CAP Photo ID project

[whatevah]

Who knows, maybe you'll be the designer of the ID card that thousands of CAP members will be carrying in their wallets for umpteen years.

hmmm... any reason why one of us designers could submit our own design to NHQ for an idea?

[Pylon]

Who knows, maybe you'll be the designer of the ID card that thousands of CAP members will be carrying in their wallets for umpteen years.

hmmm... any reason why one of us designers could submit our own design to NHQ for an idea?

I don't see why not.  In college, I did my fair share of designing IDs.   

[whatevah]

haha

I've never done an ID, but have done a few too many business cards, which I suppose are similar enough for me to give it a try.

[Pylon]

haha

I've never done an ID, but have done a few too many business cards, which I suppose are similar enough for me to give it a try.

Why don't we give it a try.  I mean -- everybody seems to have a good idea of why the current one is bad, and how we could do better.  Why don't we put our "superior" thoughts into action and design some proposals that might potentially please the memebrship majority and the USAF.

It can't hurt to try, right?

[arajca]

Well, how about people put up ONE feature with justification per post. Exclude the obvious (photo, CAP emblem/seal/majcomm, Name, etc). Just consider such stuff as orientation; placement of logos, photo, data; background; etc. You can post about as many as you like, just one per post to help keep things clear.

First shot:
Orientation - portrait/vertical
Helps make it line up with CAPF101 when worn on clip.
Less likely to be confused with a 'Guest' pass.
Looks more professional. IMHO.

[Pylon]

Sure, I'll play.

Security Features -  Hologram needed.

Anybody with spare time and a PVC printer from eBay could make them otherwise.
Gives credibility to the IDs when presented to law enforcement and others when on missions.
Won't look like a college student made it. 

[SarDragon]

You're making that sound much simpler than it probably will be. Will eBay have 52 of these printers available? Who will fund them? Who will operate them? Price of special consumables?

I think real IDs is a great idea, but when I see statements prefixed with "Anyone ...", or "All you have to do is ...", or "Just ...", my BS meter immediately jumps past mid-scale.

[whatevah]

You're making that sound much simpler than it probably will be. Will eBay have 52 of these printers available? Who will fund them? Who will operate them? Price of special consumables?

I think real IDs is a great idea, but when I see statements prefixed with "Anyone ...", or "All you have to do is ...", or "Just ...", my BS meter immediately jumps past mid-scale.

I think he meant that if we don't include a hologram, anybody could buy a card printer off of ebay and use it to print out FAKE ID cards (like they do at colleges and such all the time).  I don't think he was meaning for each wing to buy their own equipment and do everything that way.  I think we all still intend for NHQ to continue printing out the cards, but the cards should have one of our designs which include the features being posted here.

[SarDragon]

Gotcha. Missed the all important "otherwise" in that sentence.

[whatevah]

I thought that might be the case, no problem.

Any features missing from the current CAP membership cards that you'd like to see?  I'm gonna be busy all day today (work, class, CAP meeting) but I'll try and play around tonight.

[Pylon]

I thought that might be the case, no problem.

Any features missing from the current CAP membership cards that you'd like to see?  I'm gonna be busy all day today (work, class, CAP meeting) but I'll try and play around tonight.

Photo's -  lacking from the current membership cards, I'd like to see the membership cards changed to ID cards and the photos added.  I think almost everyone is in agreement with this.  If we don't want to replace the basic membership card yet, we should still get a new professional photo ID card to replace the horrible, forgable, unconvincing, antiquated Form 19 ID Card.

[abysmal]

Rather than asking what you want to see ON the new card, why not ask exactly what the new card is supposed to do that the current one doesn't and then just fill in the blanks.

After all, what will this spanky new ID card get us that the current one doesn't now??

[Pace]

Here's always been my beef with the way CAP does cards.  We have one for membership, one for ES, another for the corporate driver's license, etc.  Why not combine a few, say the 101 card and the membership card, all the while making the ID card look more professional and incorporate a photo.  Here's just an idea:

[Pylon]

Rather than asking what you want to see ON the new card, why not ask exactly what the new card is supposed to do that the current one doesn't and then just fill in the blanks.

After all, what will this spanky new ID card get us that the current one doesn't now??

The current plastic card we receive from national is a membership card, not an ID card.  The current CAP ID card is nothing more than a cheaply laminated piece of paper with a photo glued to it.  It's old, unsecure, and doesn't look credible in the least bit.  College students forging IDs for kids down the hall can make things that look twice as professional and three times as convincing.

