Errors, Ambiguities & Conflicts in CAPM 39-1

[jayleswo]

A suggestion for clarification in CAPM 39-1

Fig 2-19 Flight Suit
1. Grade Insignia: Senior members will wear regular size plastic encased grade insignia centered horizontally on top of each shoulder with bottom edge of insignia placed 1/2 inch from shoulder seam. General officers will center plastic grade insignia on shoulder. CAP cutouts will not be worn. Cadets do not wear insignia or cutouts

Clarification needed: ... as measured from the insignia itself or the clear plastic? If from th e insignia, there is not enough space between the insignia and the edge of the plastic - the plastic would overlap the shoulder seam and make it very difficult to seew on.

Fig 2-18: BDU
CAP Aviation Badges and Specialty Insignia: Embroidered, worn 1/2 inch above the cloth "Civil Air Patrol" tape worn over the left breast pocket. If both devices are worn, aviation badges should be 1/2 inch above specialty insignia.

Clarification needed: should all badges sewn above the civil air patrol branch tape be spaced from the insignia or the blue field? Should the blue field the insignia is on be spaced to "touch" each other, meaning there would be 1/2" of blue between insignia?

[jayleswo]

Oops, anothe rone

Fig 4-3 Blue Polo Shirt
NOTES
1. Dark blue knit shirt with embroidered CAP seal on the right breast and embroidered name and aeronautical rating or specialty badge on the left breast.

Clarification needed: I know there is an ICL allowing CAP specialty insignia to be worn. I can't find it but the Knowledgebase changes the text in Note 1 to:

1. Dark blue knit shirt with embroidered CAP seal on the right breast and embroidered name and aeronautical rating or specialty badge on the left breast.

Need to clarify how many badges total can be worn - just one right? Also, specify if only CAP aeronautical rating or any military aeronautical rating can be embroidered on the shirt. I had one member get Vanguard to embroider on USAF Command Pilot wings (took three tries but they finally understood what he was asking, the first two had CAP Command Pilot wings but he sent them back)

[JohnKachenmeister]

There are two tables for precedence of decorations.

One table places them AFTER all US ribbons,

The other table places foreign awards after US Military Awards, but ahead of CAP awards.

But that should be correct.  Foreign "military" awards earned on active duty take precidence over CAP awards.

Pat:

I do not care about the precedence, I am only pointing out the ambiguity.  Table (I think) 5-3 shows the precedence as:

1.  US Military Awards
2.  CAP Awards
3.  Foreign Awards

Table 5-2 shows the same precedence, but includes certain foreign awards among the listed US Military Awards.

So, if I am setting my rack up IAW 5-3, I put my Vietnam Campaign Medal and Vietnam Cross of Gallantry at the bottom of my awards, behind the CAP awards.  That makes sense, since CAP awards are US awards, and should take precedence, IMO, over awards from lesser (and in my case, now non-existant) countries.

But if you read 5-2, the VCG and VCM are listed as "US Military Awards" which they are not.

I called NHQ and I was told that foreign awards earned as a member of the US armed forces count as US awards on the CAP uniform, and the "Foreign decoration" reference in Table 5-3 refers to awards earned as a member of a foreign armed force.

My preference is immaterial.  What should happen is that this regulation should be clarified, and what NHQ explained to me should be written down so everybody knows it. 

[cnitas]

The DoD manual 1348.33 shows that non-military awards go before foreign awards in precedence.   

While CAP is not specifically listed as a non-military organization, I believe it is an appropriate model to follow.

[tjaxe]

Thoughts on changes to 39-1, from a female perspective...

Section 1-5 Paragraph a.
"Female: Short-sleeve light blue blouse; Dark blue skirt or slacks; flight cap; neutral nylon hose; black shoes; black handbag."  Should the word "optional" be included since not all females carry handbags?

Section 1-6 Paragraph b.
The sentence in Section 1-6 Paragraph a. reads, "Articles such as wallets, pencils, pens, watch chains, fobs, pins, jewelry, handkerchiefs, combs, cigars, cigarettes, pipes, and sunglass cases will not be exposed on the uniform." It seems like this sentence should also appear in Section 1-6 Paragraph b.  While such items have less potential to be showing on dress uniforms, since women do not have pockets in their shirts, there is a potential for visibility on BDUs.  This also applies to Section 4-3 Paragraph b, Table 4-3, Line 7 and Table 4-4, Line 5.

Section 1-6 Paragraph b.
"Appropriate undergarments will be worn to present a conservative, feminine appearance." I'm not sure why the adjective "feminine" is needed here.  Actually, shouldn't it just say what it does in most other locations; undergarments are required at all times, or something like that?

