Cadets earning ES Specialty Rating

[Afbrat52]

I'm sure this thread line has been discussed, but I have a slightly different question: At what point do you think a cadet should pursue ESO?

Thanks in advance.

[arajca]

ESO is not an ES specialty rating, it is a PD rating. Cadets cannot earn the ESO rating, however, they can earn the ESO basic badge.

[Eclipse]

IMHO they shouldn't - there's enough to do just pursuing the normal program, and they
can be involved in ES pretty comprehensively without it.

Since they don't actually earn the rating, I usually see it as just chasing another pin.

With that said, at any point the cadet is capable, and the C/ESO track doesn't interfere
with their progression and normal participation - they should not be allowed to distance themselves
from the normal cadres because they are sitting at the adult table for staff meetings.

I've seen highly motivated cadets allowed to take on Senior-member duties, who then halt
their own progression and make the excuse they are "too busy", then when they are called on it
and lose their staff job, they drop out of the program.

[Afbrat52]

I understand that the pin is just 'bling-chasing', but I am talking more about the associated responsibilities.

Should cadets pursue the associated responsibilities?

[Luis R. Ramos]

Cadets are never held responsible. Only senior members are responsible under CAP rules. If you have a Safety Officer willing to have an assistant, and he/she delegates those duties to the cadet, then go ahead. The senior member supervising that cadet should correct him/her.

[arajca]

I understand that the pin is just 'bling-chasing', but I am talking more about the associated responsibilities.

Should cadets pursue the associated responsibilities?

A cadet CANNOT be an ESO. They can be an assistant to the senior member ESO. As for when they can do that, I think Eclipse has it down, and I'll add that it should be made perfectly clear that their primary function is a cadet and they must continue to progress in the cadet program. If the added duties of asst. ESO cause issues with that, they should have the ESO duties withdrawn.

[Eclipse]

I understand that the pin is just 'bling-chasing', but I am talking more about the associated responsibilities.

Should cadets pursue the associated responsibilities?

I am not a big fan for the reasons stated.

Older cadets close to dark-siding is one thing, but many times its younger cadets looking to be
different.  Cadets have their own goals and role, the best bet is to stay there.

[Panzerbjorn]

In my squadron, the position of C/ESO is a staff duty position, not a rating or anything.  While they can assist the Senior member ESOs, their primary responsibilities are to ensure their fellow cadets get trained in ES qualifications (GTM, MRO, etc.) and to plan ES weekends.  They're also the ones who plan and conduct the ES specialty track training sessions during the cadet meetings.

So, while a cadet can't hold the position of Squadron ESO, there can be an equivalent staff position at the cadet level.

Oh, but to actually help answer the question, a C/ESO is selected every six months (we have 63 cadets, so we find we need to rotate duty positions more frequently to give more cadets the opportunity at staff positions) and are selected by the cadet command/exec staff via interviews.  The cadet the C/ESO position is awarded to is typically one who has UDF, GTM, and MRO qualifications.  They're usually 15 or 16, and have shown that they have good ideas they want to implement, and the capability to follow through with planning.    That's usually the minimum criteria.  Typically, the chosen cadet has shown him/herself head and shoulders above other candidates with advanced training from NESA or Hawk Mountain, gone and gotten themselves NASAR certifications like SARTEC, Advanced First Aid, CPR, WAFA, and other activities that just show they have a genuine love for doing ES.

[PA Guy]

In my squadron, the position of C/ESO is a staff duty position, not a rating or anything.  While they can assist the Senior member ESOs, their primary responsibilities are to ensure their fellow cadets get trained in ES qualifications (GTM, MRO, etc.) and to plan ES weekends.  They're also the ones who plan and conduct the ES specialty track training sessions during the cadet meetings.

So, while a cadet can't hold the position of Squadron ESO, there can be an equivalent staff position at the cadet level.

