In a past thread a while back we touched on the issue of what the proper CAP uniform should be for attending classroom-based interagency training classes. Obviously, if it is a military training event, we would wear the CAP equivalent to whatever the standard uniform of the day is there. But, we were talking more specifically about classes involving local or state emergency response agencies.
Some folks thought that the golf shirt would probably be the best CAP uniform since it would be roughly equivalent in terms of formality with what you could probably expect the other students to be wearing.
Others thought that one of the more "military" uniforms (AF-style or CAP corporate) would be better as they would make you more "visible" and would be better for raising awareness of CAP amongst local responders.
Here is what I've seen in the past and a more recent experience:
Over the last few years I attended two interagency training classes each of three days each. Each class had roughly 30-40 people made up of a mix of local and state agencies including firefighters, police, health department, local emergency managers, etc. During these two classes I took the "blend-in" approach and wore the golf shirt for the entire time for each class.
More recently I attended a 3 1/2 day class with about the same amount and type f students as before. For the first 2 days I wore the golf shirt. On the third day I wore the BDU. On the fourth day I wore short-sleeve light blue shirt, blue dress slacks uniform.
Here is what I found:
Golf Shirt (8 days) -- not one question from anybody about who or what CAP was.
BDU (1 day) 3 different people asked me about CAP (including 2 people who had sat at the same table with me for 2 days while I was in a golf shirt and hadn't asked anything).
Light Blue Shirt (1/2 day) 3 different people asked about CAP
So, while this obviously wasn't a scientific test, I have proved to myself at least that the military style uniform is preferable if one of your goals is to increase CAP's visibility.
Talk about a timely post...
I'm planning what to pack for a class at EMI starting 12/10/07. I am bringing golf shirt and at least one service uniform (I have both blue and grey aviator shirt combos) with minimal bling. I am not bringing the bbdu, though.
Should be a good class. I'll bring some CAP literature.
FYI, I just wore the nameplate on my blue shirt and the epalets. No ribbons.
I think the CAP Factsheet would be perfect for this sort of setting. I'd put your wing web site on there too.
Quote from: RiverAux on November 29, 2007, 09:16:20 PM
I'd put your wing web site on there too.
I wouldn't put my Wing's website on anything...
However, I've been to a few "inter-agency" training events and the firefighters normally wear whatever their normal uniform is (boots, dark blue work pants, dark blue collar shirt with FD patches on the sleeves or dark blue polo shirt with the FD Cross on it.
I think the polo combo comes closer to matching that than the blues do, but if they are wearing their utility uniform I think it would make sense for us to - when in Rome.
But isn't there a greater advantage for CAP if we stand out and call attention to our organization? Have we done anything for CAP other than receive some training if we basically go incognito?
Now, there isn't really a right or a wrong answer to this issue, but I'd say 6 positive chances to talk about CAP in a day and a half vs 0 chances in 8 days shows that from a public affairs point of view, the military uniforms are far superior. Personally, I think even the white aviator shirt or TPU would probably get the same results.
Of course there are caveats to that -- if the CAP person is slovenly and or is otherwise a poor representative then they probably should be encouraged to go as invisible as possible. Heck, if we're talking about a 350 pounder I'd probably even encourage them to go in real civilian attire with nothing visibly linking them to CAP.
WIWAC we did some inter agency type training with Red Cross and storm spotter training. Since the purpose of each of those training events was based on ES, we wore BDUs. I say wear the uniform whenever it's appropriate because that's usually the best advertising that CAP can get.
Classroom Training: 1550's or Corp Aviator, regardless of what the other agencies are wearing.
The appropriate uniform for the appropriate environment or situation.
In an interagency environment (or any for that matter) if we look and act like professionals, perhaps others will treat us accordingly.
Quote from: RiverAux on November 29, 2007, 08:51:06 PM
Some folks thought that the golf shirt would probably be the best CAP uniform since it would be roughly equivalent in terms of formality with what you could probably expect the other students to be wearing.
Others thought that one of the more "military" uniforms (AF-style or CAP corporate) would be better as they would make you more "visible" and would be better for raising awareness of CAP amongst local responders.
So, while this obviously wasn't a scientific test, I have proved to myself at least that the military style uniform is preferable if one of your goals is to increase CAP's visibility.
I had assumed a similar stance regarding meetings with outside agencies and the golf shirt was my "preferred" uniform. But, RiverAux makes a valid point here and the next time the tri-county ES working group meets, a more military style uniform is called for. That also goes for speaking engagements (there have been two in the last three months). Won't wear all the "bling", but it will definitely be a military-style uniform.
Now, if it is a public speaking engangement I would show up in the full service dress uniform or TPU without a moment's hesitation with the possible exception of a in-school recruiting presentation for cadets (I've gone with BDUs for those occassions in the past on the assumption that cadets might be more interested in wearing them than the blues).