Section 1-8 Paragraph e.
"All Air Force uniform garments, footwear, and accouterments that the Defense Personnel Support Center (DPSC) supplies to AAFES military clothing sales stores (MCSS) and conform to Air Force specifications;"  This phrase doesn't make sense to me.  Am I missing something or is it missing a word?

Table 1-3
"Berets provided at special activities may be worn at the activity ONLY."  "Special activities" is pretty generic here.  You might want to add a list of activities and exclude all others, or in some other way narrow down any possible WIDE interpretations.

Figure 2-9. Women's Service Dress Uniform (Senior Members)
From Figure 2-1: "A maximum of four devices may be worn on this uniform with a maximum of two devices worn above the ribbons." This line should be added to Figure 2-9 – unless female uniforms do not permit the same number of devices as the male uniforms.

Figure 2-10. Women's Service Dress Uniform (Cadets)
The New-style Service Dress Uniform is shown first then the Old-style Service Dress Uniform is shown (unless there is an error in wording).  This is opposite to the order given in Figure 2-2; they should be in the same order.

Table 2-1 and Table 2-2, Line 1
Indicate the appropriate shade(s) of color acceptable.  This is also relevant in other locations within the document.

Table 2-1, Line 8
"White socks must not show when crossing legs."  Since men also cross their legs shouldn't this line be added here?  (See Table 2-2, Line 9)

Table 2-1, Line 9
"Wear collar [or] shirt inside or outside sweater."  Should the "or" here in the brackets be "of" instead?

Table 2-2, Line 14
"When not wearing the flight cap but wearing a belt, tuck under the belt on either side, between first and second belt loops;"  Where should the cap be placed when not wearing a belt?


The following is from: MEMORANDUM FOR ALL CAP UNIT COMMANDERS, 29 June 2006

"The male service cap with gray braid on the visor was also approved for wear with its currently authorized service cap device... Females may wear their currently authorized service cap."  So, are women authorized to wear the female service cap AND the male service cap?

"Service coat may also be worn with plain black bow tie at formal occasions where the mess dress may be worn." What do women wear; a tab, a men's bow, the (ugh) floppy bow?

Hope this helps. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

The DoD manual 1348.33 shows that non-military awards go before foreign awards in precedence.   

While CAP is not specifically listed as a non-military organization, I believe it is an appropriate model to follow.

I knew that was always at least the tradition, but I guess there is an official precedent for placing foreign awards behind all US awards.

In any case, the CAP regulation on this issue is unclear and contradictory. 

[sfdefender]

Table 6-5. US Military Badges Authorized on CAP Service Uniforms and BDUs

3. Combat Infantry or Army Medical Badge

Need to add Combat Action Badge too.

note:

The Combat Action Badge may be awarded to any soldier after the date of September 18, 2001 performing duties in an area where hostile fire pay or imminent danger pay is authorized, who is personally present and actively engaging or being engaged by the enemy, and performing satisfactorily in accordance with the prescribed rules of engagement

[Hawk200]

Table 6-5. US Military Badges Authorized on CAP Service Uniforms and BDUs

3. Combat Infantry or Army Medical Badge

Need to add Combat Action Badge too.

note:

The Combat Action Badge may be awarded to any soldier after the date of September 18, 2001 performing duties in an area where hostile fire pay or imminent danger pay is authorized, who is personally present and actively engaging or being engaged by the enemy, and performing satisfactorily in accordance with the prescribed rules of engagement

As far as badges go, I think that most military badges should be authorized. I would exclude branch marksmanship badges, and only allow the DCM badges. Our organization is made up of a lot of former military, and they ought to be able to continue wearing what they've earned.

However, I wouldn't authorize any more than the maximum of four per uniform that is currently permitted. Got to have a limit in the interest of good taste.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Which reminds me...

CAPR 39-1 lists the Army Overseas Service Ribbon as authorized, but the list omits the Reserve Component Overseas Deployment Ribbon.

As a suggestion, 39-1 could be amended to authorize all military awards and decorations authorized and in the same precedence as the AFI governing the AF uniform.  That way we don't have to change 39-1 every time any of the other branches make changes or add awards.  We won't have to constantly play catch-up.

[tjaxe]

I can't find what type of slacks are regulation for the female Mess Dress either in Figure 2-15 or in Table 2-2 in 39-1.  (I do see special trousers in the Men's table.)

I also notice there's no check mark next to low quarters for female mess dress.  Is this an oversight or a regulation that women must wear pumps with the mess dress? 

Thanks.

[arajca]

That's because the female mess dress only has a skirt, no trousers. Ditto for the footwear.