Oh, but to actually help answer the question, a C/ESO is selected every six months (we have 63 cadets, so we find we need to rotate duty positions more frequently to give more cadets the opportunity at staff positions) and are selected by the cadet command/exec staff via interviews.  The cadet the C/ESO position is awarded to is typically one who has UDF, GTM, and MRO qualifications.  They're usually 15 or 16, and have shown that they have good ideas they want to implement, and the capability to follow through with planning.    That's usually the minimum criteria.  Typically, the chosen cadet has shown him/herself head and shoulders above other candidates with advanced training from NESA or Hawk Mountain, gone and gotten themselves NASAR certifications like SARTEC, Advanced First Aid, CPR, WAFA, and other activities that just show they have a genuine love for doing ES.

Typically how often has your successful candidate promoted in the yr prior to their application to be a C/ESO?  How successful has your successful candidate been in the cadet program? How many cadet leadership positions have they held? Is a successful cadet tenure part of the selection process? Does the C/ESO function as a member of the cadet or senior staff? Is there a minimum grade required to apply?

[Panzerbjorn]

Typically how often has your successful candidate promoted in the yr prior to their application to be a C/ESO?  How successful has your successful candidate been in the cadet program? How many cadet leadership positions have they held? Is a successful cadet tenure part of the selection process? Does the C/ESO function as a member of the cadet or senior staff? Is there a minimum grade required to apply?

We have extremely few cadets that don't promote within a year's time, so the answer to that question is that they have promoted at least once, if not multiple times, in the year prior to them applying for C/ESO.  I haven't seen number of times promoted be an issue in selection.

It would depend on how you define successful in the cadet program.  We look for cadets that are very active in the program, mainly.  We don't necessarily need an AFA candidate, IACE participant, solo wings types.  What we do definitely look for are ones who have been successful in gaining their ES qualifications.  It's not a job for a GTM3 trainee.

Number of leadership positions vary.  C/ESO is a support staff position, not a line command position.  It's more important for the successful candidate to have a full understanding of ES and be able to enable the cadets to obtain their ES qualifications than whether they've been a Flight Commander.  My own son was a strong candidate for C/ESO and he's only been an Assistant Flight Sergeant.  He took a position of Flight Sergeant for our flight that trains all new cadets.  He would STILL be eligible to have the C/ESO position, but it was felt by all involved that his plate would be full enough with the new cadets, and he'll probably get the position at a later time.

An outgoing C/ESO certainly can make recommendations for his/her successor, but they don't choose the successor.  That privilege is for the Cadet CC.

The C/ESO functions as part of the cadet staff, not the senior staff.  Our Squadron ESOs come to us, the Cadet Program Officers, and let us know what they need.  We pass the information along to the Cadet CC, and the Cadet CC passes it along to the C/ESO.  In our circumstance, we can short-cut a little bit as I'm both one of the Assistant ESOs as well as an Assistant Cadet Programs Officer.  The key is having open communication to concerned parties.  The senior side of the squadron is primarily geared towards air operations, and there's not much need for cadet participation and input on those ES activities in our circumstances.

Minimum grade?  Nothing established, no.  Again, it's a support staff position, not a line staff position.  But realistically, anyone with a grade less than C/MSgt would probably be encouraged to take on an Assistant role and learn the job.  But they would then be watched for growth and development for their enthusiasm and potential for the position in the future.

[PA Guy]

Please, please read CAPR 52-16 particularly para 1-4 and the Cadet Oath.

I really don't understand your use of support/line staff. You seen to think it has something to do with rank. It doesn't, it simply defines areas of responsibility. ES is not a primary mission responsibility of the Cadet Program nor should it be a cadet's primary focus. If ES can be worked in as an elective OK. But a properly run Cadet Program will leave little room for ES.

Have you ever attended a TLC? If not please go to one.

[Panzerbjorn]

Wow.  That is by far the most polite way I've ever been called an idiot to date.  I tip my hat to you, sir.  At least you didn't TRY to sound patronizing.  Oh wait...

[SarDragon]

Panzer, I don't think that was directed at you. I think it was for afbrat. Or not.

