Emergency Vehicle Lights

[Pylon]

I've once heard that SAR organizations can use red/amber combos, anyone heard that rumor?

It would totally depend on the state.  It's something that is controlled on a state level, not federal.  So that may be true somewhere.

However, even if your state said CAP could put sirens and red, yellow, blue, green, white and purple flashing lights on their vehicles, CAP would only allow white and yellow lights and no siren on COVs nonetheless.  

Face it.  99 times out of 100 we're not first responders.  There's training that goes with being the operator of an emergency vehicle, there is much added liability, and it's not worth it to get our members to the command post a few minutes faster.

Why the warning lights are handy is for visibility while already on scene.  A couple of times I wished we had a nice LED amber warning bar on our vans (allowed in NY) and maybe even a yellow arrow-stick on the back just to let other motorists know that we're there and to slow down while going by us where we were working.    Look at it from a visibility standpoint, not from a "can I get to the scene quicker" standpoint.  Who cares what color it is if it keeps your people safe.

White, Amber, both or none is pretty much your options for COVs.

[Sgt. Savage]

Maine says no red or blue, period. Everything else is fine.

[stillamarine]

Here in Michigan, regular tow trucks get the flashy red lights.  For some reason, tow trucks get two red lights on a single bar yet Michigan State Police cars only get one big round red light.

When I was in a volunteer fire dept. in Florida, we were allowed a red light in/on POVs, but we couldn't do more than 9 mph over the speed limit, still had to stop at red lights and stop signs, and other vehicles were not required to move over for us. 

Amber just makes more sense. 

MSP has the bubblegum light because of tradition. They just never wanted to change it. I hear this is starting to change now with them getting the new Chargers though.

Technically in the state of Florida a volunteer FF can have a red light if approved in writing by his chief. BUT you still must obey all traffic laws to include speed limits. Granted most LEOs in our area here will let us slide with 5 or 10 mph over but get caught driving like a bat out of hell and your done.

[Major Lord]

All right ya hoser, let me explain the purpose of the amber lights: You can stop your car on the side of a road or highway, turn on your lights, and keep from being struck by cars. They also make it fairly easy to spot a vehicle from an aircraft. It is pretty much never legal for CAP to run warning lights of any kind while driving. CA requires SAR people to actually have their lights covered while not actually in use....That will really dissapoint the Ricky Rescues... Are you ground team rated? Doing RDF on public streets is a great way to be flattened like a camoflauge pancake....

Capt Lord

[BillB]

In Florida only ambulances, fire trucks and volunteer firemen can have red lights. LEA can have red and blue combined (Red is more visable in daylight) The old law used to say red lights were reserved for "emergency vehicles". Former Governer Hayden Burns signed an executive order authorizing CAP whenon a USAF authorized mission to be considered "emergency Vehicles". But that law was changed within the past few years.
Any vehicle running with yellow lights, as authorized by the National Board, in Florida has no right of way and the lights only indicate caution.

[wacapgh]

Every state is different, so the answer is "It depends..."

I was in the Engineering Dept. of a warning light manufacturer for six years, and we got handed every call to our Order Desk that went "What color light can I put on my ____ ?"

We told them to call their version of the DMV or State Police/Patrol.

No way could we keep up with 50 sets of state laws and administrative codes.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Whoa now.....the Golden Gate Bridge is its own little world!

Smilin' Kach will shortly address a related issue.

[SJFedor]

Can anyone give me a sentient reason WHY C.A.P. has any , even remote reason to have emergency lights of any form on our vehicles, especially corporate vehicles?
The very idea has "Randy Rescue", "Ambulance Chaser" and "Street Squirrel" written all over it.

Hoser

Not so much emergency lights to run with, but like everyone else has said, once you're on the side of a dark road in the middle of the night, on a curve, next to a cliff, it's nice to have something to get someone's attention a little more then the standard 4-ways do.

Although, the state troopers here in TN joke that their blue lights actually attract drunk drivers and other idiots.

[sarmed1]

Use of Emergency Warning lights....ie reds and siren, would be the exception more than the rule for an SAR organization.  Only if a unit has a first due type of response would I even consider it, and thats non-CAP type SAR organizations.  CAP really has no business being in the emergency resposne mode, we are just not set up for that type of call out (our 1 hour or greater from time of notification until units are enroute type of thing)
Clear and Amber are just fine for our look out dont hit me while I am on the side of the road or on the airport property type of operations....

Since as mentioned every state is differatn in its courtesy light laws, I wouldnt go there with CAP as your affiliation, especially since CAP doesnt even go there with its vehicles as emergency vehicles.

Fedor...in PA members of a fire department, ambulance squad or rescue squad are allowed to equip 1 POV with a combination of nor more than 2 blue lights.  1 light is supposed to be visable from 360 degress.  A lightbar is considered 1 light.  a pair of alteranting grill ights is also considered 1 light.  Use of clear lights or use of sirens is not authorized.  A chief, assistant chief or deputy chief of any of those three types of organizations may equip a POV with red and clear lights and may use a siren.  Blue lights are a courtesy light and denote no authority to operate the vehicle outside of the prescribed motor vehicle code. (ie must obey all traffic laws)  POV's with red lights are considered emergency vehicles.  Either way a list of vehicles and authorized operators is supposed to be submitted to the State Police by the chief officer.

