Community Service Ribbon Question

[Holding Pattern]

There is an individual in my squadron that does community service outside of the US 1 month out of each year (rebuilding really bad countries.) As far as I know, that person has never applied for a community service ribbon. Should that time they spend in another country doing this apply towards that ribbon? Does it apply to the full time they are there?

[Holding Pattern]

Argh, and I put this in the wrong forum somehow. Can someone move it to the right one?

[Storm Chaser]

CAPR 39-3 doesn't make a distinction. As far as I'm concerned, community service is community service regardless of the location. As long as the member can provide the required documentation, the ribbon can be awarded. Only the time worked and certified should be credited toward the ribbon.

[kwe1009]

CAPR 39-3 doesn't make a distinction. As far as I'm concerned, community service is community service regardless of the location. As long as the member can provide the required documentation, the ribbon can be awarded. Only the time worked and certified should be credited toward the ribbon.

That is how I handle this.  I have a cadet that goes on a mission trip to a foreign county each year and the hours that he worked are counted toward the ribbon.  I did have one cadet that tried to include the entire time he was gone as community service but after a brief discussion he understood that he was only supposed to count the hours he worked and not the plane ride, etc.

[Garibaldi]

CAPR 39-3 doesn't make a distinction. As far as I'm concerned, community service is community service regardless of the location. As long as the member can provide the required documentation, the ribbon can be awarded. Only the time worked and certified should be credited toward the ribbon.

That is how I handle this.  I have a cadet that goes on a mission trip to a foreign county each year and the hours that he worked are counted toward the ribbon.  I did have one cadet that tried to include the entire time he was gone as community service but after a brief discussion he understood that he was only supposed to count the hours he worked and not the plane ride, etc.

Yeah...counting time spent sitting on a plane, in the can, in bed, eating, watching TV....that counts. Riiiiight.

[Гугл переводчик]

Somethings telling me court-ordered community service would not count... but then again 39-3 is pretty vague.

[almostspaatz]

Somethings telling me court-ordered community service would not count... but then again 39-3 is pretty vague.

Is there something you need to tell us? 

[Storm Chaser]

Somethings telling me court-ordered community service would not count... but then again 39-3 is pretty vague.

While CAPR 39-3 doesn't specifically address that, I believe the intent of the ribbon is to reward volunteer community service, which court-ordered service is certainly not. As a commander, I would not approve it.

[Гугл переводчик]

Somethings telling me court-ordered community service would not count... but then again 39-3 is pretty vague.

Is there something you need to tell us? 

On the advice of my counsel, I respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right, and decline to answer that question.

And Storm, I agree, just wanted to see what others did. Thank you!

[TheSkyHornet]

This question has come up several times, but I never know the answer and usually the conversations turn into a debate---

Does prior community service count for the Community Service Ribbon's requirements, as in that person did some of their service, as verified through a letter, before joining CAP?

[Garibaldi]

This question has come up several times, but I never know the answer and usually the conversations turn into a debate---

Does prior community service count for the Community Service Ribbon's requirements, as in that person did some of their service, as verified through a letter, before joining CAP?

Gray area. I'd be inclined to say no, since it happened before (think about trying to get a lifesaving award for something you did before CAP). But, honestly, if it passes the CC's scrutiny, I'd be glad to eat my hat.

[THRAWN]

This question has come up several times, but I never know the answer and usually the conversations turn into a debate---

Does prior community service count for the Community Service Ribbon's requirements, as in that person did some of their service, as verified through a letter, before joining CAP?

I rescued two people from a burning house before I joined CAP. Should I get a SMOV?

[Garibaldi]

This question has come up several times, but I never know the answer and usually the conversations turn into a debate---

Does prior community service count for the Community Service Ribbon's requirements, as in that person did some of their service, as verified through a letter, before joining CAP?

I rescued two people from a burning house before I joined CAP. Should I get a SMOV?

Only if your name rhymes with....ummm....well, nothing rhymes with HWSNBN, honestly.

[kwe1009]

This question has come up several times, but I never know the answer and usually the conversations turn into a debate---

Does prior community service count for the Community Service Ribbon's requirements, as in that person did some of their service, as verified through a letter, before joining CAP?