A new card should be an ID card that's professional and credible looking, that covers all the basics -- photo, name, grade, USAF Auxiliary, hologram, etc.

The features have been pretty much consistent from the original proposed ID card that looked like the CAC, and the newest proposed design (that looked like a library card).  The features aren't necessarily what we're worried about.  It seems NHQ has it down what they want out of an ID card.  It just seems that the professional and credible look part is difficult to pin down.



Pace, nice idea!  I like the vertical orientation and especially the idea of combining the 101, Driver's license, memebership and ID cards into one card.   I can't think of anything better for the back than these qualifications.  It's better use of the backside than CAP's mission statement or the core values!

[abysmal]

The current plastic card we receive from national is a membership card, not an ID card.  The current CAP ID card is nothing more than a cheaply laminated piece of paper with a photo glued to it.  It's old, unsecure, and doesn't look credible in the least bit.

But to what end?
So we end up with this KILLER ID CARD.
So what?

Will it do ANYTHING in reality that the current Library card doesn't??

When has your current Library card stopped you from being able to do something in CAP that the new High-Speed ID Card would have allowed??

I am not trying to be the Devil's Advocate, and I am happy to pay the price for a much better ID Card, I am just really honestly currious what we are all expecting this thing to do for us. The idea of having the ES Ratings on the backside makes VERY good sence. That would actually DO something the current card fails to do anytime we use it.

[Pylon]

The current plastic card we receive from national is a membership card, not an ID card.  The current CAP ID card is nothing more than a cheaply laminated piece of paper with a photo glued to it.  It's old, unsecure, and doesn't look credible in the least bit.

But to what end?
So we end up with this KILLER ID CARD.
So what?

Will it do ANYTHING in reality that the current Library card doesn't??

When has your current Library card stopped you from being able to do something in CAP that the new High-Speed ID Card would have allowed??

I am not trying to be the Devil's Advocate, and I am happy to pay the price for a much better ID Card, I am just really honestly currious what we are all expecting this thing to do for us. The idea of having the ES Ratings on the backside makes VERY good sence. That would actually DO something the current card fails to do anytime we use it.

Have you seen the current CAPF 19 ID Card?  It's a ratty piece of paper, with your picture cut out and taped or glued to it, stuck in a cheap lamination pouch.  It's something a forger could have made in the 1970s, and something that any college kid with 15 minutes could instantaneously reproduce to perfection.

It holds no credibility with law enforcement or other agencies.  There are indeed cases of CAP Ground Teams going out to airports, marinas and other locations all the time, mostly in the middle of the night.  Once an ELT is located in an aircraft, boat, or building, many times law enforcement has to be called as CAP cannot enter on our own.   Law Enforcement officials have in the past and will continue to show up, never having heard of Civil Air Patrol.  We tell them we're on an official mission from the Air Force and that some device inside this building/plane/boat must be shut off and we need their help to open it because we can't.

Any good police officer who has never heard of Civil Air Patrol is going to want to see proof that we're just not some guys in cammies trying to break into something.  What can we give them?  Our cut n' paste CAPF 19?  A handful of various cards to link the name on our membership card with our Driver's license photo with our 101 card?

This is just one example of where a professional photo ID is something CAP has been in dire need of for some time.

How can we expect to carry out official Air Force missions, act as professionals, and enter/exit military facilities when we can't even get an ID card that shows we are actually a part of this and we didn't just order some stuff from The Hock online and print off our own membership card?  How are we to be taken seriously?

If someone seriously questioned our purpose somewhere, whether it be on a base or a mission or elsewhere, we don't have a very convincing way of proving our purpose.  We have to explain things at length, go into what CAP is, show them minimally several different cards, and hope they buy the story.

Sorry -- that doesn't cut it for me.  NHQ and the USAF have the capability to give us proper identification, I don't see why we should stick with the membership card + whatever state-issued license you have + 101 Card system.  Seems pretty unprofessional and "fly-by-night boiler room operation" to me.

[abysmal]

Seems pretty unprofessional and "fly-by-night boiler room operation" to me.

And that my friend pretty well sums up CAP for the last many years.
I think the case can be well made that the USAF is NOT all that concerned that CAP members are able to exact any higher levels of "Credibility" either On or Off Base.
In fact it could be said that they are working hard to make sure we Don't obtain more credibility..

