Vehicle Fleet Age.

[afgeo4]

Okay, so our group has recently received a van replacement (after a few years of not having one at all) and not to sound like I'm not grateful or anything because our group, although has over 200 members in a city of over 8,000,000 doesn't have many licensed drivers (we take the public transport quite a lot). Of course I'm very thankful to have a vehicle to use since not all activities we go to are in the City itself and we simply need transportation. We also can't use any of the city's airports to keep our aircraft, so we have to use Westchester Co (HPN), Teterboro (TET) or airports in Long Island like ISP... we need a van to get out there and to do UDF.

Okay... you might be asking, "what is he driving at here?"  Well... that new van is a 1991 Chevy and although it has just 45,000 or so on it, it's really old and has many rust spots. A few things don't work on it and many don't work well (like gauges lighting, wipers, etc). The question is... is 18 years too much for a corporate vehicle? What years are your vehicles?

The vehicle is fairly safe to operate, but it's... well, let me just say that its age is showing.  I don't want to get into the whole PR thing here because I get it. It's not good PR to be the oldest, rustiest vehicle on the road with blaring Civil Air Patrol decals, especially in a high priority wealthy city like NYC. I just want to know what the average age for our fleet is and if this is abnormal.

[RiverAux]

many don't work well (like gauges lighting, wipers, etc).

Doesn't sound too safe to me. 

Abnormal?  Probably not really. 

[DC]

I don't know exactly what year my squadron van is, but I'd estimate late '90s early '00s.

I have only seen a few CAP vehicles that are as old as you describe, and I don't think any of them were that old.

[Gunner C]

I know that you guys have a large group, but how did you guys get one of the newer ones? 

It might be possible to invest some money in some money in a face lift.  Since the vehicle is in good working order, the best way to proceed might be to raise some funds for repairs or see if you could get some businesses to donate materials/skills in its renovation.  You could get some PAO support to showcase what the businesses are doing to help you.  This could be couched in "saving government money" by keeping the vehicle useable.  This wouldn't hurt your recruiting, either.

[NC Hokie]

Our 1994 Dodge 12 pax is almost as old as yours, but yours is in much worse shape...I hope you're not on the hook for catching up all of the maintenance it's missed.

The good news is that you have an opportunity to use it enough to justify getting something better once it's finally retired.

[Eclipse]

Our 1994 Dodge 12 pax is almost as old as yours, but yours is in much worse shape...I hope you're not on the hook for catching up all of the maintenance it's missed.

Maintenance is not the responsibility of the unit or the Wing - the USAF pays for all repairs over and above oil changes, and lately they have been paying for those as well.

If you have a rust-bucket with faulty equipment, the vehicle needs to be rehabbed, and the USAF will do it assuming the paperwork is done properly.  This includes paint and decals.  In my Wing A/C inop is considered a safety issue in the summer.

About a year ago I received a 96 12-pack which had been fairly recently repainted and re-stickered, etc.    It had some issues with the ABS and other "less-than-major", but still important repairs. The USAF covered everything with no hassle and a quick check because the forms were completed properly and the Wing LG hand-held them.

This is another thing I will give my wing staff credit on, they are fast on turning around CAP DL's, the abstracts are now free, and vehicle maintenance is a non-issue.

I'd start making a list, or better yet take it to a dealer and get an estimate on zeroing out the vehicle and then start working the process.  Your units LGT should be able to work direct with Wing to expedite.

[Airrace]

Okay, so our group has recently received a van replacement (after a few years of not having one at all) and not to sound like I'm not grateful or anything because our group, although has over 200 members in a city of over 8,000,000 doesn't have many licensed drivers (we take the public transport quite a lot). Of course I'm very thankful to have a vehicle to use since not all activities we go to are in the City itself and we simply need transportation. We also can't use any of the city's airports to keep our aircraft, so we have to use Westchester Co (HPN), Teterboro (TET) or airports in Long Island like ISP... we need a van to get out there and to do UDF.

Okay... you might be asking, "what is he driving at here?"  Well... that new van is a 1991 Chevy and although it has just 45,000 or so on it, it's really old and has many rust spots. A few things don't work on it and many don't work well (like gauges lighting, wipers, etc). The question is... is 18 years too much for a corporate vehicle? What years are your vehicles?

The vehicle is fairly safe to operate, but it's... well, let me just say that its age is showing.  I don't want to get into the whole PR thing here because I get it. It's not good PR to be the oldest, rustiest vehicle on the road with blaring Civil Air Patrol decals, especially in a high priority wealthy city like NYC. I just want to know what the average age for our fleet is and if this is abnormal.

Be glad to just have a vechicle. Our squadron has no van and the vechicle we have was donated by a member. Get the items repaired so it's safe!

[brasda91]

1995 12-pax Ford.  Paint is still in good condition, no rust, and no dings.

[jimmydeanno]

Our unit has a 1996 Ford E-350 Clubwagon, 12-Pax.  It currently has 42561 miles on it, four-thousand of which we've put on this year.

It's in great condition, no rust, shiny paint, etc.  However, the last two years we've had to have some maintenance done (courtesy of the American Taxpayer).  We've had the ABS sensors changed, new brakes all around, new batter, serpentine belt and water pump.  We also had a recall item for some valve in the master cylinder.

