Should every cadet that joins be routed to an ENCAMPMENT?

[Major Carrales]

As many of us know, many cadets that join do so for many reasons.  Somw do it because they want to be in a local program that gives them what CAP gives all cadets.  A good number may live up to the cadet oath, but have no desire to attend an encampment.

Should a squadron be a pipeline for cadets to go to an encampment?  Should that be the primary goal? What about cadets on such a pipeline that are "not ready" in character or desire, should they be made to go?

I am soliciting opinions with no prior decision or opinion on the subject.  This way also be moved to CADET PROGRAMS threads, however I feel this is systemic.  Many times, especially in Texas, the encampment is a great distance away from home.  I need to know what the rest of the nation does about this...do you send a 12 year-old away from home for the first time "ready of not?"

[Stonewall]

do you send a 12 year-old away from home for the first time "ready of not?"

Short answer: most of the time, yes.

If I feel that a cadet is absolutely not ready for encampment for whatever reason, then I'd likely suggest they wait a year.  But encampment is like going to the gym to work out.  While you may not feel like going, you never regret actually going once you're done.

Right now I've got a new cadet, not even out of T-Flight.  Our group is having an Airman's Academy next month to help indoctrinate new cadets into the program.  It is a Friday night through Sunday afternoon activity.  This is a perfect opportunity for a cadet to hone what they've learned in T-Flight in a good 48 hour period; almost a mini-encampment.  I think he's 13 years old, and his father asked if I would try to encourage him to attend because he's reluctant to be away from home for the first time.  This kid NEEDS to do this weekend event, or he'll never come out of his shell in time for encampment this summer.  He's already saying he's not going to encampment because it's going to be too hard and he won't know anyone.  So yeah, while HE doesn't think he's ready, he NEEDS to go.

I say, get encampment out of the way ASAP.  For many cadets, it can change their lives.  It's still one of my fondest memories of 26 years in the program.

[jimmydeanno]

As many of us know, many cadets that join do so for many reasons.  Somw do it because they want to be in a local program that gives them what CAP gives all cadets.  A good number may live up to the cadet oath, but have no desire to attend an encampment.

Should a squadron be a pipeline for cadets to go to an encampment?  Should that be the primary goal? What about cadets on such a pipeline that are "not ready" in character or desire, should they be made to go?

I am soliciting opinions with no prior decision or opinion on the subject.  This way also be moved to CADET PROGRAMS threads, however I feel this is systemic.  Many times, especially in Texas, the encampment is a great distance away from home.  I need to know what the rest of the nation does about this...do you send a 12 year-old away from home for the first time "ready of not?"

The local commander is supposed to make the determination of "ready or not" based on their signature on the CAPF 31.  It is detrimental for both the cadet and the encampment to endorse someone simply because they're expected to go at some point in their CAP career.

Statistically, cadets who attend encampment are more likely to remain cadets.  There is a direct retention jump when compared to cadets who don't attend encampment.  We can see the same type of jump in cadets who get O-Flights early in their first year of membership.

[Eclipse]

I would say "yes" - the sooner the better.  The NSCC requires annual training and so should we.

[Major Carrales]

Thank you....I agree with most of what you have said.  I, however, don't want the situation where a cadet does to encampment and "freaks out." 

Also, does such a paradigm mean that a squadron becomes an organization who's soul purpose is to raise money for such a thing?   I can bet that becoming a "fundraising conveyor belt" would be a bad thing.  Really easy to "put the cart before the horse" raising money for endless encampments years after year and never doing anything else.  That, I have issues with. 

[Jaison009]

I think encampments are a great learning tool and part of personal growth. Some of my fondest cadet memories come from encampments. This was especially true in Alaska where squadrons did not always get to work together due to geography.  I attended my first one at 13. It gives a cadet a chance to learn about themselves in a structured yet unfamiliar environment.  I think every cadet should attend but I don't think every cadet is mature enough right out of the gate.

[lordmonar]

As many of us know, many cadets that join do so for many reasons.  Somw do it because they want to be in a local program that gives them what CAP gives all cadets.  A good number may live up to the cadet oath, but have no desire to attend an encampment.

Should a squadron be a pipeline for cadets to go to an encampment?  Should that be the primary goal? What about cadets on such a pipeline that are "not ready" in character or desire, should they be made to go?

I am soliciting opinions with no prior decision or opinion on the subject.  This way also be moved to CADET PROGRAMS threads, however I feel this is systemic.  Many times, especially in Texas, the encampment is a great distance away from home.  I need to know what the rest of the nation does about this...do you send a 12 year-old away from home for the first time "ready of not?"

Yes....IMHO we need to change our joining requirments from 12 to 11 and finished with the 6th grade.....that way we recruit right at the end of school and then send them to encampment that summer.

Ecampment can be refocused on the basics.

[jimmydeanno]

Thank you....I agree with most of what you have said.  I, however, don't want the situation where a cadet does to encampment and "freaks out."