But I do like your argument, and I would like a better ID Card as well.

[Major_Chuck]

Here's always been my beef with the way CAP does cards.  We have one for membership, one for ES, another for the corporate driver's license, etc.  Why not combine a few, say the 101 card and the membership card, all the while making the ID card look more professional and incorporate a photo.  Here's just an idea:

The problem with your certifications on the reverse is if they change (expire or you add to it).  Do you end up having to get a new card?  It is a good use of the reverse though then wasting it with the 'mission statement' or 'safety pledge' as Pylon said.

Second issue:  The barcode.  What information do we want stored in the barcode and who has barcode readers readily available?

-CC

[Pace]

I got bored so I modified my idea a little more.  Some of the useless stuff on the back has been removed, and a few more (probably required) pieces of the 101 card were added.  The CAPID number was also added to the front so that the card incorporates the numerical and barcode CAPID.  This means that the card now includes the membership card, the ID, and the 101 card.  I doubt that it would be possible to incorporate the corporate driver's license since those are still issued by wing.
NOTE: Because I had to reduce the resolution to host the image, some parts of the card are nearly unreadable.

[Major_Chuck]

By taking off your height, weight, hair color, eye color you've turned it back  into a 101 card. 


What about members who are not active in Emergency Services but are focused on Cadet Programs or Aerospace Education? As a matter of Cadet Protection shouldn't the date of CPPT training be indicated somewhere.

[Pace]

The problem with your certifications on the reverse is if they change (expire or you add to it).  Do you end up having to get a new card?  It is a good use of the reverse though then wasting it with the 'mission statement' or 'safety pledge' as Pylon said.

In a perfect world, any time one received a new rating or one expired, a new card would be issued.  In reality, I think the option should be made available to buy a new card if one so chooses or simply wait until the next time a card is issued (upon membership renewal).

Second issue:  The barcode.  What information do we want stored in the barcode and who has barcode readers readily available?

The barcode was pulled straight from the current 101 card.  It's just the CAPID.  I believe the idea was to one day incorporate the use of barcodes into ES operations at SAREXs and on missions for quicker check-in and check-out of personnel.  The idea was also to have admin linked to MIMS so that the most current ES information on the individual would be available to the mission staff.  National liked the barcode so I figured I'd add it to my idea.

[Pace]

By taking off your height, weight, hair color, eye color you've turned it back  into a 101 card.

No, I didn't.  The height, weight, hair color, and eye color are currently on the 101 card.  I took them off because you have a picture of the member on the front of the card...and because there's no room left on the back of the card.  The 101 card also doesn't include the membership expiration month/year.  The 101 card is also currently not designed to be on a PVC card.  Other than that, the current membership card and 101 card share the member's name, unit, CAPID #, the barcode, and the member's grade.

What about members who are not active in Emergency Services but are focused on Cadet Programs or Aerospace Education? As a matter of Cadet Protection shouldn't the date of CPPT training be indicated somewhere.

Then their 101 card (the reverse side of the new card) would appear just like their 101 card appears now.

Besides, since when do CAP members have an issued card that reflects CPPT completion.

[Pylon]

I could see CPPT being a useful achievement to note, if you're going to be listing achievements on the reverse.  Certain achievements, such as CPPT, Radio Operators Permits (Basic and Advanced), CAP Driver's License, or certain specialty ratings (MLO, Chaplain, etc) would be handy to have on the card; whereas other achievements (professional development levels and seminars) would really serve no purpose being on the actual ID card.

It all depends on whether you want to identify that member's capabilities on the back or not.  Capabilities mean more than ES ratings, however.  If you're going to do it at all, I'd say add in the other essentials I mentioned above.

[arajca]

I could see CPPT being a useful achievement to note, if you're going to be listing achievements on the reverse.  Certain achievements, such as CPPT, Radio Operators Permits (Basic and Advanced), CAP Driver's License, or certain specialty ratings (MLO, Chaplain, etc) would be handy to have on the card; whereas other achievements (professional development levels and seminars) would really serve no purpose being on the actual ID card.

It all depends on whether you want to identify that member's capabilities on the back or not.  Capabilities mean more than ES ratings, however.  If you're going to do it at all, I'd say add in the other essentials I mentioned above.

Instead of putting "CPPT Date" or something similar, use a bright red stripe (1/2" min) along one edge, front and back, to indicate those who have NOT completed CPPT. It is easier to see.

