It's finally here!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Wait...we're supposed to have a US Flag on our uniforms?

It's the only way to tell this CAP apart from the Canadian Air Pirates.

[pierson777]

Greetings All, I haven't posted in this forum for almost four years, but I just wanted to chime in on this topic.  I'll share some of my input in later posts, but I just wanted to share my experience in submitting my input.

I shared my thoughts with the board and received an email from the committee chairman thanking me for my input, and he told me that they received over 1050 comments.  I'm grateful that they have put together this new draft and I'm eager to see it's issue.  There are obviously some corrections needed for typos, grammar, disagreements, etc.  After thorough review, my opinion of this draft is that it is very well put together, it matches the AFI 36-2903 superbly, and after some edits and new graphics/photos, this will be a wonderfully written manual for our members and especially for the commanders that are responsible for enforcing it.

In the past, I've submitted input for various draft publications, and I never received responses from my IN TURN Memos or letters.  I suspect my input never reached the intended audience.  I can appreciate the need for the chain of command, but in this volunteer organization, there is a definite black hole when it comes to administration.  I'm pleased that the board invited direct input, but I don't know how they will sort through over 1050 individual comments.

Oh, by the way, my individual comment was a 27 page report.

[pierson777]

Many of the uniforms have several different names.  It is important to establish the correct name for each uniform and be consistent throughout the manual.  The following are the correct names (according to this draft) followed by examples of other variations used to describe the same uniform:

    1.   Corporate Field Uniform, not Corporate Style Field Uniform, CAP Field Uniform, CAP Blue Field Uniform, Blue Field Uniform. (IMHO this should be called "Corporate Battle Dress Uniform (CBDU)" since it is equivalent to USAF style Battle Dress Uniform (BDU), and this would be more in line with other similar naming, ie. CFDU, Corporate Service Dress, etc.)

    2.   Corporate Flight Duty Uniform (CFDU), not Flight Suit, CAP Flight Duty Uniform, Corporate Style Flight Duty Uniform.

    3.   Corporate Working Uniform, not Knit Polo Shirt Combination, CAP Corporate Working Uniform. (IMHO this is the wrong name for this uniform.  The term "Working Uniform" conjures the idea of something like laboring outdoors.  I would rather see a name like Corporate Casual Uniform or Corporate Informal Uniform, like USAF.)

    4.   Corporate Aviator Shirt Uniform, not Aviator Shirt Uniform, Corporate Service Uniform, Aviator Shirt Combination (IMHO this should be called "Corporate Service Uniform" since it is equivalent to USAF Service Uniform.)

Putting "CAP" in the name of any corporate uniform is a bit superfluous.  Just refer to all of the non-USAF uniforms as "Corporate _________", i.e. Corporate Flight Duty Uniform, Corporate Field Uniform, etc.

[pierson777]

I recommend that the senior member NCO's should wear the USAF enlisted-style "US" letters with circles on the lapels of the service dress uniforms.  Especially considering that the new NCO chevron rank patches will have CAP lettering on them.  This will only be okay once the new rank patches are available, otherwise there would be no way to differentiate USAF NCOs from CAP NCOs.

This will more accurately reflect the current USAF uniform for enlisted personnel, and be more standardized with the CAP senior member officer uniforms which have the "US" insignia (aka cutouts) on the lapels of the service dress uniforms. 

With this method, only cadets would wear CAP cutout insignia on the lapels of the service dress uniforms.

[Grumpy]

You could always go back to the old "CAPC" for the cadets cut outs.

[pierson777]

Why is CAP still using bullion badges on the Mess Dress Uniform?  I realize that they're optional, but the USAF phased out their bullion badges over thirty years ago.  I keep expecting CAP to follow suit, but CAP keeps adding more bullion badges (i.e. ground teams badges, service badges etc.). 

All badges worn must match in material.  Unfortunately, not all badges are available in bullion.  I have never been to a formal event where I did not see someone get this this wrong. 

I think CAP should phase out bullion badges on the Mess Dress Uniform in order to prevent these uniform violations, to match the USAF standard, and as a cost saving measure for members and our Vanguard vendor (except for the fact that there is probably a bit of inventory in stock already).  Perhaps a three year phase-out date would be a good solution.

[pierson777]

I believe we should phase out the old-style service coat.  The USAF introduced the current service coat over 20 years ago.

There's no shortage of the current coat, especially considering that cadets may wear either the officer version (with epaulets) or the enlisted version (without epaulets).  I have NEVER seen a cadet wear the old style service with matching trousers (color shade and material).  The old trousers are a bit harder to find nowadays too. 

There are difference in the wear of the semi-formal dress old-style vs. new-style,  i.e. bow tie vs regular , blue herringbone tie.  This is a bit more complicated for members to identify and for commanders to have to remember for enforcement.

