I am in the process of purchasing packs for my sons NESA Ground Search & Rescue adventure and was wondering if I should purchase an Alice Pack or Molle system. One of my sons likes the Enhanced Modular Chest Rig with Hydration Carrier the other one likes the Alice pack system.
What size Alice packs work for the 24 hr pack?
What size Alice pack work for the 72 hour pack?
Can you put an Hydration Bladder in the Alice pack?
What type of Molle pouch's work best?
Thanks
Couple of threads I found using the search function about this subject. These may or may not help...
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2277.0
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=6908.msg127511#msg127511
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4589.20
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1905.msg31105#msg31105
Some pictures may not work, but I think this MAY help.
Here's one with attachments that may help. http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2448.0
I stopped doing pretty much any "ground" SAR before the 24/72 hr packs became "de rigueur", so my knowledge of "how big is big enough to fit all the crap that CAP says you need in your XX hour pack" is limited, but I have spent a ton of time in the field.
Watch out for really expensive "Gucci" gear. Big $$$ != comfort, fit or capability. It generally indicates namebrand, the amount of work that goes into building that particular piece of gear, or a company that hasn't figured out yet that people won't blow $400 for a pack just cuz its made in Nebraska by downtrodden single mothers...
Stonewall's links are good starts, but also remember that the way a pack *fits* is often radically different from the way it *looks*. And when buying on the Internet, all you can do is go by *looks*.
For my money, anymore, I tend to shy away from the issue stuff. I used to be a big "If it was good enough to issue, its good enough for me" guy. Now, as Stonewall will tell you, I'm the guy who keeps AAFES in business selling all that Blackhawk and Brigade Quartermaster "tactical gee-gaw" they have in clothing sales stores. :) (not really, but go with it)
I wore an ALICE pack from my first one in 1982 up until I got my first "gucci" rucksack in 2008. Yeah, wish I'd made that switch a lot longer ago.
it might be worth a trip to a local surplus store to see whats what. Particularly if its an outdoor adventure & surplus store. They'll likely have some Blackhawk/Brigade/Camelback/etc tactical rucks and ALICE packs with frames, too, so you can try them side-by-side.
And you can stick a hydration bladder in an ALICE ruck, but there no provisions for where the tube goes, so you have to route it outside the flap and such. Its not built for it, in other words.
I personally own a Camelbak BFM and love it.
Quote from: NIN on June 02, 2010, 01:46:02 PM
I personally own a Camelbak BFM and love it.
+1
There is a thread about the BFM somewhere around here. I truly use this for EVERYTHING. Living in FL I don't need a large ALICE pack anymore since I don't carry the bigger
fart sack sleeping bag. Even for the Air Force I have yet to need anything more than the BFM.
It is all up to what you like to wear, and what fits your style. As long as you can get all of your items in a pack and can get to them I am sure it will be ok. I do like to molle and am working on getting a pack together right now. I have another vest that is done but might change....
Quote from: Stonewall on June 02, 2010, 02:02:11 PM
Quote from: NIN on June 02, 2010, 01:46:02 PM
I personally own a Camelbak BFM and love it.
+1
+2
I love the BFM and it makes a great 72 hr pack. It fits my CamelBak Hawg (24hr gear) plus all my 72 gear, and it is very comfortable. That being said... At NESA you pretty much just carry your 72's about 100 meters at a time. So if you are short on money or it could be better used somewhere else, the $140 BFM might not be needed right now.
Gearzone Products (http://www.gearzoneproducts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1937) Is the cheapest place I have found it and they are a good company (That I have no affiliation with other then buying from) to deal with.
5.11 Tactical makes a couple of "Responder" packs, one of which I own. It's a solid pack and the 24-hour version (which I believe I can actually fit my 72 into) is only $99, and has MOLLE straps for extra packs.
They have both of those in red too... Remember that from the task guide?:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=539931
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=539925
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=539932
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=539926
Quote from: Polecat on June 02, 2010, 05:21:26 PM
At NESA you pretty much just carry your 72's about 100 meters at a time. So if you are short on money or it could be better used somewhere else, the $140 BFM might not be needed right now.
Probably the case with the 72 hour pack most of the time within CAP in any case. Get good 24 hour gear, but the "pack" might as well be a duffel bag.
