Non-Doctor & Non-Nurse Medical Personnel

[Private Investigator]

The question is, if pilots/flight crew can wear flightsuits, can medical personnel wear scrubs?  If so, which color and embroidered, plastic, sewn on, or metal bling?  Do we wear OR hats, jungle caps, or Flight caps?  IIRC in the Army, we wore whites with Flight caps (or overseas caps or ---- caps).  I think we are onto something here.  I go for blue scrubs and not woodland..  White shoes with crepe soles or potato loafers??

And I already own a few pairs from my last deployment

Now this is a great uniform thread, thank you sir for sharing   :clap:

[Shuman 14]

How many paid medical professionals are going to volunteer their time to treat other paid professionals
while at the same time knowing they are taking another paid professional's job?

That last part won't get us on anyone's Christmas card list, either.

Times of crisis are one thing, normal operations are another, not to mention the non-trivial issue
of command authority over people not covered by UCMJ, and who probably outrank everyone in the room.

And if you want to suggest that members serve in something other then their CAP uniform, and with no
acknowledgement of their CAP grade, like VSAF, then those aren't really CAP members, they are just people
on a mailing list, and they might as well just go up to the VC and volunteer directly and leave CAP out of it.

In fact, owing to the existing prohibitions regarding medical services, they would be better off volunteering
directly without the encumbrances of CAP affiliation. As a "Dr." they can do whatever they want, as a CAP
HSO, they can't.

You act like this is something impossible to do... happens everyday in the USCGAux. CAP and the USAF need only to request copies of USCG/USCGAux MOR's, regulations, etc. and do a cut-n-paste to make the needed regulations/instructions.

BTW, isn't every CAP senior member a "paid professional" in whatever job they do in the civilian world?

Doesn't in make sense to for a "volunteer" to volunteer their skills where and when needed?

Rank shouldn't be an issue.

[Shuman 14]

Most of the objections raised here could be overcome fairly easily and others are just groundless.

:clap:

[Storm Chaser]

How many paid medical professionals are going to volunteer their time to treat other paid professionals
while at the same time knowing they are taking another paid professional's job?

That last part won't get us on anyone's Christmas card list, either.

Times of crisis are one thing, normal operations are another, not to mention the non-trivial issue
of command authority over people not covered by UCMJ, and who probably outrank everyone in the room.

And if you want to suggest that members serve in something other then their CAP uniform, and with no
acknowledgement of their CAP grade, like VSAF, then those aren't really CAP members, they are just people
on a mailing list, and they might as well just go up to the VC and volunteer directly and leave CAP out of it.

In fact, owing to the existing prohibitions regarding medical services, they would be better off volunteering
directly without the encumbrances of CAP affiliation. As a "Dr." they can do whatever they want, as a CAP
HSO, they can't.

You act like this is something impossible to do... happens everyday in the USCGAux. CAP and the USAF need only to request copies of USCG/USCGAux MOR's, regulations, etc. and do a cut-n-paste to make the needed regulations/instructions.

BTW, isn't every CAP senior member a "paid professional" in whatever job they do in the civilian world?

Doesn't in make sense to for a "volunteer" to volunteer their skills where and when needed?

Rank shouldn't be an issue.

Nothing is impossible, but just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be done.

Doesn't in make sense to for a "volunteer" to volunteer their skills where and when needed?

You tell me.

[Eclipse]

Nothing is impossible, but just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be done.

Doesn't in make sense to for a "volunteer" to volunteer their skills where and when needed?

You tell me.

+1 - Not to mention saying "something happens all the time somewhere" has little relevance to the specific situation.

Not to mention that helping out on boat inspections is a far cry from providing medical care.  Feel free to indicate
the whens and where that USCG Health Care Professionals are augmenting in that way.

Edit: Apparently they do.

[PA Guy]

Nothing is impossible, but just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be done.

Doesn't in make sense to for a "volunteer" to volunteer their skills where and when needed?

