Emergency Vehicle Lights

[isuhawkeye]

Because it is dangerous, and Rescuers DIE
http://www.firefighterclosecalls.com/

[cap235629]

I know that in Arkansas, where I grew up, that EMS vehicles could not run red lights...and volunteer firemen could not run red lights.  I know this  because I was a member of a Rural VFD and we got the "don't speed, don't run red lights" safety briefing every week.  Also there was a big fracas where an EMT driver who was responding to an automobile accident (he was the only unit with a "Jaws of life") got stopped for running a red light.  The victim in the car died and the EMT driver drove his rig into the center of a busy intersection, turned on his lights, sirens, opened all the doors and walked away in protest.

For the sake of argument.  I think it would be a good idea to have yellow flashing caution lights.  This will at least help if you are on a slow ELT search or parked on the side of the road getting a LOB.  But in no way shape or form should this be thought of a license to speed or run red lights.

Here is the current law here in Arkansas (former cop )
27-49-219. Vehicles.

(a)  "Vehicle" means every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, except devices moved by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks.

(b)  "Motor vehicles" means every vehicle which is self-propelled and every vehicle which is propelled by electric power obtained from overhead trolley wires but not operated upon rails.

(c)  "Motorcycle" means every motor vehicle having a saddle for the use of the rider and designed to travel on not more than three (3) wheels in contact with the ground but excluding a tractor.

(d)  (1)  "Authorized emergency vehicle" means authorized emergency vehicles which shall include:

          (A)  Motor vehicles used by state, county, or city and municipal police agencies, all of which shall be equipped with:

                (i)  Blue; or

                (ii)  Blue, red, or white rotating or flashing emergency lights;

          (B)  Motor vehicles used by state, county, city, or municipal fire departments, motor vehicles owned and used by volunteer fire fighters while engaged in official duties, motor vehicles used by emergency medical technicians certified by the Department of Health or privately owned fire departments, and ambulances used solely for ambulance purposes which are approved as ambulances in accordance with state and federal highway safety standards, all of which shall be equipped with red rotating or flashing emergency lights. Flashing emergency lights shall be used by volunteer fire fighters solely while engaged in the performance of duties as volunteer fire fighters and by emergency medical technicians solely while engaged in the performance of duties with an ambulance service licensed by the department or an organized rescue squad or team;

          (C)  Motor vehicles owned by state, county, and municipal agencies whose use is determined by the state agency to be required for dangerous or hazardous services and motor vehicles owned by public service corporations or private individuals whose use is determined by the Commissioner of Motor Vehicles, in accordance with regulations established by the commissioner to prevent abuses thereof, to be for extra hazardous service, may be equipped with amber flashing or rotating emergency or warning lights which shall not qualify them as emergency vehicles, but which shall, during hazardous uses thereof, display their amber flashing or rotating emergency or warning lights in order that other motorists and the public may be aware of the special or hazardous use of the vehicles and shall exercise caution in approaching the vehicles at all times while the amber flashing or rotating emergency or warning lights are in operation. All hazardous service vehicles shall conform to regular traffic signals and speed limits during their operation; and

          (D)  (i)  Motor vehicles utilized as wreckers or tow vehicles permitted or licensed under § 27-50-1203 may be equipped with amber flashing or rotating emergency or warning lights that shall not qualify them as emergency vehicles, but which shall, only during hazardous uses thereof, display their amber flashing or rotating emergency or warning lights in order that other motorists and the public may be aware of the special or hazardous use of the wreckers or tow vehicles and exercise caution in approaching the wreckers or tow vehicles at all times while the amber flashing or rotating emergency or warning lights are in operation. Unless otherwise directed by a law enforcement officer, a wrecker or tow vehicle shall conform to regular signals and speed limits during its operation. In addition to amber flashing or rotating emergency or warning lights, wreckers or tow vehicles that respond to highway emergencies may be equipped with red flashing or rotating emergency or warning lights.

                (ii)  Red flashing or rotating emergency or warning lights on a wrecker or tow vehicle shall be operated only while the wrecker or tow vehicle is stopped on or within ten feet (10') of a public way and engaged in recovery or loading and hooking up an abandoned, an unattended, a disabled, or a wrecked vehicle. A wrecker or tow vehicle shall not operate forward-facing red flashing or rotating emergency or warning lights while underway, except as may be expressly authorized or required by law otherwise.

