It's finally here!

[Devil Doc]

So there not going my Air Force Regs on the FlightSuit  then, AirForce does not wear the rank on there Shoulders. They really want a "Tacky" Plastic encased Rank on our flightsuits? The plastic gets dirty, cracks, and looses its luster after an year, then you have to change it every time. Why have they made this Mando? Looks like im going to wait till after the Ball, to get more Tayloring Done.




Still appalled at an Tacky Plastic Encased Rank, Cant it be Cloth Rank? lol

[THRAWN]

Been like this for years. Never had to replace my insignia aside from the one time I got caught on a seatbelt...

So there not going my Air Force Regs on the FlightSuit  then, AirForce does not wear the rank on there Shoulders. They really want a "Tacky" Plastic encased Rank on our flightsuits? The plastic gets dirty, cracks, and looses its luster after an year, then you have to change it every time. Why have they made this Mando? Looks like im going to wait till after the Ball, to get more Tayloring Done.




Still appalled at an Tacky Plastic Encased Rank, Cant it be Cloth Rank? lol

[Devil Doc]

Im not saying everybodies rank does this. It sucks for people who change ranks, Ill wait till I get 1 Leuy, in 2 months, before i wear the flightsuit again. Maybe not?

[JK657]

So there not going my Air Force Regs on the FlightSuit  then, AirForce does not wear the rank on there Shoulders.

Air Force Officers wear their rank on their shoulders on the flight suit

[MHC5096]

Correct. Only enlisted aircrew have the bare shoulders on the FDU.

[NIN]

So there not going my Air Force Regs on the FlightSuit  then, AirForce does not wear the rank on there Shoulders. They really want a "Tacky" Plastic encased Rank on our flightsuits? The plastic gets dirty, cracks, and looses its luster after an year, then you have to change it every time. Why have they made this Mando? Looks like im going to wait till after the Ball, to get more Tayloring Done.




Still appalled at an Tacky Plastic Encased Rank, Cant it be Cloth Rank? lol

So  you mean that AFMAN 36-2903, para 8.4.1 and 8.4.2 are WRONG?

No, certainly you don't mean that. What you mean is "I didn't bother to look at the manual I appeared to be quoting."

See here:

8.4.2. Rank Insignia (O-1 through O-6). Wear subdued cloth rank insignia on each shoulder of the FDU/DFDU and flight jackets (plastic covered rank insignia is not authorized). Rank will be sewn-on 5/8 inches from the shoulder seam, centered on the shoulder.

Yes, the USAF wears rank on their flight suit. On the shoulders.

Difference: subdued cloth vs bright in plastic.

[Eclipse]

Plastic-encased grade has always been mandatory on the flight suit (by always, at least the last two decades).

Velcro looks cheesy, and no one changes their grade that often.  A fast-tracker making Lt Col in the minimum 10 years
will have 1, 1.5, 3, and 4-year intervals between changes, and will most likely need to replace the suit itself at least once.

Any standard consumer machine can sew the plastic, and certainly your nice lady on the corner can.

Nothing warms the heart more then people who pay $150 for a lunch run whining about a few bucks for insignia.

If you don't like the plastic, get a blue flight suit - it looks way sharper then the green anyway, and a lot more
distinctive, and it uses color-matched grade.

Say what you will about the lack of a proper corporate dress uniform, assuming the changes in the draft stick,
members wearing corporate field and flight uniforms are going to look a heck of a lot more "put together" then
the USAF ABU (which I still say may not happen).

The Blue field and flight uniforms will be wearing color-matched tapes and insignia, unlike the presumed ABUs
which will still be "colorful".

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

after losing *just one* plastic encased Lt Col (and finding it later stuck to an article of clothing in my closet) on velcro, I gave up and sewed them straight on.

I took a leather punch/awl (available on Swiss Army and Boy Scout knives), poked several holes in mine, got some clear thread from Hobby Lobby and had mine on in under half an hour.

On my blue bag I wear the dark-blue insignia and like it much better.

As for not wearing the rank at all...the sole senior squadron I was a member of had a lot of people who didn't like uniforms, period.  Quite a few of them wore nothing but flight suits (including to meetings) with nothing but the leather nameplate.

[Eclipse]

got some clear thread from Hobby Lobby and had mine on in under half an hour.

I've found 2lb-test fishing line works better for this.  Actual clear "thread" is to stretchy for my liking, but either will work.