You tell me.

+1 - Not to mention saying "something happens all the time somewhere" has little relevance to the specific situation.

Not to mention that helping out on boat inspections is a far cry from providing medical care.  Feel free to indicate
the whens and where that USCG Health Care Professionals are augmenting in that way.

This has been discussed previously. Myself and other Auxies augment on a freq basis in Coast Guard clinics performing the same medical and dental  tasks as our CG partners. Boat inspections indeed where did that come from. I thought we were discussing health issues.

I will leave you to have the last word since it seems to mean so much to you.

[Shuman 14]

Edit: Apparently they do.

http://wow.uscgaux.info/content.php?unit=H-DEPT&category=auxiliary-health-services

Yes they do.

[Storm Chaser]

Edit: Apparently they do.

http://wow.uscgaux.info/content.php?unit=H-DEPT&category=auxiliary-health-services

Yes they do.

Auxiliary status notwithstanding, Civil Air Patrol and the U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary are two completely different things.

[Shuman 14]

True, but if the USAF and CAP wanted to develop a program to use CAP senior member's civilian medical skills, here is a program they could copy and modify to fit the USAF's needs and CAP's abilities, that's all I'm saying.

[RiverAux]

Auxiliary status notwithstanding, Civil Air Patrol and the U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary are two completely different things.

Yes, but the law that lets the CG use its Aux in this way is basically identical to law cited earlier describing what the AF is authorized to use CAP for. 

The important difference isn't that between CAP and CG Aux, it is between the AF and the CG.  One service is widely distributed in small, under-staffed units while the other is quite large and furthermore is concentrated in relatively few, very large bases with thousands of people on them. 

It is possible that there may actually be a staffing problem at AF medical units.  No one here really knows.  If there is, CAP may be one way that problem could be addressed, perhaps not entirely, but to some extent. 

[FW]

Auxiliary status notwithstanding, Civil Air Patrol and the U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary are two completely different things.

It is possible that there may actually be a staffing problem at AF medical units.  No one here really knows.  If there is, CAP may be one way that problem could be addressed, perhaps not entirely, but to some extent.

There are no medical staffing problems in any DoD units.  They are actually turning down applications for some "specialties".  Asking CAP to fill in, like in the Chaplain Corps, is totally unnecessary.  If there is a need, they fill it with reserve/guard personnel.  When that doesn't work, there are civilian DoD contractors. 

Why we have a "Health Service Corps" is something which can be a topic of discussion, however in my opinion, the possibility of augmenting the AF Medical Service with CAP volunteers is just humorous.

[Shuman 14]

There are no medical staffing problems in any DoD units

Cite please.

[sarmed1]

If there is a need, they fill it with reserve/guard personnel.  When that doesn't work, there are civilian DoD contractors

And that would then indeed indicate there is a staffing problem.  And it isnt that easy; RES/NG can only be "mandated" for 14 days per year short of a presidential type activation; otherwise you have to ask for "volunteers"; and that money to pay them for the duty outside of the normal planning has to come from some where.  In the NG that money is usually reserved for state active duty for disasters; the Reserve side has a bigger flex pot, but someone somewhere else will likely get short changed then.  (especially if it doesnt involve flying hours, that money only gets released with a lot of string pulling)  Contractors are no easy thing either.  I remember one base brining on paramedics to run EMS (as contractors) from the time they said they were going to "do it" to the time the first medics started reporting was easy 6-8 months, and easily another 2-3 until they were oriented and released.

I wasnt saying it was a constant shortfall, only that I have been present when it has been an issue, maybe or maybe not an area CAP could have been utilized if there was a system in place to do it.  It is the proverbial solution looking for a problem.

