Good Bye & Good Luck

[catrulz]

I was in an SDF until recently, that thought morale suffered because the TAG wouldn't allow us to wear ACU's.  When I walked around during AT, I didn't see any evidence of this poor morale.  I saw motivated soldiers in obsolete but sharply worn uniforms, that acted professionally.  And the politics were minimal, communication was good.  But the entire force was like minded, there wasn't differing opinions on the mission or levels of participation.  There was pride from performing well and to a standard.  I can't swallow that uniforms (or lack of a proper uniform) are causing the current issues in this organization.  Yes it could be different, maybe better, but it works now (and yes I wear the corporate uniform not the Air Force).

When you join the military or the NG/reserves or a SDF, you know you are joining a military organization.  Everyone practices customs and courtesies, everyone uses proper forms of address, everyone wears the same uniform the same way.  The regulations are adhered too, and there is discipline.  But the mind set is incorporated into the overall structure and culture of the organization.  You are not regular Army, you are not National Guard, but you try and perform to the Army standard.

CAP's identity crisis stems from having SM's that are looking at the program from 360 different directions.  If I a SM that's in supporting my cadet son/daughter, I get assigned personnel, I'm not properly supervised, I don't bother to read the regulations.  What is going to happen, do you suppose?  Or I'm a pilot with 1000 hours on Cessna 172's, brand new in CAP though, obviously I can just climb into a CAP aircraft and start flying SAR right?

[Eclipse]

CAP's identity crisis stems from having SM's that are looking at the program from 360 different directions.  If I a SM that's in supporting my cadet son/daughter, I get assigned personnel, I'm not properly supervised, I don't bother to read the regulations.  What is going to happen, do you suppose?  Or I'm a pilot with 1000 hours on Cessna 172's, brand new in CAP though, obviously I can just climb into a CAP aircraft and start flying SAR right?

This.

Stars and eagles should be reading and heeding the above.

[ironputts]

Cyborg, I also wish you all the luck. I have a feeling you will return as many like you that have invested so much in this organization. I am 23 years with several breaks in between. I stay because of the cadets and the opportunity to work with young people. My wife says I go to CAP to experience something outside of work and family. I think she is right. It is hard at times to be in CAP but there are times I wouldnt want to be anywhere else. Keep the faith all wherever you choose to go and do. Volunteering is essential for our nation!

[Майор Хаткевич]

One thing that hits hard, maybe even harder than I expected, is "my way or no way", " us vs. Them", behind the back talk, fake respect on display, hell even "office" politics. We're all on the same team, but perhaps in spirit only. Units vs units, groups vs groups, wings vs wings. Members vs member. That WILL wear you down.

[AirAux]

Part of the problem is that we are not Military and never will be.  We once were a little brother of the Air Force.  We went to summer encampment on Air Force Bases.  We got military orientation flights.  We got to ride to Wright-Patterson on Air Force Aircraft.  We thought we belonged.  The Air Force has very little use for us anymore and it shows.  We need to get out of the military uniform and become the corporate structure they want us to be.  The Boy Scouts don't wear military uniforms, but they accomplish their mission.  I think we all need to be in one uniform no matter what it is and stand up for the identity of Civil Air Patrol and the heritage we come from.  It may be time for the military want-a-bees to depart to the SDF or something.  We are floundering and no one seems to care.   

[Eclipse]

One thing that hits hard, maybe even harder than I expected, is "my way or no way", " us vs. Them", behind the back talk, fake respect on display, hell even "office" politics. We're all on the same team, but perhaps in spirit only. Units vs units, groups vs groups, wings vs wings. Members vs member. That WILL wear you down.

This is what happens when people are allowed to self-initiate and self-actualize with a limited pool of resources and time and no
one coming into the room and telling people to "knock it off". or for that matter even being all that interested in what people
are doing, until it's so far gone it's too late to intervene.

[Eclipse]

In the context of a "mission" conversation, you can't compare CAP to the BSA, or for that matter to anything else.

CAP is unique in its charter and structure.

[catrulz]

Part of the problem is that we are not Military and never will be.  We once were a little brother of the Air Force.  We went to summer encampment on Air Force Bases.  We got military orientation flights.  We got to ride to Wright-Patterson on Air Force Aircraft.  We thought we belonged.  The Air Force has very little use for us anymore and it shows.  We need to get out of the military uniform and become the corporate structure they want us to be.  The Boy Scouts don't wear military uniforms, but they accomplish their mission.  I think we all need to be in one uniform no matter what it is and stand up for the identity of Civil Air Patrol and the heritage we come from.  It may be time for the military want-a-bees to depart to the SDF or something.  We are floundering and no one seems to care.

AirAux, I agree.  But what we do need it to be on the same page.  When one unit thinks they are about one thing and another thinks they are something else, it makes conversations between those groups difficult to say the least.  I don't think CAP should be military.  I do believe it should define itself, create a standard based on that definition, and then enforce that standard and image.

