Poll-Chaplains in CAP

[Major Lord]

Sparky,

Remember though that the Puritans ( they were not called that until about 1580) did not come to America to establish religious freedom, rather, to be free to practice their own unique hybrid of Calvinism. They were not so hot on religious toleration, and banned all other religions. In fact, a Puritan could be put to death if he missed three Sabbath services. Witches and Catholics were especially unwelcome.

Major Lord

[EMT-83]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses on the subject of separation of church and state. It's a phrase that always seems to make my blood boil when I hear it mentioned. People have taken the simple concept of the prohibition of a state religion to such extremes that local high schools are no longer allowed to rent church auditoriums for graduation ceremonies, due to threatened lawsuits over the violation separation of church and state. Educated folks, who really should know better, love to spout off on the subject.

On the original topic, I think that Chaplains are important to CAP. The few that I have met do not push their religious views onto the members. We are fortunate to have a Chaplain in our squadron who is a highly experienced youth minister. He conducts Character Development classes that are thought-provoking non-religious lessons that cadets and senior members both enjoy. He assists with case studies for CPPT, where members actively participate in lively discussions. As others mentioned, he also serves as a resource for members in need of counseling, who have no one else to turn to.

[Major Carrales]

Sparky,

Remember though that the Puritans ( they were not called that until about 1580) did not come to America to establish religious freedom, rather, to be free to practice their own unique hybrid of Calvinism. They were not so hot on religious toleration, and banned all other religions. In fact, a Puritan could be put to death if he missed three Sabbath services. Witches and Catholics were especially unwelcome.

Major Lord

Yes, the Puritians were an prime example for there not being an established Religion.  Massachusetts Bay, Salem Village especially, was not an experiment in tolerance.  Their established church in that colony is exactally why we need the 1st Amendment.  More evidence as to why the Founders put these limitations on Government.

Pennsylvania and Maryland are much better example of tolerance for their times.

Many people on these threads seem to want to be taking a side.  RELIGION vs ATHIEST agenda...I find that to be nonsense.  As a Constitutionalist I think both are right to hold their beliefs.  The First Amendment, however, is not a tool to limit religious worship nor to silence opinions against it.  There has been so much "spin" on the matter that I am affraid we, as a society, have made metaphorical "butter" out of it.

Again, to put it in simple terms...

Pray if you want to which ever God, or gods you want...or not.  Do not deny the Faithful to do so, and do not deny the non-believer the right to believe that.  The one belief need not make an enemy of the other.

[Short Field]

I could care less about Chaplains providing religious services to members.  HOWEVER, I really need a Chaplain to be there to help tend to the family of people we are searching for during an ES mission.  I also find them invaluable in taking care of the morale and welfare of members conducting the mission. 

[Chappie]

Taken from material presented at Unit Commanders' Courses taught WIWAWHC (When I was a Wing Chaplain):

Legally and morally, the unit commander has responsibility for the religious program within the CAP unit. This responsibility is grounded in the First Amendment of the US Constitution and elaborated in US law establishing the federal chaplain service. The chaplain functions as the commander's staff officer and expert in. religious and moral areas.

The chaplain always works for the commander.  At all levels of CAP, the Chaplain is assigned by the Commander.  The Wing Chaplain does not assign Chaplains or CDIs to the squadron.  As with all staff members, Chaplains and CDIs serve at the will of the Commander.

Chaplains assist commanders by providing advice and assistance on matters having to do with morals, morale, and religion.  Planning events may need to include religious observances or dietary regulations.  Chaplains may be consulted by the Commander when incidents occur that may need counseling or confrontation by the Commander.  Chaplains might see things happening in the squadron that others might not be picking up on.

Areas in which a Chaplain can assist the Commander:

     -- Advising the Commander

Chaplains have years of experience working with the unique challenges and problems that a volunteer organization produces.
And in most cases, the chaplain has not only survived but prospered in that environment.

"The Chaplain can be an insightful resource for the commander in the issues that effect many aspects of CAP life.  The recruiting, training, and motivating of volunteers is the lifeblood of pastoral and non-pastoral ministry as it is true for CAP.  The commander who has the aid of a chaplain has access to a wealth of experience and training needed to make a volunteer organization run smoothly." 

