Fort Dix terror target?

[mikeylikey]

Just read that Fort Dix was targeted by  group of terrorists for a HUGE attack.  It is breaking news on all the news sites.  Big question.......will the McGuire Airshow be canceled because of this? 

[NIN]

Doubt it, but you can darn sure bet that you'll get the "Security High Colonic" on entry...

[fyrfitrmedic]

From kyw1060.com:

McGuire Air Force Base sits next to Fort Dix, in Burlington County, NJ. Even after the terrorism plot was revealed on Tuesday, a planned "Air Expo" is on for this weekend.

The Open House and Air Expo is set for this weekend, with up to 150,000 people expected on the McGuire base each day.

Maj. James Greathouse says even with the terrorism threat at adjoining Fort Dix was disclosed, the show will go on:

"One of the things we learned after 9/11 is we can't cower, and we can't change who we are and what we do because of some of those folks out there. What we can do is learn and be safe and be cautious, and take all the precautions we can."

He says security on base has been increased already. And this weekend, every car will be scanned; no bags, backpacks or coolers will be allowed; and every person will go through at least one metal detector.

[DNall]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070508/ap_on_re_us/fort_dix_plot

[floridacyclist]

After spending time there for Airbase Ground Defense Training in the '80s, one can almost wish for a little success on the raghead's part...like maybe just blow up the low-crawl pit.

[shorning]

After spending time there for Airbase Ground Defense Training in the '80s, one can almost wish for a little success on the raghead's part...like maybe just blow up the low-crawl pit.

I guess wishing the terrorist success was one way you could go with it...

[floridacyclist]

I think it's pretty obvious that my tongue was firmly planted in my cheek. If that doesn't work, I'm blaming it on the Percoset :-D

[JC004]

What kind of sucky, minor-league plotters are these people? 

Losers!  They couldn't convert their VHS or whatever to DVD using a machine from Best Buy?  They didn't think that people might be made nervous by almost a dozen people shooting things and screaming jihad-associated chants?  And they thought they were gonna buy full-auto AK-47's for 500 bucks each?  In what currency?  I don't buy on the black market, but I've never seen a full-auto weapon for 500 bucks - come on.  Hell, my semi-auto AR-15 was more than twice that.  You don't buy a junk weapon for terrorism, anyway.  WTH?!  You terrorists suck!  Now rot in prison. 

[DNall]

What kind of sucky, minor-league plotters are these people? 

Thank God for dumb terrorists!!!! No kidding, if they shared thre brain cells between the whole movement there'd be so many easy ways for us to be in big trouble, but thank the good Lord they're morons.

I'd point out from that story that a CG station was on the hit list. A major one granted, but the CG, who is primarily a domestic rescue & regulatory force & not normally viewed as an offensive military branch. Just food for thought.

[fyrfitrmedic]

What kind of sucky, minor-league plotters are these people? 

Thank God for dumb terrorists!!!! No kidding, if they shared thre brain cells between the whole movement there'd be so many easy ways for us to be in big trouble, but thank the good Lord they're morons.

I'd point out from that story that a CG station was on the hit list. A major one granted, but the CG, who is primarily a domestic rescue & regulatory force & not normally viewed as an offensive military branch. Just food for thought.

The specific CG station on their target list is far from the choicest target in that area...

[Pumbaa]

Amazing.. and to think FT Monmouth was on thier watch list too.  I was there for 2 weeks last fall and I am scheduled to go back later this year.

Well I am now schedule to head off to Kuwait in July.. perhaps it will be safer there!

Tounge in cheek

[BillB]

Does this mean driving a disguised black van  I can't blow up a building on S Hansell St???  Darn just after I bought an expensive towel from Walmart.  But at least I have my Red Rider 50 shot BB gun safely hidden.

[LTC_Gadget]

"Dumb and Dubmer 3 - Jihad".. indeed.

Unfortunately, all kidding aside, we know they're not *all* that dumb. How different a world it would be if that were so. 

Too bad their kids aren't distracted by video games, affected by ADD, rap music, recreational pharmaceuticals or any of several other afflictions that our kids face.  Their movement would be derailed within a generation.. maybe.

