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Air Police

Started by Nikos, November 28, 2015, 11:40:27 PM

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Nikos

I always wondered if the Air Police that guard the Air Force Bases are the same Air Police that guard the nuclear weapons on the Base?  Or, are the nuclear weapons security people a separate security force?

THRAWN

Strup-"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
USMC CSCDEP 2023

abdsp51

Yep.  Air Police has not been used in a very long time. 

But yes Security Forces in the USAF perform the Law Enforcement, Force Protection, and Nuclear assessment security for the USAF while the assets are in the USAF inventory.  Nuclear Security outside of the DOD falls on the DOE to perform. 

THRAWN

We used to play with sky cops a lot in NJ. The ABGD guys would come helps us with land nav from time to time...always thought it was one of the most misunderstood career fields.
Strup-"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
USMC CSCDEP 2023

kwe1009

Quote from: Nikos on November 28, 2015, 11:40:27 PM
I always wondered if the Air Police that guard the Air Force Bases are the same Air Police that guard the nuclear weapons on the Base?  Or, are the nuclear weapons security people a separate security force?

There is a single Security Forces career field in the Air Force so they guard both.

abdsp51

Quote from: THRAWN on November 29, 2015, 12:39:31 AM
We used to play with sky cops a lot in NJ. The ABGD guys would come helps us with land nav from time to time...always thought it was one of the most misunderstood career fields.

Try being a log planner.  No one outside the field really has clue about what we do.   Anyway yes defenders are considered the red headed step children of the AF.  Very few understand thd field in it's entirety, and very few have the gusto to do he job.

lordmonar

Quote from: abdsp51 on November 29, 2015, 03:24:13 AMand very few have the gusto to do he job.
And most of us are too smart for the job.   >:D
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

abdsp51

Quote from: lordmonar on November 29, 2015, 08:28:57 AM
Quote from: abdsp51 on November 29, 2015, 03:24:13 AMand very few have the gusto to do he job.
And most of us are too smart for the job.   >:D

Some of the smartest folks in the AF I know are cops...

Flying Pig

I did the same job, only in the Marines at Navy installations.  Very cool mission when you think about what you are actually doing.  Good training.  But overall its pretty boring, as it should be.  But boring regardless.....

PHall

Quote from: abdsp51 on November 29, 2015, 12:11:50 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on November 29, 2015, 08:28:57 AM
Quote from: abdsp51 on November 29, 2015, 03:24:13 AMand very few have the gusto to do he job.
And most of us are too smart for the job.   >:D

Some of the smartest folks in the AF I know are cops...

And some of the dumbest people I've met in the Air Force were cops.

It's a big career field that needs lots of bodies and Lackland doesn't do them any favors.

goblin

I got stopped on base a few weeks ago. A1C cop tells me "sir, you need to make sure all 4 wheels come to a stop at a stop sign". I politely asked him how it was possible that one or two wheels could keep spinning. He offered up a confused look and a warning.


abdsp51

Quote from: PHall on November 29, 2015, 03:46:18 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on November 29, 2015, 12:11:50 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on November 29, 2015, 08:28:57 AM
Quote from: abdsp51 on November 29, 2015, 03:24:13 AMand very few have the gusto to do he job.
And most of us are too smart for the job.   >:D

Some of the smartest folks in the AF I know are cops...

And some of the dumbest people I've met in the Air Force were cops.

It's a big career field that needs lots of bodies and Lackland doesn't do them any favors.

Easy now I can say the same about members who wear bags....


PHall

Quote from: abdsp51 on November 29, 2015, 07:20:05 PM
Quote from: PHall on November 29, 2015, 03:46:18 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on November 29, 2015, 12:11:50 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on November 29, 2015, 08:28:57 AM
Quote from: abdsp51 on November 29, 2015, 03:24:13 AMand very few have the gusto to do he job.
And most of us are too smart for the job.   >:D

Some of the smartest folks in the AF I know are cops...

And some of the dumbest people I've met in the Air Force were cops.

It's a big career field that needs lots of bodies and Lackland doesn't do them any favors.

Easy now I can say the same about members who wear bags....