Ch (LtC) James Hughes –  Secretary, Chaplain Service Advisory Council (2001-2004) 
(CAP News, May 2002 "Commanders Carry Burden, But Chaplains  Can Help")

The chaplain brings an understanding of the dynamics of a volunteer organization:
-- motivating volunteers
-- keeping the mission out in front
-- need of tradition, ritual, ceremony
-- leadership development

  -- Confidant to the Commander

     Chaplains know how to keep confidences.  Can empathize with the commander in dealing with the burden and responsibility
     of leading because of the experience of leading a congregation.

  -- Conflict Management

     Chaplains can assist the Commander by dealing with/defusing individuals or situations in the squadron that could be disruptive to the life and well being of the squadron.

  -- Communication consultant

"Through spoken word, members are trained, motivated, corrected and integrated into the program.  The chaplain can be helpful to the commander concerning how to say things that help, include, and inspire.  Through written word, the activities of CAP are promoted, recorded, and described.  The chaplain's background is focused on articulating in a persuasive way ." 

Ch (LtC) James Hughes –  Secretary, Chaplain Service Advisory Council (2001-2004) 
(CAP News, May 2002 "Commanders Carry Burden, But Chaplains  Can Help")

Chaplain Hughes took off the cross for a couple years to serve as the GAWG CC.

[Chappie]

I could care less about Chaplains providing religious services to members.  HOWEVER, I really need a Chaplain to be there to help tend to the family of people we are searching for during an ES mission.  I also find them invaluable in taking care of the morale and welfare of members conducting the mission.

While we are useful in ES missions....we are useful in the life of an unit as well.  In my years of service as a CAP Chaplain, I have made countless number of hospital calls to members (and their families) who were being treated for emergencies or surgeries...have conducted the funerals and weddings for members....consoled cadet and senior members who suffered the loss of a family or squadron member.... counseled with members who were going through school/work/family issues ... advised commanders or activity directors regarding religious observances of certain faith groups (can talk off-line about a couple of events where the main course on a meal was pork....and some of the members were not able to partake --- sometimes an event needs to be postponed because it is being conducted over a religious observance).   I've listened to and advised/encouraged commanders whose squadrons were going through some rough times.   Ever sit down and hear the hurt in a pilot's voice when he/she is told they can't fly anymore because of health issues -- especially when that is all they have known in CAP?  Chaplains do a lot more than just offer an opening prayer at a CAP meeting 

[PA Guy]

As an encampment commander I have found chaplains to be invaluable in couseling overwrought cadets and seniors.  They have also been valuable in talking to cadets in a non-staff manner and getting a good feel for what is going on with the basics. A good chaplain can be worth their wt. in gold at encampment.

[Chappie]

As an encampment commander I have found chaplains to be invaluable in couseling overwrought cadets and seniors.  They have also been valuable in talking to cadets in a non-staff manner and getting a good feel for what is going on with the basics. A good chaplain can be worth their wt. in gold at encampment.

Thanks for that input.  Sorry to overlook that aspect of the CAP Chaplaincy -- having been to 11 encampments    When we are fortunate to have more than one chaplain on site, the group is affectionately called "The God Squad" by cadets and staff alike.

[RADIOMAN015]

I voted indifferent on this.  Basically I respect them as members & as ministers/priests, etc., BUT I don't think our missions/objectives would fail if we didn't have them on our squadron staff.  Perhaps they could be utilized very effectively under the ES CISM program.

Also for the record I do attend church just about every week, and try to practice my religion outside my church via respect for all and when possible "quiet" good deeds.
RM   

[Chappie]

BUT I don't think our missions/objectives would fail if we didn't have them on our squadron staff.

Without the people in our organization, the mission/objectives could not be completed.  IMHO, the chaplains are there to assist the Commander in taking care of the people so the mission can be completed. While a person can be trained to do a particular task --- their performance could be hampered by something that is bothering them.  A chaplain can be a useful resource to make sure that person is prepared emotionally to take on the task.  We speak of attention to detail....distractions can lead to disaster.  If there is someone who is dealing with some crisis (and I am not speaking of the type of crisis that CISM addresses) at home, work, or school, a chaplain is there to provide counsel, advise, and even a word of wisdom to the person or the commander, like..."Do you think it would be best for you to sit this mission/task out at this time?"  I know that I have worked with people in the past who had a very full plate....and CAP has a way of loading more on....that I knew could not handle one more "helping".  They were feeling "guilty" because they didn't want to let anyone down, etc.  if they didn't move full steam ahead.  They instinctively knew they weren't able to take it on...but it was helpful to have an outside source affirm it.   They did not need CISM for that...but a voice of a "friend"...their chaplain.