Sometimes you can't help that a cadet freaks out.  Some cadets just snap at encampment.  Sometimes it's home issues, other times it's some sort of interaction that occurs at encampment.  Heck, sometimes you have staff cadets who decide to do stupid things on military bases, or break their hand on the wall the night before graduation.  But, you just roll with the punches and try to get them through.

Part of the learning process is pushing your boundaries and comfort zones.  If every cadet waited until they were "ready" they may never go.  It may be a bit bigger challenge than they're used to, but so is public speaking, or drilling a flight of cadets.

[SarDragon]

I wish that I had been able to attend an encampment sooner than as a 17 yo C/TSgt. I joined late as it was, at 15, and I think my CAP experience would have been significantly enhanced by earlier attendance. Attending my first year would have been great.

As for lordmonar's comment about reducing the joining age, the typical student finishes 6th grade at age 12. I finished 6th grade when I was just barely 11, and was in no way ready to go to an encampment at that point in my life.

[PHall]

Should every cadet go to Encampment? Yes, when they are ready..... 

The Squadron Commander by signing the Form 31 is certifying that the cadet is ready to go to Encampment.

Afterall, the Squadron Commander sees this kid every week and knows what their maturity level is.

But if you don't think they're ready for it, then don't send them!!! 

[Terry W.]

As a member and also parent of a Cadet I was a little reluctant for my daughter to go, mainly because I was deployed and figured with me being gone already ten months at that time that I may have been expecting a little much. She joined the program in Sep last year after turning twelve and then went to the KS wing winter encampment in Dec. If anything I figured it would have been a make or break for her in the cadet program and while I didn't want to break her I felt that if she went and enjoyed it under those circumstances then she did want to be a cadet. Needless to say like all other cadets it was a rocky start, but she loved it and is applying for a staff position this year and has progressed three times already and is working on her Wright Brothers Achievement. I couldn't be more proud.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I showed up to my first meeting 10 days short of 10 years ago. Just about a week or so before ILWG Spring Encampment. I didn't get on the books until May, and my first encampment was the following April in 2004 as a C/SSgt.

At age 14, I had already spent quite a few weekends/weeks away from home with family, friends, camps, etc. Being away from home for two weekends was no biggie. But MAN do I wish I had joined six months earlier when my friend first tried to recruit me! To think, I would have seen a Lt. Eclipse as the Encampment Commander, and would have had an extra year at the encampment...

I was ready at 13. Some are not. But Encampment isn't a scary/dangerous/abusive place. NO Cadet should have any issues besides initial butterflies in the stomach.

[ol'fido]

There is no cookie cutter cadet and no cookie cutter answer. In nearly 20 encampments, I have seen cadets who were sent too early and I have seen cadets who were 12(and short enough they had to reach UP to put their tray on the chow line to receive their food) get called up at the graduation parade to receive awards. I have also seen 16 or 17 year old cadets go home in the middle of the week for homesickness. There are in my opinion three criteria on whether a cadet will make it at encampment(JMHO):

1. Does the squadron staff feel they are ready.

2. Does the cadet feel they are ready.

3. What kind of prep have they received at their home unit for encampment. Did they show up ready for "encampment" or did they show up ready for "summer camp".

Some of the ones we have had the most problems with are those who were showing up ready for "summer camp" and those who didn't want to go but Mom and Dad said they were going whether they wanted to or not.

[NIN]

IMHO, Encampment is a huge retention item.

I joined CAP in May, my membership did not get processed until late in June, and I went to my first encampment in July without an ID card. They had the old school green-bar printout literally FedEx'd up from NHQ the day before the start of encampment so they could confirm new members on the spot.  I was on the printout (whew!)   Didn't even know my CAPID until I inprocessed encampment (my paperwork all said "PENDING" under CAPID)!  Two cutouts, no nametags. I was Cadet Green or Cadet Blue depending on which uniform we were in.

That said, I spent 28 continuous years in CAP.  Correlation? I think so.

[Eclipse]

Encampments generally show members, both cadets and senior, how CAP is supposed to look and act, that's one of the
reasons they exist - to provide that view to the membership, which then should take it back to their units and grow
that view with those who haven't been yet, and correct unit conflicts with the proper vision.

Far too many members stay cocooned within their own squadron, many times at the encouragement of their commanders, and aren't exposed to the "real"
CAP until they attend an encampment or other large-scale activity.

A lot of what is wrong with CAP could be corrected through mandating cadets and seniors attend an encampment or similar basic training-type activity
within their first 6 months of membership.

[NIN]

A lot of what is wrong with CAP could be corrected through the mandating cadets and seniors attend an encampment or similar basic training-type activity within their first 6 months of membership.

I have experience with another organization (USAC) where cadets did not become "cadets" (they were "recruits") until they completed Basic Cadet Training during Annual Training. And it worked pretty well. Was it expensive? Yes.  A two week AT for a recruit from a unit was around $400, I think, plus travel.   Officer Candidates and Officers were required to go, too. Want to get promoted from 2LT to 1LT? If you haven't been to AT since you graduated OCS, you're likely not making rank.  Thats how it worked.

