Anyone know how to contact the Maryland Defense Force?

[NAYBOR]

I know this is not a CAP-sepcific question, but since it's the lobby, I figured I'd ask: Is there anyone here in the Maryland Defense Force (MDDF), or know how to contact the MDDF?  I've attempted to contact them via email, but have heard nothing back in a while.  All that is listed is an email address for the "Recruiter" and "Webmaster" on their website.  I have been unable to find any phone number for anyone on their official website, or any other site.  I have called Military Affairs, but they refer me back to the website.  I've searched the 'net--no phone numbers, but a few more emails (which I tried).  Anyone know if the MDDF is still interested in recruiting people?  I am particularly looking for commissioning in their medical services corps.

[DNall]

Don't know anything about them, but I'd call back the AG's office & figure out how close the relationship is with the guard there. If they're not that tight then you're just going to end up sitting in a meeting room doing nothing in another uniform.

[Becks]

Ask over at VaJoe, they have a big SDF section on their website.

http://www.vajoe.com/board/viewforum.php?id=30

[RiverAux]

There is a former CAP guy in the MDDF that posts fairly regularly over on the CAP board and SDF board at military.com

[KFreeman]

Naybor,

Go to http://www.mddefenseforce.org to see what's up. There is a "Contacts" button.

Regards,
Ken

[ddelaney103]

You can also try the Military Dept website:

http://www.mdmildep.org/index.cfm

[DNall]

How old are you, and how much prior-service? Can you just come back in the guard? I think it's 46yo for medical personnel PLUS however many years of military service. I think there's waivers to cause I've seen some senior docs come in. And the signing bonus starts & 20grand on up to 50, plus some other stuff for further education.

My sister is getting 20k up front & 30 more over 3 years to come in as 68W (enlisted medic - EMT). Meanwhile they're giving me 10 as a combat arms officer & I don't see that for 18months.

[SDFSoldier]

Did you find a email for the MDDF?

If not, please contact me, and I can direct your questions to the right person...

Sorry for the problems.

rscott@mddf.us

[NAYBOR]

Thank you all for the help!  Not too long after I posted this, many people from MDDF contacted me.  I was put in touch with the Colonel in charge of the 10MEDRGT of the MDDF, and am in the process of joining.  The colonel thought there was no residency requirement, but apparently there is, but is seeking a waiver.  Thanks, too,  for posting this over on vajoe.com, RiverAux!

Dnall, you can join the MDDF up until 70 without waiver.  I'm 33 presently, and will be joining the mental health corps of the 10MEDRGT if all goes well.  I have a graduate degree in Psychology, with years of experience in the field.

We'll see what happens!

Thanks again, everyone!  I really appreciate it!

[DNall]

Dnall, you can join the MDDF up until 70 without waiver.  I'm 33 presently, and will be joining the mental health corps of the 10MEDRGT if all goes well.  I have a graduate degree in Psychology, with years of experience in the field.

Yeah, why don't you just take a direct commission in the national guard instead? Two weeks & you're a real officer with a paycheck (small tho it be), and get to make a bigger impact, pretty dang good benefits & such. Check into it anyway. PM me & I'll put you on some contacts.

[RiverAux]

He will be a real officer in the MDDF.  Surprised to see such a comment from you.

[ddelaney103]

He will be a real officer in the MDDF.  Surprised to see such a comment from you.

Yes, but all the comments about pay and benefits are true.

[RiverAux]

The MDDF medical unit has quite a lot of opportunities to make a difference.  While I don't like a few things that they've done (outside the scope of CAPTalk), they did send a big group of people down south after Katrina and also sent a group over to Kosovo as part of a NG deployment. 

[ddelaney103]

Don't get me wrong - I think the MDDF is a great org.  If I was a med pro, or if one came to me for advice I'll tell them to choose MDDF over CAP any day.  In the MDDF, a pharmacist will do pharmacist stuff: in CAP, the best they can hope for is doing "Prevention of Heat Stress Injuries" PPT's for some sqdn.

However, it is not the real military.  The pay, benefits, and opportunities are all much greater in the RC.

[RiverAux]

yes, it is the real military in all legal senses of the word.  Pay and benefits do not a soldier make.....I'm not up on the MDDF, but depending on the state, some State Defense Force members do get paid at the same rate as the NG while on State Active Duty and get the same job protection benefits and may also get educational benefits. 

[wingnut]

Did anyone pay attention to the fact that a Maryland Defense Force medical unit was activated, Sworn on to active duty as a National Guard Unit, and federalized to assist with Katrina.

Go to their web site.

[RiverAux]

Uh, I think you're overstepping the known facts a bit unless you have details beyond what is on their web site.  We do know they went along with the NG to Kosovo but I will bet you quite a bit of money that they were not sent as a National Guard unit. 