As for targets, I don't know anything about Fort Dix, but I recalled the phrase "think outside the box." Dams are targets because of the damage that can be caused downstream if they're destroyed, the loss of electrical power if destroyed, or the human toll if the water supply is poisoned.  Remote computer operations centers are targets because they are access points into security systems elsewhere, or the systems controlled from those access points. A concrete culvert a half-mile away is targeted because it provides unmonitored access to something else.  If the "front door" is guarded or locked, try the window, the back door, the roof, or come up from underneath. Sometimes an exploit has less to do with the asset being exploited than it does the target to which it provides access if exploited.  As any prison guard will tell you, their side has time to sit back and watch the good guys going about their daily business, find the security holes, spot the complacency, and then devise an exploit.

Let's hope for more dain-bramaged terrorists...

V/R,

[NIN]

After spending time there for Airbase Ground Defense Training in the '80s, one can almost wish for a little success on the raghead's part...like maybe just blow up the low-crawl pit.

I went to Basic there.. The old chow hall across from the reception station (later the HQ for the ABGD school) is now the clothing sales store. My BCT barracks was across the quad from there.

Visited in 2002 when I went to Region Staff College... Looking over those old barracks and the fire roads we used to march on was a little freaky...

I just can't imagine inprocessing & billeting 1100 people for 2 days of airshow.  Gosh!

[ddelaney103]

Does this mean driving a disguised black van  I can't blow up a building on S Hansell St???  Darn just after I bought an expensive towel from Walmart.  But at least I have my Red Rider 50 shot BB gun safely hidden.

Careful, you'll put your eye out with that thing...

[JohnKachenmeister]

You know, they made mistakes, but let's not pat ourselves on the back that ALL of our enemies are stupid.

Here are a few of the facts that are coming out:

1.  Their initial target was the Army-Navy game.  I have LONG thought about that event as a target, and I have long believed that security at that event should be beefed up.

2.  The reason they did not hit the Army Navy game was that they did not consider their training, equipment and organization up to the task.  Not to say they won't try later.

3.  One of the terrorists delivered pizza at the base.  He would have been a familiar figure at the gate, and routinely admitted.  There's something to be said for the long lead and planning time for these attacks.

4. WE ARE NOT IMMUNE FROM ATTACK !!!!!!!!!!!!  By "We" I mean the CAP.  Consider the goal of the terrorist:  To demoralize and frighten the civilian population such that they will demand an end to combat operations against the enemy.  (This was the same goal of "Bomber" Harris and Hermann Goring in World War II when they decided to launch aerial bombing campaigns against population centers, BTW)  The wanton killing of a few dozen military cadets, ages 12-18, would be a VERY demoralizing act, or from the point of view of the enemy, a victory.  You know all those cherry-cheeked pre-teen cadets that National likes to use in recruiting brochures, because the mothers of potential cadets think they will look "cute" in their little BDU's?  Picture a few of them in bloody heaps on the grinder where they had been practicing close-order drill.

5.  The defense against attack is to understand that these guys DO engage in detailed planning. They do it right.  They do NOT conduct hasty attacks.  All raids are meticulously planned and follow the planning steps for a deliberate attack that all you guys should have learned in your OCS/ROTC/Military Academy days.  That includes a leaders' recon and rehersals.  That is the weakness:  Be ALERT for anybody conducting a recon. 

So, a parent and prospective cadet come in to "Look the unit over" ask questions, get the meeting schedule, get a good look at your meeting facilities, and then don't join?  Happens all the time, right?

Lets start keeping better records, conduct better follow up, and if someone from a population group associated with the enemy visits the unit and does not subsequently join the squadron, maybe we should put "Political correctness" on the shelf and report it to the FBI.

[SAR-EMT1]

You know, they made mistakes, but let's not pat ourselves on the back that ALL of our enemies are stupid.

Here are a few of the facts that are coming out:

1.  Their initial target was the Army-Navy game.  I have LONG thought about that event as a target, and I have long believed that security at that event should be beefed up.

2.  The reason they did not hit the Army Navy game was that they did not consider their training, equipment and organization up to the task.  Not to say they won't try later.

3.  One of the terrorists delivered pizza at the base.  He would have been a familiar figure at the gate, and routinely admitted.  There's something to be said for the long lead and planning time for these attacks.