You don't want to go there... >:D

abdsp51

Quote from: PHall on November 29, 2015, 08:31:30 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on November 29, 2015, 07:20:05 PM
Quote from: PHall on November 29, 2015, 03:46:18 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on November 29, 2015, 12:11:50 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on November 29, 2015, 08:28:57 AM
Quote from: abdsp51 on November 29, 2015, 03:24:13 AMand very few have the gusto to do he job.
And most of us are too smart for the job.   >:D

Some of the smartest folks in the AF I know are cops...

And some of the dumbest people I've met in the Air Force were cops.

It's a big career field that needs lots of bodies and Lackland doesn't do them any favors.

Easy now I can say the same about members who wear bags....

You don't want to go there... >:D

Just saying >:D

kwe1009

Not sure how things are now but for many years it was very difficult to get a guaranteed job as Security Forces because most of the slots whet to people who came in Open General and didn't have very good ASVAB scores.  It was cheaper for the AF to keep those with low ASVABs at Lackland in case they washed out instead of sending them to another base and paying for that travel.  My tech school was at Lackland too and we all knew that we either passed or we became cops.  That was pretty good incentive since I didn't really enjoy the idea of guarding planes or missiles in the snow.

Stonewall

Click here for a video of Security Forces assigned to protect nukes conduct some training.
Serving since 1987.

Flying Pig

Based on what I've read here, I'm surprised you were able to post that without using crayons >:D

Flying Pig

Without getting into to much, although where I was stationed closed several years ago, the amount of fire power and heavy caliber machine guns we had to protect a rather small area was fairly impressive I thought. 

A .12 gauge shotgun with a bayonet is still probably one of the coolest things I've ever carried :)

Stonewall

Yeah, here's a pic of me in Afghanistan not standing at a gate or writing tickets.  In fact, as a Defender, I've never written a ticket.



The cool thing about Security Forces is that you can do everything or you can be absolutely miserable; which 9 times out of 10 is self-inflicted.

I happen to disagree with the career field merging in the 1990s from two separate careers (law enforcement and security).  I think the Air Force did the career field a disservice by expecting the largest enlisted career field in the Air Force to be jacks of all trades.  You can graduate tech school and go to an Air Base Defense Squadron/Group where you do nothing but training for deployments and deploy (lots of schools in this area), or you can get shipped off to a large base and do nothing but law enforcement patrol.  Then there's nuke security, which has a very low likelihood of getting involved in anything unless there is a catastrophic breakdown and the world is under siege, but those nuke guys get A LOT of awesome training and support.

Some parts to the career field some don't realize exist:

- Combat Arms Training and Maintenance (CATM) - firearms instructors and expert amrorers.

- K-9 Handler, but narcotics and bomb dogs.

- Raven and DAGRE - aircraft security for USAF AMC (Raven) or AFSOC (DAGRE) headed to austere and non-secure locations.

- Military Police Investigations

- Special Response Team (SRT) - AF's version of a SWAT team.  I could post some pics and you wouldn't know the difference between them and a civilian SWAT team.

- Standard law enforcement duties - think patrolling, writing tickets, investigating accidents, etc.

- Nuclear security - you secure the nation's most lethal assets, period.  See video I posted a few above this post.

- Contingency Response Group (CRG) - is the AF's "quick response" assets that consists of engineers, commo dudes, and a huge contingent of Security Forces.  These guys are jump qualified, many graduate air assault school, and a number of other non-traditional schools usually exclusive to the Army.  These guys deploy on short-notice missions to anywhere in the world and can secure an air field in advance of larger forces.

Schools USAF Defenders can attend:
- Close Precision Engagement Course (CPEC) - AF's version of sniper school
- Advanced Designated Marksman Course - A little less intense than CPEC and used for LP/OP positions and overwatch.
- Integrated Defense, Command and Control School - big picture C2 course for Defenders
- Combat Leaders Course - an intense 6 week advanced combat tactics course (must be E5/SSgt)
- Airborne School
- Air Assault School
- Ranger School
- Electronic Security Systems
- Protective Services and Anti-Terrorism Driving (think close protection/body guard stuff)
- Military Police Investigations - intense 8 week investigations course
- Tactical Driving Operations Course
- Raven School
- DAGRE School
- K9 Handler
- Combat Arms Instructor
- Security Engineering Course
- Anti-Terrorism Courses

And a countless other joint-service, civilian, federal, and private sector courses.