[tjaxe]

But I don't see the skirt authorized either... just a dress.  And if slacks aren't authorized, why not?

[arajca]

And if slacks aren't authorized, why not?

Ask the AF.

[PHall]

[redacted]

[JayT]

And if slacks aren't authorized, why not?

Ask the AF.

And every other service I believe.

[RiverAux]

CAPM 39-1, Figure 2-26, Note 4 and Figure 2-28, Note 4, and Table 2-3 (6) allow "unit commanders" to authorize various types of CAP ball caps.  Somehow this needs to be incorporated into Table 1-3, which lists what uniform items Wing and Region Commanders can authorize.  CAP baseball hats need to be added to that table and perhaps there should be a table for what uniform items squadron and group commanders can authorize. 

[Pylon]

CAPM 39-1, Figure 2-26, Note 4 and Figure 2-28, Note 4, and Table 2-3 (6) allow "unit commanders" to authorize various types of CAP ball caps.  Somehow this needs to be incorporated into Table 1-3, which lists what uniform items Wing and Region Commanders can authorize.  CAP baseball hats need to be added to that table and perhaps there should be a table for what uniform items squadron and group commanders can authorize. 

Thanks Riveraux. 

I can't find what type of slacks are regulation for the female Mess Dress either in Figure 2-15 or in Table 2-2 in 39-1.  (I do see special trousers in the Men's table.)

The AF mess dress for men comes with mess dress pants.  The AF mess dress for women comes with a dress.  It's a "here's the uniform, wear it or don't" type of deal.   Women AF members don't have the choice of pants, so by extension neither do CAP members.   We can't do anything to change that at our level.

I also notice there's no check mark next to low quarters for female mess dress.  Is this an oversight or a regulation that women must wear pumps with the mess dress? 

Thanks.

I can look into that, but I suspect that it's an AF thing.  I'll find out.  Thank you for combing through CAPM 39-1, though.  We really appreciate the assistance in this endeavor.   

[AlphaSigOU]

I can't find what type of slacks are regulation for the female Mess Dress either in Figure 2-15 or in Table 2-2 in 39-1.  (I do see special trousers in the Men's table.)

The AF mess dress for men comes with mess dress pants.  The AF mess dress for women comes with a dress.  It's a "here's the uniform, wear it or don't" type of deal.   Women AF members don't have the choice of pants, so by extension neither do CAP members.   We can't do anything to change that at our level.

I also notice there's no check mark next to low quarters for female mess dress.  Is this an oversight or a regulation that women must wear pumps with the mess dress? 

Thanks.

I can look into that, but I suspect that it's an AF thing.  I'll find out.  Thank you for combing through CAPM 39-1, though.  We really appreciate the assistance in this endeavor.   

In the olden days when dinosaurs roamed the earth and there were white and black mess dress uniforms (the current blue mess dress was not introduced until the early 1980s) women were allowed to wear either standard-length or street-length skirts with summer mess dress. That was eliminated with the current mess dress.

Patent leather pumps (both male and female versions) are usually standard footwear for mess dress, though poromeric (Corfam) is allowed. Males can wear patent leather or Corfam low-quarters with mess dress.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I can't find what type of slacks are regulation for the female Mess Dress either in Figure 2-15 or in Table 2-2 in 39-1.  (I do see special trousers in the Men's table.)

The AF mess dress for men comes with mess dress pants.  The AF mess dress for women comes with a dress.  It's a "here's the uniform, wear it or don't" type of deal.   Women AF members don't have the choice of pants, so by extension neither do CAP members.   We can't do anything to change that at our level.

I also notice there's no check mark next to low quarters for female mess dress.  Is this an oversight or a regulation that women must wear pumps with the mess dress? 

Thanks.

I can look into that, but I suspect that it's an AF thing.  I'll find out.  Thank you for combing through CAPM 39-1, though.  We really appreciate the assistance in this endeavor.   

In the olden days when dinosaurs roamed the earth and there were white and black mess dress uniforms (the current blue mess dress was not introduced until the early 1980s) women were allowed to wear either standard-length or street-length skirts with summer mess dress. That was eliminated with the current mess dress.

Patent leather pumps (both male and female versions) are usually standard footwear for mess dress, though poromeric (Corfam) is allowed. Males can wear patent leather or Corfam low-quarters with mess dress.

"Patent leather pumps..." come in a male version?  Since the Clinton Administration, perhaps?

[AlphaSigOU]

"Patent leather pumps..." come in a male version?  Since the Clinton Administration, perhaps?

Yep, they sure do... they're called 'opera pumps' 



About the only time you might see that kind of shoe style is for white tie occasions.