     (2)  It shall be unlawful to install, operate, or use any rotating or flashing light on any motor vehicle except as authorized in this subsection.

Also,  the Arkansas Wing of the Civil Air Patrol became a part of the Arkansas Military Department (along with the State Militia and the National Guard) by the passage of Act 883 of 1981.  The Arkansas Military Department pays a Civil Air Patrol services coordinator who is a state employee and works at Wing Headquarters.  In addition, the Arkansas Department of Emergency Management and the State Emergency Operations Plan lists CAP as the PRIMARY responder for all Air Search and Rescue and a secondary responder for all other emergencies in the state.  We have CAP representatives assigned to the state EOC, so this statute applies as well

12-75-113. Emergency response vehicles.

(a)  Due to the time-critical nature of response to the scene of a disaster or major emergency occurrence, the Director of the Arkansas Department of Emergency Management is authorized to designate appropriate vehicles as requested in the staffing patterns of the state and local offices of emergency services and other state agency vehicles with an emergency service response requirement as emergency response vehicles.

(b)  Designated state and local government emergency response vehicles under this chapter shall share the same privileges and immunities regarding traffic laws and ordinances as other emergency vehicles as defined by state law.

(c)  Emergency vehicles authorized by this chapter shall be identified by a flashing light or rotating beacon which will be green in color.

(d)  When responding to an emergency, the designated emergency vehicle shall have flashing lights or rotating beacon activated and must be equipped with and operating a siren device.

here are the statutes regarding right of way

27-51-901. Operation of vehicles and streetcars on approach of authorized emergency vehicles.

(a)  (1)  Upon the immediate approach of an authorized emergency vehicle, when the driver is giving audible signal by siren, exhaust whistle, or bell, the driver of every other vehicle shall yield the right-of-way and shall immediately drive to a position parallel to, and as close as possible to, the right-hand edge or curb of the highway clear of any intersection and shall stop and remain in such position until the authorized emergency vehicle has passed, except when otherwise directed by a police officer.

     (2)  Upon conviction of violating subdivision (a)(1) of this section, a person is subject to a fine not to exceed four hundred dollars ($400).

(b)  Upon the approach of an authorized emergency vehicle, as stated in subsection (a) of this section, the motorman of every streetcar shall immediately stop the car clear of any intersection and keep it in that position until the authorized emergency vehicle has passed, except when otherwise directed by a police officer.

(c)  This section shall not operate to relieve the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle from the duty to drive with due regard for the safety of all persons using the highway.

27-51-310. Passing emergency response vehicle or law enforcement vehicle stopped on highway.

(a)  (1)  If an authorized emergency response vehicle or a law enforcement vehicle is parked or stopped at the scene of an emergency or other traffic stop and is displaying a flashing, revolving, or rotating blue, red, or amber and red light, an approaching motor vehicle operator shall move when possible into the farthest lane from the emergency response vehicle or law enforcement vehicle and remain in that lane until past the emergency response vehicle or law enforcement vehicle and any other vehicle involved in the stop.

     (2)  If changing lanes is not possible or is determined to be unsafe, an approaching motor vehicle operator shall reduce the motor vehicle's speed, proceed with caution, and maintain a reduced speed, appropriate to the road and the conditions, through the area where the authorized emergency response vehicle or law enforcement vehicle is stopped.

(b)  (1)  (A)  Any party who pleads guilty or nolo contendere to or is found guilty of violating this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be fined not less than thirty-five dollars ($35.00) nor more than five hundred dollars ($500), confined in the county jail not to exceed ninety (90) days, or both fined and imprisoned.

          (B)  In addition to the penalties prescribed in subdivision (b)(1)(A) of this section, the court may order community service for not more than seven (7) days and may suspend the person's driver's license for a period of not less than ninety (90) days nor more than six (6) months.

     (2)  There is created a rebuttable presumption that shall arise in any criminal action under this section to the effect that if it can be proven that a person is the registered owner of a vehicle that is driven in a manner that violates this section, the person is presumed to have been the driver of the vehicle at the time of the violation.


And the whole speed limit thing

27-51-202. Restrictions not applicable to emergency vehicles.

(a)  The prima facie speed limitations set forth in this subchapter shall not apply to authorized emergency vehicles when responding to emergency calls when the driver thereof is operating the vehicle's emergency lights and is also operating an audible signal by bell, siren, or exhaust whistle if other vehicles are present.