[Parsifal]

Even though I'm an atheist, I have a favorable view towards chaplains in the military and CAP (one of my drinking buddies in the Army was the post chaplain!). They perform a valuable role, as others have stated in this and the thread about prayers at meetings. Of course, proselytizing (religious or political) has no place in CAP.

[High Speed Low Drag]

Agreed that Chaplain Program is good and that Constitution is about freedom of religion / not freedom from religion!  Good post Maj. Carrales.

[Major Carrales]

Agreed!  Good post Maj. Carrales.

Thank you, my friend, but I am done here too.  People seem to want to fan the fires of this fruitless debate.  The poll numbers here will do nothing to post the prevailing attitudes and will, thus only feed the intolerance of both sides.

I will not publically reply to this thread.

[Pumbaa]

Agreed Sparky I'm done too.

How the so called moderators let this one keep on is unknown to me.  they lock threads for less... Nice agenda boys.

[raivo]

The other thread was going tolerably well until the last page or so.

Well, c'est la vie.

[DogCollar]

OK.  I am getting more than a little irritated by this.  What other well-established position in CAP would you dare to start a poll concerning whether or not that position is really needed?

Well, why doesn't someone start a poll about mission pilots?  Couldn't CAP train the local flying club to fly grids?

What about Inspector General?  Couldn't/shouldn't CAP have an outside law firm on retainer to handle legal issues?

Heck, what about Group, Wing and Region Commanders?  They just push paper along anyway.

Now, I am not seriously thinking that any of the above positions are unimportant.  I would not want to see any of them eliminated.  But somehow, it seems like it is okay to whip up on the Chaplain Corps?  Frankly, I am offended by the poll.

[RiverAux]

OK.  I am getting more than a little irritated by this.  What other well-established position in CAP would you dare to start a poll concerning whether or not that position is really needed?

Based on prior threads there is some support for the idea of eliminating Adminstrative Officers, at least at the squadron level, as being no longer necessary. 

[DogCollar]

OK.  I am getting more than a little irritated by this.  What other well-established position in CAP would you dare to start a poll concerning whether or not that position is really needed?

Based on prior threads there is some support for the idea of eliminating Administrative Officers, at least at the squadron level, as being no longer necessary.

Hmmmm...I doubt seriously that there has been a whole lot of Administrative Officers referred to as "bigots," by anyone in a thread, nor do I think anyone has wondered about AO's existence being an offense to the Constitution!

Someone will accuse me of over reacting.  Someone else will point to my position as evidence that the Chaplain Corps should be disbanded.  Why?  Why must everything even remotely related to Chaplaincy on this board become an exercise to besmirch the the reputations of ALL Chaplains?  It happens over and over again, and I, for one, am tired of it.

[raivo]

Not all chaplains are Southern Baptist preachers intent on recruiting impressionable young cadets; likewise, not everyone who questions the necessity of the chaplain program is a religion-hating Satan worshipper.

I'm all for discussion as long as it centers around polite discussion of the facts, and not trading of wild generalizations (from either side.)

I would like to think that, what with the majority of us being adults, we would be capable of holding a civil discussion while remaining respectful of each other's personal beliefs, as well as not taking disagreement to be a personal attack, but perhaps I'm being naive.

[Eclipse]

Not all chaplains are Southern Baptist preachers intent on recruiting impressionable young cadets; likewise, not everyone who questions the necessity of the chaplain program is a religion-hating Satan worshipper.

Yep.

Either chaplains are a mission-critical resource that serve as an asset, or they are a distracting throw-back to a different time in CAP's history when we were better staffed and had more time to spend on non-core issues.

The discussion, however, should not be seen as some sort of threat in and of itself, and if people make insensitive or insulting comments they certainly aren't speaking for CAP, Inc., nor even this "board" as a whole - address them directly.  A few people who
feel strongly enough about something to burn the calories necessary to type do not a movement make.