They were not "federalized" for Katrina either -- they were sent along with the NG-- which itself was not federalized for the mission -- they went under state orders too.

[ddelaney103]

Uh, I think you're overstepping the known facts a bit unless you have details beyond what is on their web site.  We do know they went along with the NG to Kosovo but I will bet you quite a bit of money that they were not sent as a National Guard unit. 

They were not "federalized" for Katrina either -- they were sent along with the NG-- which itself was not federalized for the mission -- they went under state orders too.

I can confirm the last - all the ANG types I know that went to Katrina got State Active Duty Medals for their troubles.  From the write up on the web site I'm guessing they didn't go federal for Kosovo, either.

Many states have agreements between each other to share NG/SDF resources in case of disaster.  With Iraq sucking the Guard dry, they may need it.

[DNall]

He will be a real officer in the MDDF.  Surprised to see such a comment from you.

Whatever man, federal recognition is what makes you a soldier & that's it. Due respect to SDFs (the decent ones), but they aren't the same thing as the reserve component of the US Armed Forces.

The guard IS the real military, comes with a paycheck, real benefits, including paid for advanced education, comes with real mil officer training that's very useful back on the CAP or civilian sides, and down the road it comes with a retirement package.

[RiverAux]

"Federal recognition"...  Federal law authorizes states to form SDFs which is all the recognition state militias had for over half the history of this country.  There was no "federal recognition" prior to the formation of the modern NG system.  Are you saying the state militia units that fought in the War of 1812, Mexican War, Civil War and other various conflicts were not military? 

[mikeylikey]

^^ You are right, but they were all rolled into the National Guard.  I always thought that the NG should be wearing state nametapes instead of "US Army/Air Force".  Not until they get called to Active duty should they be considered Federal Assets. 

[NAYBOR]

The MDDF do hold real commissions/enlistments, from the Govornor of Maryland, just as NG troops do.  NG troops hold federal commissions/enlistments in addition to the state.  MDDF soldiers are recongized by the federal government, as SDF soldiers, authorized under USC 32 section 109.  They are REAL military, in the State of Maryland, subject to the Maryland Military Code of Justice, anytime one is on duty at all, coming or going to drill, paid or unpaid, just like the federal force.  They can also be used in other states if governors of other states ask.  I am continuing on for my PsyD.  I have looked into going back to ANG or AFR.  They are downsizing officers like CRAZY, but are extremely hurting for pilots.  My brother-in-law, who is soon to be a major in the NC ANG, keeps asking me the same thing.  The MDDF has a med unit that I can really make a difference in, continue as a REAL officer with my REAL commission, and go from there.  I plan to transfer commission after obtaining the PsyD back to the AF, or to the USPHS.

The MDDF 10MEDRGT is a medical reserve corps unit, recognized by the US Surgeon General (federally recognized, by the head of the USPHS).  While not "federalized" (it is imposible by law for the MDDF unit itself to be "federalized"), they are the only MDDF unit that I know of that went to Louisiana for Katrina to help, and have been out of the country to assist Bosnians.  This is very similar to the NG.  They presently are actively helping our great soldiers coming back from Iraq.  I'll do that, without being paid, in a HEARTBEAT.

I'm not worried about pay, benefits, etc. right now.   I'm just satisfied to really be augmenting the ANG/ARNG in Maryland, and helping the soldiers and people of Maryland.  I will remain as active as I can in CAP too.  If I am activated for state active duty, yes, I would be paid at the same rate as I would be in the federal force.  So it really doesn't matter as far as that is concerned.  I have pay and benefits at my civilian job right now that would cover me if called to active duty too.  It's "win-win" as far as I'm concerned.

[Becks]

He will be a real officer in the MDDF.  Surprised to see such a comment from you.

Whatever man, federal recognition is what makes you a soldier & that's it. Due respect to SDFs (the decent ones), but they aren't the same thing as the reserve component of the US Armed Forces.

Nope sorry, spit and moan all you want you're still wrong.  SDF's are soldiers and are military under law, and frankly that is what it comes down to. 

[DNall]

STATE commissions & STATE military law. That's NOT the same thing. I don't want to get into it much past that. We have one of the top SDFs here, and I promise you it's not remotely the same thing. Being in an SDF doesn't get you priveledges on AAFES, USAA, anything like that. That's cause the state malitia & the US Armed Forces are not the same thing. I'm not trying to insult SDFs, just point out that they are what they are. Which is not the real US military, and is much the same as CAP in meaningful status.

My point is you can come in the national guard & be a federally recognized officer, which which will count down the road. You'll get significant benefits & future retirement that you can't & won't get form the MDDF. I think you should at least examine your options.

[RiverAux]

Jeeze, every single post you're promoting the pay and benefits of being in the NG...I think its about a little bit more than monetary concerns....

