CAP Talk

General Discussion => Uniforms & Awards => Topic started by: vmstan on June 08, 2010, 09:06:13 PM

Title: Safety vests
Post by: vmstan on June 08, 2010, 09:06:13 PM
http://www.natcapwg.cap.gov/abovethecapital/2010/06/safety-vests

Seems the regs on safety vets are going to become pretty strict because of federal law.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Spaceman3750 on June 08, 2010, 09:27:54 PM
The USDOT requirement for ANSI Class 2/3 wear near roadways  has been in force for awhile I believe. I'm surprised it's taken NHQ this long to formalize what type of vest we are to wear.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Eclipse on June 08, 2010, 11:15:55 PM
They really haven't changed anything other than commenting that yellow is required by law in some places, otherwise, status quo.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: ol'fido on June 08, 2010, 11:36:38 PM
^^^^
Actually, Bob, the way I read it is that you may wear orange or yellow and NOT that it is required in some areas.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: lordmonar on June 08, 2010, 11:45:46 PM
Reading that makes me feel that we need to require all members ES qualified or not to have a Class 2 vest.

This at least means they have them available when the need arrises (especially Cadet and Cadet Progra types).
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Eclipse on June 08, 2010, 11:52:22 PM
Quote from: ol'fido on June 08, 2010, 11:36:38 PM
^^^^
Actually, Bob, the way I read it is that you may wear orange or yellow and NOT that it is required in some areas.

Yellow is required when in proximity to a roadway as stated, otherwise color is optional, though in hunting areas its should be orange.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: ol'fido on June 08, 2010, 11:59:26 PM
Down here it's usually the same thing. Roadways and hunting areas that is.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: lordmonar on June 09, 2010, 12:16:32 AM
The ANSI standard states three different colors....and suggests you pick the one that provides best contrast.....now local/state/counties may specify a specific color.

The requirment has been there for a while...but the interpetation of the law has been a little weird.  DOT has been pushing more and more "workers" into the requirment.  I read a web article from 2008 that was saying that photo jourlists have been forced to fall into this catagory.

I am getting the felling that it is DOT that is getting more strict in their interpetation of "highway workers".  This is not just the road crews, and survors....but also the clean up guys, new people and now CAP members who may be "working" along federal roads.

All and all I like it.

I would suggest that CAP go a bit futher by specifing the color and maybe even getting Vanguard to have a supply of "approved" vests in stock so we can present a unified front.

Now if we can just get everyone to remember to put on the vest AFTER they put on their LBVs.....it might actually do some good!  :D
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Eclipse on June 09, 2010, 01:27:19 AM
The requirement that all vests have reflective striping is also new.

Hopefully this will also fix the issue we have with members forgoing a vest in favor of an arm band.  The text is clear it must be a vest.

I'm going to add some retro-striping to the vest I reviewed a couple months ago, and I always carry a bright yellow one as well, so no biggie.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: necigrad on June 09, 2010, 04:26:38 AM
It's State law here in NV that you must wear a vest if you're on a highway working in any capacity.  Road crews, tow drivers, fire and police all must wear them.  I'm not saying they do, but it IS the law.  I spend time directing traffic and with a FEW exceptions I can't imagine doing it without a vest.  They won't stop a car, but it really might just save your life, I'm a FIRM believer.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Earhart1971 on June 09, 2010, 05:43:06 AM
Home Depot sold me vests at the wrong price. I ended up buying $30 vests for 9. They let me have them for the low price anyway, after I told them what it was for, CAP Cadets.

I thought that was nice of them.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Thom on June 09, 2010, 01:17:29 PM
This change has been a long time coming.  I'm a little surprised it took CAP this long to acknowledge the OSHA/MUTCD/FHWA requirements, but here we are.

I've posted about this before, but I'll reiterate:  When purchasing be sure that the vests you look at are really ANSI 107 Class II (or III) compliant.  There are lots of cheap vests that will say 'reflective for use on roads' and such, but if they don't say ANSI 107-2004 (or 107-2010) Class II or Class III, then they aren't legal on the roadways.

I'll note here that there is a separate standard, ANSI 207-2006 which is for use by public sector folks, specifically: Law Enforcement, Fire Dept., First Responders (EMS), and DOT officials.  I don't believe CAP qualifies for wear of any of these under Federal guidelines.

I'll also recommend that whether you are purchasing a vest with an Orange or Lime-Yellow background color, that you get one with contrasting stripes of the other color.

I've been working quite a bit along roads the last year or so and I've developed a very clear opinion: Orange vests with Lime-Yellow stripes (or Lime-Yellow vests with Orange stripes) are visible MUCH farther away and draw your attention significantly better than solid Orange or solid Lime-Yellow vests.  I'll add my OPINION that the Orange background vests with Lime-Yellow contrast stripes are overall better than the Lime background vests, even in the highway environment, and certainly once you go into the woods.  Just my 2 cents on that issue.  The legal guidance remains to pick the base vest color to achieve the best contrast with your environment.

Some examples:
(http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx116/thomashamilton/Vest1.jpg)

And, if you really want to be seen:
(http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx116/thomashamilton/Vest2.jpg)

So, in summation, I highly recommend that you research before you buy and make sure you get the best vest for your needs that also keeps everyone legal.

Thom
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Phil Hirons, Jr. on June 09, 2010, 01:43:03 PM
Quote from: Marshalus on June 08, 2010, 09:06:13 PM
http://www.natcapwg.cap.gov/abovethecapital/2010/06/safety-vests

Seems the regs on safety vets are going to become pretty strict because of federal law.

While I think this is a good idea, I'm hesitant to spend what could be some serious $ based on a Wing blog post about an in the works policy change to be included in a future regulation revision. I think I'll wait for a least the ICL. ;D

So does anyone know if the orange vests with the CAP seal in the reflective stripe makes this standard?
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: davidsinn on June 09, 2010, 01:48:39 PM
Quote from: phirons on June 09, 2010, 01:43:03 PM
Quote from: Marshalus on June 08, 2010, 09:06:13 PM
http://www.natcapwg.cap.gov/abovethecapital/2010/06/safety-vests (http://www.natcapwg.cap.gov/abovethecapital/2010/06/safety-vests)

Seems the regs on safety vets are going to become pretty strict because of federal law.