(b)  This section shall not relieve the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle from the duty to drive with due regard for the safety of all persons using the street, nor shall it protect the driver of any emergency vehicle from the consequence of a reckless disregard of the safety of others.

(c)  For purposes of this section, "emergency calls" means legitimate emergency situations which call for the operation of an emergency vehicle, including a police vehicle.

stopping for stop signs or red lights

27-49-109. Drivers of authorized emergency vehicles.

(a)  The driver of any authorized emergency vehicle when responding to an emergency call upon approaching a red or stop signal or any stop sign shall slow down as necessary for safety but may proceed cautiously past the red or stop sign or signal. At other times, drivers of authorized emergency vehicles shall stop in obedience to a stop sign or signal.

(b)  No driver of any authorized emergency vehicle shall assume any special privilege under this act except when the vehicle is operated in response to an emergency call or in the immediate pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law.

It is interesting to note however that all CAP owned vehicles are only equiped with amber lights, POV's are a different story, sorry for the long post but it is good information to have

[lordmonar]

I know that in Arkansas, where I grew up, that EMS vehicles could not run red lights...and volunteer firemen could not run red lights.  I know this  because I was a member of a Rural VFD and we got the "don't speed, don't run red lights" safety briefing every week.  Also there was a big fracas where an EMT driver who was responding to an automobile accident (he was the only unit with a "Jaws of life") got stopped for running a red light.  The victim in the car died and the EMT driver drove his rig into the center of a busy intersection, turned on his lights, sirens, opened all the doors and walked away in protest.

This is something I've never understood...  You're an EMT, who'se purpose is to save lives.  Why would a government prohibit you from running red lights / speeding (if you have the necessary training, of course)?  That just doesn't make sense to me...  Kinda defeats the purpose.

Also the same, IMO, for VFD's.  Especially if you're the sole fire protection unit in your area.  You're purpose is to put out fires.  You need to get there fast.  Why the restrictions?

The time you save does not out weigh the danger to you and to by standers.  Heck...even today a lot of police departments do not do "high speed" pursuits anymore because of the danger to by standers (and the lawsuits they generate).

[lordmonar]

CAP235629....they changed the law since last I was living in Ark. (1987).

To everyone else.....please note...that although CAP vehicles in ARK can run red lights and speed.....note that little line about it does not relieve the driver from due regard to safety.  What that means is that if you get in an accident.....we will be sued and we will probably lose.

[flyerthom]

I know that in Arkansas, where I grew up, that EMS vehicles could not run red lights...and volunteer firemen could not run red lights.  I know this  because I was a member of a Rural VFD and we got the "don't speed, don't run red lights" safety briefing every week.  Also there was a big fracas where an EMT driver who was responding to an automobile accident (he was the only unit with a "Jaws of life") got stopped for running a red light.  The victim in the car died and the EMT driver drove his rig into the center of a busy intersection, turned on his lights, sirens, opened all the doors and walked away in protest.

This is something I've never understood...  You're an EMT, who'se purpose is to save lives.  Why would a government prohibit you from running red lights / speeding (if you have the necessary training, of course)?  That just doesn't make sense to me...  Kinda defeats the purpose.

Also the same, IMO, for VFD's.  Especially if you're the sole fire protection unit in your area.  You're purpose is to put out fires.  You need to get there fast.  Why the restrictions?

The reasons are in the links I posted from Michael Montecalvo and Annals of Emergency Medicine . People shouldn't be placed at risk for 43.5 seconds. It's to easy to mess up and take - or lose - a life. That defeats the whole purpose.

[cap235629]

CAP235629....they changed the law since last I was living in Ark. (1987).

To everyone else.....please note...that although CAP vehicles in ARK can run red lights and speed.....note that little line about it does not relieve the driver from due regard to safety.  What that means is that if you get in an accident.....we will be sued and we will probably lose.

Concur completely.

I was just clarifying.........

I personally only have an amber magnetic mount minibar...........

OBTW, this isn't always a safe thing on the side of a road, 12 years as a cop taught me that drunks seem to aim for flashing lights

[mikeylikey]

There is no reason nor is there a need for CAP vehicles to have any lights whatsover.