[SamFranklin]

I suggest that this thread isn't productive. Too many generalizations about conditions in particular units; local problems don't necessarily produce systemic problems. Some generalizations are mutually exclusive: my way or highway is said to be wrong but our lack of military style organization is also a supposed weakness (though it'd produce more unilateral decisions).  And those who say the "Air Force" dislikes us haven't been paying attention. They invited us to Corona for goodness sake. contrary to one person's claims, cadets do go to encampment on AFBs (depending on the wing) and get military oflights (in some locations). 

As a 30+ year person I say the good old days weren't as good as some imagine. CAP is better than ever all around.

YMMV

[AirAux]

And there in lies the rub.  As a 30+ year person, I say CAP pretty much sucks.  JMHO.

[FW]

In about two weeks, another member will take the office of National Commander and CEO of CAP.  He will be responsible for leading us for the next three years.  Will things change? Of course.  How? I have no idea, however I will do what I can to see we don't fail.  Then again, no one asked...

[Eclipse]

I suggest that this thread isn't productive. Too many generalizations about conditions in particular units; local problems don't necessarily produce systemic problems.

And I'd suggest that until CAP starts accepting and acknowledging these issues, these systemic problems will persist and get worse.

The things we're discussing in this thread are far from "local issues".

[Eclipse]

In about two weeks, another member will take the office of National Commander and CEO of CAP.  He will be responsible for leading us for the next three years.  Will things change? Of course.  How? I have no idea, however I will do what I can to see we don't fail.  Then again, no one asked...

And that's the real problem, isn't it?  No one asking, and the new governance means no need to make any promises or commitments publicly.

I know there are a couple of unattributable, double-secret, back channel initiatives which were at one point being touted as nearly "done"
and now have gone silent.  These would potentially bring some much-needed shakeup to the glass.  If those are announced in the new
CC's first speech, you'll have my attention.

Even a "day-1, week-1, month-1, year-1" strategic plan or at least high-level S.M.A.R.T. goals would be refreshing, but if it's just
"carrying on the legacy of honor and success, etc., etc., well, there you go...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Part of the problem is that we are not Military and never will be.  We once were a little brother of the Air Force.  We went to summer encampment on Air Force Bases.  We got military orientation flights.  We got to ride to Wright-Patterson on Air Force Aircraft.  We thought we belonged.  The Air Force has very little use for us anymore and it shows. 

I have been very disconcerted (bordering on bitterness) at this unfortunate truth.  Yes, I know that those in the AF controlling the purse strings do right by us in terms of funding, and it may well be that the brass at AU/AETC/1AF praise what we do.  However, very, very little of that trickles down to the average CAP member, in my experience.  When I first joined CAP in 1993 I remember getting generally warm welcomes, "thanks for what you do," etc. from the Air Force.  That meant a lot to me.  However, as time went on, I noticed less of a warm welcome and would overhear comments about "those CAPpies think they're in the Air Force, etc."

We need to get out of the military uniform and become the corporate structure they want us to be.  The Boy Scouts don't wear military uniforms, but they accomplish their mission.  I think we all need to be in one uniform no matter what it is and stand up for the identity of Civil Air Patrol and the heritage we come from.  It may be time for the military want-a-bees to depart to the SDF or something.  We are floundering and no one seems to care.

Respectful disagreement.  Our heritage is military, going all the way back to the USAAF.  The first Air Medal was awarded to a CAP member (I think), and now we are not even eligible for the bloody thing, nor are we eligible for Air Force civilian awards...not even the civilian version of the Air Medal!

We have lost a good chunk of our military heritage through our own machinations, largely throughout the late '90s and early '00s.  CAP was restructured into a far more corporate model by our own choosing, by people who wanted to have their cake and eat it too.  Meaning: they wanted Air Force funding, but they didn't want the AF "interfering" in their "corporate" operations.  I think that had a huge deal to do with our current distance from the AF.

Now, I am not saying we are a military service.  We are not.  However, unless/until/whenever/if the Air Force decides we are no longer needed, we are still the Air Force Auxiliary (to the smouldering pits of Gre'thor with the AUX ON/OFF bullcrackie) and I am not going to act otherwise.

Eclipse has rightly said that there are questions - hard questions - that need to be asked.  One would be a straight-out enquiry to the Air Force:

"Do you need us?  Yes or No!"

Unfortunately, no-one seems to be willing to ask the question to clarify our status vis-a-vis the Air Force.  If the Air Force says "yes," then they should start employing us more.  If "no," without AF funding CAP will die anyway, and I can accept that.  Nothing temporal lasts forever.  The RAF disbanded their long-serving Royal Observer Corps after the end of the Cold War.

If we go "completely corporate," and our public funding dries up, we will not last long.

Unfortunately, not everyone has the option of joining an SDF.  SDF's vary widely on who they will accept.  There is one in my state, but I have medical conditions that preclude me from joining their ranks.

[Eclipse]

We went to summer encampment on Air Force Bases.  We got military orientation flights. 

Um...CAP still does those things all the time.

