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ABU Wear Test

Started by winterg, December 11, 2015, 05:44:27 PM

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

PHall

Excluded for the two reasons given, cost and the fact that it helps make us look different from the Air Force fulfilling the requirements of AFI 10-2701.

bjf_55

Quote from: USACAP on March 16, 2016, 01:43:59 AM
5.11 boots are worth all of $56.
Made in China...
And zippers? Really?

Quote from: bjf_55 on March 15, 2016, 04:25:29 PM
http://www.511tactical.com/atac-8-sage-boot.html

I've never had problems with the 511 boots I was issued for work but to each their own.

jeders

I got a new pair of 5.11 boots last summer. They fit great and were incredibly comfortable right out of the box. Unfortunately, the plastic eyelets for the shoe laces broke after a week at NBB. Definitely not high quality.

Quote from: USACAP on March 16, 2016, 01:43:59 AM
5.11 boots are worth all of $56.
Made in China...
And zippers? Really?

The zippers were actually kind of nice to have, but they jammed before the eyelets broke.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

bjf_55

Quote from: bjf_55 on March 15, 2016, 04:25:29 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on March 15, 2016, 04:04:03 PM
That all depends on what you mean by "junk".

If I got to get my 12 year old into boots that he/she is gonna out grow in a year.....I'll take the $50 junkers please.
If you are talking about me......I will spend the $150 to get a "good" pair that will last me for 10 years.

So there you go.

Also....do you got a link to those cheap sage green boots?

http://www.511tactical.com/atac-8-sage-boot.html

Just to clarify my position, I was just giving an example of cheap green boots but don't really care either way if it is with back boots or not. I'll never wear the ABUs because I choose to have a beard and wear the BBDUs. I know most cadets love the idea of getting ABUs and are hoping they get them sooner than later. Luckily for the local squadron in my area the AFROTC unit has been trying to give us boxes of ABUs for years and if we take them there will be enough uniforms to issue all of the cadets 2 sets of complete ABU uniforms.

Holding Pattern

Quote from: SAREXinNY on March 16, 2016, 01:59:37 AM
Is there even talk about authorizing the sage boots? (I'm seriously asking, not being sarcastic)

Last I knew that wasn't even on the table.

(edited for grammar, because I can't type)

They aren't on the table at all. I don't know why we're even discussing them.

Nikos

I have been reading through this thread, and as one of the newer people here I find it interesting to say the least.  But, I have one question.  Could someone please tell me what a "smurf suit" is?  Thanks.

Angus

Quote from: Starfleet Auxiliary on March 16, 2016, 04:21:06 PM
Quote from: SAREXinNY on March 16, 2016, 01:59:37 AM
Is there even talk about authorizing the sage boots? (I'm seriously asking, not being sarcastic)

Last I knew that wasn't even on the table.

(edited for grammar, because I can't type)

They aren't on the table at all. I don't know why we're even discussing them.

Not everyone has seen the full text of the package.  So obviously people are guessing as to what's in it based off of ideas based on how Ma Blue wears ABU's and also how CAP could end up wearing them.  Plus even on page 1 of this thread which took place during the wear test both sage green and black boots are shown.  Which goes to theory that both ideas were floated about to see who it would work. 

That being said in the abstract I think that to the theories that sage green boots makes the difference as to tell us apart from AF is ridiculous, how often would people look between us and an active duty person and say "Hey I don't know who's who, I'd best look at their feet to tell them apart."
Maj. Richard J. Walsh, Jr.
Director Education & Training MAWG 
 Gill Robb Wilson #4030

Chappie

Quote from: Nikos on March 16, 2016, 05:54:05 PM
I have been reading through this thread, and as one of the newer people here I find it interesting to say the least.  But, I have one question.  Could someone please tell me what a "smurf suit" is?  Thanks.

It was an ultramarine flight suit that was phased out in 2009.  Here's a picture of it:

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-original-civil-air-patrol-505102378
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

Holding Pattern

#628
Quote from: Member Who on March 16, 2016, 06:00:09 PM
Quote from: Starfleet Auxiliary on March 16, 2016, 04:21:06 PM
Quote from: SAREXinNY on March 16, 2016, 01:59:37 AM
Is there even talk about authorizing the sage boots? (I'm seriously asking, not being sarcastic)

Last I knew that wasn't even on the table.

(edited for grammar, because I can't type)

They aren't on the table at all. I don't know why we're even discussing them.

Not everyone has seen the full text of the package.  So obviously people are guessing as to what's in it based off of ideas based on how Ma Blue wears ABU's and also how CAP could end up wearing them.  Plus even on page 1 of this thread which took place during the wear test both sage green and black boots are shown.  Which goes to theory that both ideas were floated about to see who it would work. 

That being said in the abstract I think that to the theories that sage green boots makes the difference as to tell us apart from AF is ridiculous, how often would people look between us and an active duty person and say "Hey I don't know who's who, I'd best look at their feet to tell them apart."

CAPNHQ sent an email explaining everything:

http://capmembers.bmetrack.com/c/v?e=8F6F84&c=2B380&l=E78D192

I'll requote it here: (adding bolds and underlines for important parts.)

Quote
Fellow members of the Civil Air Patrol:

The idea of Civil Air Patrol transitioning their Air Force style utility uniform from the BDU to the ABU, has been a topic of discussion in both official and unofficial circles for some time.

Previously, the decision was made to not pursue the ABU for CAP because the Air Force was considering phasing out the ABU. Recently, we were informed that the Air Force has no intention of phasing out the ABU in the near future. At that time, the decision was made to examine the possibility of CAP transitioning to the ABU, due to the increase in issues with BDU availability in some parts of the country. The National Uniform Committee was tasked with examining the issue.