I have advocated for years that with the reduction of military training sites & resources available for CAP's use due to, say,  the closure of AF bases, reduction & restriction on support dollars from CAP-USAF, etc, that CAP could get more bang for its buck by moving to a more regional training system for encampments. Instead of 45+ wings holding their individual encampments, host 8-10 regional events.  You'd get FAR more consistent training, economies of scale would help keep costs down, and you could avoid stepping on NCSAs (maybe).  Plus, you'd likely better utilize the facilities at your specific training site (ie. like Fort Dix or Fort Devens...).

Using NER as an example, with some analysis of the membership data (concentrations, "center of gravity," etc), an encampment held at Fort Devens, MA might well serve the 6 wings of New England (VT, NH, ME, MA, CT & RI) where the furthest a cadet might have to travel is 3-4 hrs in a car from northern Maine or the far, far, SW corner of CT.  Likewise, an encampment held at Fort Dix, with its proximity to McGuire, could serve the ENTIRE NER if a little airlift support was available for cadets from Western NY & PA (say, a Herk from Pittsburg flying to Buffalo and then stopping at, say, Syracuse or Utica to get people) and Northern New England (Burlington, Bangor, Pease).

Should EVERY cadet go in their first year? Maybe not EVERY cadet.   There are surely some 12 year olds who might not cut the mustard for a year or more.  I was 14 when I went, so I had a little cushion. I could have gone the year before with no issue, though.

[Major Carrales]

Now, for some focus on another portion of my question. 

Should a Cadet Squadron become a PIPELINE for getting cadets to encampment?

By that I mean should 90 plus percent of squadron activities be for fundraising and gearing up cadets for only that purpose?  I can see this happening if certain mandates alluded to above were made so.  I can also see a loss of motivation and phrases like "All we do is RAISE MONEY" "Can't we do ES stuff like the DOWNTHEROAD Composite Squadron" and "This @#$%#$, I got better things to do than sell popcorn or wash cars every weekend, I thought I joined a Cadet Program."

Of this, I have developed an opinion...but I need it refined, please continue.

[Eclipse]

Should EVERY cadet go in their first year? Maybe not EVERY cadet.   There are surely some 12 year olds who might not cut the mustard for a year or more.  I was 14 when I went, so I had a little cushion. I could have gone the year before with no issue, though.

What's sad is the tissue paper kids we're creating these days.  I was discussing this with my successor this week - he's got parents of 14 years olds concerned about whether they are "ready" - and this
is for a weekend encampment, not even a whole week in a chunk!

My #1 is 11 and just crossed-over to Boy Scouts.  He's jazzed about summer camp, and has already done a multi-night over nighter retreat with his school (at 10).

We need to land the helicopters and get kids to put down the screens and get into the real world.

Back on track - I think a regional approach might be a good idea, certainly should be considered, but there are some scale issues that will be a problem for larger regions.  Even military
bases have finite resources and there are some realities about how well you can move large groups.    The average encampment of 100-200 cadets (plus 50+ staff) is manageable, but above that
things start to potentially get very difficult to manage, and a lot of bases wouldn't have the ability to support those numbers for a transient group.

For smaller wings and regions, it might be a better solution - one encampment of 150 is probably better then 30 that have 50, and up in NER, the wing-to-wing travel time is probably the
same as within the larger states.

[Eclipse]

Should a Cadet Squadron become a PIPELINE for getting cadets to encampment?

No.  That's not their role.

Encampments are important, but should not be the focus of a unit, they are a once-a-year type activity and there's a lot more to CAP then the baseline of an encampment.

I think encampments should be treated like SAREx - you get your training at home, and then show your abilities at encampment.

[NIN]

For smaller wings and regions, it might be a better solution - one encampment of 150 is probably better then 30 that have 50, and up in NER, the wing-to-wing travel time is probably the same as within the larger states.

Yeah, those regions (ie. PACR) might have two or three, even.

Example: GLR has two USAF/ANG training sites (Volk Field & Alpena) that are setup to accommodate entire units deploying to them.  There are several other sites like this (Gulfport was one, not sure if it still is, and Savannah) around the country.  Plus there are places where you have USAR/ARNG facilities near an AF Base (Dix/McGuire is a good example) if billeting becomes an issue.

I think the larger issue in moving to that model is overcoming the parochial inertia that exists in wings who believe that their model is the "One True Way™" of encampment, and that anything else is just Brand X.

I have said before: "If thats the way you feel, then bring your A Game to the table and contribute. But don't sit there and act like your way is the only way."  15+ years ago there was supposed to be a nationwide Encampment Training Manual published (which is part of the reason most of the "tactical" information for encampment was ripped out of CAPR 50-16/52-16) that incorporated a lot of the "best practices" from around the country.   But there were some wings/wing commanders who put the kibosh on the whole thing because it would have required them to admit/accept that while their program was good, maybe, just maybe there was a best-practice from somewhere else that was good, too.