Has CAP service ever been a factor in a political campaign?

[Major Carrales]

Joe, I don't care what someone did in their youth. If we can dismiss college drug use by presidential candidates, and we should, then why does something like eagle scout or Spaatz award really matter. It's nice, but it doesn't make them more capable than someone else. It doesn't say anything about their character NOW.

You can take it for what it's worth with the long ago police or non-war mil service. Again, it's nice, but it was a job you had one time back in the day. It may well shape a bit of who you are, but it's who you are, not how you got there, that makes the difference. Actually taking fire, maybe bleeding/killing/losing friends in the defense of your country is a whole different level. That's a sacrifice that remains relevant. It doesn't matter the degree to which it shaped you into what you are, it matters that you made a greater sacrifice than most people will ever do.

You miss the point.  A person is not simply "who they are," or "who they appear to be;" they are the sum total of all their experience.  The measure of a person takes into account all their experience.

A person who was a drug user as a youth might change, it might have been a one time thing or maybe they were on one life and made an epiphany to change.  All that is entered into who they are.

Why is it key to show that Bill Clinton came from a poor home, or Obama from a single parent home or John McCain's service and torture in Vietnam?  Why do we look at the upbrining of Abraham Lincoln or the life of George Washington (who was a second son to Augustine Washington)?  Because it builds character.

CAP Service, be it as a Cadet or CAP Officer is not a shameful thing.  It does not have to be hidden or hidden by omission.  If she is proud of her service as a CAP Cadet, she should place it amoung her accomplishments.

Do not dismiss those elements that made a person who they are, doing that makes what they appear to be artificial and almost manaquin like.   We all exist in our past, present and future at once...that median worth is who we are.  You best be learning that if you are to be a judge of men under your command.

[Cecil DP]

Could you Nebraska types please explain what the Nebraska Wing Executive Officer was if it wasn't the Vice Commander? 

In the AF the executive officer is the commanders assistant and basically an office manager. He is there to make sure that the office is run smoothly. It is not the second in command, as it would be in the other services.

[notaNCO forever]

  What you do as a youth does matter latter on in life. One thing that can be a huge influence is C.A.P.'s core values and moral leadership classes. If a cadet grew up in a home were no one taught them any values were else could they learn them from? You don't think C.A.P.'s core values would make a difference? Perhaps another cadet that was homeschooled and had no were else to practice public speaking. You don't think that could make a difference? When people are young that is the point in life that they start to decide what they think is right and wrong. I'm not saying people can't change what they think latter on in life, but on a whole people don't change.

[DNall]

Look, I agree that being a CAP cadet, and excelling in that program as a kid is meaningful to that person, to making them a better person. However, I could just as easily show you a spaatz cadet or eagle scout that ended up smoking pounds of dope in college, or selling it, or defrauding their company. It'd really be ashame to see that, but it can and does happen. I can't translate those childhood experiences into some kind of guarantee about a person's character. I doesn't mean they are NOW a good person with strong ethics. I mean, look at our past CAP/CC & you can't even cite current service even at high levels as any kind of guarantee.

I'm not in any way ashamed of the cadet program of CAP in any way. I really don't have a problem with refs to CAP being in someone's profile - no more than saying they were once an eagle scout or they'd been a cop 20 years ago, or once served in the military for a couple years in peace time. It's just not important in the what have you done for me lately category, nor is it determinative of who you really are NOW.

Like I said, I don't mind the citation, but there is the potential (as cited previously) of having it turned around on you by the media/opponents. And, my primary concern is that military/constitutional issue that CAP isn't tracking on. DoD recently came out with a guide on how to do this/limits/etc. I think it would be a good idea for CAP to adopt that & make it avail to members.

[Major Carrales]

Dennis, I think you are I are about done on this issue.  I'll let you have the final word.

