It's finally here!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I've always thought that the "Membership Ribbon" was silly.  If I'm there and in a uniform, I"m obviously a member.

That's our "fog-a-mirror" ribbon.

[skymaster]

Interesting find and it fits the description from the draft reg.

http://www.militaryuniformsupply.com/rothco-generation-3-ecwcs-fleece-jacket-black?gclid=CLKghqvk37sCFUho7Aod7lIAEA

I might pick one up just because $35.00 isn't bad for a coat like this. 

Any photoshop experts out there care to add the tapes & grade? 

Here is an alternate photo of the black fleece jacket, that might be more appropriate if the intent is to display the item individually, rather than as part of a larger cold-weather ensemble.

[DennisH]

This pretty much says it all.

"A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon"

Napoleon Bonaparte

[LSThiker]

I've always thought that the "Membership Ribbon" was silly.  If I'm there and in a uniform, I"m obviously a member.

That's our "fog-a-mirror" ribbon.

Off topic, but we have plenty of "fog-a-mirror" ribbons.  For seniors:

Membership ribbon is not necessary
Leadership ribbon is not necessary since we pretty much have badges for all of the specialties.
Scott A. Crossfield is redundant with the Master AE badge
Command Service ribbon if it stays that "graduated commanders" can continue to wear the command insignia.

Even then I am not too big on the different devices for the commander's commendation.  If I had received an Commendation Medal, it does not matter whether my commander recommended me or a 4-star general.  They are worn in the same fashion.

[Eclipse]

I'm semi-with you on this, but you're not accounting for all the possibilities, not to mention that those lower-end service
and PD ribbons tend to mean a lot to members in their first few years.

Also, saying a decoration is equivalent to a badge assumes the member wears the respective badge, and
vice-versa.

[LSThiker]

I'm semi-with you on this, but you're not accounting for all the possibilities, not to mention that those lower-end service
and PD ribbons tend to mean a lot to members in their first few years.

Also, saying a decoration is equivalent to a badge assumes the member wears the respective badge, and
vice-versa.

That is very true.  People tend to work harder for ribbons their first few years.  I understand that the membership award is like or somewhat like in principle to the Army Service ribbon or the Air Force BMT ribbon.   Maybe 1 PD ribbon with different devices, but that discussion is for a different thread and does not deal with the draft CAPM39-1.   

A ribbon is equivalent to a badge when they are awarded for the same things and they are worn on the same uniforms.  They represent the same thing (e.g. silver star on the leadership ribbon means the star/wreath on a person's badge).  While I understand that people are not required to wear the badge or ribbon, that is a choice for them.  Having three silver stars on the leadership ribbon and three badges with a star/wreath is saying exactly the same thing (that member has at least 3 master ratings).  But again, not exactly related to the draft CAPM39-1.

Sorry for the off-topic posts.

[LATORRECA]

I do have a question Why we are removing the US Flag from the Cammies (BDU's).

[Eclipse]

Having three silver stars on the leadership ribbon and three badges with a star/wreath is saying exactly the same thing (that member has at least 3 master ratings).  But again, not exactly related to the draft CAPM39-1.

I don't think it's that far off from the topic, which has slowed anyway.

A lot of members don't wear more then one badge, I, for one, wouldn't be caught dead with more then one PD badge, but
I've got a SSM in terms of PD.   Also, in terms of attachments, I generally factor in multiple awards more heavily when I'm reading a
rack - doing something at least twice usually says something about the service.

[LSThiker]

I do have a question Why we are removing the US Flag from the Cammies (BDU's).

Does the USAF wear them?  Are they really necessary?  For the vast majority of our member, do we even wear a uniform outside of the US?

  And it is just BDUs and not cammies.

[Eclipse]

I do have a question Why we are removing the US Flag from the Cammies (BDU's).

A lot of members felt it was in appropriate for a service that never leaves the CONUS, and it's
implementation was questionable, with the legend being that a former national commander
was mistaken for a member of a foreign military service.

With that said, it's been on the flight suit for decades and no one is suggesting we remove it there.

[NIN]

I do have a question Why we are removing the US Flag from the Cammies (BDU's).

Does the USAF wear them?  Are they really necessary?  For the vast majority of our member, do we even wear a uniform outside of the US?

  And it is just BDUs and not cammies.

Plus, the flag wear (right shoulder, on BDUs) was not something the USAF did on their BDUs.  That is something the Army did, however.

[PHall]

I do have a question Why we are removing the US Flag from the Cammies (BDU's).

Does the USAF wear them?  Are they really necessary?  For the vast majority of our member, do we even wear a uniform outside of the US?

  And it is just BDUs and not cammies.

Plus, the flag wear (right shoulder, on BDUs) was not something the USAF did on their BDUs.  That is something the Army did, however.