While I think this is a good idea, I'm hesitant to spend what could be some serious $ based on a Wing blog post about an in the works policy change to be included in a future regulation revision. I think I'll wait for a least the ICL. ;D

So does anyone know if the orange vests with the CAP seal in the reflective stripe makes this standard?

It's mentioned in the safety newsletter too. You should go ahead and get one just because it's a good idea.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Eclipse on June 09, 2010, 02:00:20 PM
More reason you should all be subscribed to the NHQ RSS feeds...

http://capnhq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/capnhq.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1367&p_created=1091646933
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Phil Hirons, Jr. on June 09, 2010, 05:32:49 PM
Quote from: davidsinn on June 09, 2010, 01:48:39 PM
Quote from: phirons on June 09, 2010, 01:43:03 PM
Quote from: Marshalus on June 08, 2010, 09:06:13 PM
http://www.natcapwg.cap.gov/abovethecapital/2010/06/safety-vests (http://www.natcapwg.cap.gov/abovethecapital/2010/06/safety-vests)

Seems the regs on safety vets are going to become pretty strict because of federal law.

While I think this is a good idea, I'm hesitant to spend what could be some serious $ based on a Wing blog post about an in the works policy change to be included in a future regulation revision. I think I'll wait for a least the ICL. ;D

So does anyone know if the orange vests with the CAP seal in the reflective stripe makes this standard?

It's mentioned in the safety newsletter too. You should go ahead and get one just because it's a good idea.

I have a vest. See above question.

The knowledge base article quotes the Safety Newsletter. Neither is a regulation, manual or ICL.
For all we know the requirement could be made to class III when it all shakes out.
I'll stick with the CAP orange vest until an actual policy is released
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: wacapgh on June 09, 2010, 06:26:33 PM
"Ref: Safety Beacon  June 2010, Vol 1. No. 1
Safety vests rules have changed. A policy change has been made and a copy of the revised CAPR 62-1 will be out in print for member comment soon. Please note that the requirements of CAPM 39-1 have been superseded."

How can you "superseed" a manual/regulation that begins "COMPLIANCE WITH
THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized.
Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear."?

???
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: davidsinn on June 09, 2010, 06:31:23 PM
Quote from: wacapgh on June 09, 2010, 06:26:33 PM
"Ref: Safety Beacon  June 2010, Vol 1. No. 1
Safety vests rules have changed. A policy change has been made and a copy of the revised CAPR 62-1 will be out in print for member comment soon. Please note that the requirements of CAPM 39-1 have been superseded."

How can you "superseed" a manual/regulation that begins "COMPLIANCE WITH
THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized.
Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear."?

???

With an ICL. This is one of the few places I would support an ICL because it is safety and is actually something that will make a difference and is not just a feel good check box.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: isuhawkeye on June 09, 2010, 07:47:11 PM
It is interesting to see how this forum changes its opinions on things.  Here are a few previous threads that addressed the safety vest requirments. 

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3561.msg68403#msg68403

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=6251.0

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3325.0

Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: RiverAux on June 09, 2010, 07:47:28 PM
Quote from: davidsinn on June 09, 2010, 06:31:23 PM
Quote from: wacapgh on June 09, 2010, 06:26:33 PM
"Ref: Safety Beacon  June 2010, Vol 1. No. 1
Safety vests rules have changed. A policy change has been made and a copy of the revised CAPR 62-1 will be out in print for member comment soon. Please note that the requirements of CAPM 39-1 have been superseded."

How can you "superseed" a manual/regulation that begins "COMPLIANCE WITH
THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized.
Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear."?

???

With an ICL. This is one of the few places I would support an ICL because it is safety and is actually something that will make a difference and is not just a feel good check box.
Exactly, which is why it shouldn't have been put in the newsletter or been distributed out to the membership without an approved ICL being in place first. 
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: davidsinn on June 09, 2010, 08:13:02 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on June 09, 2010, 07:47:28 PM
Quote from: davidsinn on June 09, 2010, 06:31:23 PM
Quote from: wacapgh on June 09, 2010, 06:26:33 PM
"Ref: Safety Beacon  June 2010, Vol 1. No. 1
Safety vests rules have changed. A policy change has been made and a copy of the revised CAPR 62-1 will be out in print for member comment soon. Please note that the requirements of CAPM 39-1 have been superseded."

How can you "superseed" a manual/regulation that begins "COMPLIANCE WITH
THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized.
Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear."?

???

With an ICL. This is one of the few places I would support an ICL because it is safety and is actually something that will make a difference and is not just a feel good check box.
Exactly, which is why it shouldn't have been put in the newsletter or been distributed out to the membership without an approved ICL being in place first.

It's also not in force yet either. It was a heads-up, here it comes type of thing.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Mustang on June 09, 2010, 08:51:39 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on June 08, 2010, 11:45:46 PM
This at least means they have them available when the need arrises (especially Cadet and Cadet Progra types).
Is this in addition to, or instead of, the required bubble-wrap enclosures for all cadets?
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: BTCS1* on June 10, 2010, 05:12:09 AM
For clarification, could someone please let me, and anyone else unsure for that matter, what a vest must be/have to be ANSI class2/3 compliant?
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Spaceman3750 on June 10, 2010, 05:14:19 AM
http://www.cssport.com/ansi.htm

Check the bottom of the page for a brief bit.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: JC004 on June 10, 2010, 08:28:24 AM
Quote from: Mustang on June 09, 2010, 08:51:39 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on June 08, 2010, 11:45:46 PM
This at least means they have them available when the need arrises (especially Cadet and Cadet Progra types).
Is this in addition to, or instead of, the required bubble-wrap enclosures for all cadets?

:clap:   >:D
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Thom on June 10, 2010, 02:50:05 PM
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on June 10, 2010, 05:14:19 AM
http://www.cssport.com/ansi.htm

Check the bottom of the page for a brief bit.

