into GTM3/2/1, and made provisions within the SQTR task lists, accordingly.

MSgt Harris has the right of it:
1. Short-term solution is to cite GBD or GTL discretion on all GTM-Q's participating in ground ops.
2. Long-term solution is to send a recommended change memo up the chain.
3. Compromise: maybe bypass the red tape of #2 by attending NGSARS and discussing the issue with the man himself, Lt Col Long.

[Storm Chaser]

You are correct, they are a trainee once the Prereqs are met.  But they do not enter Supervised Trainee status with a 101 qualification of *GTM3 until the Fam & Prep are completed.  This is what I was referring to.

b. Once trainees have met the prerequisites, they will be required to complete familiarization and preparatory training for the specialty before serving in that position on actual or training missions under supervision. Familiarization and preparatory training is the minimum set of tasks that the member must master prior to acting as a supervised trainee on practice or actual missions. These tasks represent those skills that will keep the member safe and allow the member to function under supervision without jeopardizing the mission. This requirement avoids placing personnel not ready to perform certain jobs or those who work for them at risk.

So following this, a Trainee cannot participate in a SAREX as a Supervised Trainee while only in possession of the "T" marked items.  As it is done in every squadron I have ever participated in.

No....they can participate in SAREX....with less then the full gear.  That is what the task guide says.

They can complete their training and participate in SAREXs with less the full load. 
Once they complete their training they must have their full load in order to participate in a SAREX or Mission.

And of course the GTL and GBD both have the option to limit participation by trainees based on the specific situation/terrain/mission etc.

That's not entirely correct. Prerequisites must be completed and approved before initiating training. But in order to be in a supervised trainee status (* on 101 card), a member must complete all Fam & Prep and get the corresponding commander approval. That is required to work on that specialty in a mission and WMIRS will not recognize the member as a trainee without Fam & Prep completed and approved (see CAPR 60-3, Para. 2-3).

Now, members only require GES to participate in a mission such as a SAREX, but the scope of what they can do is limited (they can't be assigned to a ground team, for example). It's a bit different when participating in a formal school such as NESA.

The (T) in the Task Guide is somewhat problematic. On the one hand, Task O-0001 states that trainees are only required to have the items with a "T". And on the other hand, the member must have all required items in order to get the sign-off, which is part of Fam & Prep and required to become a supervised trainee.

It's very possible that this is a carryover from a previous version of the regulation (the Task Guide is from 2004 and the task from 2001). Or this may refer to the minimum equipment required to initiate Fam & Prep training, before becoming a supervised trainee. Either way, the Task Guide is currently being revised and should (hopefully) correct this apparent inconsistency.

The bottom line is this, a ground team member must have Fam & Prep to participate in missions as a GTM3 supervised trainee. And in order to be in that status, the member must have all the required gear (no just the "T") in order to get Task O-0001 signed off and Fam & Prep complete.

(edited for grammar)

[Spam]

The original language comes from the Maryland Wing task book (same size/form factor, to fit in a BDU trouser bellows, but a bit thinner and had a yellow cover) back in the mid/late 1990s, based on the Army's Manual of Common Tasks. The MDWG GT Task Book served as one of the source documents for the 2001 GT task book. Former MDWG/CC COL John Kilgallon and Kevin Redmond were the leads on it and did most of the work as I recall. I remember going over the draft gear list, but I mostly did the land nav tasks (complete with a couple of typos which appear to have made it to the current manual). Bear in mind, the original MDWG task book was structured around a single GTM qual, not a trifecta, nor did it envision the prep/fam/advanced/CCs permissions issues, so some of those could bear revision.

Some of y'all may remember the "T" cards we used to have (CAPF 101T), which is where the "T" references came from.

Yes, some revision seems in order for many of these tasks. When and if any effort ever gets underway at a national level, I'd be interested in being on the team again.

V/R,
Spam

[Ed Bos]

I have heard that some clarified guidance will be issued in a new version of the task guide.