(http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/sealdkit/CAPP5.jpg)
Note this thing has the USAF crest and the CAP...yet, there was much discussion and debate over it now.
And of course...
The "Pepsi Cola," as cheesy as it looked, did seem to stress USAF Auxiliary.
(http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/sealdkit/CAPP3.jpg)
Progress?
I know the nature of CAP was changed via legislation not too far back and I have spoken with CAP-USAF people at the highest levels about it and am solid CAP and USAF are "on good terms." But...what was different about 1950s-60s CAP that we were"trusted?"
Also, we have US lapels on our Air Force Style uniforms...they had CAP.
(http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/sealdkit/CAP2.jpg)
Strange what is kept, what is added and what is disgarded.
BTW, this is just an observation...a juxaposition of then an now based on this e-bay auction I found.
Nice to see the ID's looked like library cards way back when, too.
I like the buttons on the khaki service coat. Not that I particularly care to change out my Hap Arnold buttons which I also like.
I is my hope that one of us, maybe an Historian of more significant means than I, might snatch it up...
http://cgi.ebay.com/BIG-GROUPING-CAP-CIVIL-AIR-PATROL-WW2-LT-COLONEL-WINGS_W0QQitemZ110107727863QQcategoryZ4729QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/BIG-GROUPING-CAP-CIVIL-AIR-PATROL-WW2-LT-COLONEL-WINGS_W0QQitemZ110107727863QQcategoryZ4729QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Joe:
On the national website, there are some links to old uniform manuals and a National Geographic article on the CAP uniform insignia that was published in 1942.
Back of ID card shown on eBay (1950-51): Unauthorized use is against Federal law.
Front of ID card shown:
The member named on the back of this card is voluntarily enlisted in the CIVIL AIR PATROL and is authorized to wear the uniform prescribed for CAP by the Department of the Air Force.
Armed Forces, Police and Civil Authorities are requested to cooperate with this member in the performance of his duties.
/s/ L?, Major General USAF, National Commander
This card is Government property, and will be shown on demand.
***
Back of current ID card:
This card is the property of Civil Air Patrol and will be surrendered when requested by proper authority.
Front: Nothing other than the name of the organization.
Repeating the thread title: SO...what is the big deal now that they didn't have then?
Mike
Major Joe.....The current high bidder for that uniform is the Southeast Region Historian.
SARDak....The signature on the back is MGen Lucas V Beau. BUT the front of the ID was changed and the USAF seal was removed one one version and the CAP Seal was put in it's place. (on 1954 version ID card)
Quote from: BillB on March 31, 2007, 03:25:34 AM
Major Joe.....The current high bidder for that uniform is the Southeast Region Historian.
SARDak....The signature on the back is MahGen Lucas V Beau. BUT the front of the ID was changed and the USAF seal was removed one one version and the CAP Seal was put in it's place. (on 1954 version ID card)
Excellent!!! I'm glad it will likely go to CAP hands.
Too bad the back of the current go back to the old.
Am I the only one thinking, "back to the future"?
Quote from: Eclipse on March 31, 2007, 01:55:21 AM
Nice to see the ID's looked like library cards way back when, too.
Are you referring to the top one - a membership card, not unlike what we get each year when we renew, or the bottom one - a proper ID card, very similar to the regular military IDs of the day?
Actually, my USN ID cards looked like that all the way through the 80s. The format changed just before or just after I retired.
Give us back the old.
Now that's the uniform I remember to include the Pepsi cola patch. Our seniors wore the metal ranks on their blouses (that's what we called the coat). Of course that privilege was taken away when some CAP officer tried dressing down some airman for not saluting him. Took the AF a long time to get over that one.
As a cadet we wore khaki in the summer and blues in the winter and our stripes were on our sleeves. I even wore the old Ike jacket. "Them were the good old days" ;D :clap:
Brian Billing, Major, CAP
Dep. Cmdr for Sr's
Sqdrn 47
Hey, if we form a "CAP Heritage" group, can we all go back to wearing "historical" uniforms with blue eps and metal rank? ;D
I love it! ;D
Quote from: Major Carrales on March 31, 2007, 02:28:16 AM
I is my hope that one of us, maybe an Historian of more significant means than I, might snatch it up...
http://cgi.ebay.com/BIG-GROUPING-CAP-CIVIL-AIR-PATROL-WW2-LT-COLONEL-WINGS_W0QQitemZ110107727863QQcategoryZ4729QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/BIG-GROUPING-CAP-CIVIL-AIR-PATROL-WW2-LT-COLONEL-WINGS_W0QQitemZ110107727863QQcategoryZ4729QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
I purchased the items you have shown. I have used them as a display at a couple of events. The uniform even fits me.