[flyguy06]

Can anyone give me a sentient reason WHY C.A.P. has any , even remote reason to have emergency lights of any form on our vehicles, especially corporate vehicles?
The very idea has "Randy Rescue", "Ambulance Chaser" and "Street Squirrel" written all over it.

Hoser

Not so much emergency lights to run with, but like everyone else has said, once you're on the side of a dark road in the middle of the night, on a curve, next to a cliff, it's nice to have something to get someone's attention a little more then the standard 4-ways do.

Although, the state troopers here in TN joke that their blue lights actually attract drunk drivers and other idiots.

Its not a joke.They are correct. many law Enforcement officers have been killed on the side of the road by drunk drivers because they do see the blue lights and it draws the driver closer to it. So, you may NOT want to have flashing lights on your vehicle at night on the side of a road or highway.

[RiverAux]

Another reason to have lights is that every now and again we do take COVs on airport ramps -- its not common, but I think it is a good thing to have, as well as the side of the road, scene mgt scenarios already presented. 

[isuhawkeye]

Iowa has a great lighting program.  All new vehicles get equipped with a double rotting amber light bar, and 2 led amber panels.  all are professionally mounted to the roof.  the rotator is for road side safety, and the led panels point up for aircraft identification.  they are low profile from the sides.  This makes for quick recognition by air crew. 

As far as red lights go.  We have been approached by the state on this topic, but have declined.  Thats just to much for right now.

[SJFedor]

Iowa has a great lighting program.  All new vehicles get equipped with a double rotting amber light bar, and 2 led amber panels.  all are professionally mounted to the roof.  the rotator is for road side safety, and the led panels point up for aircraft identification.  they are low profile from the sides.  This makes for quick recognition by air crew. 

As far as red lights go.  We have been approached by the state on this topic, but have declined.  Thats just to much for right now.

It'd be nice, but CAP really doesn't have too much of a need to run "hot" anywhere, cuz if it's a crashed plane we're responding to, odds are, every other emergency agency within 30 miles is on the way too, just tuck in behind and follow the leader.

If one day it does come that we're allowed to have those lights, even if they do not denote any authority, I think our drivers should be educated heavily on it, as well as completing a modified EVOC course.

[SARMedTech]

Can anyone give me a sentient reason WHY C.A.P. has any , even remote reason to have emergency lights of any form on our vehicles, especially corporate vehicles?
The very idea has "Randy Rescue", "Ambulance Chaser" and "Street Squirrel" written all over it.

Hoser

No, I doubt that they can since even a CAP vehicle on its way to a rendezvous point to begin a SAR sortie has no need to alert people to its presence or get them out of the way, which are the two reasons for having colored lights in the first place. Im EMS, people who install such toys on their vehicles are called "whackers."

[isuhawkeye]

In Iowa the State troopers often use their lights to travel to command posts, and operations bases in the case of emergencies.  Iowa CAP has one of 2 search managers (in the entire state)  recognised by the state troopers.  Our goal is often to get that manager onto the scene in a short amount of time.  Some times our aircraft, or the state partols aircraft are the quickest meens to get to the scene, but more often than not a properly equipped squad car is much much faster,a dn more efficient.  In this case I could see those SAR "Experts" issued red light permits. 

[ZigZag911]

Generally when doing ramp checks or driving through a residential/commercial area at slow speed on a UDF mission we just use the POV's emergency flashers....I believe here in NJ we could also use an amber roof/dash light, solely for visibility purposes.....but we don't, even on COVs.

[SarDragon]

I have noticed that folks pay a lot closer attention to bright flashing strobes than they do to regular POV emergency flashers. I have a set on order to mount in my regular turn signal reflectors - one inch hole in the reflector, mount the light, run the wires, and it's Broadway on wheels. 

[wingnut]

Why Yes

there or those of us who like to dress up like Napolean, prance around, look important, bling bling on the chest, 11 inch CAP stickers on the Ford Focus, Search and Rescue Sign on the chevey van, 10 antenna on the roof,

so why not a light bar, I want flares too!

[capchiro]

Would it not be possible to designate your POV as your Flagship under your Nebraska Navy Admiralty and then use whatever and however many lights as you think necessary to alert others of your presence??  Actually, IIRC, all emergency vehicles and I believe this includes LEO are supposed to run sirens anytime they are running lights.  Way too often this doesn't happen and I see a lot of LEO running with just lights and it is totally stupid.  The siren makes one aware that something is happening and one can begin to look for the lights.  I also see a lot of LEO speeding without lights or siren, which is just as illegal for them as it is for us.  Flame suit on.  Just don't forget you are addressing an Admiral when flaming..

[SARMedTech]

Actually, if your speaking generally and not just about Nebraska, there are given situations in which LEOs or EMS use various combinations of lights and/or sirens depending on the nature of the call and sometimes use none at all but rather get to the scene as fast as they can, and its nothing like illegal. Its kinda dangerous to speak for all states and municipalities just because you may or may not know the laws in your state. For example, when an ambulance is running with a seizure patient on board, you go as fast as you safely can, occasionally using the horn to get folks attention, but L and S are not used because studies have shown that they can trigger another onset generalized seizure in a post-ictal patient.