Just attended a multiagency ICS training class on WMD Awareness. It was held at an Army garrison, but only 3 students were soldiers. It was a mixed bunch... I was in a service uniform with lightweight jacket, there was a soldier from the NY Guard wearing the same combination, 3 US Army soldiers wore ACUs, bunch of guys from the city engineers' response team wore jeans and sweatshirts... same for NYPD reps. Dunno... looking back, I'd have fit in better in BDUs (and been more comfortable), but hey, better to overdress than underdress, right?
I would go with the blues without ribbons for a classroom setting. It would be impressive to see a "volunteer" show up in an Air Force uniform vs. just another guy in a polo shirt. Dont compare it to what EMS/Police wear. because we as Police/Fire usually only have ONE uniform to begin with.
Quote from: Flying Pig on November 30, 2007, 06:05:53 PM
I would go with the blues without ribbons for a classroom setting. It would be impressive to see a "volunteer" show up in an Air Force uniform vs. just another guy in a polo shirt. Dont compare it to what EMS/Police wear. because we as Police/Fire usually only have ONE uniform to begin with.
I'm guessing you don't mean that the officers of the NYPD have one uniform combination... They have more than the USAF does. Sweatshirt and jeans not being one of them.
I did the same type of thing awhile back with an ICS course. I would agree with everyone that the best way to publicize is by one of the military uniforms. I did not wear ribbons, but I did wear my wings.
For some reason, people in the general population recognize wings and think that it is something that they want to know more about.
Quote from: afgeo4 on December 01, 2007, 06:38:30 AM
Quote from: Flying Pig on November 30, 2007, 06:05:53 PM
I would go with the blues without ribbons for a classroom setting. It would be impressive to see a "volunteer" show up in an Air Force uniform vs. just another guy in a polo shirt. Dont compare it to what EMS/Police wear. because we as Police/Fire usually only have ONE uniform to begin with.
I'm guessing you don't mean that the officers of the NYPD have one uniform combination... They have more than the USAF does. Sweatshirt and jeans not being one of them.
Most departments have
at least 2 combinations - duty uniform and "class A".
Unlike CAP, we as police/EMS wear our uniforms everyday and will do just about anything to get a day at work without one on. As far as Class A. In many Depts thats a long sleeve shirt with a tie.
One of the recent classes I went to was made up mostly of firemen and polic officers, and it was the firemen that brought the donuts....
^^^^^
Behold, ye who speaks the truth!!!!
Quote from: RiverAux on December 01, 2007, 07:29:42 PM
One of the recent classes I went to recently was made up mostly of firemen and polic officers, and it was the firemen that brought the donuts....
Of course. We have to keep the police happy.
Those are not donuts....
They are POWER RINGS
Quote from: Flying Pig on December 01, 2007, 07:41:19 PM
^^^^^
Behold, ye who speaks the truth!!!!
Don't think there wasn't a lot of ribbing every time one of the cops took one.
Quote from: Smokey on December 01, 2007, 09:45:21 PM
Those are not donuts....
They are POWER RINGS
Nope.
Cop Vitamins >:D
Quote from: JCW0312 on December 01, 2007, 03:01:14 PM
Quote from: afgeo4 on December 01, 2007, 06:38:30 AM
Quote from: Flying Pig on November 30, 2007, 06:05:53 PM
I would go with the blues without ribbons for a classroom setting. It would be impressive to see a "volunteer" show up in an Air Force uniform vs. just another guy in a polo shirt. Dont compare it to what EMS/Police wear. because we as Police/Fire usually only have ONE uniform to begin with.
I'm guessing you don't mean that the officers of the NYPD have one uniform combination... They have more than the USAF does. Sweatshirt and jeans not being one of them.
Most departments have at least 2 combinations - duty uniform and "class A".
There are also hot weather combinations, cold weather combinations, windbreakers, sweat shirts/t-shirts, tactical, bicycle patrol uniforms, motorcycle unit uniforms, mounted, air, etc.
Quote from: afgeo4 on December 10, 2007, 03:11:19 AM
Quote from: JCW0312 on December 01, 2007, 03:01:14 PM
Quote from: afgeo4 on December 01, 2007, 06:38:30 AM
Quote from: Flying Pig on November 30, 2007, 06:05:53 PM
I would go with the blues without ribbons for a classroom setting. It would be impressive to see a "volunteer" show up in an Air Force uniform vs. just another guy in a polo shirt. Dont compare it to what EMS/Police wear. because we as Police/Fire usually only have ONE uniform to begin with.
I'm guessing you don't mean that the officers of the NYPD have one uniform combination... They have more than the USAF does. Sweatshirt and jeans not being one of them.
Most departments have at least 2 combinations - duty uniform and "class A".
There are also hot weather combinations, cold weather combinations, windbreakers, sweat shirts/t-shirts, tactical, bicycle patrol uniforms, motorcycle unit uniforms, mounted, air, etc.
Very true. That's why I said "at least". I know my department has patrol (which includes short sleeve and long sleeve), tactical, bicycle, motorcycle, and K-9. Larger departments have many more.
Quote from: Smokey on December 01, 2007, 09:45:21 PM
Those are not donuts....
They are POWER RINGS
Can I get an AMEN Brother!?!