You seem to see CAP Service, especially as a Cadet, as "baby games."  Yes, I know you rcently became an officer in the Service, however, just because your horizons have been raised don't mean you have to see everything in CAP as "wrong," "broken" or "less than honorable."  I say that as a speculation to which I expect I am not fully in understanding.  However, you are more likely to make a post against something in CAP than praising it or trying to push CAP into something it has never been.

Look, I agree that being a CAP cadet, and excelling in that program as a kid is meaningful to that person, to making them a better person. However, I could just as easily show you a spaatz cadet or eagle scout that ended up smoking pounds of dope in college, or selling it, or defrauding their company. It'd really be ashame to see that, but it can and does happen. I can't translate those childhood experiences into some kind of guarantee about a person's character. I doesn't mean they are NOW a good person with strong ethics. I mean, look at our past CAP/CC & you can't even cite current service even at high levels as any kind of guarantee.

There is no "guarantee" of anything related to this.  Success in the CAP program is not a "fix all," it is a predisposition.  Things you do now do not guarantee you are a good person. She is proud of her service in the CADET PROGRAM, I say let here go with it.  In any case I don't think the image portayed is "Look, I was a CAP CADET and this makes me a MESSIAH, WORSHIP ME!!!"  I think it was more of "Look, I've got a long history of community service from a young age."

Until we are ready to accept that we preform gallantly in CAP, we will never come to realize our worth.  And if we can't realize that, how do we expect anyone else to?

I'm not in any way ashamed of the cadet program of CAP in any way. I really don't have a problem with refs to CAP being in someone's profile - no more than saying they were once an eagle scout or they'd been a cop 20 years ago, or once served in the military for a couple years in peace time. It's just not important in the what have you done for me lately category, nor is it determinative of who you really are NOW.

20 years ago I took violin lessons with my late Grandfather, I've been a musician since then.  20 years ago I made the descision I was going to take school seriously, so much so I would later become a teacher.  20 years ago was 1988!

"What have you done for me lately?"  Strange, I thought we were in the "service before self" category.  Experience is experience, it is the foundation of your knowledge and skills.  If you can't understand that, if none of us can...he might as well shut down the program since, Dennis, you maintain it "doesn't really matter anyway. "  See how that reads.

Like I said, I don't mind the citation, but there is the potential (as cited previously) of having it turned around on you by the media/opponents. And, my primary concern is that military/constitutional issue that CAP isn't tracking on. DoD recently came out with a guide on how to do this/limits/etc. I think it would be a good idea for CAP to adopt that & make it avail to members.

Rubish... while CAP should not be a "political party" and candiates should not appear in uniform, citing CAP on your resume is not a black mark nor is it verboten from mention.

Dennis, I am likely not going to reply to your next repsonse.  I think we are at an end with this.  I do hope you will make it good, well thought out and that it is dropped between us.  Other can carry on or hammer my points, but I can't see the positive in your position on this matter.

[NEBoom]

Could you Nebraska types please explain what the Nebraska Wing Executive Officer was if it wasn't the Vice Commander? 

That was a long time ago, and I was not directly involved, so my knowledge is limited.  Check your PM.

[DNall]

You seem to see CAP Service, especially as a Cadet, as "baby games."  Yes, I know you rcently became an officer in the Service, however, just because your horizons have been raised don't mean you have to see everything in CAP as "wrong," "broken" or "less than honorable."  I say that as a speculation to which I expect I am not fully in understanding.  However, you are more likely to make a post against something in CAP than praising it or trying to push CAP into something it has never been.

That is completely wrong. CAP cadet service is outstanding, but 20 years later it's no different than having been a boy scout or something similar. It's just not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

As for CAP. I'm here & been a member a real long time. That should speak for itself in my regard for this organization and its potential. Just about everything I say on this site is related to areas where CAP is not fully reaching its potential and talking about things we can do to accomplish that, not sitting back on our laurels making excuses. I'm always positive. You want negative disparaging remarks, go to news of the force.

There is no "guarantee" of anything related to this...