The only PD ratings (if any) that I think should be on the card might be Chaplain, HSO, MLO, Safety. Those are specific ratings that are applicable at ANY CAP function/activity.

The problem with using the ID card as a 101card comes when ES quals expire. Say I take advantage of the multiyear renewal national is looking at. If a qual expires in the first year, I would need to replace my card. If I don't want to spend the $5 (min) National would probably charge for a replacement card, I could keep saying I am still qualified. On the flip, if I add a qual, I have to get a new card or carry some documnetation saying I am qualified. The current program for 101cards works well enough. When I add/lose a qual, I can easily print out a new card. With a real photo ID, the picture can be dropped from the 101card. If each mission had a check in with access to a current National ES qual database, the barcode scanning would cover that, but that capability doesn't exist uniformly.

If we could get National to track ROA cards (have the wings still issue them, but have a spot in MIMS to input the ROA card number), putting the ROA # would be nice. Same with the CAP driver's license (more accurately a Corporate Vehicle Operator's Permit) number and vehicle type permitted.

I'd still put ht/wt/hair/eye color on the card. It serves as a back up to the photo.

Another security feature would be to randomly print a b&w CAP seal over the upper edge of the photo overlapping onto the card background, but not covering the face. Follow this with a hologram overlay with the CAP seal/AF wing in a repeated pattern.

Also, put the CIVIL AIR PATROL above the US Air Force Auxilary. We don't want someone thinking this is an Air Force card.

Remember, all the information has to be available in the National database for the card to work.

Yea, I know. this is more than one item, put when the juices start flowing, it's hard to stop.

[Major_Chuck]

I recommended the CPPT training because at an activity you don't know who has actually completed the mandatory training requirement.  In todays world it would serve as a safeguard to our Cadet Members.  This would be handy when you don't have a computer to verify information.

Every card that I have had that has served as a form of identification has also listed height, weight, hair color etc as a security feature to verify the holder as that person.

-CC

By taking off your height, weight, hair color, eye color you've turned it back  into a 101 card.

No, I didn't.  The height, weight, hair color, and eye color are currently on the 101 card.  I took them off because you have a picture of the member on the front of the card...and because there's no room left on the back of the card.  The 101 card also doesn't include the membership expiration month/year.  The 101 card is also currently not designed to be on a PVC card.  Other than that, the current membership card and 101 card share the member's name, unit, CAPID #, the barcode, and the member's grade.

What about members who are not active in Emergency Services but are focused on Cadet Programs or Aerospace Education? As a matter of Cadet Protection shouldn't the date of CPPT training be indicated somewhere.

Then their 101 card (the reverse side of the new card) would appear just like their 101 card appears now.

Besides, since when do CAP members have an issued card that reflects CPPT completion.

[Pace]

My design was simply to resolve my beef with having to keep up with all the different cards if it is feasible to incorporate them into one card (or at least fewer cards).

I have no problem with adding other qualifications such as the ones listed, and I do agree with the logic for having them.  Including those was never a thought of mine because I was only combining features of existing cards.  Please, keep the ideas coming.  It may also be beneficial if someone with better design abilities than me could take these ideas and make a few model cards incorporating some of the various ideas proposed here.  The repeating background hologram idea is a great one, but well out of my capability of graphically designing.  I understand the CPPT idea. Don't know that I agree with putting it on the card, but that's a different matter.  The ht/wt/etc info was simply a matter of not having enough space.

As for having to replace the card because of expired specialties, the specialty expiration date is on the card now.  If you chose not to buy a replacement card, the mission staff would still be able to take one look at your card with the expired rating and say "Hey, this is expired.  You'll have to find something else to do."  I do, however, agree with the problem presented when a new rating is earned.  Maybe I'm way off base here about trying to put the 101 card on the ID.  Maybe the wheel isn't broken and doesn't need to be reinvented.  If I'm wrong, there's apparently plenty that can take the place of the 101 card on the back of the card.

I know my design is far from perfection, but I figured I would get the ball rolling so that more people would start throwing their ideas out.

[Pylon]

My design was simply to resolve my beef with having to keep up with all the different cards if it is feasible to incorporate them into one card (or at least fewer cards).