Quote from: LtCol White on May 17, 2007, 07:56:35 PM
Hey, if we form a "CAP Heritage" group, can we all go back to wearing "historical" uniforms with blue eps and metal rank? ;D
We actually do have a re-enactment group up in Philadelphia. They have the planes and uniforms. I have the khaki uniform I wear when doing historical presentations to some groups. I even wore it to the GAWG conference a few weeks ago.
I had one of those ID cards when I turned senior in July of 1954. Can't find it now. It looked almost like the Air Force ID at that time not like a library card. In the early 60 s they changed it. It didn't look like a Military ID. The blouse(service coat) used in the early sixties was referred to as silver tans and were made of Dacron. Believe it or not I have the complete uniform. I gained about 3 inches in my waist since 1960 so I would need to lose them before I could wear it. I get q kick out of those out there that are upset about changes in CAP. I have seen more then I care to talk about but we always survived. As you can figure out by my ID I have been around since 1953. The reason we lost the metal rank and blue epaulets was a CAP BG decided to promote himself to MG. Shortly there after we ended up Wit marone and no metal rank. I have to do this more often. I see a lot incorrect information being moved around. Semper Vigilans
I believe that incident happened during the 60's while I was away doing the AF thing. I heard it as someone chewing out an active duty airman. I defer to your version since you are, after all, my senior. When I came back in '93 we were wearing the maroon epaulets. I thought we'd joined the Salvation Army. And the cadets! My God, we were taking them our of the nursery. ;D
Brian Billing (Grumpy)
Grumpy:
In the 1970's, there was still metal rank. I was doing the active Army thing, but I first saw the maroon epaulets in the mid-80's.
John
You are correct. I can't remember what General it was. But there was a lot of abuse of the rank. Y you know we are going back in things like the design of the command patch which copy's the shoulder patch and insignia of th 40's. Stick around long enough and you will probably see the original RED shoulder tabs.
This might give a hint to when the maroons came into play.
I joined CAP in 1985...we wore the blue epaulets and hard medal rank. When I came back in 2003 we were in gray epaulets. (missed the whole maroon thing).
One of the major things that pushed the maroons was that there was a CAP member who was impersonating a USAF Major. He persuaded a National Guard Armory to issue him some M-16's and Ammo for cadet training.
Anyway....everyone was embarrassed and the USAF's reaction was to make us look as different as possible.
This was around the time one of our National Commander's decided he needed two stars.
Quote from: lordmonar on May 18, 2007, 12:25:29 AM
I joined CAP in 1985...we wore the blue epaulets and hard medal rank. When I came back in 2003 we were in gray epaulets. (missed the whole maroon thing).
One of the major things that pushed the maroons was that there was a CAP member who was impersonating a USAF Major. He persuaded a National Guard Armory to issue him some M-16's and Ammo for cadet training.
Anyway....everyone was embarrassed and the USAF's reaction was to make us look as different as possible.
This was around the time one of our National Commander's decided he needed two stars.
That was Jeff Klotz. He did more than impersonate and draw a few rifles. However that happened 1999-2000. After the Grey epaulets appeared.
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 18, 2007, 01:15:16 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 18, 2007, 12:25:29 AM
I joined CAP in 1985...we wore the blue epaulets and hard medal rank. When I came back in 2003 we were in gray epaulets. (missed the whole maroon thing).
One of the major things that pushed the maroons was that there was a CAP member who was impersonating a USAF Major. He persuaded a National Guard Armory to issue him some M-16's and Ammo for cadet training.
Anyway....everyone was embarrassed and the USAF's reaction was to make us look as different as possible.
This was around the time one of our National Commander's decided he needed two stars.
That was Jeff Klotz. He did more than impersonate and draw a few rifles. However that happened 1999-2000. After the Grey epaulets appeared.
The maroon came as a result of Gen Harwell promoting himself and having epaulets made then showing up at a meeting where USAF "gave birth" when they saw it.
Quote from: LtCol White on May 18, 2007, 01:26:36 AM
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 18, 2007, 01:15:16 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 18, 2007, 12:25:29 AM
I joined CAP in 1985...we wore the blue epaulets and hard medal rank. When I came back in 2003 we were in gray epaulets. (missed the whole maroon thing).
One of the major things that pushed the maroons was that there was a CAP member who was impersonating a USAF Major. He persuaded a National Guard Armory to issue him some M-16's and Ammo for cadet training.
Anyway....everyone was embarrassed and the USAF's reaction was to make us look as different as possible.
This was around the time one of our National Commander's decided he needed two stars.
That was Jeff Klotz. He did more than impersonate and draw a few rifles. However that happened 1999-2000. After the Grey epaulets appeared.
The maroon came as a result of Gen Harwell promoting himself and having epaulets made then showing up at a meeting where USAF "gave birth" when they saw it.
Finally...a name to the epaulet. It's always been said as "a national commander."
I always call him EE when he comes up in conversation. 2 E's and 2 Stars, kinda poetic if you ask me...