But those who complain about the career field are usually those that thought they'd be "cops" or failed out of PJ/CCT, and blame everyone but themselves for where they ended up.

Yes, you will likely stand a gate at some point, but if you lack potential, drive, and ambition, your time on a gate will be much longer than it should. 

I have a friend, A TSgt, who just left the Andrews AFB SRT (SWAT) and is now at a USAF Special Operations detachment where part of his pre-deployment train-up included letting his facial hair grow.  What is he doing?  I have no idea, but even the "cool guys' aircraft" need security.
Serving since 1987.

abdsp51

Quote from: Stonewall on November 30, 2015, 03:09:51 AM
Yeah, here's a pic of me in Afghanistan not standing at a gate or writing tickets.  In fact, as a Defender, I've never written a ticket.



The cool thing about Security Forces is that you can do everything or you can be absolutely miserable; which 9 times out of 10 is self-inflicted.

I happen to disagree with the career field merging in the 1990s from two separate careers (law enforcement and security).  I think the Air Force did the career field a disservice by expecting the largest enlisted career field in the Air Force to be jacks of all trades.  You can graduate tech school and go to an Air Base Defense Squadron/Group where you do nothing but training for deployments and deploy (lots of schools in this area), or you can get shipped off to a large base and do nothing but law enforcement patrol.  Then there's nuke security, which has a very low likelihood of getting involved in anything unless there is a catastrophic breakdown and the world is under siege, but those nuke guys get A LOT of awesome training and support.

Some parts to the career field some don't realize exist:

- Combat Arms Training and Maintenance (CATM) - firearms instructors and expert amrorers.

- K-9 Handler, but narcotics and bomb dogs.

- Raven and DAGRE - aircraft security for USAF AMC (Raven) or AFSOC (DAGRE) headed to austere and non-secure locations.

- Military Police Investigations

- Special Response Team (SRT) - AF's version of a SWAT team.  I could post some pics and you wouldn't know the difference between them and a civilian SWAT team.

- Standard law enforcement duties - think patrolling, writing tickets, investigating accidents, etc.

- Nuclear security - you secure the nation's most lethal assets, period.  See video I posted a few above this post.

- Contingency Response Group (CRG) - is the AF's "quick response" assets that consists of engineers, commo dudes, and a huge contingent of Security Forces.  These guys are jump qualified, many graduate air assault school, and a number of other non-traditional schools usually exclusive to the Army.  These guys deploy on short-notice missions to anywhere in the world and can secure an air field in advance of larger forces.

Schools USAF Defenders can attend:
- Close Precision Engagement Course (CPEC) - AF's version of sniper school
- Advanced Designated Marksman Course - A little less intense than CPEC and used for LP/OP positions and overwatch.
- Integrated Defense, Command and Control School - big picture C2 course for Defenders
- Combat Leaders Course - an intense 6 week advanced combat tactics course (must be E5/SSgt)
- Airborne School
- Air Assault School
- Ranger School
- Electronic Security Systems
- Protective Services and Anti-Terrorism Driving (think close protection/body guard stuff)
- Military Police Investigations - intense 8 week investigations course
- Tactical Driving Operations Course
- Raven School
- DAGRE School
- K9 Handler
- Combat Arms Instructor
- Security Engineering Course
- Anti-Terrorism Courses

And a countless other joint-service, civilian, federal, and private sector courses.

But those who complain about the career field are usually those that thought they'd be "cops" or failed out of PJ/CCT, and blame everyone but themselves for where they ended up.

Yes, you will likely stand a gate at some point, but if you lack potential, drive, and ambition, your time on a gate will be much longer than it should. 

I have a friend, A TSgt, who just left the Andrews AFB SRT (SWAT) and is now at a USAF Special Operations detachment where part of his pre-deployment train-up included letting his facial hair grow.  What is he doing?  I have no idea, but even the "cool guys' aircraft" need security.