[md132]

NAYBOR, 

I am with the MDDF and a member of CAP.  If there is anything I can help you with please feel free to let me know.  I am assigned to MDDF HQ.

[DNall]

I would do some checking on progression within the SDF as well. Most have rules requiring you to have been a prior-service federally recognized US military officer in order to promote above a certian point.

Jeeze, every single post you're promoting the pay and benefits of being in the NG...I think its about a little bit more than monetary concerns....

Monetary to me means pay, not as much the educational benefits & retirement that can't be easily had elsewhere. I would be offended if someone told me I or anyone in the guard was doing it for monetary benefits. I'm not there for the benefits either, but I'd hardly turn them down. If given the choice of having a much greater impact while getting benefits versus playing second fiddle as a volunteer & paying for almost everything myself, which of those seems right?

There are several national guard officers on here that can speak for their own experience. In my case, the commissioning route & flight school program I'm on is the very longest option one could choose from. My training, accounting for all pay/benefits/etc, results in a net LOSS of over $75k in lost wages from my civilian job, plus additional expenses.

2wks at Ft Sam Houston for a direct commissioning course with other medical folks is the very shortest route (shorter even than chaplains & lawyers), and would be least invasive. Then afterwards you'd be a much more highly respected officer with advanced education options that would otherwise cost tens of thousands of dollars or more, and there's a retirement at the end.

Again, I'm not saying anything against SDFs. They got something good going with the guard that most of us would like to get going in CAP on the federal side to aid the AF. You can find me repeatedly around here saying Auxiliary means federal level SDF & we need to get our act together & work w/ AF (and Congress as necessary) to make that happen in the future.

I'm just saying this particular guy is young enough & with the right qualifications that he could come in the national guard for a few years & not have it impact his life any more or less than the MDDF, but with significant & life changing things given back in return. If he then wants to come out to the MDDF, then he'll do so with a background that allows him to do a lot more there rather than be limited out & then it be too late for the guard/res officer experience they demand.

[Becks]

STATE commissions & STATE military law. That's NOT the same thing. I don't want to get into it much past that. We have one of the top SDFs here, and I promise you it's not remotely the same thing. Being in an SDF doesn't get you priveledges on AAFES, USAA, anything like that.

Again though...no one is saying they are US Armed Forces.  When it comes down to it however, if you are in a state with both CAP and a SDF at the end of the day a SDF is military on paper and CAP is not, end of story.
Military does not = Federal Armed Forces only. 

Check back in history and look at militias and how they served. 
Under your logic then the NG (Also a militia) is not "military" when they are not federalized because they are state soldiers normally.  They serve the Governor unless federalized, exactly as the SDF does.
Different military, different stuff.

[DNall]

Again though...no one is saying they are US Armed Forces.  When it comes down to it however, if you are in a state with both CAP and a SDF at the end of the day a SDF is military on paper and CAP is not, end of story.

Respectfully... That depends VERY much on your personal definition of "military," and whom in the US armed forces you ask.

My questions...
1) as a member of the MDDF, which has the purpose of supporting the NG, and while they are suffering an extreme & critical shortage of officers, why on earth would you encourage anyone to come into your second line support org rather than be straight with them about takinging a tour with a guard unit.

2) If a person wanted to serve their state in a military capacity & make the most impact, why would they go to the SDF rather than the guard? They would get basically the same position, be required basically the same training, but the SDF unit will be severely limited compared to guard troops. Then if this person wants to progress in the SDF they may not be able to because they've not served as a federal military officer like they would be in the guard.

3) Then you just sell the benefits out like they're nothing. Hay man, in civilian life through some very hard work & good luck, I've ended up doing pretty good for myself, but doing roughly the same thing in the same uniform for the same people & I have the choice of getting paid/benefits or not, I think paid is probably the way to go. It may only offset what I have to put in myself, but that's more than I can say for CAP or an SDF.

4) Is there something wrong with advising a person to examine the guard option, asking them to compare & contrast the two things, then make a sound decision? Is there some reason that advising them to skip that examination & go straight to the SDF is better advice?

[RiverAux]

Everyone who knows about an SDF probably already knows 10x as much about the NG as they do about the SDF.  There is no need to sell the NG to them, in fact I would bet that many of the folks who join an SDF who are young enough to join the NG are probably joining the SDF because of some disqualifying factor that kept them out of the NG in the first place. 

[Becks]

Again though...no one is saying they are US Armed Forces.  When it comes down to it however, if you are in a state with both CAP and a SDF at the end of the day a SDF is military on paper and CAP is not, end of story.

Respectfully... That depends VERY much on your personal definition of "military," and whom in the US armed forces you ask.

My questions...
1) as a member of the MDDF, which has the purpose of supporting the NG, and while they are suffering an extreme & critical shortage of officers, why on earth would you encourage anyone to come into your second line support org rather than be straight with them about takinging a tour with a guard unit.

