Restructure CAP ranks: change "SM without grade" members into "Senior Airmen"

Started by supertigerCH, October 24, 2018, 08:27:46 PM

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PHall

How about "None of the Above"? This whole question is a solution in search of a "problem" to solve.

Luis R. Ramos

Candidate would be a bad choice. People mostly understand to be a candidate someone that is applying to an organization. Still a candidate after waiting for 20 years? If (s)he was worthy of admission, (s)he would have been accepted immediately. Why is (s)he still being considered?


Having said that, "senior member as a category is perfectly acceptable. Have you talked with anyone outside the organization that can verify whether there is confusion? No? Stop worrying!


Just like PHall and others have stated, "senior member" is good enough, there is no need to be concerned!



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OldGuy


NC Hokie

I may regret weighing in on this thread, but...

I have always disliked addressing new senior members as Senior Member, and I agree that SM(WOG) is a clumsy attempt to force something into the established rank structure that simply does not fit.  So, if we want to give new senior members a rank (to make addressing them less clumsy, keep eServices from choking on a blank rank field in some database somewhere, etc.), I suggest that we use Airman.

You may now proceed to tear my suggestion apart.

>:D
NC Hokie, Lt Col, CAP

Graduated Squadron Commander
All Around Good Guy

PHall

Quote from: NC Hokie on November 12, 2018, 05:13:14 PM
I may regret weighing in on this thread, but...

I have always disliked addressing new senior members as Senior Member, and I agree that SM(WOG) is a clumsy attempt to force something into the established rank structure that simply does not fit.  So, if we want to give new senior members a rank (to make addressing them less clumsy, keep eServices from choking on a blank rank field in some database somewhere, etc.), I suggest that we use Airman.

You may now proceed to tear my suggestion apart.

>:D

Airman is an actual grade. The opportunity for confusion is great. Why make more problems trying to solve this non-problem?

hfriday

If I'm not mistaken, "airman" is also a catch-all for Air Force personnel, as "soldier" is in the Army, and "Marine" in the USMC. By that logic, "airman" is actually a less cumbersome cognate to our "senior member" terminology anyhow as the USAF Auxiliary. It would be, in my opinion, more comprehensible to outsiders, which is the most compelling issue with SM that I have seen on this thread.

hamburgee

I remember "Officer Candidate" being tossed around in a previous post like this one. However, Senior Member works just fine as stated before... It's been used for years with minimal confusion. I view it as, while all officers are senior members, most have a title: Lieutenant, Captain, et cetera... However, should you not have a title, you're referred to simply as "Senior Member." Just my two cents though.

Additionally: Mr./Ms./Mrs. works fine as well.

Gunsotsu


CAPLTC

"Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they're so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact." -- SECDEF Mattis

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Gunsotsu on November 12, 2018, 07:42:18 PM
Quote from: NC Hokie on November 12, 2018, 05:13:14 PM
I have always disliked addressing new senior members as Senior Member

So call them by their name.

"Senior Member Jones"

That's the appropriate address. --- See CAPP 151, page 16

Shuman 14

Quote from: Gunsotsu on November 10, 2018, 04:09:34 AM
Short of adopting a structure similar to the CGAux, this thread is pointless.

Well if an USCGAux Member is referred to as an Auxiliarist, could a CAP Member be referred to as a Patroller?

In example, "Lieutenant Jones, allow me to introduce Patroller Smith, he is a new Member to our Squadron."
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: 2013 - 2014, 2021 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

THRAWN

5 pages of solutions looking for problems. Instead of changing the title, how about coming up with some kind of insignia? That's the most important thing....
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Eclipse

Quote from: THRAWN on November 14, 2018, 08:58:14 PM
5 pages of solutions looking for problems. Instead of changing the title, how about coming up with some kind of insignia? That's the most important thing....

I suggest a beret.

"That Others May Zoom"

Shuman 14

Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: 2013 - 2014, 2021 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

vorteks

Quote from: shuman14 on November 14, 2018, 08:44:50 PM
Quote from: Gunsotsu on November 10, 2018, 04:09:34 AM
Short of adopting a structure similar to the CGAux, this thread is pointless.

Well if an USCGAux Member is referred to as an Auxiliarist, could a CAP Member be referred to as a Patroller?

In example, "Lieutenant Jones, allow me to introduce Patroller Smith, he is a new Member to our Squadron."

No.

NovemberWhiskey

Quote from: vorteks on November 14, 2018, 09:51:38 PM
Quote from: shuman14 on November 14, 2018, 08:44:50 PM
Well if an USCGAux Member is referred to as an Auxiliarist, could a CAP Member be referred to as a Patroller?

In example, "Lieutenant Jones, allow me to introduce Patroller Smith, he is a new Member to our Squadron."

No.

I would myself find "Patroller Smith" somewhat painful. What's wrong with "Mr Smith", in that case? It's appropriate to use grade when there is one; but if a member doesn't have one then it would also be appropriate to use their title for a formal introduction.

A reasonable response to a form asking for a member's grade would be "none", etc.

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on November 15, 2018, 12:22:29 AM
Quote from: vorteks on November 14, 2018, 09:51:38 PM
Quote from: shuman14 on November 14, 2018, 08:44:50 PM
Well if an USCGAux Member is referred to as an Auxiliarist, could a CAP Member be referred to as a Patroller?

In example, "Lieutenant Jones, allow me to introduce Patroller Smith, he is a new Member to our Squadron."

No.

I would myself find "Patroller Smith" somewhat painful. What's wrong with "Mr Smith", in that case? It's appropriate to use grade when there is one; but if a member doesn't have one then it would also be appropriate to use their title for a formal introduction.

A reasonable response to a form asking for a member's grade would be "none", etc.

They have a grade. It's "Senior Member."

Let's go back and reads the books, folks.


TheSkyHornet


vorteks

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on November 15, 2018, 04:47:40 PM
Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on November 15, 2018, 12:22:29 AM
Quote from: vorteks on November 14, 2018, 09:51:38 PM
Quote from: shuman14 on November 14, 2018, 08:44:50 PM
Well if an USCGAux Member is referred to as an Auxiliarist, could a CAP Member be referred to as a Patroller?

In example, "Lieutenant Jones, allow me to introduce Patroller Smith, he is a new Member to our Squadron."

No.

I would myself find "Patroller Smith" somewhat painful. What's wrong with "Mr Smith", in that case? It's appropriate to use grade when there is one; but if a member doesn't have one then it would also be appropriate to use their title for a formal introduction.

A reasonable response to a form asking for a member's grade would be "none", etc.

They have a grade. It's "Senior Member."

Let's go back and reads the books, folks.

But that's not a grade it's a title. Thus the often referred to "SMWOG".

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