Other than the "Cool factor", can you cite one good reason to have them.  Will getting to your ELT search 40 seconds quicker actually make a difference?  Most likely not.  Don't forget by the time members assemble for a mission, the mission has already been going on for some time.  CAP is not a first responder service, nor will it ever be. 

If you want lights join a Fire or Police service.

As brought up earlier, can you imagine the repercussions if CAP members had red or blue lights and ran a stoplight and killed someone.  I believe NHQ should publish a change to remove any and all lights from all CAP vehicles now anyway.     

[jb512]

I know that in Arkansas, where I grew up, that EMS vehicles could not run red lights...and volunteer firemen could not run red lights.  I know this  because I was a member of a Rural VFD and we got the "don't speed, don't run red lights" safety briefing every week.  Also there was a big fracas where an EMT driver who was responding to an automobile accident (he was the only unit with a "Jaws of life") got stopped for running a red light.  The victim in the car died and the EMT driver drove his rig into the center of a busy intersection, turned on his lights, sirens, opened all the doors and walked away in protest.

This is something I've never understood...  You're an EMT, who'se purpose is to save lives.  Why would a government prohibit you from running red lights / speeding (if you have the necessary training, of course)?  That just doesn't make sense to me...  Kinda defeats the purpose.

Also the same, IMO, for VFD's.  Especially if you're the sole fire protection unit in your area.  You're purpose is to put out fires.  You need to get there fast.  Why the restrictions?

The time you save does not out weigh the danger to you and to by standers.  Heck...even today a lot of police departments do not do "high speed" pursuits anymore because of the danger to by standers (and the lawsuits they generate).

We do!  Most of our pursuits are high speed, it just depends on other factors involved.  We factor in traffic, time of day, reason for the pursuit, etc.  Just being fast doesn't get ours terminated.

Lawsuits aren't a huge factor anymore (thank goodness) because no matter what you do and as safely as you do it, you're going to get sued no matter what.  We put more emphasis on pretty much the danger to the public vs. the need to get the violator stopped.

I miss the old days when the Texas DPS would hang out the window with a shotgun and shoot at tires...

[SarDragon]

There is no reason nor is there a need for CAP vehicles to have any lights whatsover.

I have a single mag mount rotating yellow light for my 'Burb. I use it mostly when I am on airports doing ramp checks, and am required to have it to cross any active runway. I also use it at night when I'm out  of my vehicle doing DF bearings on ELT signals.

This function has been pointed out before, at least twice, in this discussion.

[BigMojo]

There is no reason nor is there a need for CAP vehicles to have any lights whatsover.

I have a single mag mount rotating yellow light for my 'Burb. I use it mostly when I am on airports doing ramp checks, and am required to have it to cross any active runway. I also use it at night when I'm out  of my vehicle doing DF bearings on ELT signals.

This function has been pointed out before, at least twice, in this discussion.

Exactly...that's all that's needed. You don't need to be seen from space with more amber lights than a construction zone.

[flyerthom]

There is no reason nor is there a need for CAP vehicles to have any lights whatsover.

I have a single mag mount rotating yellow light for my 'Burb. I use it mostly when I am on airports doing ramp checks, and am required to have it to cross any active runway. I also use it at night when I'm out  of my vehicle doing DF bearings on ELT signals.

This function has been pointed out before, at least twice, in this discussion.

Exactly...that's all that's needed. You don't need to be seen from space with more amber lights than a construction zone.

What we need now is Tedda's Swivel Chair Patrol cartoon ...

[RiverAux]

CAP235629....they changed the law since last I was living in Ark. (1987).

To everyone else.....please note...that although CAP vehicles in ARK can run red lights and speed.....note that little line about it does not relieve the driver from due regard to safety.  What that means is that if you get in an accident.....we will be sued and we will probably lose.

I didn't see anything in the statutes quoted that backed that up UNLESS the member from Arkansas is aware of anything in writing from the emergency mgt department designating CAP vehicles as emergency response vehicles.  That would certainly be something. 

[John Bryan]

There is no reason nor is there a need for CAP vehicles to have any lights whatsover.

Other than the "Cool factor", can you cite one good reason to have them.  Will getting to your ELT search 40 seconds quicker actually make a difference?  Most likely not.  Don't forget by the time members assemble for a mission, the mission has already been going on for some time.  CAP is not a first responder service, nor will it ever be. 

