USAF PME Ribbon

[FlyingPig]

There is a Deputy Sheriff in Florida who attended the full in-residence USAF ALS at McDill and also graduated as honor grad. He was never in the military.  I am told he wears the AF PME ribbon on his Deputy Sheriff Class As. Granted, hes not wearing that ribbon in a military style uniform, and the sheriff can allow him to wear anything the Sheriff wants to approve.   The side bar discussion to that, is why the heck as a Deputy would you want to spend that many weeks in ALS?     

[SierraOneThree]

There were days, as late as the mid-90s) when CAP members, including cadets (specifically, cadets) would qualify on the M16 and/or M9 with Air Force CATM instructors and be presented the Air Fire Small Arms Marksmanship Ribbon. In fact, I know a sitting wing commander who still wears his.

As an aside, the Air National Guard wing that is supported by out CAP Wing's chaplain plans to present an Air Force Achievment (or Commendation) Medal to him for his several years of service.

I know there's at least one senior member on the last year who was put in by an AF Col for an Aerial Achievement medal for his support with one of the AF support missions. I don't know if it was approved, but per the DAFMAN, the Col was well within his rights to do so and was the approving authority for the medal anyway. There are certain medals that civilians are eligible for, and I suppose there's a bit of a grey area with us now being "Total Force" that gives folks some wiggle room.

[Slim]

So, if as a member of the Coast Guard Auxiliary, a member earns a Coast Guard Achievement Medal (it does happen)  This would meet the letter of the regulation in that it was awarded by a competent authority and is eligible to be worn per the AFI. 

Not sure if that's the spirit of the regulation, but is consistent with the letter.

When I was a member of the USCGAux many years ago, I earned two CG unit commendation awards (given to all members for the 60th anniversary of the USCG Aux, and for Operation Noble Eagle right after 9/11) and the CG Special Operations award (presented on orders signed by the captain (O-6) in command of Group Detroit).  I copied the documentation and put them in my file, and added the ribbons to my rack.

Most people I encountered, especially the prior service and prior CG members simply said "Cool" when I told them why I was wearing them.  But the people who raised the biggest stink about it were non prior service, and didn't hesitate to throw that "You weren't a member of the armed forces so you can't wear them."  And it came up constantly, there were even accusations of stolen valor made.  No amount of showing the awarding documentation would silence it.  So, I just decided that it wasn't worth it in the end and took them off.

[Shuman 14]

Slim,

I hear you brother. I'm still in so I have all my USCGAux and CAP Federal Decorations uploaded into i-PERMS and added to my ORB and IPPS-A, so when I retire they will be on my final DD-214.

I wear them now on my Army Uniform, I sometimes get questions, but since they're all in the official systems, the issue is mote.

I wish there was an official CAP system to add Federal Awards so these issues would go away here as well.

[SARDOC]

Yeah.  The CGAUX is a unique organization in that they have their own auxiliary awards like we do, but they are sometimes also awarded the Active Duty/Military version of the award... which I agree is acceptable as a "Federal Award"

DoD Civilians will get awarded them at times.  To me it's doesn't diminish the award.  I think it says to the non traditional members how much we value your service.  For example, when the Army awarded CAP members with the Air Medal.

[SierraOneThree]

There were days, as late as the mid-90s) when CAP members, including cadets (specifically, cadets) would qualify on the M16 and/or M9 with Air Force CATM instructors and be presented the Air Fire Small Arms Marksmanship Ribbon. In fact, I know a sitting wing commander who still wears his.

As an aside, the Air National Guard wing that is supported by out CAP Wing's chaplain plans to present an Air Force Achievment (or Commendation) Medal to him for his several years of service.

There is no mechanism in myDecs to accomplish this, but when the ANG Wing Commander presents him with a certificate and pins the Air Force medal on his uniform, what do we do? Tell him to remove it? Allow him to wear it?  Both are good questions.

As his CAP Wing Commander, I won't hesitate to let him wear it.

