Uniform(s) worn most frequently?

[Майор Хаткевич]

Well, this degenerated into a regulation-quote skirmish soon enough.

I might as well muddy the waters a bit:

CAPR 50-17
3-1. Participation.
CAP requires senior members to complete Level I training prior to receiving any assigned duty position in the unit, directly supervising cadets on their own, being allowed to wear the Air Force-style CAP uniform, becoming eligible for promotion, or enrolling in AU A4/6 courses.

As such, according to regs, they're not even allowed to wear Blues until completing Level I.

Right. Demonstrate that you know the name plate doesn't go on the pocket Army style, and wraps up that level 1 all in one night!

[Panache]

Right. Demonstrate that you know the name plate doesn't go on the pocket Army style, and wraps up that level 1 all in one night!

The new "expanded" Level I (effective as of September 2013) is taking our squadron about 3-4 weeks to run through with new members.  But that's besides the point.  Yet again, we have two sets of regs directly contradicting each other.

[johnnyb47]

So...because you don't feel like they need the uniform, you skip this: "Should is also used in all three persons to express duty or obligation (the equivalent of ought to)", and go to wishy washy? But its not common sense, for a member to know how to wear an organizations uniforms, or to actually have it to demonstrate that knowledge. Much more fun to get wrapped up in whether Should should have been a Will. Should is past tense of Shall. Will is a lot like Shall. At least to this Eastern European mutt.

I NEVER said I don't feel like they need a uniform.
You said they couldn't have a polo first by regulation.
I argued that this is incorrect.

Talk about mental gymnastics!

the level 1 stuff I merely asked about and pointed out the only stuff I could find.
I still want to know; Can anyone find the regulatory requirement to posess a MBU prior to Level 1 completion?

[Elioron]

The polo is a cheap equivalent to the AF short-sleeved blues.  For $24 you can have the member show up in uniform while they put together the other combinations.  Some on this board evidently have no issues finding large numbers of financially well-off people swelling their membership.

If you are telling people in the polo combination they are not in uniform when the UOD is blues, you are wrong.

[THRAWN]

Meanwhile, I hope that the OP got his question answered....

[Майор Хаткевич]

The polo is a cheap equivalent to the AF short-sleeved blues.  For $24 you can have the member show up in uniform while they put together the other combinations.  Some on this board evidently have no issues finding large numbers of financially well-off people swelling their membership.

If you are telling people in the polo combination they are not in uniform when the UOD is blues, you are wrong.

Cite please.

[abdsp51]

The polo is a cheap equivalent to the AF short-sleeved blues.  For $24 you can have the member show up in uniform while they put together the other combinations.  Some on this board evidently have no issues finding large numbers of financially well-off people swelling their membership.

If you are telling people in the polo combination they are not in uniform when the UOD is blues, you are wrong.

If I as an activity director say the UoD is Blues or G/W and someone shows up in a polo I can tell them they are wrong and send them packing.  You can argue equivalant or not but if the UoD is listed as a specific uniform and you dont show up in it you are wrong.

[Eclipse]

The polo is a cheap equivalent to the AF short-sleeved blues.  For $24 you can have the member show up in uniform while they put together the other combinations.  Some on this board evidently have no issues finding large numbers of financially well-off people swelling their membership.

If you are telling people in the polo combination they are not in uniform when the UOD is blues, you are wrong.

If I as an activity director say the UoD is Blues or G/W and someone shows up in a polo I can tell them they are wrong and send them packing.  You can argue equivalant or not but if the UoD is listed as a specific uniform and you dont show up in it you are wrong.

+1 - and the regs explicitly allow CC's to set UOD for seniors.

[Майор Хаткевич]

The polo is a cheap equivalent to the AF short-sleeved blues.  For $24 you can have the member show up in uniform while they put together the other combinations.  Some on this board evidently have no issues finding large numbers of financially well-off people swelling their membership.

If you are telling people in the polo combination they are not in uniform when the UOD is blues, you are wrong.

If I as an activity director say the UoD is Blues or G/W and someone shows up in a polo I can tell them they are wrong and send them packing.  You can argue equivalant or not but if the UoD is listed as a specific uniform and you dont show up in it you are wrong.

+1 - and the regs explicitly allow CC's to set UOD for seniors.

Forget all that. I want to see how a polo is equivalent to Blues or G/Ws.

[Eclipse]

The equivalency charts make that ridiculous assertion, so it's in there.

Common sense says "seriously"?

"You can't, I won't, you can't make me." Say "Loophole!"

[arajca]

The polo is a cheap equivalent to the AF short-sleeved blues.  For $24 you can have the member show up in uniform while they put together the other combinations.  Some on this board evidently have no issues finding large numbers of financially well-off people swelling their membership.

If you are telling people in the polo combination they are not in uniform when the UOD is blues, you are wrong.

If I as an activity director say the UoD is Blues or G/W and someone shows up in a polo I can tell them they are wrong and send them packing.  You can argue equivalant or not but if the UoD is listed as a specific uniform and you dont show up in it you are wrong.