I have no problem with adding other qualifications such as the ones listed, and I do agree with the logic for having them.  Including those was never a thought of mine because I was only combining features of existing cards.  Please, keep the ideas coming.  It may also be beneficial if someone with better design abilities than me could take these ideas and make a few model cards incorporating some of the various ideas proposed here.  The repeating background hologram idea is a great one, but well out of my capability of graphically designing.  I understand the CPPT idea. Don't know that I agree with putting it on the card, but that's a different matter.  The ht/wt/etc info was simply a matter of not having enough space.

As for having to replace the card because of expired specialties, the specialty expiration date is on the card now.  If you chose not to buy a replacement card, the mission staff would still be able to take one look at your card with the expired rating and say "Hey, this is expired.  You'll have to find something else to do."  I do, however, agree with the problem presented when a new rating is earned.  Maybe I'm way off base here about trying to put the 101 card on the ID.  Maybe the wheel isn't broken and doesn't need to be reinvented.  If I'm wrong, there's apparently plenty that can take the place of the 101 card on the back of the card.

I know my design is far from perfection, but I figured I would get the ball rolling so that more people would start throwing their ideas out.

Here's an idea!  Use all the old-style Armed Forces IDs that the military has kicking around; the ones they try to unload on new ROTC cadets and other people that they don't want to bother issue the new-style CAC.   

[Major_Chuck]

I agree 100%.  One card that does all would be the most ideal situation.  However this is CAP and we work at a speed slighter slower than a snail at times.

In the ideal world.   All of our information in placed on a chip like the AF or a barcode.  Someone with a barcode scanner linked to a secure site at National would only need to scan the barcode and obtain current up to the minute information.  No need to change anything.

My design was simply to resolve my beef with having to keep up with all the different cards if it is feasible to incorporate them into one card (or at least fewer cards).

I have no problem with adding other qualifications such as the ones listed, and I do agree with the logic for having them.  Including those was never a thought of mine because I was only combining features of existing cards.  Please, keep the ideas coming.  It may also be beneficial if someone with better design abilities than me could take these ideas and make a few model cards incorporating some of the various ideas proposed here.  The repeating background hologram idea is a great one, but well out of my capability of graphically designing.  I understand the CPPT idea. Don't know that I agree with putting it on the card, but that's a different matter.  The ht/wt/etc info was simply a matter of not having enough space.

As for having to replace the card because of expired specialties, the specialty expiration date is on the card now.  If you chose not to buy a replacement card, the mission staff would still be able to take one look at your card with the expired rating and say "Hey, this is expired.  You'll have to find something else to do."  I do, however, agree with the problem presented when a new rating is earned.  Maybe I'm way off base here about trying to put the 101 card on the ID.  Maybe the wheel isn't broken and doesn't need to be reinvented.  If I'm wrong, there's apparently plenty that can take the place of the 101 card on the back of the card.

I know my design is far from perfection, but I figured I would get the ball rolling so that more people would start throwing their ideas out.

[Major_Chuck]

I'm okay with this option as well, let's all look like we're retired.

My design was simply to resolve my beef with having to keep up with all the different cards if it is feasible to incorporate them into one card (or at least fewer cards).

I have no problem with adding other qualifications such as the ones listed, and I do agree with the logic for having them.  Including those was never a thought of mine because I was only combining features of existing cards.  Please, keep the ideas coming.  It may also be beneficial if someone with better design abilities than me could take these ideas and make a few model cards incorporating some of the various ideas proposed here.  The repeating background hologram idea is a great one, but well out of my capability of graphically designing.  I understand the CPPT idea. Don't know that I agree with putting it on the card, but that's a different matter.  The ht/wt/etc info was simply a matter of not having enough space.

As for having to replace the card because of expired specialties, the specialty expiration date is on the card now.  If you chose not to buy a replacement card, the mission staff would still be able to take one look at your card with the expired rating and say "Hey, this is expired.  You'll have to find something else to do."  I do, however, agree with the problem presented when a new rating is earned.  Maybe I'm way off base here about trying to put the 101 card on the ID.  Maybe the wheel isn't broken and doesn't need to be reinvented.  If I'm wrong, there's apparently plenty that can take the place of the 101 card on the back of the card.

I know my design is far from perfection, but I figured I would get the ball rolling so that more people would start throwing their ideas out.

Here's an idea!  Use all the old-style Armed Forces IDs that the military has kicking around; the ones they try to unload on new ROTC cadets and other people that they don't want to bother issue the new-style CAC.   