[a2capt]

I blasted properly spaced holes in it with the laser cutter, then just used the sewing machine by hand, turning the wheel and moving it. Worked great.

[Devil Doc]

My Bad Guys, Jeez, I was always around Enlisted, And never noticed the Rank on the Flight Suit. Now, come to think of it, I do remember seeing it, just never knew what it was. (Never got close to Officers)  . So, We do wear them on the Flight suit, Gotcha, Looks like Big V gunna get another order.

[PHall]

My Bad Guys, Jeez, I was always around Enlisted, And never noticed the Rank on the Flight Suit. Now, come to think of it, I do remember seeing it, just never knew what it was. (Never got close to Officers)  . So, We do wear them on the Flight suit, Gotcha, Looks like Big V gunna get another order.

The Air Force wears subdued grade insignia on the flight suits vs full color on Navy/Marine Corps flight suits.

I guess the subdued insignia worked, you didn't see it.

[Devil Doc]

So, I;ve seen many wear the Flight suit without the Rank on the Shoulders, the only time i,ve seen it, is when Members were wearing the Blue Flight suit. I;m sorry I was Wrong, I'm human. Now, does that make it right no, but what do you do when, So So squadron, dosn't wear there's?

[Eclipse]

Wear yours properly and let the others look like goobers.

[Shuman 14]

Finally had some time tonight to read thru the draft completely and this thread.

Three things I'm gonna point out:

1. I completely disagree with the prohibition of wearing military awards and badges on the Corporate uniform. Regardless of the reasons given its just wrong and a slap in the face to those who served honorably but now in their later years have put on a few pounds. Wrong... just plan wrong.

2. With the complete adoption of USAF uniform regulations into the draft, there are going to be a few "butt hurt" veterans who have for years worn certain badges (ie the EIB, CIB, EMB, CMB, etc.) completely within CAP regulations and now have to take them off. Another slap in the face.

3. The commander CAP-USAF seems to be the sole ultimate authority of what is and what isn't authorized as a CAP uniform. Now when it comes to the USAF-style uniform and cadet uniforms, that should be completely within his/her purview of responsibility. For Corporate uniform, not so much. They are not USAF uniforms and the input and control should remain solely within CAP.

[Panache]

2. With the complete adoption of USAF uniform regulations into the draft, there are going to be a few "butt hurt" veterans who have for years worn certain badges (ie the EIB, CIB, EMB, CMB, etc.) completely within CAP regulations and now have to take them off. Another slap in the face.

Being prior-service Army and having earned a CMB (first Gulf War), I feel I can comment on this.

I'm fine with that.

Basically, if we're going to wear the AF uniform, then we should abide by the AF regulations for wear of that uniform.  If the AF doesn't allow their own, active-duty airmen and officers to wear these devices (if they somehow earned them), then we should't wear them either.

Now, should I think we should be authorized?  Sure, but that's a gripe at Ma Blue, and not the CAP leadership.

[abdsp51]

2. With the complete adoption of USAF uniform regulations into the draft, there are going to be a few "butt hurt" veterans who have for years worn certain badges (ie the EIB, CIB, EMB, CMB, etc.) completely within CAP regulations and now have to take them off. Another slap in the face.

Being prior-service Army and having earned a CMB (first Gulf War), I feel I can comment on this.

I'm fine with that.

Basically, if we're going to wear the AF uniform, then we should abide by the AF regulations for wear of that uniform.  If the AF doesn't allow their own, active-duty airmen and officers to wear these devices (if they somehow earned them), then we should't wear them either.

Now, should I think we should be authorized?  Sure, but that's a gripe at Ma Blue, and not the CAP leadership.

You doubt that AF members have earned these badges?  I can tell you there are a quite a few of my fellow brother/sister blue berets who have earned those badges and did so with honor.  And I personally know two of them who have earned the Ranger tab as well.  Plus not to mention plenty of blue berets have been combat patched for their service and accomplishment of the mission, including myself.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The commander CAP-USAF seems to be the sole ultimate authority of what is and what isn't authorized as a CAP uniform. Now when it comes to the USAF-style uniform and cadet uniforms, that should be completely within his/her purview of responsibility. For Corporate uniform, not so much. They are not USAF uniforms and the input and control should remain solely within CAP.