Oh, coming back to this-

Regarding the chappie's award, myDecs doesn't have to have anything input for the award to be valid. Once the appropriate ranking officer signs the "paper" form off, the award is valid. All you need is a signed copy of the award form, no dealing with the, erm, joys of myFSS and myPers.

Additionally, someone I know just submitted a DAF847 up their CAP chain to try to get CAP members authorized for orientation CATM training a la ROTC/USAFA cadets in the 2654. Hopefully it'll get the approvals it needs and make it over to CAP-USAF. Perhaps if some lovely wing commanders are around to provide additional useful insight that could be helpful....

[Stonewall]

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if CAP stopped allowing members to wear military ribbons and badges. If nothing else, it would mitigate the number of bogus things I've seen people wear on their uniforms over the years. From SEAL tridents to valor medals that weren't earned.

That said, I'm good with it either way.

[FlyingPig]

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if CAP stopped allowing members to wear military ribbons and badges. If nothing else, it would mitigate the number of bogus things I've seen people wear on their uniforms over the years. From SEAL tridents to valor medals that weren't earned.

That said, I'm good with it either way.

If be all for it.  Nothing irks me more than a high level CAP leader who wears all mil ribbons on their CAP uniform and not a single CAP dec.

[SARDOC]

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if CAP stopped allowing members to wear military ribbons and badges. If nothing else, it would mitigate the number of bogus things I've seen people wear on their uniforms over the years. From SEAL tridents to valor medals that weren't earned.

That said, I'm good with it either way.

The Rationale fails me.  You'd rather CAP not recognize those who've served and display earned awards, because of a hand full of people who violate the rules, instead of just holding those members accountable?  Keeping in mind that there are actual military service members who do the same thing.

I don't have a dog in this fight, as I'm already not able to wear my military awards because I've been relegated to the corporate uniform.   

[Stonewall]

The Rationale fails me.  You'd rather CAP not recognize those who've served and display earned awards, because of a hand full of people who violate the rules, instead of just holding those members accountable?  Keeping in mind that there are actual military service members who do the same thing.

I don't have a dog in this fight, as I'm already not able to wear my military awards because I've been relegated to the corporate uniform.   

It's just an opinion, not an action I'd take to remove the option.

A couple of things that I don't care for include someone wearing 45 ribbons on their CAP uniform because they were also in the military. I think it looks ridiculous and borderlines narcissism. Can there be a middle ground? Sure. 

Again, just my opinion, but wearing a rack of 20 CAP ribbons topped off with the NDSM and a BMT ribbon also looks kind of silly, especially for an older CAP Lt Col. I see why a 21 year old Senior Member wears it, they want some instant credibility. I see it, and I understand it, I just don't agree with it.

When it comes to combining military and CAP awards, I think a good balance is taking advantage of the "some" option. Short stack your top military and CAP awards, maybe six total. I think that looks decent.

Ironically, with all that said above, I just got my wife a dual UltraThin CAP/AF rack for her CAP blues. She's a CAP SMSgt and caps out at 24 ribbons combined, which doesn't look too bad. She also only wears her CAP service dress like once a year at most.

Again, just an opinion.

[FlyingPig]

I think at some point I'm going to wear my CAP ribbon rack with only my USAF PME ribbon with cluster perched on top for all the world to see.

[PHall]

The only military ribbons I wear on a CAP uniform are my individual decorations, i.e. Meritorious Service Medal, AF Commendation Medal and AF Achievement Medal and then only on my mess dress.

[Fubar]

The Rationale fails me.  You'd rather CAP not recognize those who've served and display earned awards, because of a hand full of people who violate the rules, instead of just holding those members accountable?  Keeping in mind that there are actual military service members who do the same thing.

I'd rather CAP focused on CAP and left it at that. It's not CAP's purpose to recognize anyone for anything they do outside of CAP. It would reduce drama, produce fewer banana republic generals, and remove a least a sentence or two from the uniform manual.

It's also the last issue on a long list of issues that CAP should worry about.

[Shawn Stanford]

I've long held the opinion that CAP uniforms should only allow CAP awards. My CAP service is a thing unique and separate from my military service. I don't wear any of my military service awards on my CAP uniforms (with the exception of wearing my CAB on the ABUs just to be That Guy).