That's a great summary that hits the most important points for CAPers looking to buy vests.  In particular, it makes it clear that the difference (people always ask...) between Class II and Class III is the greater area of coverage of the Class III, and that the Class III covers more than just the torso, it also covers arms or legs or both.  Thus, Class III really aren't vests, they are shirts or jackets (and possibly pants) but not plain old vests.

Just to clear up one other thing some folks may be confused about, the ANSI 107-2004 standard for Vests (and other stuff) was just updated very recently to 107-2010.  The new version has NO substantive changes to the size, color, etc. of garments.  It does talk about flame resistance standards for clothing marked as FR, and longevity of materials for all clothing.  For our purposes, meeting either the old 2004 standard or the brand new 2010 standard are equally effective and legal.

Thom
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: vmstan on June 10, 2010, 03:20:57 PM
Quote from: Mustang on June 09, 2010, 08:51:39 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on June 08, 2010, 11:45:46 PM
This at least means they have them available when the need arrises (especially Cadet and Cadet Progra types).
Is this in addition to, or instead of, the required bubble-wrap enclosures for all cadets?

Addition, unless the cadets are over 18, then the bubble wrap is not required.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Phil Hirons, Jr. on June 10, 2010, 04:42:13 PM
So does the orange vest with the CAP seal on the reflective part make the cut? AKA the CAPMART, Vanguard, etc $30 one
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: davidsinn on June 10, 2010, 05:58:26 PM
Quote from: phirons on June 10, 2010, 04:42:13 PM
So does the orange vest with the CAP seal on the reflective part make the cut? AKA the CAPMART, Vanguard, etc $30 one

Are they marked with an ANSI code?
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: vmstan on June 10, 2010, 07:49:01 PM
Not on the website. I would like to know from someone who has it though.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: JC004 on June 10, 2010, 08:22:44 PM
Quote from: phirons on June 10, 2010, 04:42:13 PM
So does the orange vest with the CAP seal on the reflective part make the cut? AKA the CAPMART, Vanguard, etc $30 one

Clearly not if it isn't a Triangle Thingy. 

The seal on the golf shirt is alright though.  Maintain inconsistency. 
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: wacapgh on June 10, 2010, 08:50:12 PM
Quote from: davidsinn on June 09, 2010, 06:31:23 PM
Quote from: wacapgh on June 09, 2010, 06:26:33 PM
"Ref: Safety Beacon  June 2010, Vol 1. No. 1
Safety vests rules have changed. A policy change has been made and a copy of the revised CAPR 62-1 will be out in print for member comment soon. Please note that the requirements of CAPM 39-1 have been superseded."

How can you "superseed" a manual/regulation that begins "COMPLIANCE WITH
THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized.
Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear."?

???

With an ICL. This is one of the few places I would support an ICL because it is safety and is actually something that will make a difference and is not just a feel good check box.

That would be the correct way, however we have an example on the books already - 52-16 adding a uniform item (the Cadet First Sergeant Diamond) without the necessary revision to 39-1 to match.

Both would be simple, one-line changes:

CAPM 39-1 is revised as follows

Safety Vest - Will be worn in accordance with CAPR 62-1

Optional - Cadet First Seargent Diamond worn IAW CAPR 52-16
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Thom on June 11, 2010, 12:56:29 PM
Quote from: phirons on June 10, 2010, 04:42:13 PM
So does the orange vest with the CAP seal on the reflective part make the cut? AKA the CAPMART, Vanguard, etc $30 one

I do not know for sure, but it APPEARS that the CAP Vests sold by Vanguard are NOT ANSI 107-2004 Class II (or III) compliant.

For starters, 99.9% of the time if a Vest is ANSI certified it will be labeled and marketed as such.

Also, just looking at the photos, I don't believe the CAP Vests have sufficient background material and they certainly look to be a little light on the required reflective material to qualify for the ANSI standards.

This would be a good thing to bring up with the Vanguard folks, give them plenty of time to burn through existing stock (which while it may not meet the exact Legal requirements is certainly quite visible and should be safe...) and plenty of time to bring in new ANSI approved and CAP labeled Vests before the CAP deadline.

Thom
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: isuhawkeye on June 11, 2010, 01:21:27 PM
Before we start bashing vguard or selling a non compliant vest make sure yourealize that this product has been in our inventory since the days of the CAP book store.  They may be still selling product from an order a decade ago. 
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: vmstan on June 11, 2010, 02:27:19 PM
I emailed Vanguard to find out, I'll let you know if/when they reply.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: High Speed Low Drag on June 11, 2010, 04:47:52 PM
While the vests are good, I can see the implementation going over the top.  Here is the article from the Safety Beacon:

Safety Vests
Safety vests rules have changed. A policy change has been made and a copy of the revised CAPR 62-1 will be out in print for member comment soon. Please note that the requirements of CAPM39-1 have been superseded. Here are the requirements:
To be compliant with Federal Regulations, it is now required for CAP members to wear ANSI Class 2 or Class 3 safety vests or apparel if they are going to be or if there is a chance members may perform duties within the vicinity of federal-aid roadways. For the military style uniforms, only ANSI-approved vests are authorized. For the corporate uniform, members may wear ANSI-approved apparel such as insulated vests, jackets, winter coats, o rain gear, as an option. For other activities that will not be in the vicinity of federal-aid roadways, all safety vests must have reflectivity applied to them. While safety vests do not have to meet the ANSI standard, again, reflectivity is required. For all apparel items other than safety vests, ANSI compliance must be met regardless of the activity. This policy also requires the wear of the safety vest or safety apparel by all CAP members when performing ground functions. Examples include, but are not limited to: all ground functions of emergency services, road guards around formation movements of CAP members, performing volunteer activities near any location where motorized vehicles operate, including flight line support, and at night when walking during any ground activity, other than to and from personal vehicles at the beginning and ending of CAP functions.
The color of safety vests and apparel can be either orange or lime green. White/grey reflective striping is preferred and in wooded operations, orange vests or orange apparel with reflectivity is highly recommended as a U.S. standard color of human existence in hunting areas. By October 1, 2012, all safety vests and apparel will be required to be ANSI compliant for all CAP activities


Cadet CQ to Encampment Commander:
"Sir - Need to report 125 cadets and 20 senior members who did not wear their safety vests as they walked from the shower building back to their barracks last night."

