Use of Cadets on Late Night Missions

[LittleIronPilot]

My first mission was as a cadet and I was called out at about 2000 on a Monday.  We drove 2 hours to the general location, searched for another 2, found the ELT, waited another hour for the owner to show up, and drove home another 2 hours.  Total 7 hours = 0300 return home.  Back up for school at 0530.

I graduated with over a 4.0.  Had it been everyday - yeah, it might have been a problem.  But one or two a year - no biggie.  We don't do this full time.

My take though is to only call those cadets who have permission from their parents AND are performing well in school.  Some parents don't care what their kid does (therefore get permission) and they often times are the ones that are failing a few classes.  That doesn't work for me.

Keep up your game and you can play.  Otherwise, you're on the bench.

Ummm...the permission thing I get, but how the heck am I supposed to know if a cadet is doing well in school? I have minimal interaction with the cadet side of the house outside of ES training.

[jimmydeanno]

I can understand you "predicament."  I'm in a situation where I work with cadets and do ES stuff so I know where all the cadets stand academically. It's a call I can make on the spot without having to make additional phone calls.

My cadets know that their school priorities come first.  Also, if we call a cadet out, our policy is to notify the DCC as well - since they'll be the one getting the phone call from the parents.  So in general there is a lot of communication between the ES staff and the cadet staff in these areas.

In general though - I'd just say do whatever works for your squadron, if it makes sense - do it.

YMMV.

[John Bryan]

Child labor,  curfew, and missing school rules/laws are state by state and need to be considered. If there is a need, maybe change the law.....curfew in Indiana is very limited thanks to our state supreme court. Parents decide when their kids can be out not the state/city.

As for missing school in Indiana cadets MUST be excused up to 5 days a year for missions....State law for CAP Cadets. National Guard soliders still in high school can miss 10 in Indiana.

To be a cadet, you are required to be doing at least satisfactory in school so hopefully not too many cadets are failing any classes.

By the way we have cadets miss school for more then missions....what about military orientation flights or CLA which requires a week of school to be missed?

[isuhawkeye]

many states have very large home school programs.  these youth have a unique opportunity to flex their schedules around unique opportunities like missions

[John Bryan]

and some schools are better about it then others.....a few years ago I had a cadet (17 yr old /11th grader ) out on our GT when we found a ELT which turned out to be a crashed airplane (we should treat all ELTs as crashes till proven not to be but thats a different issue). The mission started at around 10pm , we found the crash about midnight and were on scene about an hour, then RTB for debriefings and paperwork, and ended with a 4 am trip to Dennys. His school did not excuse the absence, they counted him present for the next days classes and recorded the mission as a "field trip".....their reasoning was he was learning life lessons they could not teach in the classroom.

By the way, his grades never suffered.....he got his BS from Purdue and is now an air traffic controller.

[♠SARKID♠]

Ummm...the permission thing I get, but how the heck am I supposed to know if a cadet is doing well in school? I have minimal interaction with the cadet side of the house outside of ES training.

Ask for their report cards

[BillB]

You can ask for report cards but under privacy laws, they are not required to show them. And for those few over the age of 18, the parents don't even get to see them unless the student gives the school permission.

[Pumbaa]

That's why I love the fact that 90% of our cadets are homeschooled!  As the parents bring them I ask how they are doing grade wise!   Nothing like having the principal and teacher there

If a cadet wants to be added to the callout list for late night missions, one of the criteria is *TO* show a copy of the grades/report card.  If they say they don't want to show it because of the so called privacy laws, etc... then they are scratched off the list...  that simple.

They don't have to show me anything, I don't have to allow them on the list....   

[maverik]

Well I would say that you would use the cadets because 99% of SAR missions begin at night. I understand the curfew thing but...most states/local goverments make exceptions to emrgency personnel. Just my 2 cents though.

[Ned]

You can ask for report cards but under privacy laws, they are not required to show them. And for those few over the age of 18, the parents don't even get to see them unless the student gives the school permission.

Well,  privacy laws will certainly vary from state to state, but there is nothing that would suggest that it is improper for us to ask to see a cadet's grades since "failure to maintain a satisfactory academic school record" is cause for termination under CAPR 35-3 , para 3a(5).

If I were a squadron commander/DCC and a cadet of any age declined/refused to show me a report card, in all likelinhood they would be an ex-member fairly shortly.

