VIP Mentality cited as factor in death of JBLM officer

[Eclipse]

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2014/07/31/3311768/army-vip-culture-led-to-parachute.html

"Wright's tragic fall from an Air Force C-130 plane flying 1,000 feet above the ground in North Carolina was made possible by a string of administrative oversights, according to the investigation. It was also enabled by a "VIP culture" at Fort Bragg, the Army's largest post, that allowed senior officers to make late demands on their subordinates and skip the basic safety briefings junior soldiers must attend."

This is the very definition of "avoidable mishap" - a number of gates and pinch-points designed to prevent or mitigate this
situation were ignored, even at the last minute.

Anyone involved in CAP aviation knows of one or two situations like this where people in a hurry, "knew better" or otherwise
couldn't be bothered unnecessarily risked life or property only to look back and realize the 10 places it could have been prevented. 

CAP's usual savior is that our operations are by design, conservative enough in nature that there is plenty of room in the
envelope for correction when mishaps occur, which is why people get so much deserved push back from more experienced members
when they try to do things which shrink the envelope.

This would make a good CDI discussion, safety briefing, or even just a general training session.

[PHall]

Same thing as the Fairchild B-52 accident. Senior ranking personnel are not held accountable for their actions.
And through the years, it's happened over and over and over again.

[MSG Mac]

This shows an ingrained failure at all levels. What is more disturbing is that, according to the article this same command had a similar incident a few years ago, but since it was only an E-6, there was no rush to implement the same standards. Despite all the rhetoric, they still blamed the packer.

[LSThiker]

The policy of making sure all Soldiers, regardless of rank and workload, is not going to change anything.  It may be followed for 6 months, but it will change back to normal.  I have seen that mentality throughout the entire Army. 

When I was a fresh 2LT, I was placed in charge of a battalion live-fire drive-by exercise.  Brigade commander came out to visit the battalion and wanted to participate in the live-fire.  I told him that the current group was about to leave and that the next safety briefing was going to be in 30 minutes.  The BC  looked at me scornfully and told me that the brigade commander did not need it.  While it may have been the right thing to tell my BC he was wrong, but we all know how that would have went. 

When I was in Iraq, the prison commander required that all Soldiers entering the compound had to have eye protection.  Prison commander forgot his one day and was stopped by the gate guard.  The prison CSM chewed him out for stopping the commander.

No matter what the Soldier does, he is going to be between a rock and a hard place.  Either he enforces the policy and gets chewed out by that O-6 or he ignores it and something like this happens.  It is easy to sit there and say that the policy trumps, but let us be honest, it is not that easy, especially the younger enlisted.

[Garibaldi]

I got no problem telling a senior officer "You don't want to play safe, you don't play. The rules are for everyone, sir. Everyone. Even if MG Carr came by and decide to go fly and bypass the safety brief, he don't fly. Period."

[Flying Pig]

I got no problem telling a senior officer "You don't want to play safe, you don't play. The rules are for everyone, sir. Everyone. Even if MG Carr came by and decide to go fly and bypass the safety brief, he don't fly. Period."

Because in CAP we are all equals... National Commander, Wing CC... whoever.  The military is a vastly different culture and it isn't even comparable when saying "I have no issues telling a senior officer ______________."

[SarDragon]

I worked in test equipment calibration most of the time I was in the Navy. I never had a problem with informing TPTB that I would not, under any circumstances, break the rules regarding safety of flight.

At my last duty station, I had an O-3 demand that I extend the cal cycles on some gear because they were going to be away from a cal facility beyond the expiration dates, and I refused. He threatened to push an Art. 15, and I told him to take it up with my boss, a wizened E-8 who didn't put up with crap like that. Some time later, the same day, the O-3's boss (O-4) came over and, with an entirely different attitude, got his needs met in about 15 minutes. His approach - How can you help me fix this problem? - instead of - Here's what I want you to do.

I will say that such incidents did little to aid any attempts for me to make E-7. 