:clap: :clap: :)

My last few years in I worked close with OSI and off base folks on stuff.  :)  in 2007 outside of OSI I had the highest drug seizure for the installation. 

SarDragon

Quote from: Goblin on November 29, 2015, 04:35:48 PM
I got stopped on base a few weeks ago. A1C cop tells me "sir, you need to make sure all 4 wheels come to a stop at a stop sign". I politely asked him how it was possible that one or two wheels could keep spinning. He offered up a confused look and a warning.

I was driving in snow this past weekend. It's certainly possible under those conditions.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Private Investigator

Quote from: Stonewall on November 30, 2015, 03:09:51 AM
Yeah, here's a pic of me in Afghanistan not standing at a gate or writing tickets.  In fact, as a Defender, I've never written a ticket.



The cool thing about Security Forces is that you can do everything or you can be absolutely miserable; which 9 times out of 10 is self-inflicted.

Thank you for sharing.  8)

Private Investigator

Quote from: PHall on November 29, 2015, 03:46:18 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on November 29, 2015, 12:11:50 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on November 29, 2015, 08:28:57 AM
Quote from: abdsp51 on November 29, 2015, 03:24:13 AMand very few have the gusto to do he job.
And most of us are too smart for the job.   >:D

Some of the smartest folks in the AF I know are cops...

And some of the dumbest people I've met in the Air Force were cops.

It's a big career field that needs lots of bodies and Lackland doesn't do them any favors.

I agree with Phil. In the Marines we had a lot of dummies in the Military Police otherwise how else did I get "Military Policeman of the Year", twice.  ;)

abdsp51

Quote from: Private Investigator on November 30, 2015, 06:53:53 AM
Quote from: PHall on November 29, 2015, 03:46:18 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on November 29, 2015, 12:11:50 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on November 29, 2015, 08:28:57 AM
Quote from: abdsp51 on November 29, 2015, 03:24:13 AMand very few have the gusto to do he job.
And most of us are too smart for the job.   >:D

Some of the smartest folks in the AF I know are cops...

And some of the dumbest people I've met in the Air Force were cops.

It's a big career field that needs lots of bodies and Lackland doesn't do them any favors.

I agree with Phil. In the Marines we had a lot of dummies in the Military Police otherwise how else did I get "Military Policeman of the Year", twice.  ;)

Maybe.  But for every dumb cop I can show at least 2 dumb mx/ac/med etc...

goblin

Quote from: SarDragon on November 30, 2015, 04:48:54 AM
Quote from: Goblin on November 29, 2015, 04:35:48 PM
I got stopped on base a few weeks ago. A1C cop tells me "sir, you need to make sure all 4 wheels come to a stop at a stop sign". I politely asked him how it was possible that one or two wheels could keep spinning. He offered up a confused look and a warning.

I was driving in snow this past weekend. It's certainly possible under those conditions.

I don't think that's what he was getting at, especially at MacDill

Luis R. Ramos

Some of you are referring to military police as dumb, or disparaging them...

My only encounter with a military cop?    :clap: :clap: :clap:

And I was in the wrong!!!

I was at West Point, and I did a u-turn... on a yellow line which I did not see. A few car lengths away an MP in his patrol car saw me, he yelled at me. I apologized said I did not see it, and he just let me go with a warning. no ticket, nothing. He could have stopped me easily as I turned towards him. He could have let me wait some time, or give me a ticket.

On the other hand, when I saw them give out tickets was when drivers had parked cars by the post Flag staff when they were to have Retreat or Revellie at the USMA. Times when there were supposed to be no cars there as they needed all the space to work up or down the Post Colors.

To those guys that were ticketed then, it was clearly posted. Do not yell at those MP, they were doing their jobs. You put them in peril when you left your car there...
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

winterg

I think peril may be a bit strong of a word.  Haha

I was one of those that wanted to be an Air Force cop on active.  I was a crew chief and tried twice to change my AFSC but was told that crew chiefs were priority fields and not allowed to move out at that time.