Cadets at a museum in service blues:
"Alright, I want all of you to put on your safety vests before we exit the building and into the parking lot."
"But Sir, the vest snags my ribbons and rips them off"
"I don't care, cadet! That's better than not being seen by all motorists in the parking lot as you are getting in the van. Who wants to stop at McDonalds on the way home?"
"I do" "Me too"
"Great. You can take your vests off as soon as you get inside the McDonalds."

This has the potential to go horribly wrong unless there is some commen sense in application.

A side note - also from the Safety Beacon:

Saftey Situations followed by the recommendation of NHQ Safety

Cadet gathering firewood had a branch strike him in the eye. Eye scratched.
(Wearing protective eyewear that can be worn during all activities in the woods is recommended. Clear lenses for night and the color of your choice during the day.)
Cadet jumping over fence slipped and pitched forward hyperextending elbow. Surgery required to repair injury.
(Judgment – Just don't do it.)
Cadet finger cut by a paperclip connected to a paper airplane while launching the aircraft connected to a rubber band.
(This one penetrated the finger of the cadet. It was suggested that the proper procedure was not followed.)
Cadet had an asthma attack.
(Conditions of asthma work on trigger and it is important for all pre-existing medical conditions to be disclosed to ensure exposure to "triggers" can be minimized or removed.)


Where does this nonsense end? Safety is important but ... Are we going to reach the day we are forced to use flourscent orange bubble wrap on the cadets before we allow them to step foot inside any CAP activity?

I can just imagine what NHQ would have to say about this:

Cadet standing in an open field, cloudy but clear. Chunk of blue ice falls from aircraft flying overhead at 30,000' and bumps cadet on the head, cadet falls to the ground with a concusion.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Spaceman3750 on June 11, 2010, 06:47:41 PM
Sir, 2.5 out of those 4 you listed are actually valid concerns. The one about the cadet jumping the fence is certainly a problem and eye protection in the woods is a good idea unless you are wearing glasses which will help keep things out of your eyes.

And the one about the asthma attack is very important. For example, on a ground team you definitely want your leader to know of your condition and where your EpiPen (assuming you are carrying one with you, which you should if you are asthmatic) is located in the event you do have an attack.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: isuhawkeye on June 11, 2010, 06:56:55 PM
Not trying to derail the discussion

Spaceman-
     Epi Pens are not generally proscribed for asthma by itself.  They are a treatment for anaphylaxis which is caused by a severe allergic reaction not an asthma attack

I say this because I am a health care provider who has asthma.  there is a lot of confusion about the disease. 
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: High Speed Low Drag on June 11, 2010, 07:28:00 PM
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on June 11, 2010, 06:47:41 PM
Sir, 2.5 out of those 4 you listed are actually valid concerns. The one about the cadet jumping the fence is certainly a problem and eye protection in the woods is a good idea unless you are wearing glasses which will help keep things out of your eyes.

And the one about the asthma attack is very important. For example, on a ground team you definitely want your leader to know of your condition and where your EpiPen (assuming you are carrying one with you, which you should if you are asthmatic) is located in the event you do have an attack.

Here is the point -
1.  The theme of the responses are that all accidents are preventable - and they are if you wrap yourself in bubble wrap.  But common sense has to prevail.  A more common sense appraoch would be to say "As part of safety briefing, remind participants to use caution while in the woods.  Pay specific attention to limb strikes, tripping hazards, and insect/snake bites."  Telling everyone to wear goggles is, in my opinion, silly.

2.  Asthma - yes a real concern.  Your team leader should know where you carry your rescue inhaler (or diabetic supplies, or whatever health concern).  But to say to minimize or eliminate exposure to "triggers" is not common sense.  Instead say that it is the responsibilty of the person to be aware of triggers and if entering an environment where they might be, to take measures (dust mask, non-rescue inhaler, etc) to prevent possible attack.

3.  Rubber band on an airplane - really??

4.  Jumping a fence - happens all the time.  But again - instead of saying "don't do it" a quick "OK, we have to go over the fence.  Go slow and watch your hand / foot placement.  Climb the fence, don't jump it."
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Spaceman3750 on June 11, 2010, 07:57:37 PM
Quote from: isuhawkeye on June 11, 2010, 06:56:55 PM
Not trying to derail the discussion

Spaceman-
     Epi Pens are not generally proscribed for asthma by itself.  They are a treatment for anaphylaxis which is caused by a severe allergic reaction not an asthma attack

I say this because I am a health care provider who has asthma.  there is a lot of confusion about the disease.

Yeah, sorry, you're right. I meant emergency inhaler, but EpiPen was the first thing that came to mind for some reason. My younger brother had both severe allergies and asthma as a kid so both terms were equally likely to bubble to the top.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Spaceman3750 on June 11, 2010, 08:00:12 PM
Quote from: High Speed Low Drag on June 11, 2010, 07:28:00 PM
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on June 11, 2010, 06:47:41 PM
Sir, 2.5 out of those 4 you listed are actually valid concerns. The one about the cadet jumping the fence is certainly a problem and eye protection in the woods is a good idea unless you are wearing glasses which will help keep things out of your eyes.

And the one about the asthma attack is very important. For example, on a ground team you definitely want your leader to know of your condition and where your EpiPen (assuming you are carrying one with you, which you should if you are asthmatic) is located in the event you do have an attack.

Here is the point -
1.  The theme of the responses are that all accidents are preventable - and they are if you wrap yourself in bubble wrap.  But common sense has to prevail.  A more common sense appraoch would be to say "As part of safety briefing, remind participants to use caution while in the woods.  Pay specific attention to limb strikes, tripping hazards, and insect/snake bites."  Telling everyone to wear goggles is, in my opinion, silly.

There is a lot of ANSI compliant eye protection besides goggles. This is because there are people who must wear protection all day as part of their job, and they don't want to wear goggles either.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: lordmonar on June 11, 2010, 09:24:11 PM
The point is......Federal Law requires everyone who "works" on or near federal highways needs to have this vest.

So....in our ground team mission we often "work" on or near federal highways...so we need to have the vests.