[bflynn]

I understand that the pin is just 'bling-chasing', but I am talking more about the associated responsibilities.

Should cadets pursue the associated responsibilities?

Questions - would they do it without the bling?  If there was no pin and they were civic minded enough to want to help their community anyway, then yes, they should pursue it. But don't do it for the chest candy, you won't be happy and you'll upset others in the process.

[Spam]

Please, please read CAPR 52-16 particularly para 1-4 and the Cadet Oath.
... a properly run Cadet Program will leave little room for ES.

Have you ever attended a TLC? If not please go to one.

I stand behind the training, qualification, and employment of cadets on a case by case basis on actual SAR/DR missions, in accordance with the applicable CAP policy, which apparently needs re-reading.

Some officers may disagree, choosing to teach/train without actually qualifying to standards, or further, specifically denying employment on actual missions to otherwise qualified personnel who happen to be cadets - based not on ORM assessments or valid documented customer agency requests, but on personal biases. I view those officers as short sighted and/or poorly informed. There is more to be said regarding actions potentially opening CAP to violations of law regarding denial of access to federally funded programs, but I digress.  The key points I want to make in my concurrence with the use of (qualified, mature) cadets as ES officers/NCOs in an assistant role to a duly appointed and qualified DOS are:

- First, the policy letter specifically authorizes and encourages the use of cadets in ES.

- Second, the use of ES as yet another aspect of Leadership Laboratory training and experience cannot be downplayed. Few if any other youth programs offer such a vital aspect of their development plans. The statement that a "properly run" program has no room for ES indicates that you've completely eliminated from consideration the most powerful leadership training experiences available in our tool kit. What a shame you've truncated your program to relegate your cadets to a mere JROTC role, when CAP offers so much more. Its understandable in units with no qualified instructors but I urge you to seek improvement on their behalf.

- Third, the Cadet Oath specifically cites active participation in unit activities. Every unit shares the same 3 core missions; therefore, logically cadets pledge support to all three, including ES. Further, cadets pledge to advance their education and training (rapidly) to support their communities, states, and nation. The most immediate need and call from those communities and states is usually ES related; therefore, ES is a valid calling for cadets based on the spirit of their Oath.

- Fourth, having directed TLCs, I assure you that TLC promulgates the use of ES as part of the cadet program. See combined slides file, slides 15/16, which (while depicting cadets learning a LITTER CARRY training task as part of ES training) urge, "Use a variety of leadership & teaching styles so as to reach all cadets. Consider age and maturity as you promote cadets and assign jobs".  I believe that's exactly what we do by using ES as yet another venue for Lead Lab training.  Or, TLC slide 32 (with a picture of an officer training a cadet on a land nav course) as the intro slide for cadet/senior teaming, which states: "Seniors and cadets need to lead together. Use position descriptions to guide cadet staff". Or, slide 97, citing participation in ES missions.

- Finally, to tail onto the TLC recommendation to use PDs, CAPR 20-1 (Org of CAP) and CAPP 52-14 (Staff Duty Analyses) contain specific cadet officer staff duty studies (see Achs. 13, 14, 15 in particular) which easily lend themselves to cadet assistant/understudy positions (for AE, Ops, and Logistics, respectively). Regarding staff service, "During the staff service portion of the SDA especially, the staff officer should demonstrate how basic tasks are completed and then allow the cadet to perform them under their supervision". See the section on Ops Officer staff duty to find the following requirement: "Additionally, complete one of the following: 3a) Plan and conduct an emergency services training exercise or bivouac for cadets in your unit. 3b) Become qualified as a mission staff assistant or ground team member.  If already qualified, complete item 3a above".

I don't see how much clearer the program could be than to state it thus, that cadets are expected to actually perform supervised tasks (as Cadet Ops officers, in this specific instance) as part of learning all three missions. Eclipse is on target with his comments regarding such duties as Additional Duty, and not as a primary assignment - I too have seen cadets make some assignment (C/Supply NCO, C/ES, etc) their personal fiefdom to the detriment of their advancement and to the detriment of a healthy rotation amongst other qualified cadets.