2) If a person wanted to serve their state in a military capacity & make the most impact, why would they go to the SDF rather than the guard? They would get basically the same position, be required basically the same training, but the SDF unit will be severely limited compared to guard troops. Then if this person wants to progress in the SDF they may not be able to because they've not served as a federal military officer like they would be in the guard.

3) Then you just sell the benefits out like they're nothing. Hay man, in civilian life through some very hard work & good luck, I've ended up doing pretty good for myself, but doing roughly the same thing in the same uniform for the same people & I have the choice of getting paid/benefits or not, I think paid is probably the way to go. It may only offset what I have to put in myself, but that's more than I can say for CAP or an SDF.

4) Is there something wrong with advising a person to examine the guard option, asking them to compare & contrast the two things, then make a sound decision? Is there some reason that advising them to skip that examination & go straight to the SDF is better advice?

1&2:
I assume a lot of it has to deal with they may either disqualify for the NG, have other commitments,or believe it or not, not everyone wants an 18 month deployment to the sandbox.
3. Yes benefits are nice, but don't mean everything to everyone.  Look at CAP, its not military, but it is dedication of time with little to no benefits.  Some people simply serve to serve in their own way, not serving because of what is in it for them.
4. And no there is nothing wrong with telling them about the NG but like River said, most SDF troops already know about the NG and in the SDF and not the NG for their own reasons, not out of ignorance about the NG.

[DNall]

1&2:
I assume a lot of it has to deal with they may either disqualify for the NG, have other commitments,or believe it or not, not everyone wants an 18 month deployment to the sandbox.

I understand all that, that's all valid. Depending on the job they come in under it may well be something that never gets deployed, but that's up to them. Again, valid reasons, but not things that should be assumed about a person. If they appear qualified for the guard, then they should be encouraged to look there first. That should be the standing policy your SDF recrtuiters are following as well.

3. Yes benefits are nice, but don't mean everything to everyone.  Look at CAP, its not military, but it is dedication of time with little to no benefits.  Some people simply serve to serve in their own way, not serving because of what is in it for them.

Understood, and my benefits don't help me much, but it deserves serious consideration. In the case of medical fields, including mgmt, the benefits for things like graduate education are massive. The things you can do to serve are also massively bigger than with the SDF.

4. And no there is nothing wrong with telling them about the NG but like River said, most SDF troops already know about the NG and in the SDF and not the NG for their own reasons, not out of ignorance about the NG.

Again, I understand that. However, I think a lot of people, especially in this situation, don't understand they could get a direct commision in a couple weeks like a nurse would rather than several months of OCS. The first thing an SDF should do on hearing from someone that appears qualified is to put them in front of a guard recruiter & encourage them to go that way. IF & WHEN they decide for their own reasons that the SDF is for them & the guard isn't , then that's completely fine, but the SDF shouldn't be openly sold to them as an alternative or competitor. If the SDF is seen by the guard in that light then it will cease to exist right away.

The guard needs officers real bad. We're short 10,550 company grade officers, and most of that is NOT in combat arms. Most of it is in fields like medical support & administration or other related fields. The reserves were so bad last year they were direct commissioning people w/ no prior serive & sending them to flight school or any other branch they wanted. It's nuts. The enlisted side is okay with all the bonus money they're throwing around, but they are desperate for officers in all fields, and if you;re qualified & want to help your state, I would strongly suggest you give that a good hard look before proceeding to other options.

[RiverAux]

The first thing an SDF should do on hearing from someone that appears qualified is to put them in front of a guard recruiter & encourage them to go that way. IF & WHEN they decide for their own reasons that the SDF is for them & the guard isn't , then that's completely fine, but the SDF shouldn't be openly sold to them as an alternative or competitor.

So are you advising your cadets to join the AF upon their 18th birthday?  Sending all potential CAP recruits under 40 to the AF recruiter? 

[Becks]

If they appear qualified for the guard, then they should be encouraged to look there first. That should be the standing policy your SDF recrtuiters are following as well.

This is in fact exactly what we do in SCSG.  Most of our recruiting drives our tables are right next to our NG counterparts, and in fact one of our recruiters is both SDF and NG.  We make sure there are no confusions about what people are joining.

[NAYBOR]

DNall, is that short fall of officers in the ARNG, or ANG?  I was told the ANG was BLEEDING officers to get rid of them.  Heck, if the ARNG will take me in the medical services corps, I'd go, but I don't think they will.  I have an MS in Psych, no license (only state certs).  I understand one has to have an MSW with license, or PhD/PsyD with license to be a clinician.  If there is some way that I can directly commission as a mental health professional in the ARNG with an MS in Psych [no license] great!  I have been told, at least by the ANG, that I cannot.