Flying Pig

Its overall pretty lame to insult a particular job regardless of what it is.  The great thing about the military is there is pretty much something for everyone.  In particular with the USAF, nuclear security would be a great way to train up and get the credibility for someone wanting to later get into LE or high end security fields.  I had a great time as Marine Security Forces (separate MOS from MPs completely)  At 19-20yrs old I was able to see some pretty interesting things.  Ill admit, as a 19yr old E-3, its pretty crazy to be about 50' feet from a Boomer with an M240G machine-gun as they are pulling the missiles out of the tubes and loading them in 18 wheelers.  I quite frankly wasnt the slightest bit concerned with learning a job skill for civilian life. When I joined I wanted to paint myself green and carry a machine-gun.  And thats pretty much what I did.  Now.... if only the rest of you could aspire to such greatness! >:D

LSThiker

Quote from: Flying Pig on December 01, 2015, 01:52:10 PM
Its overall pretty lame to insult a particular job regardless of what it is.

The infantry and infantry support (the rest of the Army) may like to mock the medical branch for being too easy, but when they are bleeding out, guess who they call first?    :)

Flying Pig

As a grunt, I always made fun of cooks... .I had a buddy who was a cook and we got into it one night (all in good fun) while on deployment.  A while later, we come back from a week in the field and make it in just in time for the chow hall.  Every once in a while they would serve breakfast all day.  French toast and omelets to order.  I think it was training for the new cooks.... I dunno....  So that night Im making my way through the omelet line.  He steps in and relieves the PFC who was on the griddle as I walk up and says in a smart a-- voice  "Well Well Well..... look whose come to apologize.  I knew you'd come crawling in eventually"   >:D  Dude made me a great omelet....after I said I was sorry.  He caught me crossing my fingers too. 

Stonewall

Quote from: LSThiker on December 01, 2015, 03:50:37 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on December 01, 2015, 01:52:10 PM
Its overall pretty lame to insult a particular job regardless of what it is.

The infantry and infantry support (the rest of the Army) may like to mock the medical branch for being too easy, but when they are bleeding out, guess who they call first?    :)

A combat medic.
Serving since 1987.

LSThiker

Quote from: Stonewall on December 01, 2015, 04:53:17 PM
Quote from: LSThiker on December 01, 2015, 03:50:37 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on December 01, 2015, 01:52:10 PM
Its overall pretty lame to insult a particular job regardless of what it is.

The infantry and infantry support (the rest of the Army) may like to mock the medical branch for being too easy, but when they are bleeding out, guess who they call first?    :)

A combat medic.

Which belong to AMEDD :)

Flying Pig

Real men scream "Corpsman!"   >:D

THRAWN

Quote from: Flying Pig on December 01, 2015, 06:38:41 PM
Real men scream "Corpsman!"   >:D

And real men come running...
Strup-"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
USMC CSCDEP 2023

Brit_in_CAP

Quote from: Flying Pig on December 01, 2015, 01:52:10 PM
When I joined I wanted to paint myself green and carry a machine-gun.  And thats pretty much what I did.  Now.... if only the rest of you could aspire to such greatness! >:D

Back in my RAF days I had friends in MSF, on our airbase.  Great fun to be around, and cool gear, compared to ours.  They loaned us M16s with MILES equipment and spent a day training with us to help improve our effectiveness as Immediate Reaction Force; we were all Techs, and that was our "war task" as there was no RAF Regiment based with us.  My first intro to the USMC.  Their job could get boring for sure, standing guard in towers at the facility but it had its moments, apparently, as they all seemed to enjoy the tour.

MSG Mac

Quote from: LSThiker on December 01, 2015, 03:50:37 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on December 01, 2015, 01:52:10 PM
Its overall pretty lame to insult a particular job regardless of what it is.

