What is the purpose of the Cessna 206's at CAP?

Started by jfkspotting, June 17, 2017, 07:08:59 PM

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sardak

#20
Here are stats for sorties of 3 hours or longer for primary missions, certainly not all CAP flying. These are for January to mid-June, 2017.


Mission   Air Sorties   Sorties >= 3.0 hrs   % Sorties >= 3.0 hrs    Longest sortie hrs
HLS   435   135   31%   4.8  C182/G1000
SAR   404   80   20%   5.8  C182/G1000
DR   137   15   11%   4.8  C172/G1000
Total   976   230   24%
The long sorties by region
SWR  130 (92 of these are on one on-going mission, 27 are on another)
PCR  35
MER  23
NCR  14
NER  11
GLR    7
RMR   7
SER   3

Does not include one sortie of 8.9 hours (as recorded in WMIRS) by a 206. Probably equipped with the Total Force BuddyTM Air-to-Air Refueling kit.

Mike

Eclipse

#21
How the heck did they squeeze 5.8 out of a glass 182?  Assuming that's right, it had to either be
flown by tiny Elvis or they came in on fumes. Depending on speed, that wold seem to exceed the range
by 20-40%.



That 8.9 has to be a mistake, right? That's about 150% of the range of a 206 according to interwebs.


"That Others May Zoom"

Luis R. Ramos

That 5+ hour sortie flew with only two people and an auxiliary gas tank in lieu of the third?

Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

Live2Learn

Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on June 23, 2017, 12:33:54 PM
That 5+ hour sortie flew with only two people and an auxiliary gas tank in lieu of the third?

and was equipped with Pee tube, microwave, refrigerator, and fax (to request signed authorization to greatly exceed the crew flight hour limitation as well as exceptions to relevant safety rules).  :)

jayleswo

Quote from: Eclipse on June 23, 2017, 03:10:17 AM
How the heck did they squeeze 5.8 out of a glass 182?  Assuming that's right, it had to either be
flown by tiny Elvis or they came in on fumes. Depending on speed, that wold seem to exceed the range
by 20-40%.

You could totally do it, physiological issues aside, depending on the mission profile. If it was a transport sortie (perhaps to get to a mission base for a SAR or highbird or something). At altitude, lean it out and use low power settings. Performance charts for 55% power at 10,000 feet standard temperature you're burning 10 gph. With full tanks  (87g) and a skinny crew your endurance would be 8.7 hours - 1.0 hour reserve - (4.6 gals in the climb and 1.1 for taxi so call it 0.5 hours) ~ 7 hours. This is flight time. Most of the time in WMIRS reports would be Hobbs time so 5.8 Hobbs would be closer to 5.3 or so of Tach (equivalent to flying) time. Longest sortie I've flown in a (round dial) 182 is 5.0 and it gets uncomfortable... -- John
John Aylesworth, Lt Col CAP

SAR/DR MP, Mission Check Pilot Examiner, Master Observer
Earhart #1139 FEB 1982

PHall

Quote from: jayleswo on June 23, 2017, 04:36:18 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on June 23, 2017, 03:10:17 AM
How the heck did they squeeze 5.8 out of a glass 182?  Assuming that's right, it had to either be
flown by tiny Elvis or they came in on fumes. Depending on speed, that wold seem to exceed the range
by 20-40%.

You could totally do it, physiological issues aside, depending on the mission profile. If it was a transport sortie (perhaps to get to a mission base for a SAR or highbird or something). At altitude, lean it out and use low power settings. Performance charts for 55% power at 10,000 feet standard temperature you're burning 10 gph. With full tanks  (87g) and a skinny crew your endurance would be 8.7 hours - 1.0 hour reserve - (4.6 gals in the climb and 1.1 for taxi so call it 0.5 hours) ~ 7 hours. This is flight time. Most of the time in WMIRS reports would be Hobbs time so 5.8 Hobbs would be closer to 5.3 or so of Tach (equivalent to flying) time. Longest sortie I've flown in a (round dial) 182 is 5.0 and it gets uncomfortable... -- John


Two words, Brief Relief. Google it.

etodd

Quote from: PHall on June 23, 2017, 06:30:46 PM


Two words, Brief Relief. Google it.

I prefer the Travel Johns. Really helps on flights I do outside of CAP where I'm often flying 3-4 hours:

http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/travel-john-pack-of-18.html
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

PHall

Quote from: etodd on June 23, 2017, 07:06:57 PM
Quote from: PHall on June 23, 2017, 06:30:46 PM


Two words, Brief Relief. Google it.