It's important to remember that the Air Force Instruction governing our wear of the Air Force Uniform requires that our uniforms be easily distinguishable from Air Force Uniforms at a distance and at low light. This is accomplished through the use of distinctive insignia, name tapes, etc.

The National Uniform Committee, in coordination with CAP-USAF recommended that CAP ask for Air Force approval to wear the ABU with the following distinguishing modifications:

1.  Name and CAP tapes, aviation and specialty badges would be on a Navy Blue background with silver thread. These colors would be the same as currently in use on the NCO stripes. The NUC examined the possibility of using the ABU tapes. Because our adult members wear the same grade insignia as Air Force Officers, use of the ABU tapes was not considered to be distinguishable in accordance to the AFI. AFJROTC and AFROTC wear the ABU tapes, but they do not wear officer grade insignia. Wing, Unit, and Activity patches would be optional under the proposal.

2.  Black boots. There were many factors in our recommendation to retain the black boots. The first was cost to the membership. Many members already own black boots. Also, black boots are still available at reasonable prices commercially. The green boots cost over $100. Another consideration was asking members to buy a second pair of boots if they chose to wear other uniform combinations. The corporate (blue) uniform has black boots, as do the flight duty uniforms.  The final reason was the black boots provide a further distinguishing factor to the uniform.

Our final recommendation was to phase out the ultramarine blue tapes and insignia, and convert to the navy blue and silver tapes. These tapes better match the corporate BDU's and will eliminate the confusion caused by having two different color tapes.

As you have undoubtedly heard by now, our National Commander, Maj Gen Joseph Vazquez, sought the opinion of the CAP Command Council regarding the proposed changes. The Command Council overwhelmingly supported the change to the ABU. The proposal now goes to the Air Force for approval. As a reminder, the ABU Uniform for CAP is NOT approved yet.

The Command Council also recommended phasing out the ultramarine tapes in favor of the navy blue tapes on the Corporate BDU.

I hope this has answered your questions about how we arrived at our recommendations. If you have any further questions, I encourage you to address them with your chain of command. They have the most up to date information. Thank you.

Colonel Richard J. Greenwood, CAP
Chair, National Uniform Committee

Angus

When did that email come out?  I never saw it.  However it does make the only point as to why I'd never think of the sage green boots, the cost. 

I will say though at the end the higher emphasis you put on us not being authorized to wear the uniform yet was unnecessary.  Especially considering, as I've stated previous in this thread I doubt that Ma Blue will ever authorize it.  They're going to keep us in BDUs for a while. However I do think they will at least agree to the change from ultramarine blue over to the navy blue with silver thread.
Maj. Richard J. Walsh, Jr.
Director Education & Training MAWG 
 Gill Robb Wilson #4030

RogueLeader

It came out on March 2nd.  If you use Gmail, it probably ended up in your Promotions tab.
WYWG DP

GRW 3340

Angus

Hmm, weird nothing there.  Might be that I had my email going through the native email app on my iPhone.
Maj. Richard J. Walsh, Jr.
Director Education & Training MAWG 
 Gill Robb Wilson #4030

PHall

The e-mail only went to members who have an e-mail address on file with National.

Luis R. Ramos

Starfleet,

>:D

Not big enough!


:clap:
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

Holding Pattern

Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on March 17, 2016, 01:36:30 AM
Starfleet,

>:D

Not big enough!


:clap:

:D

To be fair, I also wanted to make the post noticeable enough so that when this question comes up again in 5 pages I can just do a quick scroll to find it...

Angus

Quote from: PHall on March 17, 2016, 12:05:15 AM
The e-mail only went to members who have an e-mail address on file with National.

Been there done that, always had mine on file since I joined in 2005.   ;)  I've gotten a lot of other stuff from National too so I don't know what's up with not getting this one.  Maybe I'm just not one of the cool kids any more.   :o
Maj. Richard J. Walsh, Jr.
Director Education & Training MAWG 
 Gill Robb Wilson #4030

Storm Chaser

Quote from: Starfleet Auxiliary on March 16, 2016, 07:00:55 PM
As a reminder, the ABU Uniform for CAP is NOT approved yet.

Wait! The ABU is not approved yet?  :o >:D

Angus

Quote from: Storm Chaser on March 17, 2016, 12:59:21 PM
Quote from: Starfleet Auxiliary on March 16, 2016, 07:00:55 PM
As a reminder, the ABU Uniform for CAP is NOT approved yet.

Wait! The ABU is not approved yet?  :o >:D

Nope won't be approved for us till Air Force transitions to a Starfleet type uniform.   >:D
Maj. Richard J. Walsh, Jr.
Director Education & Training MAWG 
 Gill Robb Wilson #4030

-_adrian_-

Quote from: Nikos on March 16, 2016, 05:54:05 PM
I have been reading through this thread, and as one of the newer people here I find it interesting to say the least.  But, I have one question.  Could someone please tell me what a "smurf suit" is?  Thanks.
A Smurf suit is the Blue corp corporate BDU uniform.

winterg

Quote from: -_adrian_- on March 17, 2016, 05:01:01 PM
Quote from: Nikos on March 16, 2016, 05:54:05 PM
I have been reading through this thread, and as one of the newer people here I find it interesting to say the least.  But, I have one question.  Could someone please tell me what a "smurf suit" is?  Thanks.
A Smurf suit is the Blue corp corporate BDU uniform.
Incorrect. The "smurf suit" was a blue jumpsuit no longer autorized in CAP.