The infantry and infantry support (the rest of the Army) may like to mock the medical branch for being too easy, but when they are bleeding out, guess who they call first?    :)

I knew a navy corpsman who was given 30 days in the brig for an infraction. Because they were short of medical personnel he was still working sick call during the day. Whenever a brig guard came in for a shot, he made sure the vaccine was fresh from the refrigerator  and had the consistency of glue. Moral: Don't mess with the Doc!
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

LSThiker

Quote from: MSG Mac on December 01, 2015, 07:31:39 PM
I knew a navy corpsman who was given 30 days in the brig for an infraction. Because they were short of medical personnel he was still working sick call during the day. Whenever a brig guard came in for a shot, he made sure the vaccine was fresh from the refrigerator  and had the consistency of glue. Moral: Don't mess with the Doc!

Sounds like my sister that needed to give a urethral cath to a man that was sexually harassing her.   

raivo

Quote from: Flying Pig on December 01, 2015, 01:52:10 PMIn particular with the USAF, nuclear security would be a great way to train up and get the credibility for someone wanting to later get into LE or high end security fields.

Ehhh. WSA/missile cop is not nearly as glamorous/marketable as you might think.

CAP Member, 2000-20??
USAF Officer, 2009-2018
Recipient of a Mitchell Award Of Irrelevant Number

"No combat-ready unit has ever passed inspection. No inspection-ready unit has ever survived combat."

abdsp51

Quote from: raivo on December 02, 2015, 03:58:05 AM
Quote from: Flying Pig on December 01, 2015, 01:52:10 PMIn particular with the USAF, nuclear security would be a great way to train up and get the credibility for someone wanting to later get into LE or high end security fields.

Ehhh. WSA/missile cop is not nearly as glamorous/marketable as you might think.

Nope.  Very few of those guys have a easy time with adapting to reg duties when they come out of the fields.

raivo

Quote from: abdsp51 on December 02, 2015, 04:01:26 AMNope.  Very few of those guys have a easy time with adapting to reg duties when they come out of the fields.

"I don't have to share all my medical issues with my commander? THERE'S NO RULES!"

CAP Member, 2000-20??
USAF Officer, 2009-2018
Recipient of a Mitchell Award Of Irrelevant Number

"No combat-ready unit has ever passed inspection. No inspection-ready unit has ever survived combat."

Garibaldi

Quote from: raivo on December 02, 2015, 04:16:14 AM
Quote from: abdsp51 on December 02, 2015, 04:01:26 AMNope.  Very few of those guys have a easy time with adapting to reg duties when they come out of the fields.

"I don't have to share all my medical issues with my commander? THERE'S NO RULES!"

orly? check CAPF-161. All that stuff IS REQUIRED!!!!!  >:D >:D >:D
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

Flying Pig

Quote from: raivo on December 02, 2015, 03:58:05 AM
Quote from: Flying Pig on December 01, 2015, 01:52:10 PMIn particular with the USAF, nuclear security would be a great way to train up and get the credibility for someone wanting to later get into LE or high end security fields.

Ehhh. WSA/missile cop is not nearly as glamorous/marketable as you might think.

In the Marines, its an Infantry based MOS.  You go to security forces after infantry school.  So you get to maintain all of your infantry skills as well as your security stuff.  I was a machine gunner by trade.  When my 2 years in Security Forces was up, I went to an infantry unit as a machine gunner. 

blackrain

Worked with a great bunch in Iraq in 2008...crazy..crazy times with a lot of things going boom......Some were very smart (their CO was an AFA Grad) and executed a very tough job day in and day out. Investigators attached to them most certainly knew their job and I learned a lot from them) However some of the younger ones had a tendency to get into trouble... >:D..shocked face..shacking up with local nationals...drinking in violation of GO1...among other infractions and yes sadly some in one group pilfered from the little PX there.................keeping them out of trouble was a full time job for the whole leadership, myself included.....
"If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly" PVT Murphy

AlphaSigOU

Quote from: Flying Pig on December 01, 2015, 04:02:50 PM
As a grunt, I always made fun of cooks... .I had a buddy who was a cook and we got into it one night (all in good fun) while on deployment.  A while later, we come back from a week in the field and make it in just in time for the chow hall.  Every once in a while they would serve breakfast all day.  French toast and omelets to order.  I think it was training for the new cooks.... I dunno....  So that night Im making my way through the omelet line.  He steps in and relieves the PFC who was on the griddle as I walk up and says in a smart a-- voice  "Well Well Well..... look whose come to apologize.  I knew you'd come crawling in eventually"   >:D  Dude made me a great omelet....after I said I was sorry.  He caught me crossing my fingers too.