The lack of military resources has little to do with whether the USAF still needs CAP.   You can blame 20 years of BRAC for that.
In the 90's my state had at least 4 good-sized USAF bases, several major Naval facilities, and a fair number of Guard bases.

Now it has one USAF base, well away from the major population centers of the state, and one major naval facility, and one major
guard base (and all are generous to CAP).  Beyond that, it's a handful of small guard bases and a few administrative reserve centers.

That's pretty much the case in most wings.  The stone has no blood left to give, but that doesn't mean it isn't doing what it can.

[LTC Don]

Everyone is in their own little self pitying bubble. And working with precious little information to justify opinions.

We have multiple major military installations in our state.  We have active squadrons meeting on three of them, once of which is a Marine air station.  Our annual Region Cadet Leadership School has been held over at least the last three years at the only major Air Force base, Seymour Johnson (of which one of those three local units is based).  At least until recently due to a PCS, the Seymour Johnson base commander's son was a member in that local unit (who recently completed POD training during a Disaster Relief Workshop the wing held.....on base).

So, in some areas the relationship with the military is pretty good, in others, maybe not so much OR there isn't much military to have a relationship with.

Be careful how wide a swath you cast with the paintbrush.

[JeffDG]

There's simply no way for an organization as large and distributed as
CAP to be successful without standardization, clear communication, and enforcement of those standards.

I can't adequately express how much I disagree profoundly with this statement.

Many organizations much larger than CAP are successful because they encourage initiative and ingenuity, not because they standardize everything.  Large organizations need to put people in place to manage their part of the organization, and trust them to actually do so.  If you are putting people in charge of components of the organization that you don't trust to exercise judgement, and you must constrain them with excessive standards, then you're putting the wrong people in place.

Large organizations that attempt to standardize everything fail as a result of micro-management.  They strangle as a result of people not being able to actually do the things they need to do to accomplish their mission.

[arajca]

There's simply no way for an organization as large and distributed as
CAP to be successful without standardization, clear communication, and enforcement of those standards.

I can't adequately express how much I disagree profoundly with this statement.

Many organizations much larger than CAP are successful because they encourage initiative and ingenuity, not because they standardize everything.  Large organizations need to put people in place to manage their part of the organization, and trust them to actually do so.  If you are putting people in charge of components of the organization that you don't trust to exercise judgement, and you must constrain them with excessive standards, then you're putting the wrong people in place.

Large organizations that attempt to standardize everything fail as a result of micro-management.  They strangle as a result of people not being able to actually do the things they need to do to accomplish their mission.

Significant difference: Those organizations most likely have a clearly defined mission, set goals to accomplish the mission, and clear expectations for their local units. In general, CAP lacks all three of those. Once you have a clearly defined mission and goals, you can let the local units take the initiative and use their judgement to accomplish the mission.

[LTC Don]

There's nothing wrong with standardization as long as micro-managing doesn't become the defacto standard.

My brother (retired USAF firefighter) once showed me some pictures of an un-identified tragedy showing what was once an Airman shredded in about three pieces.

The former Airman tackled a repair job on a fighter that involved a component under a very high amount of pressure.  The Airman loosened the wrong components in the wrong order and thus ended his life rather abruptly.

He failed to follow standardized procedure and took shortcuts. Standardized procedures are in place for a wide variety of reasons, many of them safety based.

I also, just today, read an email from a now current member, but who resigned several years ago, in part because while at a meeting, the Group Commander decreed that all cadet activities must come across his desk and be approved before the activity could be executed.  This ruling basically instituted a rather draconian system that only served to demoralize the subordinate units. The member decided if things were going to be micromanaged that badly, then CAP was no place for him. This member has now returned and is quite active.  Of course, the Group Commander is no longer in command and other events have transpired over the years so the environment is more positive.

Micromanagement is always an issue, but is also a sign that there isn't enough training happening to make sure 'standardization' is being properly fielded to the masses. When training is well attended and instruction is high-speed, confidence (and morale) levels increase all around and life is (generally) good.

[JeffDG]

There's simply no way for an organization as large and distributed as
CAP to be successful without standardization, clear communication, and enforcement of those standards.

I can't adequately express how much I disagree profoundly with this statement.

Many organizations much larger than CAP are successful because they encourage initiative and ingenuity, not because they standardize everything.  Large organizations need to put people in place to manage their part of the organization, and trust them to actually do so.  If you are putting people in charge of components of the organization that you don't trust to exercise judgement, and you must constrain them with excessive standards, then you're putting the wrong people in place.

Large organizations that attempt to standardize everything fail as a result of micro-management.  They strangle as a result of people not being able to actually do the things they need to do to accomplish their mission.

Significant difference: Those organizations most likely have a clearly defined mission, set goals to accomplish the mission, and clear expectations for their local units. In general, CAP lacks all three of those. Once you have a clearly defined mission and goals, you can let the local units take the initiative and use their judgement to accomplish the mission.

The fact that CAP is using "standardization" as a crutch for not having clearly defined missions and objectives doesn't mean that the only way a large organization can function is with standardization.