Quote from: MIKE on June 06, 2010, 01:58:19 PM
They have both of those in red too... Remember that from the task guide?:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=539931
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=539925
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=539932
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=539926
Yup, I own the red one.
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on June 06, 2010, 08:26:23 AM
5.11 Tactical makes a couple of "Responder" packs, one of which I own. It's a solid pack and the 24-hour version (which I believe I can actually fit my 72 into) is only $99, and has MOLLE straps for extra packs.
I like the looks of this. For the guys that own one: is it sewn well? So often I see packs that look good and then the sewing on the straps sucks and it rips in a few months. How about the insides - easy to organize?
Quote from: snpotratz on June 07, 2010, 03:57:10 AM
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on June 06, 2010, 08:26:23 AM
5.11 Tactical makes a couple of "Responder" packs, one of which I own. It's a solid pack and the 24-hour version (which I believe I can actually fit my 72 into) is only $99, and has MOLLE straps for extra packs.
I like the looks of this. For the guys that own one: is it sewn well? So often I see packs that look good and then the sewing on the straps sucks and it rips in a few months. How about the insides - easy to organize?
I havn't had it long enough to attest to the quality of the sewing but it appears to be solid and it uses YKK zippers. As for the insides, there's not much to say. Some mesh pockets and other misc utility pockets. Most of your gear will be in plastic bags anyways. When I finish final assembly of my NESA gear I'll try to take some pics and post them.
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on June 06, 2010, 08:26:23 AM
When I finish final assembly of my NESA gear I'll try to take some pics and post them.
I'd love to see that, thanks.
Without further ado... Drumroll 5.11 Tactical Responder 24 pictures.
(http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae153/rstalets/Responder%2024%20Photos/IMG_0047.jpg)
This is a photo of my "SAR Kit", minus a few things that are rolling around in the trunk of my car which is in the shop. Basically, it's my 24 hour gear plus the things I will need to pack in to convert it to 72 hour, as well as things I would need to "rapid deploy" (i.e. walk out of Wal-Mart and be ready to drive to mission base) such as uniform, boots, etc. I should be able to accomplish this with creative packing, but I'm not positive. I'm also looking into MOLLE attachments to accomplish this.
(http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae153/rstalets/Responder%2024%20Photos/IMG_0048.jpg)
(http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae153/rstalets/Responder%2024%20Photos/IMG_0058.jpg)
Note the space for a water pack. This is not included, and I would recommend spending a little on this. The particular one I have has a support which prevents the bladder from collapsing on itself as you consume water.
(http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae153/rstalets/Responder%2024%20Photos/IMG_0050.jpg)
(http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae153/rstalets/Responder%2024%20Photos/IMG_0053.jpg)
(http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae153/rstalets/Responder%2024%20Photos/IMG_0051.jpg)
(http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae153/rstalets/Responder%2024%20Photos/IMG_0052.jpg)
(http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae153/rstalets/Responder%2024%20Photos/IMG_0059.jpg)
(http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae153/rstalets/Responder%2024%20Photos/IMG_0055.jpg)
(http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae153/rstalets/Responder%2024%20Photos/IMG_0056.jpg)
(http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae153/rstalets/Responder%2024%20Photos/IMG_0060.jpg)
(http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae153/rstalets/Responder%2024%20Photos/IMG_0061.jpg)
(http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae153/rstalets/Responder%2024%20Photos/IMG_0063.jpg)
(http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae153/rstalets/Responder%2024%20Photos/IMG_0064.jpg)
(http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae153/rstalets/Responder%2024%20Photos/IMG_0066.jpg)
(http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae153/rstalets/Responder%2024%20Photos/IMG_0067.jpg)
(http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae153/rstalets/Responder%2024%20Photos/IMG_0068.jpg)
Oh I'm sold! Thank you!!
Quote from: snpotratz on June 10, 2010, 02:33:18 AM
Oh I'm sold! Thank you!!
You're welcome, make sure they know where to send the commission check >:D
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on June 09, 2010, 10:11:18 PM
Without further ado... Drumroll 5.11 Tactical Responder 24 pictures.
...
I LIKE that. 5.11 rocks.