Definitely not.  No organization is going to give you an award for something that you did before you joined them.  From an ethical standpoint I couldn't justify it either. 

[THRAWN]

This question has come up several times, but I never know the answer and usually the conversations turn into a debate---

Does prior community service count for the Community Service Ribbon's requirements, as in that person did some of their service, as verified through a letter, before joining CAP?

Definitely not.  No organization is going to give you an award for something that you did before you joined them.  From an ethical standpoint I couldn't justify it either.

Sadly, this question comes up more than it should. How the Hades do people think that they can justify giving an organization's award for actions that we not performed as a member of that organization?

[lordmonar]

This question has come up several times, but I never know the answer and usually the conversations turn into a debate---

Does prior community service count for the Community Service Ribbon's requirements, as in that person did some of their service, as verified through a letter, before joining CAP?

Definitely not.  No organization is going to give you an award for something that you did before you joined them.  From an ethical standpoint I couldn't justify it either.

Sadly, this question comes up more than it should. How the Hades do people think that they can justify giving an organization's award for actions that we not performed as a member of that organization?

Because the Community Service Ribbon is for actions performed completely outside of the organization that awards it.

[TheSkyHornet]

This question has come up several times, but I never know the answer and usually the conversations turn into a debate---

Does prior community service count for the Community Service Ribbon's requirements, as in that person did some of their service, as verified through a letter, before joining CAP?

Definitely not.  No organization is going to give you an award for something that you did before you joined them.  From an ethical standpoint I couldn't justify it either.

Sadly, this question comes up more than it should. How the Hades do people think that they can justify giving an organization's award for actions that we not performed as a member of that organization?

Because the Community Service Ribbon is for actions performed completely outside of the organization that awards it.

And that's the debate that comes up every time.

Most people who ask about the award don't seem to realize that it's community service entirely separate from CAP. I've had people ask if a Habitat for Humanity activity would qualify if the squadron pitched in. I would say if it's not a squadron-oriented activity, it could count, but if it's something the squadron is planning on their agenda, no, it wouldn't count. If that person came up to me and said "I worked with H4H over the summer, does that count as Community Service," yes, it does.

But now if someone did H4H before they joined CAP and provide a letter from someone saying "Joe Smith worked with us on December 5, 2012. He helped planned and organize an effort which took 10 hours," does that count for his Community Service time?

Sadly, this question comes up more than it should. How the Hades do people think that they can justify giving an organization's award for actions that we not performed as a member of that organization?

I think it's CAP's way of getting people to participate in the community beyond the scope of CAP. It ties into developing well-rounded individuals.

That being said, it does have that follow-up question of "What did this have to do with our organization, and why should you get an award for something that had no bearing on CAP?" It's a plus-minus-plus situation.

But, the regs say it's an award-worthy action. So, extracurricular community service counts toward a CAP award even thought it has no organizational ties to CAP.

[Storm Chaser]

This question has come up several times, but I never know the answer and usually the conversations turn into a debate---

Does prior community service count for the Community Service Ribbon's requirements, as in that person did some of their service, as verified through a letter, before joining CAP?

Definitely not.  No organization is going to give you an award for something that you did before you joined them.  From an ethical standpoint I couldn't justify it either.

Sadly, this question comes up more than it should. How the Hades do people think that they can justify giving an organization's award for actions that we not performed as a member of that organization?

Because the Community Service Ribbon is for actions performed completely outside of the organization that awards it.

Except that the intent of this ribbon is to encourage and recognize CAP members for their community service outside of CAP. What a member has done prior to membership shouldn't be taken into account not because it's not worthy, but because it was not done as a CAP member. Unfortunately, CAPR 39-3 is vague about the criteria, leaving it up to commanders to interpret the regulation. I think most reasonable commanders wouldn't approve this ribbon for community service done before joining CAP. Then again, others may and the regulation doesn't specifically prohibits it. We can debate this all day, but it would be better (and more definite) if NHQ just settle this discussion once and for all.

[THRAWN]

Exactly my point. Recognize the actions of member for activity outside the organization but that activity has to take place while the person is a member.

[lordmonar]

Oh I agree.....but the question was "why does this come up so often".   The answer is because the intent of the ribbon is not really clear in the reading of the CAPR. 

And when a regulation is unclear.....it opens up for different interpretations.