4. WE ARE NOT IMMUNE FROM ATTACK !!!!!!!!!!!!  By "We" I mean the CAP.  Consider the goal of the terrorist:  To demoralize and frighten the civilian population such that they will demand an end to combat operations against the enemy.  (This was the same goal of "Bomber" Harris and Hermann Goring in World War II when they decided to launch aerial bombing campaigns against population centers, BTW)  The wanton killing of a few dozen military cadets, ages 12-18, would be a VERY demoralizing act, or from the point of view of the enemy, a victory.  You know all those cherry-cheeked pre-teen cadets that National likes to use in recruiting brochures, because the mothers of potential cadets think they will look "cute" in their little BDU's?  Picture a few of them in bloody heaps on the grinder where they had been practicing close-order drill.

5.  The defense against attack is to understand that these guys DO engage in detailed planning. They do it right.  They do NOT conduct hasty attacks.  All raids are meticulously planned and follow the planning steps for a deliberate attack that all you guys should have learned in your OCS/ROTC/Military Academy days.  That includes a leaders' recon and rehersals.  That is the weakness:  Be ALERT for anybody conducting a recon. 

So, a parent and prospective cadet come in to "Look the unit over" ask questions, get the meeting schedule, get a good look at your meeting facilities, and then don't join?  Happens all the time, right?

Lets start keeping better records, conduct better follow up, and if someone from a population group associated with the enemy visits the unit and does not subsequently join the squadron, maybe we should put "Political correctness" on the shelf and report it to the FBI.

Ok, I will accept your argument on the grounds of "terror"
However, targeting CAP, like targeting the USCG, doesnt make sense, we are in the business of saving lives, not taking them. We arent "combat oriented" ...save the 122 SOS 

The other point I wanted to make is: why havent these folks learned by now that the US or UK or Spain, Russian etc, dont get scared and back down. We never have. We get PO'd and then tend to go into the demolition business.  The end point is that: Nation-states have never ceeded to the "goal" of terrorism.

[ColonelJack]

Ok, I will accept your argument on the grounds of "terror"
However, targeting CAP, like targeting the USCG, doesnt make sense, we are in the business of saving lives, not taking them. We arent "combat oriented" ...save the 122 SOS 

True enough ... but we (CAP) have one very big thing working against us, at least as far as these terrorists are concerned.

We're Americans.

And to a big chunk of the terror community out there, that's all we need to be to make us targets.

That's why vigilance is so essential.

Jack

[Al Sayre]

Remember that Corpsmen and Medics are in the business of saving lives too, and  the enemy knows that if he uses that big red X as a target, he will not only cause a single injury but prevent that man from saving people who may get back in the fight, demoralize the troops who depend on that corpsman, and score a tactical and strategic point for his side by removing a force multiplier.

[SAR-EMT1]

Remember that Corpsmen and Medics are in the business of saving lives too, and  the enemy knows that if he uses that big red X as a target, he will not only cause a single injury but prevent that man from saving people who may get back in the fight, demoralize the troops who depend on that corpsman, and score a tactical and strategic point for his side by removing a force multiplier.

In WWII German Officers court martialed Wehrmacht Soldiers accused of shooting medics. The US Army did the same, though I highly doubt the Japanese at the time we so civilized.
Why cant we go back to the Cold War?

[RogueLeader]

What kind of sucky, minor-league plotters are these people? 

Losers!  They couldn't convert their VHS or whatever to DVD using a machine from Best Buy?  They didn't think that people might be made nervous by almost a dozen people shooting things and screaming jihad-associated chants?  And they thought they were gonna buy full-auto AK-47's for 500 bucks each?  In what currency?  I don't buy on the black market, but I've never seen a full-auto weapon for 500 bucks - come on.  Hell, my semi-auto AR-15 was more than twice that.  You don't buy a junk weapon for terrorism, anyway.  WTH?!  You terrorists suck!  Now rot in prison. 

A semi auto AK 47 is only 450- made in Romania. and my Civ M-4 was 800- made by DPMS

[SAR-EMT1]

But there again, you mention junk weapons... when was the last time a quality care check was made of anything from Romania? I dont want a round going off in the chamber, or a crap firing pin.
As for the M-4: Armalite or Colt.
though DPMS has some SWEET pistols.