Or, CAP awards should have precedence over equivalent awards from other services. That's how literally every service does it. So a CAP MSM would be worn above a Federal MSM in the rack.

[Paul Creed III]

I've long held the opinion that CAP uniforms should only allow CAP awards. My CAP service is a thing unique and separate from my military service. I don't wear any of my military service awards on my CAP uniforms (with the exception of wearing my CAB on the ABUs just to be That Guy).

Or, CAP awards should have precedence over equivalent awards from other services. That's how literally every service does it. So a CAP MSM would be worn above a Federal MSM in the rack.

I wish we could wear two CAP aviation badges too. For those of us who earned two, it would be nice to wear both but, sadly, no.

[SierraOneThree]

I wish we could wear two CAP aviation badges too. For those of us who earned two, it would be nice to wear both but, sadly, no.

"But they look too similar!"

*looks at CSO and officer aircrew badges*

[TheSkyHornet]

I've long held the opinion that CAP uniforms should only allow CAP awards. My CAP service is a thing unique and separate from my military service. I don't wear any of my military service awards on my CAP uniforms (with the exception of wearing my CAB on the ABUs just to be That Guy).

Or, CAP awards should have precedence over equivalent awards from other services. That's how literally every service does it. So a CAP MSM would be worn above a Federal MSM in the rack.

I totally agree, Shawn.

CAP is a non-profit corporate, not a branch of the Armed Forces. I just don't see a need to represent DoD or DHS service on a corporation's uniform, military-style or not.

We also have a population of individuals who get very star-struck over those with a military background. I see senior members who pull out military service challenge coins like it means something of great relevance at a CAP squadron cadet meeting.

[SierraOneThree]

I totally agree, Shawn.

CAP is a non-profit corporate, not a branch of the Armed Forces. I just don't see a need to represent DoD or DHS service on a corporation's uniform, military-style or not.

We also have a population of individuals who get very star-struck over those with a military background. I see senior members who pull out military service challenge coins like it means something of great relevance at a CAP squadron cadet meeting.

Yeah, very strange considering the extremely limited relationship and cultural history CAP has with the military.

[TheSkyHornet]

I totally agree, Shawn.

CAP is a non-profit corporate, not a branch of the Armed Forces. I just don't see a need to represent DoD or DHS service on a corporation's uniform, military-style or not.

We also have a population of individuals who get very star-struck over those with a military background. I see senior members who pull out military service challenge coins like it means something of great relevance at a CAP squadron cadet meeting.

Yeah, very strange considering the extremely limited relationship and cultural history CAP has with the military.

Let's not get into the Aux On/Aux Off battle here. Most members in CAP have no affiliation with the "Air Force side of the house." Many of our prior service members don't support the Auxiliary mission.

This isn't a "do you support the military" topic. What does being in the U.S. Navy have to do with being in CAP aside from the experience you might bring to the table? Our "officers" don't exactly hold a commission...

[SierraOneThree]

Let's not get into the Aux On/Aux Off battle here. Most members in CAP have no affiliation with the "Air Force side of the house." Many of our prior service members don't support the Auxiliary mission.

This isn't a "do you support the military" topic. What does being in the U.S. Navy have to do with being in CAP aside from the experience you might bring to the table? Our "officers" don't exactly hold a commission...

I never even mentioned our aux status, nor anything about supporting the military.

I could easily mention the vast majority of our corporate funding (which logically dictates a lot of our policies), our fleet funding, the....uniforms that all cadets wear as a matter of requirement. Our corporate/organizational structure.

The Air Force gives us money, and controls a third of our governing corporate body. And to be quite blunt, the military culture provides a source of inspiration for a huge number of cadets moreso than a lot of what kids get in their normal lives on a daily basis.

Honestly, if you remove the military-like portions of our organization, you'll completely erase the cadet program, and therefore you'll erase at least half the reason the Air Force gives us money in the first place.

So in conclusion, who cares? The military aspects of CAP aren't going anywhere anytime soon. And I'd wager your perspective is in the severe minority anyway.