MK

[Eclipse]

And that would then indeed indicate there is a staffing problem.  And it isnt that easy; RES/NG can only be "mandated" for 14 days per year short of a presidential type activation; otherwise you have to ask for "volunteers"; and that money to pay them for the duty outside of the normal planning has to come from some where.  In the NG that money is usually reserved for state active duty for disasters; the Reserve side has a bigger flex pot, but someone somewhere else will likely get short changed then.  (especially if it doesnt involve flying hours, that money only gets released with a lot of string pulling)  Contractors are no easy thing either.  I remember one base brining on paramedics to run EMS (as contractors) from the time they said they were going to "do it" to the time the first medics started reporting was easy 6-8 months, and easily another 2-3 until they were oriented and released.

I can tell you from personal experience that "people working for free in normally paid roles" has been specifically cited as a reason CAP is not
called up more often in my state. So in my wing, at least in terms of the Guard, it's likely a non-starter.  Such is life in a state controlled by unions and
special interests, but that isn't going to change any time soon.

That might be different on the Federal side, but with only one significant USAF installation, away from the major population centers,
CAP's raw ability to provide in this case would be severely limited, assuming it was a good idea to start with.

Other wings may not have the same challenges with more / larger USAF presence and less sensitivity towards "free".

[FW]

There are no medical staffing problems in any DoD units

Cite please.

When it comes to domestic military healthcare, there are numerous studies showing adequate coverage; either thru the AF medical service, or Tri-Care.  There are problems dealing with overseas members.  These shortages are dealt with by civilian facilities augmenting military personnel.  There is a recent GAO study showing that.  CAP is not a realistic option for overseas shortages.
Domestic requirements are met by active duty, reserve, guard, and civilian contractors.  Tri-Care is the military insurance program for military family members, and seems to be working well.  There is no reason for the AF to ask for CAP's help, and why would it?  Current medical personnel and insurance do the trick...

[Storm Chaser]

There are no medical staffing problems in any DoD units

Cite please.

Cite that there is.

[RiverAux]

Apparently, the military is somewhat understaffed in its operationally-related medical staffing needs, but is otherwise doing ok.  https://www.ida.org/~/media/Corporate/Files/Publications/IDA_Documents/CARD/P-5047.ashx

I suppose that if there were a super significant CAP involvement in medical issues it possibly could free up folks to be available for operations, but I doubt we could have that level of impact. 

But, seeing as how one of the suggestions in the report cited above is to consider putting AD medical personnel in VA and civilian hospitals to help maintain their skills which don't get enough of a workout in military facilities, it seems like there isn't a big need for CAP. 

There apparently are some sort of federal laws that make it difficult to use civilians to staff military units that could come into play. 

[Private Investigator]

Auxiliary status notwithstanding, Civil Air Patrol and the U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary are two completely different things.

Yes, but the law that lets the CG use its Aux in this way is basically identical to law cited earlier describing what the AF is authorized to use CAP for. 

The important difference isn't that between CAP and CG Aux, it is between the AF and the CG.  One service is widely distributed in small, under-staffed units while the other is quite large and furthermore is concentrated in relatively few, very large bases with thousands of people on them. 

It is possible that there may actually be a staffing problem at AF medical units.  No one here really knows.  If there is, CAP may be one way that problem could be addressed, perhaps not entirely, but to some extent.

I think everyone is trying to compare donkeys to ponies. You have to respect donkeys for what they are but they are not ponies. And vice versa.

BTW, anybody see my orange 

[supertigerCH]

Apparently the CG Aux (and the command of the Coast Guard as well) is way more into this idea of Auxiliary augmentation that the Air Force is.


They even bring in CG Aux to augment with Food Service (FS)


http://wow.uscgaux.info/content.php?unit=H-DEPT&category=auxchef



I wonder what additional ways the CG will come up with in the future... but i guess that is a line of conversation that is not for this thread...

[Storm Chaser]

Apparently the CG Aux (and the command of the Coast Guard as well) is way more into this idea of Auxiliary augmentation that the Air Force is.

That may be because augmenting the Coast Guard is one or their Auxiliary missions. CAP has other important missions and, except for limited instances, augmentation is not one of them.