I think the oldest vehicle in our wing is a 1986 Dodge 12-Pax.  That thing needs to be scrapped.  The paint is all powdery (they won't paint it because it's too old), it has rust, dents, etc.  The ceiling inside is coming down, there's holes in the seats, etc.  It only has 30K miles on it.  It needs to go.

So, don't start dropping money out of your squadron account to have it fixed.  Put in the maintenance request and have the USAF pay for it.  They hardly ever pay for an expense afterwards, unless it was an emergency repair.

[Flying Pig]

Your units have vans?  Wow.  I have a 60 member unit with nothing.

[jimmydeanno]

Your units have vans?  Wow.  I have a 60 member unit with nothing.

...and ours is 84, what's that matter?  Someone has to have the 1,500 some odd vans we have...

[Major Carrales]

We have a 1991 Dodge.

[Eclipse]

Our unit has a 1996 Ford E-350 Clubwagon, 12-Pax.  It currently has 42561 miles on it, four-thousand of which we've put on this year.

It's in great condition, no rust, shiny paint, etc.  However, the last two years we've had to have some maintenance done (courtesy of the American Taxpayer).  We've had the ABS sensors changed, new brakes all around, new batter, serpentine belt and water pump.  We also had a recall item for some valve in the master cylinder.

Ditto - ABS sensors seem to be a real issue for those mid-90's Ford vans.

[Eclipse]

Your units have vans?  Wow.  I have a 60 member unit with nothing.

Has your unit / group ever formally requested one?

When you submitted the request were any available to issue?

Do you have the activity-participation level outside the squadron to support the need for a vehicle?  Does your Group already have several or is there another in fairly close to proximity?

[EMT-83]

If you need to use a POV because you don't have a van, remember to document this and send the paperwork up the chain of command - every time. That, along with  your properly submitted request for a vehicle, should help keep you in mind when group/wing has a new van to issue.

[Flying Pig]

Your units have vans?  Wow.  I have a 60 member unit with nothing.

Has your unit / group ever formally requested one?

When you submitted the request were any available to issue?

Do you have the activity-participation level outside the squadron to support the need for a vehicle?  Does your Group already have several or is there another in fairly close to proximity?

Yes
Yes
Yes
No

What can ya do huh?  Someday our ship will come.

[MikeD]

Your units have vans?  Wow.  I have a 60 member unit with nothing.

...and ours is 84, what's that matter?  Someone has to have the 1,500 some odd vans we have...

In before me.  We have the same vintage.  I think it's still running ok. 

[JCJ]

Our unit has a 1996 Ford E-350 Clubwagon, 12-Pax.  It currently has 42561 miles on it, four-thousand of which we've put on this year.

It's in great condition, no rust, shiny paint, etc.  However, the last two years we've had to have some maintenance done (courtesy of the American Taxpayer).  We've had the ABS sensors changed, new brakes all around, new batter, serpentine belt and water pump.  We also had a recall item for some valve in the master cylinder.

I think the oldest vehicle in our wing is a 1986 Dodge 12-Pax.  That thing needs to be scrapped.  The paint is all powdery (they won't paint it because it's too old), it has rust, dents, etc.  The ceiling inside is coming down, there's holes in the seats, etc.  It only has 30K miles on it.  It needs to go.

So, don't start dropping money out of your squadron account to have it fixed.  Put in the maintenance request and have the USAF pay for it.  They hardly ever pay for an expense afterwards, unless it was an emergency repair.

What jimmydeano said.  It's not really USAF paying to repair it, it's CAP using our appropriated O & M funds (which are federal grants administered by USAF).  This is the same fund that funds aircraft maintenance.  It turns out that alot of aircraft maintenance money has been saved with the change to consolidated maintenance, so there is now alot more $ available for vehicle maintenance.  So you should definitely try to get planned maintenance approved for NHQ funding (through your CoC & wing maintenance procedures) before committing local funds.  These days they are able to say "yes" much more often than in days of old.

For those who are wondering why not just buy new vehicles instead of repairing old ones, in "Fed-speak" acquisition funds are different from O & M funds and they can't be interchanged.  Every year there is a request for funding for vehicles but the amount approved is never as much as needed for a complete ground fleet overhaul.

[cap235629]

well I guess we are on the opposite end of the problem.  Our vehicle is a 1995 minvan.  It has 186,000 miles on it.  It runs well, has an ice cold AC, burns a little oil (not as bad as one of our "two-stroke" 182's) and is used for a ground team vehicle as well as transport for 14 cadets.  Our squadron has a total of 36 members and have deployed on 6 live missions in the last year.  Of these missions, only 1 was prosecuted strictly on paved roads. 

Our wing just received a new 12 passenger van that was procured as a replacement for, get this, a 4 wheel drive SUV that was stolen and destroyed.  I am at a loss.......

[DC]

well I guess we are on the opposite end of the problem.  Our vehicle is a 1995 minvan.  It has 186,000 miles on it.  It runs well, has an ice cold AC, burns a little oil (not as bad as one of our "two-stroke" 182's) and is used for a ground team vehicle as well as transport for 14 cadets.  Our squadron has a total of 36 members and have deployed on 6 live missions in the last year.  Of these missions, only 1 was prosecuted strictly on paved roads. 

Our wing just received a new 12 passenger van that was procured as a replacement for, get this, a 4 wheel drive SUV that was stolen and destroyed.  I am at a loss.......

You can fit 14 cadets into a minivan? 

What are y'all doin', strapping them to the luggage rack?