[LTC_Gadget]

Ok, I will accept your argument on the grounds of "terror"
However, targeting CAP, like targeting the USCG, doesnt make sense, we are in the business of saving lives, not taking them.

Well, I live in OKC, so I have a localized example of why it's everyone's concern.  Remember that the occupants of the Murrah building weren't combatants either.  There was a day-care center in that building as well.  That strike wasn't about reducing the number of combatants, it was about making a point, demoralizing a people..

V/R,

[LTC_Gadget]

I highly doubt the Japanese at the time we so civilized.

We're all generally familiar with the atrocities committed by the Nazis in WWII. 

But, if you'd like to read accounts of things that will curl your hair, and make the Nazis look like choirboys, read of what the Japanese did to the Chinese in WWII, in "The Rape of Nanking."

V/R,

[RogueLeader]

But there again, you mention junk weapons... when was the last time a quality care check was made of anything from Romania? I dont want a round going off in the chamber, or a crap firing pin.
As for the M-4: Armalite or Colt.
though DPMS has some SWEET pistols.

My DPMS has been good ot me thus far, and as for colt, they lost the government contract due to poor work.  My Romanian may not be the best, and I'm positive that its not, but it is definitely functional.

[SAR-EMT1]

I highly doubt the Japanese at the time we so civilized.

We're all generally familiar with the atrocities committed by the Nazis in WWII. 

But, if you'd like to read accounts of things that will curl your hair, and make the Nazis look like choirboys, read of what the Japanese did to the Chinese in WWII, in "The Rape of Nanking."

V/R,

Read it. And I may need to apologize. The Nazis and SS had the Death Camps and whatnot.  I'm no way would I refer to them as "civilized" I was referring more to the older Imperial style  Whermacht.

And to agree with you, the Japanese Military at the time was indeed populated with savages.  I used to attend church with a gentleman who took a walk at Bataan.

[SAR-EMT1]

Back to topic... how did these yahoos expect to gain admission to Dix? were they to roll in as pizza delivery boys?
Speaking for myself, Ive been searched over - in uniform- going onto Scott AFB to go to the uniform store.

[sardak]

Back to topic... how did these yahoos expect to gain admission to Dix? were they to roll in as pizza delivery boys?

Funny you should ask...(from multiple media reports):

"Authorities said the group settled on Fort Dix in part because one defendant, Serdar Tatar, 23, had delivered pizzas to the base from his family's nearby restaurant, Super Mario Pizza..."

Mike

[mikeylikey]

Back to topic... how did these yahoos expect to gain admission to Dix? were they to roll in as pizza delivery boys?

Funny you should ask...(from multiple media reports):

"Authorities said the group settled on Fort Dix in part because one defendant, Serdar Tatar, 23, had delivered pizzas to the base from his family's nearby restaurant, Super Mario Pizza..."

Mike

It's going to be back to having to meet the pizza delivery guy outside the gate as well as all your guests just like it was right after 9/11.  Remember when an MP just waved at you when you drove onto any military post/base/station you wanted to?

[JC004]

Back to topic... how did these yahoos expect to gain admission to Dix? were they to roll in as pizza delivery boys?

Funny you should ask...(from multiple media reports):

"Authorities said the group settled on Fort Dix in part because one defendant, Serdar Tatar, 23, had delivered pizzas to the base from his family's nearby restaurant, Super Mario Pizza..."

Mike

Note to self: Don't buy pizza here when near Dix.

[DNall]

Back to topic... how did these yahoos expect to gain admission to Dix? were they to roll in as pizza delivery boys?
Speaking for myself, Ive been searched over - in uniform- going onto Scott AFB to go to the uniform store.

When you have a base access pass cause you deliver pizza there all the time... kind of bass ackwards huh?

It's going to be back to having to meet the pizza delivery guy outside the gate as well as all your guests just like it was right after 9/11.  Remember when an MP just waved at you when you drove onto any military post/base/station you wanted to?

The old school pull forward, salute, & wave all in one smooth arm motion... yeah been awhile.    Meeting pizza at the gate, crap, night as well go pick it up & save a coulpe bucks. Assuming the guards aren't flipped out & trying to shoot me coming back on, CAC & all.