Don't be dissing any cooks... you know their unofficial motto: DEATH FROM WITHIN!!! (Ex-Air Farce cook... cook's hat, whites and apron long since retired!)
Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040

kirbahashi

There is no problem with giving each other crap as service men and woman.  In fact I highly encourage it.  I would even go as far as saying Aerial Porters have the worst job because their jobs literally suck dookie.

But the job Defenders do every day is serious and deadly. These were USAF Cops and AFOSI Agents.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/12/21/mass-casualty-in-afghanistan-six-u-s-troops-dead-others-wounded/
The Next of Kin notifications have been made, but I won't say names.  DOD should release those today.

We all have jobs to do, some more glorious than others.
There's only one thing I hate more than lying: skim milk. Which is water that's lying about being milk.

Flying Pig

Ive always enjoyed good natured inter service rivalry.  Its pretty easy when you are a former Marine.   >:D     Whats even better is when two vets are taking jabs and someone chimes in who never served... "chirp chirp....chirp chirp"

Paul_AK

Quote from: abdsp51 on December 02, 2015, 04:01:26 AM
Quote from: raivo on December 02, 2015, 03:58:05 AM
Quote from: Flying Pig on December 01, 2015, 01:52:10 PMIn particular with the USAF, nuclear security would be a great way to train up and get the credibility for someone wanting to later get into LE or high end security fields.

Ehhh. WSA/missile cop is not nearly as glamorous/marketable as you might think.

Nope.  Very few of those guys have a easy time with adapting to reg duties when they come out of the fields.
Blame AFPC for keeping us there too long, I've always been a proponent of turning it into a controlled tour. My first CMSgt was on his fourth assignment to Malmstrom and the Ops Superintendent when I left was a SMSgt who had been there 14 years straight. Prior to separating into the Reserves I had heard that one of the ideas being floated for force reduction was that they were planning on kicking out any cop who couldn't be sent to a nuke base.
Paul M. McBride
TSgt, 176 SFS, AKANG
1st Lt, AK CAP
        
Earhart #13376

abdsp51

Quote from: Paul_AK on December 31, 2015, 04:15:10 PM
Blame AFPC for keeping us there too long, I've always been a proponent of turning it into a controlled tour. My first CMSgt was on his fourth assignment to Malmstrom and the Ops Superintendent when I left was a SMSgt who had been there 14 years straight. Prior to separating into the Reserves I had heard that one of the ideas being floated for force reduction was that they were planning on kicking out any cop who couldn't be sent to a nuke base.

I've recently heard that too and that is the dumbest thing ever.  Sorry but a good junk of folks are not going to get PRP certified with the current standards in place not to mention the attention that area has on it these days. 

The last round of force management hit the 3P field hard.  This is the same mentality as "If you can't deploy, then you shouldn't be a cop..." which is BS..

Flying Pig

When I was in the Marines in security forces, not all Security Force Marines could qualify for the PRP. Those who could went to PRP installations and those who couldn't served well in other places.

TheTravelingAirman

Certain SPs I know have recently lost badges and berets for failing to meet PRP standards. And it was a size able number of our base's SPs.

Paul_AK

Quote from: TheTravelingAirman on January 01, 2016, 12:37:37 AM
Certain SPs I know have recently lost badges and berets for failing to meet PRP standards. And it was a size able number of our base's SPs.
Just curious, meet or remain at? Several times I've had the displeasure of suffering the "punish all" syndrome of higher-ups due to the infractions of a few. A number of those included cops losing badges for drug infractions or other, more serious offenses.
Paul M. McBride
TSgt, 176 SFS, AKANG
1st Lt, AK CAP
        
Earhart #13376

TheTravelingAirman

Couldn't meet initial requirements. SrA generally too. Wasn't going to ask since it seems a sensitive subject as to what exactly they didn't meet requirements-wise. There is a lot that you need and even a good attitude and behavior doesn't mean you won't have a medical issue and vice-versa.

lordmonar

Just curious.....what does it mean to lose your beret and badge as a Security Forces guy?