We started wearing the flag on our BDU's right after a now former National Commander was mistaken for a General Officer from Mexico during the Hurricane Katrina recovery.

[LSThiker]

Plus, the flag wear (right shoulder, on BDUs) was not something the USAF did on their BDUs.  That is something the Army did, however.

Yes because sewing a full-color US flag on a tactical uniform was a smart idea.  That was at least one advantage to going to ACUs, I could pull that flag off and replace it with a subdued flag.  Of course, it is not like the ACUs really help blend in with northern America vegetation.   

[lordmonar]

I do have a question Why we are removing the US Flag from the Cammies (BDU's).

Does the USAF wear them?  Are they really necessary?  For the vast majority of our member, do we even wear a uniform outside of the US?

  And it is just BDUs and not cammies.

Plus, the flag wear (right shoulder, on BDUs) was not something the USAF did on their BDUs.  That is something the Army did, however.

Actually.......when I deployed to Bosnia during the SFOR mission....we wore flags on right (IIRC) shoulders.....I got a picture of it at home....I'll check.

This by the way is when the Army started wearing the flag all the time....they just never bothered to take it off once the rotated back to the U.S.

[LSThiker]

Actually.......when I deployed to Bosnia during the SFOR mission....we wore flags on right (IIRC) shoulders.....I got a picture of it at home....I'll check.

This by the way is when the Army started wearing the flag all the time....they just never bothered to take it off once the rotated back to the U.S.

If you spend time outside the US in a "peacekeeping mission" (Bosnia), I agree.

[Mitchell 1969]

I saw my oversight RE: Wing/Unit patch heraldry guidelines and have since rescinded my position on that. I merely did not see the word "new."

On another aspect in regards to BDU headgear. Obviously we know boonie hats are still not allowed, but did anyone else notice that the standard Patrol-style cap is no longer authorized either? 6.2.10.1 specifically mentions baseball style BDU caps but not patrol-style. However, in 6.2.12.1, the patrol cap is specifically mentioned as the only style for BBDU.

In my wing, every surplus store has tons of new, used, and surplus BDUs, and they all carry the patrol cap. I don't think I've ever seen a BDU baseball cap for sale in a surplus store...

5.1.2.8 Headgear. - Headgear. - Wear of headgear is mandatory. Either the BDU Cap, the CAP Baseball Cap or the Black Watch cap (when in a cold weather environment), may be worn.

6.2.10 - BDU Cap. Will only be worn with the Battle Dress Uniform. For placement of appropriate insignia, see figure A5-8.
6.2.10.1 - The BDU cap will be composed of a cloth woodland camouflage print, and the back half of the baseball style cap may be plastic mesh. The BDU cap will rest squarely on the head with the bottom of the cap parallel with the ground. The brim of the cap will face forward. Cap may not be pushed, rolled, folded or tucked in (e.g. ranger fold).

Huh.  Good catch.

Wonder why they capitalized "CAP Baseball Cap" and "Black Watch Cap?"

"CAP baseball cap" works. As does "black watch cap."  Which will also do away with somebody trying to wear his grandad's cap that he wore while in the Black Watch.

[Mitchell 1969]

Just to get it straight in my head, does this mean that the badge will go on the flap of the pocket on the aviator shirts for the graduated commander?

Yes it does.  However, the appropriate reference is:

Current commanders wear the appropriate command pin centered on the wearer's right side, centered 1⁄2 inch above the name tag. If a specialty track or service badge is worn on the wearer's right side above the name tag, center badge 1⁄2 inch above the command insignia. If member is a graduated commander, place command insignia 1⁄2 inch below the nametag and centered.

.

Oddly though, the badge is mandatory for the USAF-style BDUs and Service Dress, but optional for the CAP Distinctive BDU and Service Dress.  I think they should just make it mandatory for both.

Is it a "badge" or a "pin?" Why references using both terms?

[JeffDG]

A lot of members felt it was in appropriate for a service that never leaves the CONUS,

I think members of HIWG and PRWG might disagree that CAP is "a service that never leaves the CONUS"

[VNY]

I do have a question Why we are removing the US Flag from the Cammies (BDU's).

Does the USAF wear them?  Are they really necessary?  For the vast majority of our member, do we even wear a uniform outside of the US?

If I am not mistaken, that uniform cannot be worn outside of the US anyway, so the flag is not needed.

[abdsp51]

I do have a question Why we are removing the US Flag from the Cammies (BDU's).

Does the USAF wear them?  Are they really necessary?  For the vast majority of our member, do we even wear a uniform outside of the US?

If I am not mistaken, that uniform cannot be worn outside of the US anyway, so the flag is not needed.

But the uniform can be worn outside the US.  There are units overseas.