If a unit has scoped their goals, their resulting training agenda, and the schedules that flow from that to preclude ES, then...

... You're Not Doing It Right.

V/R,
Spam

[Panzerbjorn]

Spam,

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I myself was going to say something to the effect of how much of a disservice is being done to the cadets if the litmus test for a properly run cadet program is that cadets aren't able to perform a simple ground team sortie.

[Spam]

Well, what we have is the actual program of record, hence the citations to answer the OP, and the resulting questions.

Eclipse really made an important point there to not overshadow, regarding ensuring that cadets don't get so dialed in on any one position ("owning" it) that when counseled to quit it and move on, they lose interest and quit the entire program.  There's room in CAP for all manner of interests and abilities, yet the program of record is to expose cadets to both line and non-line staff positions on a rotational basis over the course of their development through the program. When we let them settle in and stagnate in a preferred job (no matter how stellar they are as a Flight/CC, or a cadet DOS, or cadet Supply NCO, etc.) we do them and their fellows a disservice. 

To ensure freshness/progress, I recommend a six month term limit rotation of cadet command (ceremonies at the years end and summer picnic celebrations are nice to have) where the new cadet commander steps up having already screened staff candidates and provided a requested staff roster for my (senior staff) to vet and for me to approve as unit/CC. (You may ask, how can the incoming C/CC have all that ready so soon; my practice has been to emulate Navy squadron tradition in designating the XO (CAP: C/Deputy CC) as the incoming C/CC, so each six months we screen and select the DEPUTY cadet commander/cadet CC designee, who then has six months of OJT under his/her predecessor, with time to map out his plan of action for his upcoming term).

For clarity, I think we meant to define a "line" officer position as one involving a direct line of command of troops, e.g. a Commander of a unit, (CC) a Deputy Commander (CDC), a Cadet Commander (C/CC), etc down through Flight assignments, where a "staff officer" position is a non-supervisory billet reserved (occasionally as additional duty) for cadets to learn and contribute in a technical area (LG, DO, DA, etc.). Cadets assigned as quote "cadet ES officer/NCO" are in actuality appointed as assistants as previously stated, and if you have the bandwidth should be appointed as such in eServices, to ensure that those staff assistant assignments are visible when it comes time for awards and recognitions to be assessed.

We discuss this with specific examples in the TLCs that I run as DCP, as part of the modules associated with setting goals and staffing, agenda derivation, and scheduling to avoid conflicts and hair-tearing frustration...

V/R,
Spam

[Live2Learn]

This is an interesting thread.  My squadron, and my prior squadron, like SPAM (best "spam" I've read for awhile!) approach this in a similar manner.  Spokane has the Chase Youth Leadereship Award, a prestigious award for young leaders.  Young people who earn that award must demonstrate excellent skills and strong personal characteristics that can only be learned through hard work and commitment.  Parallel and concurrent participation in CAP ES and the County SAR, plus continued activity within the squadron C/Leadership has been a successful formula for some of our cadets.  The opportunity for cadets to demonstrate leadership with their peer group, and also with a group of mostly adults (many of whom have a depth of experience) is invaluable.

[Afbrat52]

Thanks for all the great input.  :clap:

C/A1C Aidan F.

[LTCinSWR]

Encouraging cadets to participate in ES can do three things: First, it is a career exploration opportunity for cadets (two cadets I mentored became emergency services providers - one as a firefighter/paramedic who has become a chief officer in his department and a second who now practices disaster and emergency medicine); second, there are so many leadership and communication exercise potentials (try teaching lifting and cribbing for CERT without having a leader!) that cadets can gain from; and third, we have invested a lot of time in cadets; it would be nice to have them become seniors. Maybe not right away - some go to the military and many go to college, but in a few years, they can recall the community service and camaraderie that came with doing ES and they might find their way back as a senior.