[JaL5597]

I saw the new photo id card.  Its very diffrent from the first proposal and what was being batted around on here.  It appearantly got approved and sent to the Air Force for their approval.

[Pylon]

I saw the new photo id card.  Its very diffrent from the first proposal and what was being batted around on here.  It appearantly got approved and sent to the Air Force for their approval.

From what I heard the NB disapproved that design.  Hmm... guess we have to ask an insider about that one.  The minutes won't be out until the next NEC meeting. 

[JaL5597]

I saw the new photo id card.  Its very diffrent from the first proposal and what was being batted around on here.  It appearantly got approved and sent to the Air Force for their approval.

From what I heard the NB disapproved that design.  Hmm... guess we have to ask an insider about that one.  The minutes won't be out until the next NEC meeting. 

My wing commander showed us the design.  He indicated it was approved and sent to the Air Force.

Staff call was a very long meeting, hey I could of been sleeping by that point.

[BlueLakes1]

I was at NBs, I missed the vote but I had dinner with a wing CC there who told me the design they voted on was rejected.

[SarDragon]

By taking off your height, weight, hair color, eye color you've turned it back  into a 101 card. 


What about members who are not active in Emergency Services but are focused on Cadet Programs or Aerospace Education? As a matter of Cadet Protection shouldn't the date of CPPT training be indicated somewhere.

No need. If a member hasn't completed CPPT, they don't get one of these cards.

[PhoenixRisen]

Here's one of my designs, which is similar to the contractor's CAC(i know they turned down the CAC-like one, but this is worth a try). I know some of you were aiming for somthing that said 'Civil Air Patrol' on it, but i designed this before I saw that post, so I put it on here anyways.

BTW, if anyone's wondering, those arent my ratings(I currently dont have any, seeing as how im only a C/A1C), i just copied some of those from the 101 card printout page.

[arajca]

Not a bad design. A couple of suggestions:
1. Drop the separate color for Flight Officers. They are Senior Members.
2. I don't see the need to put "ACTIVE" under the membership type. Generally, if someone is using this id, they will be active members
3. I've already addressed issues with putting the 101 card on the back.

Other general suggestions:
1. Include a printed "The member shown on the front of this card is an active member of Civil Air Patrol" and a line for the CAP/CC signature (mostly put on when the card is printed) on the back.
2. I think the physical information should be on the front, not back.
3. Include a "If found return to" statement on the the back. Find out what the USPS requires for an auto return to National. Add that if feasible.
4. Civil Air Patrol name need to be prominent. USAF Aux. (or similar text) needs to be a secondary name to avoid confusion. And almost certain shoot down by the AF.

4. Include a barcode with CAPID encoded.

[BillB]

I'm getting confused. I've seen 3-4 different designs for a new photo ID card replacing the current CAPF 19. What design did the NB turn down? What design did USAF approve?  And, why doesn't the USAF design a photo ID card for CAP, that the NB has no authority over?
I have two CAPF 19's, one from the 1980's and the other from just a couple of years ago. The CPPF 19 followed the design of DoD ID cards, but printed on blue paper stock. Do an ID that follows DoD/USAF designs is nothing new for CAP. But in this post 9/11 era, we do need a photo ID that DoD will recognize.

[JaL5597]

I'm getting confused. I've seen 3-4 different designs for a new photo ID card replacing the current CAPF 19. What design did the NB turn down? What design did USAF approve?  And, why doesn't the USAF design a photo ID card for CAP, that the NB has no authority over?
I have two CAPF 19's, one from the 1980's and the other from just a couple of years ago. The CPPF 19 followed the design of DoD ID cards, but printed on blue paper stock. Do an ID that follows DoD/USAF designs is nothing new for CAP. But in this post 9/11 era, we do need a photo ID that DoD will recognize.

The design I saw at staff call featured the picture on the left hand side.  The major background item was the CAP MAJCOM insignia.  I quickly glanced at the information on it.  I know it atleast has name and grade.  I assume the other blocks would be charter number and expiration date.

This card featured a male Captain.

I am not sure what other ones are out there.

[PhoenixRisen]

I'm getting confused. I've seen 3-4 different designs for a new photo ID card replacing the current CAPF 19. What design did the NB turn down? What design did USAF approve?  And, why doesn't the USAF design a photo ID card for CAP, that the NB has no authority over?
I have two CAPF 19's, one from the 1980's and the other from just a couple of years ago. The CPPF 19 followed the design of DoD ID cards, but printed on blue paper stock. Do an ID that follows DoD/USAF designs is nothing new for CAP. But in this post 9/11 era, we do need a photo ID that DoD will recognize.