In our Cadet Programs mission often we have formations of cadets "working" on or near federal highways so we need the vests.

This is not coddling cadets....it is about avoiding a fine from the DOT for violating the law.

End of message.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Krapenhoeffer on June 11, 2010, 09:37:38 PM
Basically, the moral of the story is that the law exists. The law is the law. CAP regulations and your common sense don't hold up in court, when the Law is the Law. And besides, the RealMilitaryTM has to wear their reflective belts/vests at night no matter what. Why shouldn't this apply to their Auxiliaries?

Frankly, I'd rather look silly and be alive, than look HardKewl and be a windshield decoration.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Ned on June 11, 2010, 11:19:13 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on June 11, 2010, 09:24:11 PM
In our Cadet Programs mission often we have formations of cadets "working" on or near federal highways so we need the vests.

This is not coddling cadets....it is about avoiding a fine from the DOT for violating the law.


I agree that this is not about coddling cadets. 

But it might have something to do with interpreting a law in a common sense manner.  12 and 13 year-olds going to a summer leadership camp on a restricted access military base is probably not the same thing as "working in or near a federal highway."  As a practical matter, wings simply do not have mulitple thousands of dollars lieing around to purchase ANSI vests so the cadets can march from the barracks to the chow hall safely.

Which cadets have done safely for over 60 years.

We are probably talking about 8,000 vests at $35 a pop - that's over a quarter of a million dollars that simply doesn't exist without selling a few airplanes.

This is why regulations have a comment period - so we can point out unforeseen problems like this.

Ned Lee
National CP Guy

Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: vmstan on June 12, 2010, 12:04:22 AM
With all due respect, I'm not sure there is much room for CAP regulations to contradict what is in the Federal law... it would be more appropriate to direct the frustration at those who created the law. The alternative is to say that cadets cannot participate in programs that would violate this law, and neuter the programs.

It's an unfunded government mandate. What else is new?
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Krapenhoeffer on June 12, 2010, 01:59:32 AM
For the purposes of being on a military installation for an encampment, all one would need is a reflective belt. http://www.brightideasusa.biz/belt.html has them for $7 (Google search, not an official endorsement). I've seen them at AAFES for around the same price. That isn't bad for a price. The only time I've ever been near a highway in CAP is for ES, so I have to have a vest anyway. For aircraft marshaling, the local EAA chapter throws vests at us.

If you know where to look, you can get these for pretty cheap.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Thom on June 12, 2010, 02:55:39 AM
Quote from: Ned on June 11, 2010, 11:19:13 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on June 11, 2010, 09:24:11 PM
In our Cadet Programs mission often we have formations of cadets "working" on or near federal highways so we need the vests.

This is not coddling cadets....it is about avoiding a fine from the DOT for violating the law.


I agree that this is not about coddling cadets. 

But it might have something to do with interpreting a law in a common sense manner.  12 and 13 year-olds going to a summer leadership camp on a restricted access military base is probably not the same thing as "working in or near a federal highway."  As a practical matter, wings simply do not have mulitple thousands of dollars lieing around to purchase ANSI vests so the cadets can march from the barracks to the chow hall safely.

Which cadets have done safely for over 60 years.

We are probably talking about 8,000 vests at $35 a pop - that's over a quarter of a million dollars that simply doesn't exist without selling a few airplanes.

This is why regulations have a comment period - so we can point out unforeseen problems like this.

Ned Lee
National CP Guy

Not to make light of the unfunded mandate, but we are talking about a far smaller figure, over a length of time.

Real figure would be (using your total which I have no data about) approximately 8,000 vests at $6-$8 each, not $35.  Heck, $35 will buy you a cadillac vest with every feature possible.

A link to a cheap, legal, compliant vest that is $6 and change:
http://www.safetyvests.com/ansi/ansi-class-2/occunomix-class-2-value-mesh-vest-orange-eco-gc-orange/ (http://www.safetyvests.com/ansi/ansi-class-2/occunomix-class-2-value-mesh-vest-orange-eco-gc-orange/)

And, we get to spread out the replacement expense over 2 years.

In the final analysis, it isn't a pleasant expenditure, but it has to be done, so let's figure out how to do it.

Perhaps a proposal to Wal-Mart or someone with similar disposable Charity Donation money to be given to help us protect our non-reflective cadets?

Thom
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: wuzafuzz on June 12, 2010, 02:57:40 AM
Don't forget the new ground team / UDF helmet with flashing lights.   >:D
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YFDTDRCFL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: davidsinn on June 12, 2010, 02:59:01 AM
Quote from: Thom on June 12, 2010, 02:55:39 AM
Quote from: Ned on June 11, 2010, 11:19:13 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on June 11, 2010, 09:24:11 PM
In our Cadet Programs mission often we have formations of cadets "working" on or near federal highways so we need the vests.

This is not coddling cadets....it is about avoiding a fine from the DOT for violating the law.


I agree that this is not about coddling cadets. 

But it might have something to do with interpreting a law in a common sense manner.  12 and 13 year-olds going to a summer leadership camp on a restricted access military base is probably not the same thing as "working in or near a federal highway."  As a practical matter, wings simply do not have mulitple thousands of dollars lieing around to purchase ANSI vests so the cadets can march from the barracks to the chow hall safely.

Which cadets have done safely for over 60 years.

We are probably talking about 8,000 vests at $35 a pop - that's over a quarter of a million dollars that simply doesn't exist without selling a few airplanes.

This is why regulations have a comment period - so we can point out unforeseen problems like this.

Ned Lee
National CP Guy

Not to make light of the unfunded mandate, but we are talking about a far smaller figure, over a length of time.

Real figure would be (using your total which I have no data about) approximately 8,000 vests at $6-$8 each, not $35.  Heck, $35 will buy you a cadillac vest with every feature possible.

A link to a cheap, legal, compliant vest that is $6 and change:
http://www.safetyvests.com/ansi/ansi-class-2/occunomix-class-2-value-mesh-vest-orange-eco-gc-orange/ (http://www.safetyvests.com/ansi/ansi-class-2/occunomix-class-2-value-mesh-vest-orange-eco-gc-orange/)

And, we get to spread out the replacement expense over 2 years.