As a comm guy if you got decertified  for failing an MSEP or screwing up on the job it just meant that you had to re-qualify on those tasks.   Any disciplinary actions would be separate from the decertification.

Now I know that if you are PRP there are lots of ways to get your PRP cert pulled with out there being any misconduct.   If you take certain medications you can't pull PRP duties for example.   It does not mean you can't be a cop....you just can't pull any PRP required taskings.

So......in general....what sort of thing do you have to do to lose your badge and beret?   What does that mean for your AFSC/career/air force commitment?
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

abdsp51

Quote from: lordmonar on January 01, 2016, 03:56:59 AM
Just curious.....what does it mean to lose your beret and badge as a Security Forces guy?

As a comm guy if you got decertified  for failing an MSEP or screwing up on the job it just meant that you had to re-qualify on those tasks.   Any disciplinary actions would be separate from the decertification.

Now I know that if you are PRP there are lots of ways to get your PRP cert pulled with out there being any misconduct.   If you take certain medications you can't pull PRP duties for example.   It does not mean you can't be a cop....you just can't pull any PRP required taskings.

So......in general....what sort of thing do you have to do to lose your badge and beret?   What does that mean for your AFSC/career/air force commitment?

Pat here ya go.

1) It's a kick to the balls especially for those who love the job. 
2) There is a stigma attached when it happens that you are automatically a dirtbag and in some kind of trouble

In general to lose it there are few different things like failing cdc's, failing pt, criminal conduct, AFSC being rescinded etc.  What it means for some people is the chance to retrain stay in the AF and do their time.  Others its a discharge and shown the door depending on the circumstances.  Cops eat their own for everything especially something deemed minor in the rest of the AF. 

Quite honestly this whole thing of if you cant be PRP you cant be a cop is dumb and a poor decision.  Not every installation requires it and you're shooting yourself in the foot at the unit level on up if they go that route. 

And frankly there are a few folks I have known during my time as a Defender that I wouldn't want going to the fields or anywhere near those assets.  I had a hard time trusting some of them to do something as simple as watching planes and doing their sweeps properly. 

This is one area I think they need a new shred for the field for folks to do the missles, bombers etc not everyone is cut out for the duty and those guys tend to get hooked up a lot. 

TheTravelingAirman

Indeed. Our friend lost her badge and beret and has been reclassed to what I believe to be 9A000 (Awaiting Retraining - Reasons beyond control) but could be 9A1 (Awt Rtn-within control). Just prior to my PCS she had been released to FSS and was working in a warehouse. She's hoping to retrain rather than just be let go, but it's not in her hands anymore.

Also, ABDSP51... just a shot in the dark, but Air Base Defense-Security Police?

Paul_AK

#56
Quote from: abdsp51 on January 01, 2016, 04:48:07 AM
Quite honestly this whole thing of if you cant be PRP you cant be a cop is dumb and a poor decision.  Not every installation requires it and you're shooting yourself in the foot at the unit level on up if they go that route. 

And frankly there are a few folks I have known during my time as a Defender that I wouldn't want going to the fields or anywhere near those assets.  I had a hard time trusting some of them to do something as simple as watching planes and doing their sweeps properly. 

This is one area I think they need a new shred for the field for folks to do the missles, bombers etc not everyone is cut out for the duty and those guys tend to get hooked up a lot.
The life and the mission at a Global Strike base is far better than what it was when I first arrived there. Sad that it took embarassments like the Minot incident or the fiasco at F.E. Warren to get the ball rolling, though. And yes, there were plenty of morons on nuke duty who somehow managed to get and stay on PRP. Luckily most get weeded out but it's a watch and wait, unfortunately.
Paul M. McBride
TSgt, 176 SFS, AKANG
1st Lt, AK CAP
        
Earhart #13376

abdsp51

Quote from: TheTravelingAirman on January 01, 2016, 08:35:07 AM
Also, ABDSP51... just a shot in the dark, but Air Base Defense-Security Police?

Yep...