I have been told that I CAN be an MDDF soldier as a mental health professional, which is what I really want to do.  It will give me a chance to also see what the "Army side" may be like.  I can finish my doctorate without the fear of having to be deployed to the sandbox.  It will also help me to shed the pounds I need to since being a nice, svelt AFROTC cadet (nothing a month of two of eating right and excercising can't handle).  Does the military still have a maximum of how many kids you can have before NOT being considered to directly commission?  It used to be two max.

MD132, hello!  I look forward to hopefully working with you.  Right now Col. Nelson is looking into whether I need a waiver, since I live out-of state, but sounds positve and encouraging.  We'll see what happens...

[DNall]

The ANG is NOT bleeding, active duty is. However, ANG is part of the total AF concept, so ANG has to meet the same standards as active. That's MUCH higher standards. The ARNG is desperate like nobody's business. I know a guy with an associates in general studies & two-years as a drug sales rep that they wanted to direct commission as a medical admin officer. You want in as a mental health medical officer though, I csdon't knwo the answer to that. I can't speak for the flexibility of the standards or how desperate Md is in that area. If it were my state then I could give you an answer, but the best I can do is direct you to the AMEDD or officer strength mgr. You can talk to any recruiter, but I'd recommend their boss's boss's boss the Bn CC for straight answers. Just ask & find out is all I'm saying, and be a little flexible.

It might be that they commision you a 2Lt to med admin then pay you $1280/mo per diem plus 350 drill pay whil;e in non-deployable status to do nothing but get your doctorate, and then you can switch to the mental health job.... that's worse case though as far as I can tell. You need to explore your options with people qualified to answer your questions. I'm only qualified to tell you to ask!!!

Far as kids on a commission, yes, but EVERYTHING is in flux since 9/11 and EVERYTHING is waiverable now. Just spend a couple hours on the net figureing out the questions you want tot ask & then give a recruiter a couple days to answer them after meeting with you, then make a sound decision, that's all I'm asking.

[md132]

NAYBOR,

I'm sure that won't be a problem.  COL (MD) Nelson is great.  He takes cares of his people.  I look forward to meet you as well.  I appologize for not getting to you sooner though.   COL (MD) Nelson will definately get back to you is he's able to get you a waiver.  Feel free to PM if you have any questions about MDDF.

[ColonelJack]

The guard needs officers real bad. We're short 10,550 company grade officers, and most of that is NOT in combat arms. Most of it is in fields like medical support & administration or other related fields. The reserves were so bad last year they were direct commissioning people w/ no prior serive & sending them to flight school or any other branch they wanted. It's nuts. The enlisted side is okay with all the bonus money they're throwing around, but they are desperate for officers in all fields, and if you;re qualified & want to help your state, I would strongly suggest you give that a good hard look before proceeding to other options.

Hm.  Qualified?  Sounds like "if you're breathing and have a college degree, you're qualified."     Seriously, I'd love to serve in the Guard, but I'm too old (48) and, while I would exceed the education requirements (I have all but a dissertation and some class work on my doctorate), I don't think I meet the physical requirements.  But it would still be nice if I were somehow eligible.

Jack

[DNall]

Hm.  Qualified?  Sounds like "if you're breathing and have a college degree, you're qualified."    

That's not said out loud, but I've known people to pass physicals with a broken leg & the board selection rate is nearly 100%.

The cutoff is 42, MINUS any years of federal military service, and you have to be able to serve a total of 20 years (counting previous service) before you turn 60. You don't have to servet hat long obviously, they just can't commission you without giving you the chance to get a retirement. If you can get yourself physically qualified though & don't have any felonies or outstanding warrants then you'll be fine. Need 60hrs to start OCS, 90 to commission, degree by Capt.

[NAYBOR]

.

[DNall]

Just as an aside... It's really ashame CAP members seek out other options like this cause CAP can't get their crap together & offer similiar units.

I'm glad you're looking at all the options though, that's all I ask, and then whichever direction you choose I support you 100%, just so you've made the smart considered decision that's right for you.

There's pros & cons to the ANG versus ARNG, but less so on the guard side than active. There still are some big differences, but a lot of that is going to be a personal judgement on what the best for is for you. Whatever you choose, best of luck to you.

I'd offer to do a referal, which could get me a couple grand if you decide to sign up (which I give to CAP), but I'm gone on Friday & won't really be able to follow up & help you out in the process as much as I'd like. So just check it out & if you have any questions feel free to drop me a line.

[flyguy06]

The State Defense Frce is not the real military. They are volunteers that augment the National Guard when we get mobilized. Most soldiers in the Guard never even heard of the state militia. I Have never heard of such a thing in my life. I never even heard of the SDF until I came home from Iraq last year. And I have ben in the Guard for 18 years.

[Becks]

The State Defense Frce is not the real military. They are volunteers that augment the National Guard when we get mobilized. Most soldiers in the Guard never even heard of the state militia. I Have never heard of such a thing in my life. I never even heard of the SDF until I came home from Iraq last year. And I have ben in the Guard for 18 years.