In the final analysis, it isn't a pleasant expenditure, but it has to be done, so let's figure out how to do it.

Perhaps a proposal to Wal-Mart or someone with similar disposable Charity Donation money to be given to help us protect our non-reflective cadets?

Thom

Wouldn't it be cheaper to just have the cadets at the corners of the formation, and any staff walking with but not int he formation to be in vests? Similar concept to mounting extremity lights on farm equipment.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: JC004 on June 12, 2010, 06:33:45 AM
Quote from: wuzafuzz on June 12, 2010, 02:57:40 AM
Don't forget the new ground team / UDF helmet with flashing lights.   >:D
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YFDTDRCFL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

DUDE.  Don't give them ideas.  This is going to end up as a National Board agenda item.  Not only that, but it will have a Triangle Thingy on it, maybe even as a spike!
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: a2capt on June 12, 2010, 07:21:16 AM
(http://captalk.net/MGalleryItem.php?id=229)
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: JC004 on June 12, 2010, 08:24:41 AM
oh. man...
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: SarDragon on June 12, 2010, 08:46:18 AM
That's COLD!
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Slim on June 12, 2010, 09:28:44 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on June 12, 2010, 08:46:18 AM
That's COLD!

Yet, I can't seem to stop laughing at it.....
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: wuzafuzz on June 12, 2010, 02:31:07 PM
ROFL  :clap: :clap: :clap:

JC004 may be right!  In a secret CAP Photoshop bunker the The Mad Triangle Thingy SWAT Team is wringing their hands and laughing maniacally at the thought of new places to place their beloved logo.  Plus a spike on the helmet could be an elevated feed antenna for a portable radio.

The ANSI vests are starting to look a lot better...


Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: davidsinn on June 12, 2010, 03:18:04 PM
Quote from: a2capt on June 12, 2010, 07:21:16 AM
(http://captalk.net/MGalleryItem.php?id=229)

Burn him at the stake. >:D
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: JC004 on June 12, 2010, 06:53:56 PM
Quote from: wuzafuzz on June 12, 2010, 02:31:07 PM
ROFL  :clap: :clap: :clap:

JC004 may be right!  In a secret CAP Photoshop bunker the The Mad Triangle Thingy SWAT Team is wringing their hands and laughing maniacally at the thought of new places to place their beloved logo.  Plus a spike on the helmet could be an elevated feed antenna for a portable radio.

The ANSI vests are starting to look a lot better...

So the hard hat will have the Triangle Thingy, the ANSI vest will have the Corporate Seal, the van they're driving will have the Command Patch (with "U.S"), and the second team's van with have the Command patch without "U.S."  One van will say "www.cap.gov" and they other will say "www.gocivilairpatrol.com."  Then, some member will crash the party because they'll be wearing an older vest with the Emblem and the temporary "U.S. Civil Air Patrol" tapes.  I hope one of the members doesn't take off their BDU coat because the squadron shirt has the Air Force Symbol!  Of course the team members will be wearing polo combination, BDUs, and blueberry suits...

Hmm...I think we have an identity crisis.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: BTCS1* on June 13, 2010, 04:04:53 PM
Quote from: JC004 on June 12, 2010, 06:53:56 PM
Quote from: wuzafuzz on June 12, 2010, 02:31:07 PM
ROFL  :clap: :clap: :clap:

JC004 may be right!  In a secret CAP Photoshop bunker the The Mad Triangle Thingy SWAT Team is wringing their hands and laughing maniacally at the thought of new places to place their beloved logo.  Plus a spike on the helmet could be an elevated feed antenna for a portable radio.

The ANSI vests are starting to look a lot better...

So the hard hat will have the Triangle Thingy, the ANSI vest will have the Corporate Seal, the van they're driving will have the Command Patch (with "U.S"), and the second team's van with have the Command patch without "U.S."  One van will say "www.cap.gov" and they other will say "www.gocivilairpatrol.com."  Then, some member will crash the party because they'll be wearing an older vest with the Emblem and the temporary "U.S. Civil Air Patrol" tapes.  I hope one of the members doesn't take off their BDU coat because the squadron shirt has the Air Force Symbol!  Of course the team members will be wearing polo combination, BDUs, and blueberry suits...

Hmm...I think we have an identity crisis.
+1
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: JC004 on June 13, 2010, 08:21:27 PM
Quote from: BTCS1* on June 13, 2010, 04:04:53 PM
Quote from: JC004 on June 12, 2010, 06:53:56 PM
Quote from: wuzafuzz on June 12, 2010, 02:31:07 PM
ROFL  :clap: :clap: :clap:

JC004 may be right!  In a secret CAP Photoshop bunker the The Mad Triangle Thingy SWAT Team is wringing their hands and laughing maniacally at the thought of new places to place their beloved logo.  Plus a spike on the helmet could be an elevated feed antenna for a portable radio.

The ANSI vests are starting to look a lot better...

So the hard hat will have the Triangle Thingy, the ANSI vest will have the Corporate Seal, the van they're driving will have the Command Patch (with "U.S"), and the second team's van with have the Command patch without "U.S."  One van will say "www.cap.gov" and they other will say "www.gocivilairpatrol.com."  Then, some member will crash the party because they'll be wearing an older vest with the Emblem and the temporary "U.S. Civil Air Patrol" tapes.  I hope one of the members doesn't take off their BDU coat because the squadron shirt has the Air Force Symbol!  Of course the team members will be wearing polo combination, BDUs, and blueberry suits...

Hmm...I think we have an identity crisis.
+1

How come a C/MSgt gets this and it seems like Colonels do not?  Sometimes I think we should have a cadet activity...CAP Leaders for a Week.  Let the cadets run the organization for a week and see what they do.   :)  I bet they'd kick butt.

Cadets were talking about our identity long before the Triangle Thingy topic - quite often around here (whether they applied the words "identity," "brand," etc. to it or not). 