The one they turned down was the one that looked similar to the DoD Common Access Card(CAC)



But that's the Active Duty/Guard/Reserve and Civilian CAC, mabye they could possibly accept one that looks like the contractors CAC(like the one i designed).

[PhoenixRisen]

Not a bad design. A couple of suggestions:
1. Drop the separate color for Flight Officers. They are Senior Members.
2. I don't see the need to put "ACTIVE" under the membership type. Generally, if someone is using this id, they will be active members
3. I've already addressed issues with putting the 101 card on the back.

Other general suggestions:
1. Include a printed "The member shown on the front of this card is an active member of Civil Air Patrol" and a line for the CAP/CC signature (mostly put on when the card is printed) on the back.
2. I think the physical information should be on the front, not back.
3. Include a "If found return to" statement on the the back. Find out what the USPS requires for an auto return to National. Add that if feasible.
4. Civil Air Patrol name need to be prominent. USAF Aux. (or similar text) needs to be a secondary name to avoid confusion. And almost certain shoot down by the AF.

4. Include a barcode with CAPID encoded.

Here's an updated design(kinda blurry though).

[arajca]

Looks like you got most of my concerns, but the "Civil Air Patrol" still appears as a secondary name. I made the "Civil Air Patrol" white and removed the USAF Aux text. It would be replaced by a holographic overlay along with the new AF symbol.

Looking at it more throughly, the physical data is ok on the back since there is a lot of information on the front. The benefit of having it on the front is National would only have to print one side. The back could come preprinted from the card supplier. Thus saving money.

[attachment deleted by admin- older than one year]

[PhoenixRisen]

Looks like you got most of my concerns, but the "Civil Air Patrol" still appears as a secondary name. I made the "Civil Air Patrol" white and removed the USAF Aux text. It would be replaced by a holographic overlay along with the new AF symbol.

Looking at it more throughly, the physical data is ok on the back since there is a lot of information on the front. The benefit of having it on the front is National would only have to print one side. The back could come preprinted from the card supplier. Thus saving money.

couldn't you get everything else except the physical data already be printed on the card, so atleast we could save a little money?

[arajca]

It would still come down to printing a double sided card vs a single sided card. If one side comes preprinted with everything, you only need to print one side.

If you have to print on both sides, you need a double sided printer (add a few hundred for this feature) with the appropriate ribbon(s). If you stick with a single sided printer, you half to run the card through twice (once front, once back). This take labor which costs money.

[PhoenixRisen]

It would still come down to printing a double sided card vs a single sided card. If one side comes preprinted with everything, you only need to print one side.

If you have to print on both sides, you need a double sided printer (add a few hundred for this feature) with the appropriate ribbon(s). If you stick with a single sided printer, you half to run the card through twice (once front, once back). This take labor which costs money.

My opinion is that we take off the physical data, so that the back side can come preprinted. Personally, I see no need for it when you have a picture on the front.

[pixelwonk]

My opinion is that we take off the physical data, so that the back side can come preprinted. Personally, I see no need for it when you have a picture on the front.

bingo...

Someone give this young man a cookie for  common sense!

[PhoenixRisen]

My opinion is that we take off the physical data, so that the back side can come preprinted. Personally, I see no need for it when you have a picture on the front.

bingo...

Someone give this young man a cookie for  common sense!

Heh heh. thank you sir

[PhoenixRisen]

Has anyone come up with any new designs or anything to contribute to this, lately?

[afgeo4]

Care to add the member's grade?   Also, someone should give Maj Gen Pineda his grade back next to his signature.  It's only fitting.  I like the design overall, but I'd wait to see what the new CAC will look like.  We could be very close to the new design and the DoD would turn it down, AGAIN.

[Pylon]

Care to add the member's grade?   Also, someone should give Maj Gen Pineda his grade back next to his signature.  It's only fitting.  I like the design overall, but I'd wait to see what the new CAC will look like.  We could be very close to the new design and the DoD would turn it down, AGAIN.