What state are you from, out of curiousity?

[DNall]

The State Defense Frce is not the real military. They are volunteers that augment the National Guard when we get mobilized. Most soldiers in the Guard never even heard of the state militia. I Have never heard of such a thing in my life. I never even heard of the SDF until I came home from Iraq last year. And I have ben in the Guard for 18 years.

What state are you from, out of curiousity?

He's in Ga ARNG, and before yall even get into this let me re-state this & either understand it or agree to disagree & lets get past it shall we, please?

Again though...no one is saying they are US Armed Forces.  When it comes down to it however, if you are in a state with both CAP and a SDF at the end of the day a SDF is military on paper and CAP is not, end of story.

Respectfully... That depends VERY much on your personal definition of "military," and whom in the US armed forces you ask.

[Becks]

I was just curious    I know GA has an SDF but I dont know much about them.

Oh, did you get my Email Dnall?

[DNall]

I did, you're nominated now, and I'll be on the phone with officer accessions in the morning to make sure the right people get in touch with you.

In your case as well, I'd strongly encourage you to explore all your options & make the informed choice that's right for you. I'd also encourage you to take charge of your own destiny, to be proactive in getting yourself informed & being on the ball with those you encounter who may not be motivated to help some guy off the street, but if you impress them then it's a different story. I'm happy to offer my advice & insight from the experience, and you're equally welcome to take or ignore it as you see fit.

I addressed your other questions in my email.

[flyguy06]

I am in the GA ARNG. Yes, we have a SDF. They did supoport stuff when we deployed to Iraq and when we came home, they di dlittle tasks like road guard and delievering drinks and snacks for soldiers. Soldiers were wondering who and what they were. I just happened to go up to one and ask. I also remember them in 2004 during the G8 conference basically doing the same thing, support type stuff. They were nice people but in no way shape or form do we consider them the actual military. They are volunteers just like CAP. I see them at airshows doing security. And I thin its great for them to want to get invovlved. But again, Are we required to offer the same customs and curteousies that we rener to mililtary officers? I dont think so. I could be wrong, but in my 18 years inthe military I have never been briefed on the SDF from official channels.

[mikeylikey]

^^ Are these SDF Officers appointed by the Governor, and if so do they receive the same state Commission that the NG Officers receive in that state?  If so, then by all means would a National Guard Officer from that state be required to salute an Officer senior to them. 

There are National Guard Officers that are not given federal recognition of their state Commissions if I remember correctly.  Aren't these the Officers that have to sign;
         CPT J DOE
         FA, (NY)

Just using New York as an example.

They are just as much an Officer as the next guy.  Granted My Commission is from the President, theirs is from a Governor.  Lets not forget, 150 years ago, ALL Commissioned military Officers were required to have a State Commission.  The only exception were Naval and Military Academy Graduates who made up the "Active duty Officer Component". 

Out of respect for the Rank, it would be proper to salute an SDF Officer if (IF) they in fact receive a State Commission.  It would be even more prudent for a NG Officer to salute an SDF Officer from the same state.

[DeputyDog]

They were nice people but in no way shape or form do we consider them the actual military. They are volunteers just like CAP.

Then you have a problem. The GaSDF is legally a part of the "organized militia" in Georgia (which includes the Georgia National Guard), and they are subject to the very same State Code of Military Justice that the Georgia National Guard is subject to when under state orders.

But again, Are we required to offer the same customs and curteousies that we rener to mililtary officers? I dont think so.

If you are Georgia National Guard under state orders you are required to.

I could be wrong, but in my 18 years inthe military I have never been briefed on the SDF from official channels.

It sounds like there is an education problem in the Georgia National Guard. If you read the Georgia state codes involving military affairs (Section 38-2-23, and Sections 38-2-50 through 38-2-55) and National Guard Regulation 10-4, then you could consider yourself "briefed from official channels".

They were nice people but in no way shape or form do we consider them the actual military.

Fortunately, the State of Georgia disagrees with you and whomever believes that. State law and the Georgia Department of Defense lists them as "state military" (which coincidentally the Georgia National Guard is when on state orders).

[flyguy06]

You are getting way deeper in the weeds than the average soldiers needs to get. Sorry, but all those codes you referenced? never read them. All I know iand do is wat we are told. Not trying to make excuses. But the comon soldier doesnt spend his time reading National Guard regulation 10-4 section 38-2-whatever you said.Please do not comment on my state. You know nothing about my state or my unit or me for that matter. Thanks.