(But they would certainly have their privacy. )

Ned Lee

[mikeylikey]

^ Agreed.  How can parents not be allowed to see the student records (like report cards)?  Children are minors, and have little privacy rights when it comes to their parents or guardians.  Heck, in my State, a student under the age of 18 can not see their school records, but the parent can see them.  Also, grade reports are addressed to the attention of the students guardians, not the student. 

[LtCol057]

A few years ago, we designed some forms that were kept on file re: cadet participation in ES activities.  The form had to be signed by the cadet indicating they would abide by our policies for ES. The parents also had to sign the form giving us permission to call the cadets.  If the parents didn't want us to call the cadets out, there was a different spot to sign, or if they wanted to restrict the time we could call.  We also sent a letter to the respective schools advising the cadet was an active member of CAP and they might be out of class due to a mission, but the cadets were aware they were responsible for any work missed. I don't remember us ever calling a cadet out on a school night.  Holiday weekends, summer, yeah. All of this was contingent upon the cadet maintaining a decent grade (C or higher) in ALL school work, progressing adequately in the cadet program, maintaining currency in all ES quals.  This form had to be renewed at the start of every school year.  The cadets had to submit copies of grade reports. No grade reports, their name was off the call out list.

We had pretty good parental participation then. The parents knew if they grounded their child for discipline, the cadet was off our call list for the duration of the grounding.  All they had to do was call.  I got a very few calls "My child, cadet soandso, has been grounded for 2 weeks, take them off the call list". 

[Duke Dillio]

Can someone post one of these forms?  I've seen the talk about them but I'd like to see what they look like so that I can compare them to what I have.  Thanks.

[LtCol057]

I'll see if I can find one. We haven't had any cadets involved in ES in awhile, currently trying to get the program running again.

[JoeTomasone]

Since becoming the Group ES Officer, my policy has been to include Trainees and Cadets on missions whenever possible/practical.   I have suggested that all Squadrons maintain a list of all 101'ed and T'ed Cadets and get their parents to state their availability for inclusion into alert procedures.   

Essentially, I don't feel that CAP should be policing report cards and the like -- we should be letting the parents make the call unless we have evidence that suggests that this may not be in the best interests of the Cadet.

[Larry Mangum]

Back in the day, when I was part of the Beverly Composite Squadron, it was standard procedure to call out cadets along with Seniors for ELT missions.

[jeders]

My general policy in the past has been not to call cadets at all on school nights and then call them on weekends and during holidays. Reading this thread I think I may change that a little by having cadets' parents sign a paper showing availability during the year.

Essentially, I don't feel that CAP should be policing report cards and the like -- we should be letting the parents make the call unless we have evidence that suggests that this may not be in the best interests of the Cadet.

Actually we're (at least those of us working with cadets regularly) supposed to police cadets' report cards.

3. Causes To Terminate Cadet Membership: ...
(5) Failure to maintain a satisfactory academic school
record

So hopefully squadrons are keeping an eye on that and keeping cadets from participating on missions at least if they aren't performing satisfactorily.

[JoeTomasone]

Actually we're (at least those of us working with cadets regularly) supposed to police cadets' report cards.

3. Causes To Terminate Cadet Membership: ...
(5) Failure to maintain a satisfactory academic school
record

So hopefully squadrons are keeping an eye on that and keeping cadets from participating on missions at least if they aren't performing satisfactorily.

Noted, but I think that participation should be the parent's call; termination is CAP's call.   <shrug>

[jeders]

Actually we're (at least those of us working with cadets regularly) supposed to police cadets' report cards.

3. Causes To Terminate Cadet Membership: ...
(5) Failure to maintain a satisfactory academic school
record

So hopefully squadrons are keeping an eye on that and keeping cadets from participating on missions at least if they aren't performing satisfactorily.

Noted, but I think that participation should be the parent's call; termination is CAP's call.   <shrug>

Probably, but I've always had a school first policy. So if they aren't doing well in school, they don't get to come out and play. Just my view, YMMV.

[Duke Dillio]

Has anyone ever seen a cadet get 2B'd for failure to maintain grades?  I've never personally seen it.  I have had parents call me to tell me that Little Johnny or Little Suzie won't be participating in CAP for a couple of weeks due to poor grades/attendence problems.

As to the original post, I agree completely that it is the parent's call on whether or not to allow the cadet to participate.  If the parent is a squadron member, it is usually not a problem.