I believe it used to be that way, until the debacle with the CSU.  We were never given a reason for its demise.  The "conventional wisdom" is that the Air Force didn't like it, but there is no official evidence to support that.  My personal opinion is that those Higher Up wanted to attempt to wipe the slate of anything that had to do with the Era of the Self-Appointed Generalissimo.  That left a bad taste in a lot of members' mouths, mine included.

After that, and I'm referring from memory to then-National CC General Courter's PowerPoint on the subject, CAP-USAF demanded/asked/was granted virtually the same authority over "corporate" uniforms as the AF uniforms.

I would NEVER impugn Gen. Courter's character.  By virtually all accounts (I haven't had the pleasure of meeting her), she's nice, approachable, smart and did a hell of a job walking into the rat's nest of her predecessor.  It is very unlikely that her preference killed the CSU, because her official picture on the CAP website had her wearing it for a long time.

Her PowerPoint said that "the corporate uniforms do not exist to provide a military-looking alternative."  I would say she was saying what she was told by CAP-USAF.

Since then, the message from Those Up The Food Chain has been clear on "corporate" uniforms, reflected in the draft of the New and Improved 39-1.

1.  Thou shalt not make any substantial modifications to the current "corporate" uniforms.
2.  Thou shalt not criticise or attempt to change the status quo.
3.  Thou shalt not make suggestions such as a hat or different service coat.
4.  Thou shalt really, really not mention the colour blue, even if it is a completely civilian garment.
5.  The Whole of the Law shalt be summed up in the AFI undefinable standard of "low light/at-a-distance."
6.  Thou shalt not say the "corporate" uniform is anything other than attractive and professional-looking, and reeketh of aviation history.
7.  Thou shalt not compare the "corporate" uniform to that of a Realtor or a mall security person.
8.  Thou shalt never be permitted to wear CAP blingage on the "blazer," much less MILITARY blingage.
9.  Grey is the way, and thou shalt not criticise it.
10.The New and Improved 39-1 is The Final Word, and once it is finalised, thou shalt not mutter anything about uniform changes ever again.

[Panache]

2. With the complete adoption of USAF uniform regulations into the draft, there are going to be a few "butt hurt" veterans who have for years worn certain badges (ie the EIB, CIB, EMB, CMB, etc.) completely within CAP regulations and now have to take them off. Another slap in the face.

Being prior-service Army and having earned a CMB (first Gulf War), I feel I can comment on this.

I'm fine with that.

Basically, if we're going to wear the AF uniform, then we should abide by the AF regulations for wear of that uniform.  If the AF doesn't allow their own, active-duty airmen and officers to wear these devices (if they somehow earned them), then we should't wear them either.

Now, should I think we should be authorized?  Sure, but that's a gripe at Ma Blue, and not the CAP leadership.

You doubt that AF members have earned these badges?  I can tell you there are a quite a few of my fellow brother/sister blue berets who have earned those badges and did so with honor.  And I personally know two of them who have earned the Ranger tab as well.  Plus not to mention plenty of blue berets have been combat patched for their service and accomplishment of the mission, including myself.

You totally misread what I said.

I never doubted that anybody in the Air Force earned those badges.  On the contrary, I'm aware that there are those who have earned them.

My point was:  If the Air Force doesn't allow their own active-duty and reserve Airmen and officers who have earned the badges to wear them on their uniforms, then why should CAP members who choose to wear the AF-blue uniform be allowed to wear them?

[Panache]

1.  Thou shalt not make any substantial modifications to the current "corporate" uniforms.
2.  Thou shalt not criticise or attempt to change the status quo.
3.  Thou shalt not make suggestions such as a hat or different service coat.
4.  Thou shalt really, really not mention the colour blue, even if it is a completely civilian garment.
5.  The Whole of the Law shalt be summed up in the AFI undefinable standard of "low light/at-a-distance."
6.  Thou shalt not say the "corporate" uniform is anything other than attractive and professional-looking, and reeketh of aviation history.
7.  Thou shalt not compare the "corporate" uniform to that of a Realtor or a mall security person.
8.  Thou shalt never be permitted to wear CAP blingage on the "blazer," much less MILITARY blingage.
9.  Grey is the way, and thou shalt not criticise it.
10.The New and Improved 39-1 is The Final Word, and once it is finalised, thou shalt not mutter anything about uniform changes ever again.

Can we get these etched on some stone tablets, to go?