I remember at one activity where we were all looking at the then-new 39-1.   The cadets were all talking about how dumb it was to have a utility suit in dark blue and a flight suit in ultramarine.  Same pattern, different colors.  Of course, they later changed this at our expense.  I know some SMs who were NOT TOO HAPPY about the cost they got stuck with on this. 
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: BTCS1* on June 15, 2010, 10:55:37 PM
That would be great, because frankly, while CAC is meant to provide us with the opportunity to help with the seniors command decisions and whatnot, it is actually quite ineffective from what I have seen in my year a a rep. My first order of business: KILL THE TRIANGLE-THINGY!!!!
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Eclipse on June 15, 2010, 11:31:00 PM
Quote from: JC004 on June 13, 2010, 08:21:27 PMI remember at one activity where we were all looking at the then-new 39-1.   The cadets were all talking about how dumb it was to have a utility suit in dark blue and a flight suit in ultramarine.  Same pattern, different colors.  Of course, they later changed this at our expense.  I know some SMs who were NOT TOO HAPPY about the cost they got stuck with on this.

As I recall the ultramarine flight suit was only worn during phase-out when they put the dark blue flight suit into service.

Not really a "duplication".

Quote from: BTCS1* on June 15, 2010, 10:55:37 PM
That would be great, because frankly, while CAC is meant to provide us with the opportunity to help with the seniors command decisions and whatnot, it is actually quite ineffective from what I have seen in my year a a rep. My first order of business: KILL THE TRIANGLE-THINGY!!!!

CAC is an advisory body with no more authority than CAPTalk, and generally picks the topics it works on out of thin air and outside their scope.

Branding and triangles as a perfect example, senior activities as another. 

Unless HEADCAP charges the CAC at the national level with work on the brand, it's not really their concern.  The whole idea of CAC is to provide commanders with advice on issues they are charged with advising on, or concerns from the respective echelon of membership, not randomly "fix things".  That's why they are ineffective, no one will hone their scope and mission, so they wander around in the dark until their term is up.  The ribbon should have a picture of a flashlight on it.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Hawk200 on June 15, 2010, 11:43:38 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on June 15, 2010, 11:31:00 PM
The ribbon should have a picture of a flashlight on it.
Careful, someone will try to get such a ribbon device of such an item commisioned.

Quote from: JC004 on June 13, 2010, 08:21:27 PMSometimes I think we should have a cadet activity...CAP Leaders for a Week.  Let the cadets run the organization for a week and see what they do.   :)  I bet they'd kick butt.
Frankly, that concept scares me. A large amount of cadets have a bling fetish, I can just imagine what cadets running the organization for a week would produce.

Yes, there are a few that have good heads on their shoulders, but it doesn't mean they all do. And, it applies to seniors as well.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: JC004 on June 16, 2010, 12:06:53 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on June 15, 2010, 11:31:00 PM
Quote from: JC004 on June 13, 2010, 08:21:27 PMI remember at one activity where we were all looking at the then-new 39-1.   The cadets were all talking about how dumb it was to have a utility suit in dark blue and a flight suit in ultramarine.  Same pattern, different colors.  Of course, they later changed this at our expense.  I know some SMs who were NOT TOO HAPPY about the cost they got stuck with on this.

As I recall the ultramarine flight suit was only worn during phase-out when they put the dark blue flight suit into service.

Not really a "duplication".

I don't understand what you mean.  The corporate flight suit authorized in 39-1 was ultramarine.  The utility flight suit-like uniform (non-NOMEX) was blueberry.  Then they changed the flight suit to blueberry.

Quote from: Hawk200 on June 15, 2010, 11:43:38 PM
Quote from: JC004 on June 13, 2010, 08:21:27 PMSometimes I think we should have a cadet activity...CAP Leaders for a Week.  Let the cadets run the organization for a week and see what they do.   :)  I bet they'd kick butt.
Frankly, that concept scares me. A large amount of cadets have a bling fetish, I can just imagine what cadets running the organization for a week would produce.

Yes, there are a few that have good heads on their shoulders, but it doesn't mean they all do. And, it applies to seniors as well.

Don't worry.  It's not an actual proposal (thus "sometimes I think"), just commentary on how the cadets seem to get it and the National Board does not - and has not for some time.  That's not necessarily against the current National Board.  It's ongoing.  That said, if I were a Wing Commander or otherwise, I'd be involving cadets heavily for sure.  Sure, they've got their high school drama and their weird proposals like we've seen with multiple CACs at different levels, but at least they don't have the cut-throat politics that we see the seniors sometimes engaged in.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: Eclipse on June 16, 2010, 12:09:17 AM
Quote from: Hawk200 on June 15, 2010, 11:43:38 PM
Yes, there are a few that have good heads on their shoulders, but it doesn't mean they all do. And, it applies to seniors as well.

Yep, and we sometimes forget that the reason we are where we are, is because of the evolution of the program, the government, our members, and our customers.

Its easy to pick out one or two random things that don't make sense as indicators of global issues, but in most cases the "fix" is not
as simple as the "fix" when seen in the larger context.  Many things can be accomplished by simply having everyone equally unhappy, but not everything.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: lordmonar on June 16, 2010, 12:17:31 AM
Quote from: BTCS1* on June 15, 2010, 10:55:37 PM
That would be great, because frankly, while CAC is meant to provide us with the opportunity to help with the seniors command decisions and whatnot, it is actually quite ineffective from what I have seen in my year a a rep. My first order of business: KILL THE TRIANGLE-THINGY!!!!

No...sorry the CAC is NOT supposed to help with command decisions.

You are supposed to advise the commander about improvements to the cadet program at your level of representation.

One of the reasons why CAC is ineffective is because the get outside their lane.  Marketing is not within the perview of the CAC and it is in appropriate for you to go there.

While everyone has the right to voice their opinion....don't blame CAC if you are trying to use it inappropriately.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: BTCS1* on June 16, 2010, 12:20:34 AM
I did not mean that CAC should fix the bringing issue, that was in regards to the "leader for a day" comment. CAC should not be dealing with things like that, after all, it is CADET advisory council.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: JC004 on June 16, 2010, 07:32:03 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on June 16, 2010, 12:17:31 AM
Quote from: BTCS1* on June 15, 2010, 10:55:37 PM
That would be great, because frankly, while CAC is meant to provide us with the opportunity to help with the seniors command decisions and whatnot, it is actually quite ineffective from what I have seen in my year a a rep. My first order of business: KILL THE TRIANGLE-THINGY!!!!