[flyguy06]

For all of you not in the military you have to understand something. From these posts, you guys get deep into the weeds of stuff. Saluting is not really a priority. If a soldier ca do his job to standard is what we are concerned with. We dont have hour long converstaions about who should salute who. We have hour long converstaions about can this soldier get his Bradley up  ready to fight or Can we get the Company qualified for the year. I spend my drill weekends writing OPORD's for a drill 3 months into the future. Thats our focus not trival things like who should salute whom or who comes to attention. Thats cadet stuff

[stillamarine]

You are getting way deeper in the weeds than the average soldiers needs to get. Sorry, but all those codes you referenced? never read them. All I know iand do is wat we are told. Not trying to make excuses. But the comon soldier doesnt spend his time reading National Guard regulation 10-4 section 38-2-whatever you said.Please do not comment on my state. You know nothing about my state or my unit or me for that matter. Thanks.

I'm reminded of something I was told a long time ago when I was but a young Marine PFC....."Ignorance does not beget an excuse"

And as for him not knowing anything about your state? Seems he does if he can name the State Codes and NGRs that you as an "18 year" Veteran should know.

[stillamarine]

For all of you not in the military you have to understand something. From these posts, you guys get deep into the weeds of stuff. Saluting is not really a priority. If a soldier ca do his job to standard is what we are concerned with. We dont have hour long converstaions about who should salute who. We have hour long converstaions about can this soldier get his Bradley up  ready to fight or Can we get the Company qualified for the year. I spend my drill weekends writing OPORD's for a drill 3 months into the future. Thats our focus not trival things like who should salute whom or who comes to attention. Thats cadet stuff

In the old days I would say this is because you are in the NG and most NG members were sloppy. That's because I was AD and thought it was so by the reservists I saw every year at Lejeune.  Nowadays I have a higher respect for the NG and Reserves because they are deploying just as much as we did.  But to say saluting doesn't matter??  Back to that thought of sloppiness.

[DeputyDog]

You are getting way deeper in the weeds than the average soldiers needs to get. Sorry, but all those codes you referenced? never read them.

Then read them. They take less than five minutes to read. You are correct in that the average soldier doesn't need to know them. An officer does.

[DeputyDog]

For all of you not in the military you have to understand something. From these posts, you guys get deep into the weeds of stuff. Saluting is not really a priority.

It is not about saluting. Imagine yourself taking a part of your unit to a disaster response. A GaSDF Major runs up to you and gives you an order to redirect three blocks over. Do you follow his order? You and him are on state orders, but you have no clue what the GaSDF is. See a problem?

[DeputyDog]

I'm reminded of something I was told a long time ago when I was but a young Marine PFC....."Ignorance does not beget an excuse"

I learned the same thing in the same place on the same channel. Gunnery Sergeants are scary when you say, "I don't know, Gunnery Sergeant!"

"Why don't you know,...PFC?"

[mikeylikey]

I spend my drill weekends writing OPORD's for a drill 3 months into the future. Thats our focus not trivial things like who should salute whom or who comes to attention. Thats cadet stuff

Wow....I can write an OPORD in under two hours as well as get a WARNO out during that time.  I could do it quicker when I wrote for Company and below.....writing for Battalion is a little more in depth.  As far as trivial things...... I don't know what backwoods unit you are part of, but Customs and Courtesies is the area that makes the military the military.  If we did not have C&C, the structure would breakdown and we would not be effective in waging war.  Sure there was a lot of emphasis placed on C&C in "cadet land" (ROTC/WEST POINT) as well as in basic training, but we still have "refresher" classes (and hip-pocket training) on the subjects.  

A huge part of the Duty day in the Army is steeped in tradition.  Cannon fire, retreat ceremony....etc.  Hell......I am not that person that goes looking for salutes, but when a PVT fails to salute me or, fails to say the appropriate greeting for the unit, I stop them and make them aware of their mistake.  

Question......In your unit does everyone call each other by their first name.  Such as Private Jones calling the Captain by his first name?  Just wanted to know since trivial things like that don't matter to you.

[DNall]

I tried to defuse this before it got started but apparently no one wanted to listen, maybe I should try again... If an SDF is considered the military or not depends HIGHLY on one's personal definition of what the "military" is.

I do not personally consider state malitia or state commission to fall in that category. In the same way a bunch of guys with shotguns running of looters are not the police, even if legally justified in doing so & even if temporarily deputized by LE. I consider troops that are not free to leave service on demand & may be forced to deploy against their will, that have a federal mission at the disposal of the President, that may involve foreign combat zones.... that's the military & anyone not sharing in those risks/obligations is not. Tht's my opinion, others have their own view of the techincalities. I don't think it does us a lot of good to argue about it. Can we get beyond it, PLEASE?

It is not about saluting. Imagine yourself taking a part of your unit to a disaster response. A GaSDF Major runs up to you and gives you an order to redirect three blocks over. Do you follow his order? You and him are on state orders, but you have no clue what the GaSDF is. See a problem?