If you want lights join a Fire or Police service.

As brought up earlier, can you imagine the repercussions if CAP members had red or blue lights and ran a stoplight and killed someone.  I believe NHQ should publish a change to remove any and all lights from all CAP vehicles now anyway.     

I also see no reason for red lights , etc.....amber I think you can make a case for or against.

BUT as for not being a first responder agency , in most DR cases you are right and in some SAR cases, however in some states we are the 1st on the scene for missing planes and such.  We run the search, find the target , and are first on scene...long before police, fire, EMS or coroner.

[lordmonar]

CAP235629....they changed the law since last I was living in Ark. (1987).

To everyone else.....please note...that although CAP vehicles in ARK can run red lights and speed.....note that little line about it does not relieve the driver from due regard to safety.  What that means is that if you get in an accident.....we will be sued and we will probably lose.

I didn't see anything in the statutes quoted that backed that up UNLESS the member from Arkansas is aware of anything in writing from the emergency mgt department designating CAP vehicles as emergency response vehicles.  That would certainly be something. 

(c)  This section shall not operate to relieve the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle from the duty to drive with due regard for the safety of all persons using the highway.

and

(b)  This section shall not relieve the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle from the duty to drive with due regard for the safety of all persons using the street, nor shall it protect the driver of any emergency vehicle from the consequence of a reckless disregard of the safety of others.

and

(b)  No driver of any authorized emergency vehicle shall assume any special privilege under this act except when the vehicle is operated in response to an emergency call or in the immediate pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law.

From the right of way, speed limit and red light laws.  My read on these is that IF a CAP vehicle were in violation of the normal speed limit, right of way or light signal laws and involved in an accident....any good lawyer could easily win a law suit by using the statistics already posted on this thread. 

The "golden hour" that the EMTs used to live by (do they still teach that?) would not come into play because CAP is usually not even call in for 1-2 hours...even if its a 406 ELT we are looking at 30 minutes before the call goes out to the Ground team.  Add another 30 minutes just to assemble the team....you have lost your golden hour right there.   Back that up with the statstic that full code respoins only saves less than one minute in average response time.  It would take about 30 seconds to show that any violation of the law by a CAP ground team is almost automatically a reckless disregard to "the safety of all persons using the highways".

So...back to my orginal statment.  Yellow rotating beacon....I can see.  Any beacons mandated by state or local laws I can see.  Red/blue/white with sirens and full code response....I just can justify from a safety or liabilty stand point. 

[RiverAux]

From the right of way, speed limit and red light laws. 

Only if the CAP vehicle actually is considered an emergency vehicle.  Nothing that was presented confirms that it would be under any of those laws.

[BillB]

What difference does it make if Arkansas says CAP can run with red lights? CAP Regulations say NO red lights or sirens. Only yellow lights are authorized.  So the CAP Regulation trumps any state laws authorizing blue or red lights on corporate vehicles of POV used for CAP.
Or is this another case of the state law allows it, so we can ignore the CAP reg???

[lordmonar]

From the right of way, speed limit and red light laws. 

Only if the CAP vehicle actually is considered an emergency vehicle.  Nothing that was presented confirms that it would be under any of those laws.

Well even more to the point.  If the vehicle is not an "emergency vehicle" then it must follow all the rules of the road.....which is my main point....even if we are allowed to go full code response we should not for safety and liability issues.

[RiverAux]

What difference does it make if Arkansas says CAP can run with red lights?

It makes a difference if some people get the impression that they can do that and other things under state law, when in fact they can't.  Just playing fact checker. 

[SAR-EMT1]

MAKE IT STOP!
PLEASE....................

[cap235629]

What difference does it make if Arkansas says CAP can run with red lights?

It makes a difference if some people get the impression that they can do that and other things under state law, when in fact they can't.  Just playing fact checker. 

Please look at my posting carefully.  I never said CAP vehicles had red lights and sirens.  ALL CAP vehicles in Arkansas have AMBER lights for safety per regs.

I was just clarifying the law after a statement was made about the laws in arkansas.

There are SOME members in Arkansas who DO in fact have emergency equipment on their POV's.

I AM NOT ONE OF THEM!

I clearly stated that I have an AMBER light for all the reasons stated.

The old cop in me just couldn't let misinformation stand, and I am now sorry I said anything......



PLEASE LOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!