I prefer the Travel Johns. Really helps on flights I do outside of CAP where I'm often flying 3-4 hours:

http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/travel-john-pack-of-18.html

Brief Reliefs are just about spill proof and they seal. We at AT&T use them a lot!

etodd

Quote from: PHall on June 23, 2017, 09:00:32 PM
Quote from: etodd on June 23, 2017, 07:06:57 PM
Quote from: PHall on June 23, 2017, 06:30:46 PM


Two words, Brief Relief. Google it.

I prefer the Travel Johns. Really helps on flights I do outside of CAP where I'm often flying 3-4 hours:

http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/travel-john-pack-of-18.html

Brief Reliefs are just about spill proof and they seal. We at AT&T use them a lot!

Yep. Same with the travel johns I linked. Pee in one and you can turn it upside down and no spill.
Totally absorbs it all. :)
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

Eclipse

OK, this is productive.

In the last week we've identified >two< things to never, ever do.

Ever.

"That Others May Zoom"

etodd

Quote from: Eclipse on June 24, 2017, 12:44:45 AM
OK, this is productive.

In the last week we've identified >two< things to never, ever do.

Ever.

I guess I've missed it. What are the two things?
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

Nick

Quote from: Eclipse on June 20, 2017, 03:18:40 AM
A fair point, but hopefully the Wing DO isn't tracking airframe utilization on CAPTalk.  If it's under utilized yet still assigned there,
there's generally a good reason, which a lot of times is political.

With the above said, JFK, just because >you< don't see it used, doesn't mean it's used.  Unless you're out there chalking the
tire like a meter maid, it's very likley most of the flight hours are happening during times when you're not around.

A lot of people would be pretty shocked to know just how much flying happens week mid-week during business hours.

Yeah.  The plane's had 125 hours this FY; I think it's reasonably utilized.
Nicholas McLarty, Lt Col, CAP
Texas Wing Staff Guy
National Cadet Team Guy Emeritus

Live2Learn

Quote from: Nick on June 24, 2017, 01:57:29 AM

Yeah.  The plane's had 125 hours this FY; I think it's reasonably utilized.

125 hours seems pretty low.  How many pilots are available to fly the aircraft?

SarDragon

125 hours is great if the plane spends 5 months in maintenance during the fiscal year.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Spaceman3750

Quote from: SarDragon on June 24, 2017, 11:46:13 PM
125 hours is great if the plane spends 5 months in maintenance during the fiscal year.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

This. Never underestimate the power of the mechanic to disrupt your dreams of 200 hours.

Live2Learn

might be time to surplus this particular aircraft.

Eclipse

Quote from: Live2Learn on June 26, 2017, 06:49:05 PM
might be time to surplus this particular aircraft.

Unfortunately these kinds of maintenance times are not all that uncommon.  Over the last couple of years
my wing has had at least a couple aircraft that wound up being MX hangar queens for most of the respective FY
because of either parts availability, the complexity of the repair, or a combination of the two coupled with
NHQ expense approvals or a mishap report.

"That Others May Zoom"

NIN

Quote from: Eclipse on June 26, 2017, 07:04:40 PM
Quote from: Live2Learn on June 26, 2017, 06:49:05 PM
might be time to surplus this particular aircraft.

Unfortunately these kinds of maintenance times are not all that uncommon.  Over the last couple of years
my wing has had at least a couple aircraft that wound up being MX hangar queens for most of the respective FY
because of either parts availability, the complexity of the repair, or a combination of the two coupled with
NHQ expense approvals or a mishap report.

That 206 ain't that old.  We'll put beaucoup hrs on it :)
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Briank

Quote from: Eclipse on June 26, 2017, 07:04:40 PM
Unfortunately these kinds of maintenance times are not all that uncommon.  Over the last couple of years
my wing has had at least a couple aircraft that wound up being MX hangar queens for most of the respective FY
because of either parts availability, the complexity of the repair, or a combination of the two coupled with
NHQ expense approvals or a mishap report.

In the short time my Group had an airplane it seemed like it was gone for maintenance more than it was available.  That's just how it goes sometimes.  Airplanes are very maintenance intensive. 2 is 1, etc, etc...

amirhamzeh.cap

Quote from: Nick on June 24, 2017, 01:57:29 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on June 20, 2017, 03:18:40 AM
A fair point, but hopefully the Wing DO isn't tracking airframe utilization on CAPTalk.  If it's under utilized yet still assigned there,
there's generally a good reason, which a lot of times is political.

With the above said, JFK, just because >you< don't see it used, doesn't mean it's used.  Unless you're out there chalking the
tire like a meter maid, it's very likley most of the flight hours are happening during times when you're not around.

A lot of people would be pretty shocked to know just how much flying happens week mid-week during business hours.

Yeah.  The plane's had 125 hours this FY; I think it's reasonably utilized.


Are we both talking about 51X? What squadron are you from?


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