No...sorry the CAC is NOT supposed to help with command decisions.

You are supposed to advise the commander about improvements to the cadet program at your level of representation.

One of the reasons why CAC is ineffective is because the get outside their lane.  Marketing is not within the perview of the CAC and it is in appropriate for you to go there.

While everyone has the right to voice their opinion....don't blame CAC if you are trying to use it inappropriately.

One of the cadets sent this to me.  Honestly, I didn't look at it much yet, but he told me some of what is in it.  It's a quarterly "strategic action plan" that they have going at the moment:
http://cac.cap.gov/images/90-III%20Strategic%20Action%20Plan.pdf

Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: FARRIER on June 16, 2010, 07:55:22 AM
Earthday Activities :o

Quote from: JC004 on June 16, 2010, 07:32:03 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on June 16, 2010, 12:17:31 AM
Quote from: BTCS1* on June 15, 2010, 10:55:37 PM
That would be great, because frankly, while CAC is meant to provide us with the opportunity to help with the seniors command decisions and whatnot, it is actually quite ineffective from what I have seen in my year a a rep. My first order of business: KILL THE TRIANGLE-THINGY!!!!

No...sorry the CAC is NOT supposed to help with command decisions.

You are supposed to advise the commander about improvements to the cadet program at your level of representation.

One of the reasons why CAC is ineffective is because the get outside their lane.  Marketing is not within the perview of the CAC and it is in appropriate for you to go there.

While everyone has the right to voice their opinion....don't blame CAC if you are trying to use it inappropriately.

One of the cadets sent this to me.  Honestly, I didn't look at it much yet, but he told me some of what is in it.  It's a quarterly "strategic action plan" that they have going at the moment:
http://cac.cap.gov/images/90-III%20Strategic%20Action%20Plan.pdf
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: dogboy on June 16, 2010, 08:06:34 PM
Many countries require that a safety vest be available in  any car on a public road. It's an excellent idea. I give them out as gifts. Could easily save a life. Cost only about $5
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: DakRadz on June 16, 2010, 08:25:30 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on June 15, 2010, 11:43:38 PM
Quote from: JC004 on June 13, 2010, 08:21:27 PM
Quote from: JC004
Sometimes I think we should have a cadet activity...CAP Leaders for a Week.  Let the cadets run the organization for a week and see what they do.   :)  I bet they'd kick butt.
Frankly, that concept scares me. A large amount of cadets have a bling fetish, I can just imagine what cadets running the organization for a week would produce.

Yes, there are a few that have good heads on their shoulders, but it doesn't mean they all do. And, it applies to seniors as well.

Don't worry.  It's not an actual proposal (thus "sometimes I think"), just commentary on how the cadets seem to get it and the National Board does not - and has not for some time.  That's not necessarily against the current National Board.  It's ongoing.  That said, if I were a Wing Commander or otherwise, I'd be involving cadets heavily for sure.  Sure, they've got their high school drama and their weird proposals like we've seen with multiple CACs at different levels, but at least they don't have the cut-throat politics that we see the seniors sometimes engaged in.
I'd say the CAP Leaders for a Week would work- and the cadets would have to be screened, of course. ;D Really, though, I've seen in multiple cadet programs that adults often kill the momemtum, often by being ridiculously illogical.. Hmm.

P.S. How about sending a PM with some of those weird proposals? Sounds like good reading, being I know how off the wall we teens can be.  8)
Quote from: dogboy on June 16, 2010, 08:06:34 PM
Many countries require that a safety vest be available in  any car on a public road. It's an excellent idea. I give them out as gifts. Could easily save a life. Cost only about $5
Wonderful Christmas idea for CAP! Thank you sir!
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: HGjunkie on June 17, 2010, 10:38:03 PM
Quote from: dogboy on June 16, 2010, 08:06:34 PM
Many countries require that a safety vest be available in  any car on a public road. It's an excellent idea. I give them out as gifts. Could easily save a life. Cost only about $5
Isn't Germany one of those countries?
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: SarDragon on June 18, 2010, 12:21:27 AM
Here's what the folks where my sweetie works wear:

(http://static.shopdirectbrands.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/250x250/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/largeimg/ERG-8250Z.jpg)

http://www.shopdirectbrands.com/ergodyne-glowearr-8250z-class-2-surveyors-vest-erg-8250z.html (http://www.shopdirectbrands.com/ergodyne-glowearr-8250z-class-2-surveyors-vest-erg-8250z.html)

$20.15; sturdy, mesh back, ANSI Class 2. Also available in the Lime flavour.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: JC004 on June 18, 2010, 12:52:26 AM
Quote from: FARRIER on June 16, 2010, 07:55:22 AM
Earthday Activities :o

That's why the new vest is needed.  It is all coming together now.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: SarDragon on June 18, 2010, 01:23:38 AM
Come Together - Beatles song.
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: RADIOMAN015 on June 19, 2010, 10:47:39 PM
I think overall it gives a false sense of security when wearing these vests especially next to a roadway with high speed traffic and/or large volumes of traffic.   I'm not sure we should even be stopping our vehicles on a roadway shoulder/breakdown lane as above or have any members (especially cadets) in this situation.  Unless you can pull off into a field or other parking area, a good distance from the travel road, you are in significant danger.   

We just had a state cop killed early this morning hit by an alleged drunk driver, who hit him when he was out of the cruiser after chasing another alleged drunk driver who drove up a closed ramp.  The state policeman was working a construction detail with appropriate lights, cones, etc. :(

BTW I know cops that even at the $35.00 an hour rate, won't do road jobs anymore, due to the hazards.

RM
 
Title: Re: Safety vests
Post by: SarDragon on June 20, 2010, 03:02:11 AM
In my area, it is frequently necessary to get out of a vehicle at the side of the road. Due to the terrain, we have to drive to the high places to listen for and triangulate ELTs. Some of these high places have adequate stopping areas, some don't.  We find the most visible place, turn on as many lights as possible, and stay as far from the traffic lane as possible, even to the extent of exiting and entering the vehicle only on the passenger side.