[LSThiker]

Telling an O-3 is a lot different than a O-5, O-6, O-7, E8, E9.  Especially if they are in a command position.   It will happen again.

[Eclipse]

It may be endemic to military culture, but it's unacceptable in CAP.

In CAP's case, it's usually a "seasoned" pilot or commander who tries to run over some newer
member who has accepted the mantel of gateway.  One only need peruse the 78s to
see all the places that common sense is argued against.

Base black-flagged because of the heat? "Perfect time to get those cadets on the confidence course
because no one else is using it!"

FROs get this all the time. I purposely run the full checklist, as much to gauge the "I know better"
quotient as to need the details.  I also have no incentive to risk my integrity or my house just because you're in a hurry.

It calls back to my "favorite" CAP response "I don't read regs, I read FARs."

[SarDragon]

Telling an O-3 is a lot different than a O-5, O-6, O-7, E8, E9.  Especially if they are in a command position.   It will happen again.

This guy was a mustang, and should have known better.

Opportunities to "counsel" O-4+ have been limited, but I've had similar encounters with all levels of SNCO, and stuck to my guns.

[PHall]

Telling an O-3 is a lot different than a O-5, O-6, O-7, E8, E9.  Especially if they are in a command position.   It will happen again.

This guy was a mustang, and should have known better.

Opportunities to "counsel" O-4+ have been limited, but I've had similar encounters with all levels of SNCO, and stuck to my guns.

Not all Mustangs are good guys. Some are egomaniacs who became officers only so they could show that they were "better" then the rest of us.

[SarDragon]

Telling an O-3 is a lot different than a O-5, O-6, O-7, E8, E9.  Especially if they are in a command position.   It will happen again.

This guy was a mustang, and should have known better.

Opportunities to "counsel" O-4+ have been limited, but I've had similar encounters with all levels of SNCO, and stuck to my guns.

Not all Mustangs are good guys. Some are egomaniacs who became officers only so they could show that they were "better" then the rest of us.

No argument there. 

[Private Investigator]

Telling an O-3 is a lot different than a O-5, O-6, O-7, E8, E9.  Especially if they are in a command position.   It will happen again.

This guy was a mustang, and should have known better.

Opportunities to "counsel" O-4+ have been limited, but I've had similar encounters with all levels of SNCO, and stuck to my guns.

Not all Mustangs are good guys. Some are egomaniacs who became officers only so they could show that they were "better" then the rest of us.

No argument there. 

I agree too  :clap:

[sarmed1]

I'd say it depends on the leader.  We had an exercise once when I lived in AZ (military type)  the Wing CC (a non player) attempted to enter the play area and was stopped by a e-2 or e-3 security forces troop, the wing CC was not on the authorized entry list.  He asked if the troop knew who he was, and he said yes, however, he was still not on the authorized entry list.  The Wing CC (an O-6) informed him to call his supervisor, when he explained to the supervisor the situation, of course the supervisor started to chew out the airman until the CC interrupted, and informed him that he wanted to commend him for a troop doing such a good job.

MK

[Eclipse]

^ You never know when it's a test, either.  Why risk it?

[LSThiker]

I'd say it depends on the leader.  We had an exercise once when I lived in AZ (military type)  the Wing CC (a non player) attempted to enter the play area and was stopped by a e-2 or e-3 security forces troop, the wing CC was not on the authorized entry list.  He asked if the troop knew who he was, and he said yes, however, he was still not on the authorized entry list.  The Wing CC (an O-6) informed him to call his supervisor, when he explained to the supervisor the situation, of course the supervisor started to chew out the airman until the CC interrupted, and informed him that he wanted to commend him for a troop doing such a good job.

MK

True, it always depends on the leader.  Now take that same situation and say the WG/CC never interrupted and the supervisor continued to chew the E2/E3 out.  I bet that Airman or his buddies would not do it again.  Now you have the breakdown again.