Probably most importantly, eliminating these old-style coats would remove a lot of text from the manual and make it easier for cadets to remember all of the nuances of wearing these uniforms.

[pierson777]

Figure A5-8 depicts the rank insignia on the BDU Cap, but it is a copy of the ABU cap illustration from AFI 36-2903.  It  does not properly depict the embroidered rank insignia (cloth patch).  Furthermore, this figure shows the insignia centered on the cap instead of 1/2" above the visor.  Some folks, especially newbies, don't really understand that the 1/2" measurement is supposed to measured from the edge of the rank, not the edge of the cloth patch.

IMHO, I think that the rank insignia and chaplain badge worn on the BDU cap and field uniform cap should be worn centered, like the USAF has worn theirs for decades (if not longer).  It is difficult to sew them 1/2" above the visor and it looks too low compared to how our USAF parent organization wears theirs on their ABU caps (and formerly on their BDU caps).  I don't know about anyone else, but the thread on the back side of the grade insignia patch on my BDU caps rub my forehead and irritate my skin.

Furthermore, I think cadets should have the option to wear metal or cloth rank insignia on the BDU cap and field uniform cap, and they should have the option to wear metal or cloth insignia on the collars of the BDU and field uniform.

Lastly, I think chaplains should be allowed to wear metal or cloth insignia on the BDU cap and field uniform cap.

[pierson777]

Why require a member to wait 30 days to weigh-in again?  If the member loses the weight sooner than 30 days, they should be allowed to weigh in as soon as possible to get back into the uniform.  30 days seems an arbitrary number.  Someone could be seven or eight pounds over, and lose the weight without risk to health.

[pierson777]

There seems to be too little information regarding how Senior Members without grade wear the different uniforms.  I find this subject to be incomplete, confusing, and not consistent enough to make sense.  Correct me if I get this wrong, and please cite your support, which means don't just tell me how you interpret it or what you think the intent was, rather tell me what you the manual clearly states and where to find it. 

Senior Members Without Grade that are pursing officer promotion wear
Service Dress Uniform - blank epaulet sleeve and US insignia on lapel
Blue Service Uniform - no guidance is given
BDU - embroidered CAP cutouts on ultramarine blue cloth worn on collars
Corporate Field Uniform - no insignia at all on collar
Corporate Aviator Shirt Uniform - no insignia at all on collar, no guidance is given for epaulets
Outergarments - no guidance is given

Senior Members Without Grade that are pursing NCO promotion wear
Service Dress Uniform - CAP cutout insignia on lapel, no epaulet
Blue Service Uniform - no guidance is given
BDU - embroidered CAP cutouts on ultramarine blue cloth worn on collars
Corporate Field Uniform - no insignia at all on collar
Corporate Aviator Shirt Uniform - no insignia at all on collar, no guidance is given for epaulets
Outergarments - no guidance is given

Wouldn't it much simpler to just have Senior Members without grade that are pursuing officer promotion wear the blank epaulet on every shirt and coat with epaulet flaps (i.e. Blue Service Uniform, Corporate Aviator Shirt Uniform, All Weather Coat, etc.).  They would never have to own a pair of CAP cutouts.  Also, wouldn't it be easier to interpret the manual and enforce if the method of wear were alike among similar uniforms (i.e. BDU and Corporate Field Uniform).  It should be worn the same on both.

Senior Members without grade that are pursuing a NCO promotion wear embroidered CAP insignia on the collar of the BDU.  Their NCO promotion will happen as soon as they finish Level 1.  So why are we making them sew patches on the collar that will come off shortly afterwards.  How about changing this to no insignia at all.  The uniform is distinguishable enough that the member would not be confused with an active duty Airman Basic nor with a CAP C/AB, since the cadet will have metal CAP cutouts.

I really don't see a need for the CAP cutout insignia on any uniform for senior members.  I think we're having a hard time letting go of the CAP cutout for senior members, since we spent 60 years wearing it on the collar.  It's time to just consider that insignia to represent C/AB.  As far as the NCO service dress, they should wear the US lapel insignia with the circles. 

So, the end result of this long post:  No seniors members should ever wear the CAP cutouts on the collar of any uniform (metal or cloth).  Senior Member without grade pursuing officer promotion should wear the blank epaulet on any garment that has an epaulet.  Have I forgotten anything or any uniform?  Is there anyway this would not work? 

[pierson777]

This manual says in several places that graduated commanders wear the commander insignia pin 1/2" below the name tag or name tap.  This is fine on some uniforms.  However, this doesn't really work on uniforms with a pocket flap.  It also does not agree with how the USAF wears their command insignia pin on their uniforms.