So, if you specify the UOD is AF blues and I show up in the aviator shirt, do I get sent home? After all, I'm not wearing the UOD.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Should not, because if the UOD is Blues, regulations state "or." So by regulations, the AF Blues and G/W are equivalent.

The polo is not mentioned, has not been made equivalent by any ICL, so the person coming in polo is out of uniform.

Flyer

[Eclipse]

^ Exactly.

You know, there's always one kid in the school chorus wearing a green shirt even though the note sent home
said "white shirt / black pants", because mom decided "this is better".

Most people strive to not be that kid, but there's always a few who think everything in life needs to be a protest against the man.

[johnnyb47]

Should not, because if the UOD is Blues, regulations state "or." So by regulations, the AF Blues and G/W are equivalent.

The polo is not mentioned, has not been made equivalent by any ICL, so the person coming in polo is out of uniform.

Flyer

Actually in CAPM 39-1, Table 4-8 lists it as the 'Knit Shirt' and equates it to the short sleve blues AF uniform.
It DOES, however state "Unless Otherwise Specified".
I would take that to mean that a commander may say, "UoD is blues or g&w... NO POLO (knit shirts)"

[THRAWN]

Should not, because if the UOD is Blues, regulations state "or." So by regulations, the AF Blues and G/W are equivalent.

The polo is not mentioned, has not been made equivalent by any ICL, so the person coming in polo is out of uniform.

Flyer

Actually in CAPM 39-1, Table 4-8 lists it as the 'Knit Shirt' and equates it to the short sleve blues AF uniform.
It DOES, however state "Unless Otherwise Specified".
I would take that to mean that a commander may say, "UoD is blues or g&w... NO POLO (knit shirts)"

Correct. Usually done for meetings or when the polo would just be inappropriate (i.e. high level visitors, photos being taken, etc...).

[Elioron]

The polo is a cheap equivalent to the AF short-sleeved blues.  For $24 you can have the member show up in uniform while they put together the other combinations.  Some on this board evidently have no issues finding large numbers of financially well-off people swelling their membership.

If you are telling people in the polo combination they are not in uniform when the UOD is blues, you are wrong.

Cite please.

CAPR 39-1, Chap 4, Table 4-8

The equivalency charts make that ridiculous assertion, so it's in there.

Common sense says "seriously"?

"You can't, I won't, you can't make me." Say "Loophole!"

So it's fine to ignore things in regulations when you personally don't like them.  Gotcha.

How about this for an idea: do what's best for the mission!  If you're willing to send somebody who's willing to work packing because they wear an approved uniform that you don't like, I would question your motivations and commitment to our Core Values and EO policies.

[Eclipse]

How about this for an idea: do what's best for the mission!  If you're willing to send somebody who's willing to work packing because they wear an approved uniform that you don't like, I would question your motivations and commitment to our Core Values and EO policies.

EO?  Are you serious?

As indicated "unless otherwise specified".

A member's intent and willingness to work are literally irrelevant to this conversation.

The regs say "possess MBU", they say nothing else in this regard, nor do they suggest "golf shirt is fine until you feel like complying".
If yo want to play the reg game, yo can't simply ignore, extend or enhance the existing text for convenience.

[johnnyb47]

The polo is a cheap equivalent to the AF short-sleeved blues.  For $24 you can have the member show up in uniform while they put together the other combinations.  Some on this board evidently have no issues finding large numbers of financially well-off people swelling their membership.

If you are telling people in the polo combination they are not in uniform when the UOD is blues, you are wrong.

Cite please.

CAPR 39-1, Chap 4, Table 4-8

The equivalency charts make that ridiculous assertion, so it's in there.

Common sense says "seriously"?

"You can't, I won't, you can't make me." Say "Loophole!"

So it's fine to ignore things in regulations when you personally don't like them.  Gotcha.

How about this for an idea: do what's best for the mission!  If you're willing to send somebody who's willing to work packing because they wear an approved uniform that you don't like, I would question your motivations and commitment to our Core Values and EO policies.

In this instance you do have to remember;
The polo shirt is ONLY equivalent when the commander doesn't say that it isn't.
Of the three it is the only one that the commander can tell you not to wear when blues is prescribed.

So it may be equal.... but the second a commander says, "our members may never wear a polo to our meetings" it no longer is.
Would most? Probably not. But they can.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Johnny, you are nit-picking (excuse the pun). When you do that you lose sight of the forest.

When the commander says "UOD is AF Blues," he has specified. Plain and simple.

Flyer

[Elioron]

In this instance you do have to remember;
The polo shirt is ONLY equivalent when the commander doesn't say that it isn't.
Of the three it is the only one that the commander can tell you not to wear when blues is prescribed.

So it may be equal.... but the second a commander says, "our members may never wear a polo to our meetings" it no longer is.
Would most? Probably not. But they can.

I guess this goes to the discussion that some people shouldn't be commanders.  A leader that would ostracize productive members shouldn't expect much sympathy from upper echelons when things don't get done.