This is a larger issue, and I can tell you that most NG officers would not follow that order regardless of legality, unless they were briefed that SDF would be not just in the area but placed in their chain of command. An SDF officer issuing orders to NG troops under any cicumstance is the same as a CAP officer screaming at an AF Amn for not saluting him.

Now that said, the SDF gets a little more play I think than CAP does because you know that at least on a certain level that the senior NCOs & field grade officers are retired NCOs & officers respectively. The rest of the organization may or may not be, but is dominated by prior-service. There are a lot of pros/cons between CAP and an SDF. There are things they do that we in CAP would live very much to get established to complete what's missing in our assistance to the federal AF, and likewise they'd sure like a defined mission like the SaR we have. Though similiar in many ways, they are still fundamentally different. But, like much of this thread, it's not a point that can be argued.

[flyguy06]

For all of you not in the military you have to understand something. From these posts, you guys get deep into the weeds of stuff. Saluting is not really a priority. If a soldier ca do his job to standard is what we are concerned with. We dont have hour long converstaions about who should salute who. We have hour long converstaions about can this soldier get his Bradley up  ready to fight or Can we get the Company qualified for the year. I spend my drill weekends writing OPORD's for a drill 3 months into the future. Thats our focus not trival things like who should salute whom or who comes to attention. Thats cadet stuff

In the old days I would say this is because you are in the NG and most NG members were sloppy. That's because I was AD and thought it was so by the reservists I saw every year at Lejeune.  Nowadays I have a higher respect for the NG and Reserves because they are deploying just as much as we did.  But to say saluting doesn't matter??  Back to that thought of sloppiness.

I never said saluting didnt matter. I said we focus on more important isues. This conversation has gone on for 3 pages talking about a very trivial issue. I could really care less if a D+SDF guy salutes me or if I salute him. I care about soldiers and soldiers training. Thats what I am passionate about or else I wouldnt be inthis line of work. And for the record. I was an active duty 11B soldier for three years. But again, thats not the issue.

[flyguy06]

I spend my drill weekends writing OPORD's for a drill 3 months into the future. Thats our focus not trivial things like who should salute whom or who comes to attention. Thats cadet stuff

Wow....I can write an OPORD in under two hours as well as get a WARNO out during that time.  I could do it quicker when I wrote for Company and below.....writing for Battalion is a little more in depth.  As far as trivial things...... I don't know what backwoods unit you are part of, but Customs and Courtesies is the area that makes the military the military.  If we did not have C&C, the structure would breakdown and we would not be effective in waging war.  Sure there was a lot of emphasis placed on C&C in "cadet land" (ROTC/WEST POINT) as well as in basic training, but we still have "refresher" classes (and hip-pocket training) on the subjects.  

A huge part of the Duty day in the Army is steeped in tradition.  Cannon fire, retreat ceremony....etc.  Hell......I am not that person that goes looking for salutes, but when a PVT fails to salute me or, fails to say the appropriate greeting for the unit, I stop them and make them aware of their mistake.  

Question......In your unit does everyone call each other by their first name.  Such as Private Jones calling the Captain by his first name?  Just wanted to know since trivial things like that don't matter to you.

In an SF unit they do. In my unit they do not

[flyguy06]

I spend my drill weekends writing OPORD's for a drill 3 months into the future. Thats our focus not trivial things like who should salute whom or who comes to attention. Thats cadet stuff

Wow....I can write an OPORD in under two hours as well as get a WARNO out during that time.  I could do it quicker when I wrote for Company and below.....writing for Battalion is a little more in depth.  As far as trivial things...... I don't know what backwoods unit you are part of, but Customs and Courtesies is the area that makes the military the military.  If we did not have C&C, the structure would breakdown and we would not be effective in waging war.  Sure there was a lot of emphasis placed on C&C in "cadet land" (ROTC/WEST POINT) as well as in basic training, but we still have "refresher" classes (and hip-pocket training) on the subjects.  

A huge part of the Duty day in the Army is steeped in tradition.  Cannon fire, retreat ceremony....etc.  Hell......I am not that person that goes looking for salutes, but when a PVT fails to salute me or, fails to say the appropriate greeting for the unit, I stop them and make them aware of their mistake.  

Question......In your unit does everyone call each other by their first name.  Such as Private Jones calling the Captain by his first name?  Just wanted to know since trivial things like that don't matter to you.

I'm talking about a Battalion OPORD. Plus the Guard is different than active duty. We plan 120 days in advance. In other words Next month I will be planning for October drill. A lot of coordination goes into it.

Anyway, I am done with this thread. I dont think I have made my point clear. You all are caught up on who salutes who and who wears what uniform. and stuff. Really it comes down to soldier prepardness. Thats my focus anyway. I have been an actuve duty NCO and curently a Guard officer. i have seen both worlds and love it.

[Becks]

Yup, like DNall said, I think everyone should just drop it and agree to disagree if needed, this thread is going no where.