Anytime there is not a pocket flap, the command insignia pin should be located 1/2 " below the name tag, i.e. on service coat, mess dress, or women's service uniform blouse, women's white aviatohttp://captalk.net/Themes/classic/images/bbc/bold.gifr overblouse.

However, if there is a pocket  flap with a button, the command insignia pin should be located centered between the name tag and the button of the pocket flap, i.e. men's service uniform shirt, white aviator shirt.

Lastly, if there is a pocket  flap without a button, the command insignia pin should be located centered between the nametape and the bottom of the pocket flap, i.e. BDU, Corporate Field Uniform.

[pierson777]

4.1.5.4.3
4.1.5.5.2.3
4.1.7.4.3
11.1.1.1.1
These paragraphs state that ribbons, badges, and devices worn by adult
members (officers and NCOs) must fall below the top notch of the collar on the service coat or the bottom tip (front edge) of the collar of shirts/blouses worn as outergarments.  This is rule is not found in AFI 36-2903, so I don't think CAP should have this rule either.  The only thing in AFI 36-2903 that is relevant is 11.1.5 that says that the lapel of the service coat may cover a portion of the ribbons.  If CAP is going to have this rule, it needs to apply to all members to include cadets.  I recommend eliminating this rule altogether.

[pierson777]

4.1.5.4.4.2
4.1.9.4.3.2
4.1.10.4.3.2
4.2.5.3.3.2
There are disagreements in these paragraphs.  One sentence states, "CAP service badges, if worn, are always worn on the left."  Another Sentence says, "The National Commander's Staff Badge will always be worn on the wearer's right side."  The National Commander's Staff badge is a service badge, so these sentences disagree with each other.  Additionally, the last sentence says, "The CAP Senior Advisory Group, Command Council, National Board or National Executive Committee will always be worn on the left side." These are all service badges, so it is redundant to explain that they are worn on left, since the earlier sentence stated that service badges are always worn on the left.

[pierson777]

6.1.1.4 cadet officer rank on pullover sweater
6.1.2.2.3 cadet officer rank on cardigan sweater
6.1.3.2.2 cadet officer rank insignia on lightweight blue jacket
6.1.9.2.2 cadet officer rank insignia on topcoat
These paragraphs use the term "shoulder mark".  I know this term is also used in AFI 36-2903, but I'm embarrassed to say, "I have no idea what a shoulder mark is".  This doesn't tell the reader if the rank is supposed to pinned directly onto the epaulet flap, or if it is supposed to be pinned onto a blue epaulet sleeve.

[pierson777]

AFI 36-2903 and CAPM 39-1 DRAFT now use the term "rank insignia" instead of "grade insignia".  There are still several instances of the use of the term "grade insignia" which should be changed to "rank insignia". 

I actually disagree with the term "rank insignia", and I still believe it should be called "grade insignia".  I realize CAP is following the example set by AFI 36-2903, but I think the authors of that manual got it wrong.  Insignia can not tell me someone's rank when compared to others with the same grade. 

This is same old dilemma, "What is the difference between grade and rank?"  Well, thanks to AFI 36-2903 and CAPM 39-1 DRAFT, we can no longer explain that grade is a major step in the promotion structure while rank is the seniority among those within the same grade.

[pierson777]

4.1.7.4.4.2  Badges on the Female Service Dress Uniform
The location of the Service Badges described in the last two sentences of this paragraph is misleading.  It seems that the badges are supposed to be worn over the name tag, and towards to lapel, but it also states that some are worn on the wearer's right and some will always be worn on the left side.  This needs some clarification.

[pierson777]

4.1.7.11
4.1.8.11
These paragraphs do not allow women to wear combat boots with the service dress uniform.  This is unfair to women, considering that men may wear the combat boots with the service dress uniform and blue service uniform.  Furthermore, this is not consistent with AFI 36-2903, Paragraphs 6.4.2.9 and 6.4.3 which allow women to wear combat boots without design and can only be worn while wearing slacks.

[pierson777]

4.2.5.3.3.3
This paragraph states, "If a specialty track or service badge is worn on the wearer's right side above the name tag..."  The words "or service badge" should be deleted, because Paragraph 4.2.5.3.3.2 states that, "CAP service badges, if worn, are always worn on the left, with only one being worn."

[pierson777]

6.1
4.1.9.11
4.1.10.12
The "Wool Pullover Sweater" was phased out by the USAF.  CAP should also phase it out and replace it with the new 50/50 Acrylic Wool Pullover Sweater.  I recommend changing this text to "50/50 Acrylic Wool Pullover Sweater."  This phase should also be listed in the Attachment 9.

[pierson777]

4.2.3.2.2
The last sentence states, "...if the blazer has no pocket."  However, 4.2.3.1 states that the blazer shall have...a left breast pocket."  I recommend deleting the reference to alignment of the nametag to ½ inch above the CAP crest or service badge.