Yeah? I can say if someone spent 7yrs in a POW camp getting tortured & stayed back when offered release to keep faith with his comrades... That's a guarantee of character and tenacity under pressure comparable to anything one would face in public office. Getting promoted thru a cadet program or eagle scout or anything of the sort is not such an amazing accomplishment that few people in the world are capable of if they contributed their full life and effort to it. It doesn't involve insane risk to life for service above self. It doesn't take it to the mat as the saying goes. So, it is not in any way a bad thing, but neither is it relevant. If this girl or someone else wants to cite it, whatever, I don't care, but it doesn't mean much if anything in the big picture, and it comes with some issues that I think are dangerous for CAP, the military, and the candidate, and I don't like that.

Until we are ready to accept that we preform gallantly in CAP, we will never come to realize our worth.  And if we can't realize that, how do we expect anyone else to?

Gallantry, really? lots of people face death in day-to-day CAP service do they? A few accidents & few dangerous situations from time to time, but way I remember it they wouldn't let us respond to Katrina for weeks, and then it wasn't rescuing people from immanent death. Honorable, certainly, but gallant, that's a stretch.

I'm not in any way ashamed of the cadet program of CAP in any way. I really don't have a problem with refs to CAP being in someone's profile - no more than saying they were once an eagle scout or they'd been a cop 20 years ago, or once served in the military for a couple years in peace time. It's just not important in the what have you done for me lately category, nor is it determinative of who you really are NOW.

20 years ago I took violin lessons with my late Grandfather, I've been a musician since then.  20 years ago I made the descision I was going to take school seriously, so much so I would later become a teacher.  20 years ago was 1988!

"What have you done for me lately?"  Strange, I thought we were in the "service before self" category.  Experience is experience, it is the foundation of your knowledge and skills.  If you can't understand that, if none of us can...he might as well shut down the program since, Dennis, you maintain it "doesn't really matter anyway. "  See how that reads.

So being a musician NOW is meaningful to who you are, not how you became a musician, your motivations, etc. That's a feel good feature. Same deal with school. It matters that you got a degree and became a teacher, not that you did well in school as a kid. It's the results, not the path to reaching them, that bears more on your current qualifications.

Like I said, I don't mind the citation, but there is the potential (as cited previously) of having it turned around on you by the media/opponents. And, my primary concern is that military/constitutional issue that CAP isn't tracking on. DoD recently came out with a guide on how to do this/limits/etc. I think it would be a good idea for CAP to adopt that & make it avail to members.

Rubish... while CAP should not be a "political party" and candiates should not appear in uniform, citing CAP on your resume is not a black mark nor is it verboten from mention.

I do believe I said I cite CAP in my resume!!! I do believe I said several times it's okay for a candidate to cite. I said it is NOT okay for people to take it too far. We have an issue in the military of being very understated about our military service so as not to give the impression of military support. If the public became aware that 90% of the military supported one candidate or one position or the other, that would be catastrophic for the country. Most CAP members don't understand where the limits are in that respect, and it's concerning if they want to start putting CAP out there in politics.

[Flying Pig]

Could someone please highlight where anyone said CAP Cadet service was "shamefull"?

[Johnny Yuma]

Bottom Line:

A CAP cadet has been given a lifelong set of values. What you do with them is up to you. Some CAP cadets are never going to even get their Mitchell and go far. Others will get their Spaatz and do life in a Texas penitentiary.

About our subject at hand: IMHO Some folks are going to see a picture from her past in a uniform and hear her talk about service and military/veteran issues. Many folks not knowing any better are going to assume she's a veteran because of Darcy's lack of specifics. I suspect that's part of her campaign strategy, incredibly underhanded and misleading.

Never mind that for now. I'm from KS, she's running in WA. However, looking at some of the folks endorsing her is scary: Nancy Pelosi's done a video spot for her and even Michael Moore (from Roger and Me, Bowling for Columbine and other "documentaries") endorses her in his guide to the 2008 elections, which can be found at your local Barnes and Noble. Based on that and what I gleaned from her Website ("Darcy" Magazine??? You gotta be kidding me!) I couldn't vote for her.