[Al Sayre]

Sounds like opportunity knocking... put up a sign in the barracks, charge $2.00 -$3.00 per customer to make a pizza run every hour or so when you aren't on duty or out on the town. Lather, rinse, repeat...

[JohnKachenmeister]

SAR-EMT:  I was a Navy corpsman a long time ago.  The British targeted German rescue airplanes marked with the Red Cross in the Battle of Britain, with impunity.  The British claimed (unconvincingly, in my opinion) that use of the Red Cross to rescue a non-wounded pilot was an illegal use of the red cross insignia.

American troops in Europe used the red cross insignia, and it was more-or-less respected.  The red cross insignia was used BRIEFLY during the Battle of Guadalcanal, but since Japanese snipers intentionally targeted corpsmen, the red cross insignia were removed.  Navy corpsmen have not worn them since.

My friend, the fact the we save lives is immaterial to the enemy.  Killing us, killing coast guardsmen, or killing office workers in the World Trade Center is all killing Americans.

There animals do suicide bombings at school bus stops in Israel.  If you think they will not target CAP units because Congress says we can only do "Non-combatant" missions for the Air Force, you are living in a Dream World. 

[ZigZag911]

4. WE ARE NOT IMMUNE FROM ATTACK !!!!!!!!!!!!  By "We" I mean the CAP.  Consider the goal of the terrorist:  To demoralize and frighten the civilian population such that they will demand an end to combat operations against the enemy.  (This was the same goal of "Bomber" Harris and Hermann Goring in World War II when they decided to launch aerial bombing campaigns against population centers, BTW)  The wanton killing of a few dozen military cadets, ages 12-18, would be a VERY demoralizing act, or from the point of view of the enemy, a victory.  You know all those cherry-cheeked pre-teen cadets that National likes to use in recruiting brochures, because the mothers of potential cadets think they will look "cute" in their little BDU's?  Picture a few of them in bloody heaps on the grinder where they had been practicing close-order drill.

I've been saying this since 9/11, yet so few take the concept seriously. CAP is a "soft" target....not the only one, but, frankly, an attack on any of these cadet programs (Young Marines, Sea Cadets, JROTC) will result in a terrible tragedy that will also produce horrific visual images that will demoralize the nation.


Ok, I will accept your argument on the grounds of "terror"
However, targeting CAP, like targeting the USCG, doesnt make sense, we are in the business of saving lives, not taking them. We arent "combat oriented" ...save the 122 SOS 

These people are terrorists: they attack schools, hospitals, grocery stores, even religious processions of their own faith, in their own countries....our noble purpose is not going to slow them down in the least!

CAP, the Coast Guard, the Army-Navy game, any kind of event with large numbers of young people, civilians, or both presents an ideal opportunity to frighten the populace, to upset as many people as possible, to cause the most psychological damage for the least risk.

Fort Dix was a target for different psychological reasons: if one of our military bases, full of soldiers, is not safe, then nowhere in the country is safe!

[Smokey]

In 1980 I went to a police officer survival school  put on by the DEA.   I still remember an instructor discussing terrorists (yes--even in 1980) that one way terrorists planned on getting into military bases was via a taxi!!  Apparently a taxi is or was allowed on base without much scrutiny. It was the thought of the gate guards that someone legitimately already on base had called for the taxi.  No one bothered to take a second look at a taxi driver and just waved them on.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I suggest:

1.  Review your security at your activity.  Think like an attacker.  Say to yourself:  "How can I kill these BDU-clad Infidels who are preparing to make war on Islam?"

2.  Keep a log of all persons visiting your facilities.  NOT just a sign-in sheet.  Verify identity, enter name, address, DOB, SSN, and what document you saw to verify identity.

3.  Make follow up calls to the phone numbers given.  "Did you enjoy your visit?"  "Do you have any questions about our squadron?"  Good recruiting follow up anyway, but also verifies that the phone number they gave you is legit.

4.  Reduce to the minimum all activity visible from the street or public areas.

5.  Eliminate trash cans from areas open to the public.

6.  Keep the unit sign-in roster and the visitor log close, and in an emergency, bring both with you if you have to evacuate.  One helps with accountability for our people, the other helps locate suspects.  Enforce use of the visitor log and unit sign-in.  It doesn't look good to not know where our people are.