(Nota Bene: Thick Sarcasm involved here)

Maybe we should issue a Wehrpass-like ID document, like the German military used to issue to soldiers and officers.  It was a little bigger than a passport, had about 10 pages in it, and doubled as your personal copy of your personnel records as well as your primary form of identification.  It had your photo, your unit assignments, all the awards you were authorized to wear, any special ratings or clearances, etc.  Each entry was signed by the appropriate commander and the unit's stamp was affixed next to it.

We could combine our 101 cards, radio operator cards, membership and ID cards all into one booklet!  When your membership got renewed, or your earned an ES rating, or you were promoted or earned a new ribbon, the commander just makes the entry into the booklet, stamps it, and voila!   

[Matt]

It's just so crazy that is just might work.... 

[Pylon]

It's just so crazy that is just might work.... 

Hey, at least with the 10-page passport-style booklet ID, the USAF couldn't get all worried that someone might mistake us for a DoD contractor who mows the lawn, god forbid.

Of course, we'd have to get a big pocket sewn on all of our various uniforms so we could stuff it somewhere.  But these are just minor considerations... the Air Force's inability to control secure areas should be our primary concern when making an ID for our organization.   

[MIKE]

Isn't the Soldbuch also a pay book like the Brits had about the same timeframe...  If it were used in CAP it would obviously be in reverse, but would be a Finance Officers nightmare when its time for Pay Parade to note dues payments and the like.

"Your papers, please."  Sounds better in German though. 

[Matt]

"Your papers, please."  Sounds better in German though. 

Do I hear the Great Escape playing?

[Pylon]

"Your papers, please."  Sounds better in German though. 

As if there were any other way to say it, than with a thick Bavarian accent...

And yes, the Soldbuch was a booklet similar to the Wehrpass in which a soldier's pay was recorded.  It noted when they received pay, how much they were entitled to, etc.  The Wehrpass, although similar in look, is actually a separate document and was intended more for identification, proof of status, and all-around personnel records.  Military police would often stop soldiers to check their Wehrpass, to make sure they were supposed to be on leave, to see if they had proper orders to go where they were going, to ensure they weren't wearing any awards they weren't authorized, and to generally harass them.   

I've modified the above suggested Soldbuch/Wehrpass idea to a sample Civil Air Patrol version.   

[MIKE]

I've modified the above suggested Soldbuch/Wehrpass idea to a sample Civil Air Patrol version.   

Der pic ist broken. 

[SarDragon]

You know, we have enough trouble with the cadets keeping track of a simple three-ring binder, which if lost, doesn't represent an earth-shattering event. Entrusting them with their entire career in a passport size booklet is just asking for disaster. If you tell me that there is also their CAPF 66, then we are doubling the admin burden with little additional benefit.

[ARandomCadet]

It's just so crazy that is just might work.... 

Of course, we'd have to get a big pocket sewn on all of our various uniforms so we could stuff it somewhere.  But these are just minor considerations... the Air Force's inability to control secure areas should be our primary concern when making an ID for our organization.   

True that we do need to consider the security issue. We need to get on bases without the length of time it takes, and we need to prove who we are. I know 7th graders that can make better cards than what they give us, security wise.

[lordmonar]

It's just so crazy that is just might work.... 

Of course, we'd have to get a big pocket sewn on all of our various uniforms so we could stuff it somewhere.  But these are just minor considerations... the Air Force's inability to control secure areas should be our primary concern when making an ID for our organization.   

True that we do need to consider the security issue. We need to get on bases without the length of time it takes, and we need to prove who we are. I know 7th graders that can make better cards than what they give us, security wise.

Hey!  Welcome to CAPTALK.......and I think you took the record for Necroing a dead thread!

[ARandomCadet]

It's just so crazy that is just might work.... 

Of course, we'd have to get a big pocket sewn on all of our various uniforms so we could stuff it somewhere.  But these are just minor considerations... the Air Force's inability to control secure areas should be our primary concern when making an ID for our organization.   

True that we do need to consider the security issue. We need to get on bases without the length of time it takes, and we need to prove who we are. I know 7th graders that can make better cards than what they give us, security wise.

Hey!  Welcome to CAPTALK.......and I think you took the record for Necroing a dead thread!

Thanks!

[SarDragon]

We have a winner - by 268 days, for a current record of 2707 days!

Mr. Rainey, it is prudent to check the dates on posts you are considering responding to. Posting on a thread that hasn't had any activity for almost seven and a half years it almost certainly a wasted effort.

[Critical AOA]

Well he did get two of you to respond.

Ooops... make that three of us.

:angel: