CAP NCO's

[Spaceman3750]

Wow...  My "source" was a photo of a female NCO with a 3-prop design and it was soemwhere on this fourm...

Wow?  Asking to cite a source is now asking too much?

How about, I don't know, linking to the photo.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=11978.msg248404#msg248404

[PHall]

Eclipse, suprise us all: Bring something positive to the table.

He just asked for a simple cite. Get over it.

And a one off picture, that looks like a photoshop job, is not exactly a trusted source.

[sandman]

Eclipse, suprise us all: Bring something positive to the table.

He just asked for a simple cite. Get over it.

And a one off picture, that looks like a photoshop job, is not exactly a trusted source.

Now that's not very nice.

The photo was not photo-shopped at all. I have access to the original source photo...better yet, call the CMSgt yourself...

[Майор Хаткевич]

So it's not shopped. It's definitely not an authorized wear item.

[sandman]

So it's not shopped. It's definitely not an authorized wear item.

(...Heavy Sigh...)

I understand what you mean.

But something about Major General Carr (Then BG Carr), CAP National Commander, standing there in the photo makes it seem a little less taboo...

[sarmed1]

So it's not shopped. It's definitely not an authorized wear item.

But something about Major General Carr (Then BG Carr), CAP National Commander, standing there in the photo makes it seem a little less taboo...

...yes well that makes it all perfectly legit doesnt it; I have used that argument before in other contexts and have pretty much gotten beat down so I am gonna have to call BS on this one then.

mk

[lordmonar]

I love how things morph on this forum.

Geeze......Hardshell was repeating a rumor.......a rumor that was started right here on this very thread.....and everyone is talking like he said that the stripes were already authorised and he was going out and buying them right now.

Everyone give it a rest....

[sandman]

So it's not shopped. It's definitely not an authorized wear item.

But something about Major General Carr (Then BG Carr), CAP National Commander, standing there in the photo makes it seem a little less taboo...

...yes well that makes it all perfectly legit doesnt it; I have used that argument before in other contexts and have pretty much gotten beat down so I am gonna have to call BS on this one then.

mk

All,

You can call it as you like.

The main point of this sub-thread and the photo I posted was to point out that CMSgt Walpus was wearing a set of CMSgt stripes that could potentially be introduced to CAP.

As SarDragon pointed out, it was probably a "one-off" set produced by Vanguard (Having been to the offices in Carlsbad, CA many times, I know that they have done this more than once).

CMSgt Walpus was photographed with a cadet and Brig Gen Charles Carr (now Maj Gen Carr, CAP National Commander) at the recent Air Force Sergeant's Association (AFSA) Professional Airman's Conference on 23 to 27 July 2011 at the Grand Hyatt Hotel, San Antonio, Texas.

I know the cadet and the CAP PAO officer.

So, to be clear...the photograph of the CAO CMSgt stripes worn by CMSgt Walpus was not photo-shopped.

Brig Gen Carr and CMSgt Walpus gave a briefing discussing changes under development for the CAP NCO program. However, specifics were not delineated nor was a solid implementation date given.

So, in typical "military" fashion: Stand-by to stand-by.....

And...thank you to all the RM NCO's and CAP NCO's currently serving as volunteers in this program. Your contribution is appreciated by this former NCO and current RM officer....

[Nolan Teel]

I still wish there was a program in place for NCOs to promote and for those to join the NCO Core!  Thats my .02 not to open a can of worms.

[PHall]

I still wish there was a program in place for NCOs to promote and for those to join the NCO Core!  Thats my .02 not to open a can of worms.

That would be NCO Corps. An apple has a core...

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Personally I would love to see an NCO corps, I know I would drop my butter bar for some stripes, even if I have to start at the bottom.

[PHall]

Personally I would love to see an NCO corps, I know I would drop my butter bar for some stripes, even if I have to start at the bottom.

And what would the NCO Corps do that you couldn't do as an "officer"?  This is an answer looking for a question.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Personally I would love to see an NCO corps, I know I would drop my butter bar for some stripes, even if I have to start at the bottom.