[mikeylikey]

In 1980 I went to a police officer survival school  put on by the DEA.   I still remember an instructor discussing terrorists (yes--even in 1980) that one way terrorists planned on getting into military bases was via a taxi!!  Apparently a taxi is or was allowed on base without much scrutiny. It was the thought of the gate guards that someone legitimately already on base had called for the taxi.  No one bothered to take a second look at a taxi driver and just waved them on.

As a test of my organizational abilities, I was assigned to the garrison of the post I was at about a four years ago with the sole purpose of clearing all of the taxi drivers and companies that operated on post.  We issued them the old Geneva conventions cards, and decaled their car window and put them through deers as contractors.  When I look back on it, I find it a shame that they got MILID's and CAP members can't.

[SAR-EMT1]

I did not mean to sound as though I live with my head stuck in the sand. Merely that CAP is not a very "visible" target. The Trade Centers, an Army base, The Capitol Building, a Head of State....those are visible Targets.
Yes I know we are not a 'hard'  target, but not a visible one.
As for the question I asked of entry, I knew the intended route of entry, what I didnt know was that Pizza Delivery boys got a CAC and a car sticker.
Taxi drivers, pizza boys... heck, newpaper delivery kids probably get a sticker for their bicycles.
What do we get?

Quick sidebar; would the fact that my unit wasnt quatered at the base have anything to do with being searched? ae- do the CAP types local to the base get a sticker or ID card?

[jimmydeanno]

Taxi drivers, pizza boys... heck, newpaper delivery kids probably get a sticker for their bicycles.
What do we get?

Quick sidebar; would the fact that my unit wasnt quatered at the base have anything to do with being searched? ae- do the CAP types local to the base get a sticker or ID card?

When I was at Langley AFB, the pizza places had a specific delivery driver that went to the base.  These drivers were typically a)military dependents already and had an ID, 2) Airman holding a second job, 3) The base had "base access passes" that were like extended visitors passes, that went with a DL, and the reciept showing exactly where the pizza or food was being delivered.  On the FPCON C or higher days, they would have to go to the visitors center and the person that ordered it was called.  A lot of the time though, people would just order pizza from the pizza place in the BX plaza...

What do we get? CAPID.  That and a DL will get you on base.  The base sticker doesn't do anything exept verify you have insurance...they check IDs for everyone now...

[LTC_Gadget]

do the CAP types local to the base get a sticker or ID card?

The last conversation to which I was a party, indicated that, in the AF at least, it's a base commander's decision.  They don't on my base.

Since CAC cards are usually considered synonymous with base computer network access, it seems odd that pizza boys are getting CACs... That's probably/may be a base-by-base decision as well, but I have no specific knowledge

In the AF, at least, the whole base sticker thing is getting a new interpretation as well, I was left with the impression, at least, that it's being re-visited DOD-wide.

V/R,

[Flying Pig]

Targeting CAP  and or ROTC makes perfect sense.  Terrorists get a great effect when they blow up unarmed civilians.  Not to mention kids who aspire to be soldiers one day.  I can gaurantee these arent the only guys in the US who are/were planning this. If not, there will be some other nut case who will pick up the cause.

As far as the Coast Guard.  When I was in the Marines (pre-911) the going joke was that if you really wanted to shoot automatic weapons at someone, you shoulda joined the Coast Guard.   They have a very convicing way of stopping drug boats.

For the most part though, in the US, people on base dont walk around with loaded weapons.  Sure you have the MP's, but thats about it.  Well, until now.

[DNall]

I can see terrorists looking at people in uniform & thinking easy target, and attractive one with the real mil on higher alert. If the CG is a target than everyone is. The problem is I just don't think CAP officers have the training to address force protection. I think maybe some stuff needs to be added to our PD program at the varrious levels. I don't think CAP or similiar orgs need to overreact, but I do think you need to be aware, on guard, and vigilant.

Politics aside, 9/11 was a symbolic strike at the govt/policy making, military, & financial centers of the US. It was symbolic & had very little to do with how many were killed or how much damage was done, that was just bonus on their part.

The current mindset is to bleed the US in any way possible to destroy public support for foreign action. If that's killing soldiers in a war zone then they'll kill lots of them, if it's blowing up daycare centers in mid-America then they'll do that too. They'll do anything they believe will create the desired feeling of defeat while not reinvigorating the public to fight back. That's why troops on US soil are valid targets & daycares aren't, and why you'll see them talking all about get out of Iraq & stop your imperialist intentions to conquer the land of islam & make us all christians. If in their mind your people are a target that will deliver the right PR message on American TV, or appears to them in some way to be, then you should be aware & prepared.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Like I said in an earlier thread.  Force Protection in CAP is the elephant in the room.  Nobody wants to talk about it, but the elephant is not going away just because we ignore him.

There are two kinds of Force Protection actions:  Passive measures, designed to make intel gathering and access difficult for our enemy, and Active measures, designed to resist and eliminate threat forces.

There are no legal restrictions on use of passive methods.  I suggested some passive measures earlier on this thread.  Right now, I don't think that there has been a comprehensive legal review of the possible active measures we can take to protect our people and our stuff.  We need to get all them CAP lawyer types off the golf course and on the job.

[DNall]

second

[sandman]

Remember that Corpsmen and Medics are in the business of saving lives too, and  the enemy knows that if he uses that big red X as a target, he will not only cause a single injury but prevent that man from saving people who may get back in the fight, demoralize the troops who depend on that corpsman, and score a tactical and strategic point for his side by removing a force multiplier.

In WWII German Officers court martialed Wehrmacht Soldiers accused of shooting medics. The US Army did the same, though I highly doubt the Japanese at the time we so civilized.
Why cant we go back to the Cold War?

Between you and me, the cold war has not ended. Strategy and tactics have only shifted in paradigm...
If the jihadists have secured any type of nuclear device, you can rest assured that it filtered through places like Iran but have russian cyrillic stamped on it somewhere, just my thought...

[LTC_Gadget]

you can rest assured that it filtered through places like Iran but have russian cyrillic stamped on it somewhere, just my thought...

I remember reading an article just after the dissolution of the USSR detailing how many pieces of military hardware, and a lot of military (and intelligence community) information came up for sale because of the fact that a lot of high-ranking military figures were suddenly unemployed or without as certain a retirement plan.  There's certainly a healthy quantity of military uniform 'bling' that still shows up on ebay and other websites for sale. 

The *other* scary thing about the dissolution of the USSR, is that we went from one, *known* individual with the power to hit his little red button, to *several* not-well-known individuals with the power to hit their own little red buttons, and not all of them are as reasoned or tempered as even that one person used to be.  Tell me again why things are supposedly better??  Either way you look at it, it's still relative degrees of spine-tingling fear. There are some scary little tin-pot dictators out there.  And remember, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that someone isn't out to get you...

V/R,

[ddelaney103]

The *other* scary thing about the dissolution of the USSR, is that we went from one, *known* individual with the power to hit his little red button, to *several* not-well-known individuals with the power to hit their own little red buttons, and not all of them are as reasoned or tempered as even that one person used to be.  Tell me again why things are supposedly better??

Oooh, oooh I know!

Because we're not as likely to end all human life on the planet?

People tend to forget how close we came to "Nukuler combat, toe to toe with the Rooskies."  Cuba and Able Archer 83 were both much closer than anyone would like.

At the risk of sounding like Gen. 'Buck' Turgidson, nowadays we only have to worry about one nuke, maybe a handful from the DPRK.  That's nothing like what we'd do to the Earth if we'd turn the keys on the SIOP, much less a Soviet response.

[LTC_Gadget]

Well, my basic point was just that we traded one "commie" with his finger on *the* button for *several* "wingnuts" with their fingers on their own buttons; and more lax security measures.. But we don't have to digress on that tangent here.. Thassall..

V/R,

[wingnut]

Oh yes Baby DUCK AND COVER, and my favorite one is Slim Pickens riding the Nuke down. Yes the Cold War, at least we had a Boogy Man, now its no fun. Every one is a Boogy Man.

Anyone see Team America, World Police??

[MIKE]

Anyone see Team America, World Police??

Yes, I've even seen a website that sells t-shirts that read "durka, durka, durka" in Arabic