And what would the NCO Corps do that you couldn't do as an "officer"?  This is an answer looking for a question.

That sounds more like a question looking for an answer, and yes I do get the intended effect, however if you need to ask the question then you don't have the answer at all.

An NCO leads differently than an officer does, point blank, they just do. If you have someone who knows how to lead as an NCO teaching cadet NCOs then you have cadet NCOs leading as NCOs, not everyone trying to lead as the chief,lets face it, that is how cadets are taught as things are now, were we to have an NCO corps, that could change and cadets would have the knowledge of two vastly different types of leadership.

[NCRblues]

oh here we go again.... 

here is the argument so far

"whew, were ganna get a revitalized NCO corp"

"ok, and what does an NCO do in CAP?"

"well they....uh...they lead different"

"oh they do? Different from the hundreds if no thousands who are former NCO's or current NCO's wearing officer grade in cap right now"

"well...a CAP NCO could do amazing things for the CP"

"a CAP officer can do amazing things for CP..."

back and forth..no end in sight.... 

[arajca]

Personally I would love to see an NCO corps, I know I would drop my butter bar for some stripes, even if I have to start at the bottom.

And what would the NCO Corps do that you couldn't do as an "officer"?  This is an answer looking for a question.

That sounds more like a question looking for an answer, and yes I do get the intended effect, however if you need to ask the question then you don't have the answer at all.

An NCO leads differently than an officer does, point blank, they just do. If you have someone who knows how to lead as an NCO teaching cadet NCOs then you have cadet NCOs leading as NCOs, not everyone trying to lead as the chief,lets face it, that is how cadets are taught as things are now, were we to have an NCO corps, that could change and cadets would have the knowledge of two vastly different types of leadership.

A problem with most CAP NCOs I have seen is they completely discount, if not outrightly mock, the cadet officer part of the program. That is the single biggest issue - they try to equate the cadet enlisted progression with the military enlisted progression, where E-9 is the end. Unlike the military, E-9 is not even halfway through, but convincing some CAP NCOs of that is a lost cause because "they're REAL NCOs" and know better.

[a2capt]

"well...a CAP NCO could do amazing things for the CP"

"a CAP officer can do amazing things for CP..."

..and the argument is implying that "I won't do it because I have not got the stripes". Okay, fine. Stand aside. Someone else will, in the case.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Ok, what is the NCO corps?
WIKI definition:
The non-commissioned officer corps is often referred to as "the backbone" of the armed services, as they are the primary and most visible leaders for most military personnel. Additionally, they are the leaders primarily responsible for executing a military organization's mission and for training military personnel so they are prepared to execute their missions. NCO training and education typically includes leadership and management as well as service-specific and combat training.
(Just edit out the combat training for CAP, and you have what we really could benefit from.)

"I am a Noncommissioned Officer in the United States Air Force. I hold allegiance to my country, devotion to duty, and personal integrity above all. I wear my rank of authority with dignity, I promote the highest standards of conduct, appearance, and performance by setting the example. I seek no favors because of my rank. I am devoted to the concept of service rather than personal gain. I uphold the traditions of noncommissioned officers who precede me. I manage resources under my control with astute efficiency, and lead the way with the highest level of competence. I always strive to merit the respect of my fellow noncommissioned officers and of all with whom I come in contact."

That is the Air Force NCO creed, it portrays a different leadership style than that of the Commissioned Officer. To me and many others there is a difference of leadership style than that of Commissioned Officers, in that Commissioned Officers lead in a manner of, do as I say and get it done.
While NCOs lead with more of a style of do as I project and LET'S get the job done together. NCOs would lead by by example and lead from within those they are appointed over while an officer leads from the rear saying get it done.

An officer tells an NCO a job needs to get done, and gives them the time schedule that they have to meet. The NCO then goes to his subordinates and tells them what needs done, and actually assists in completing the job ensuring everyone is safe and efficient about the job.

Also, what is an NCOs primary responsibility and duty?
Training.
I know, Officers in CAP can do all of the training, but what are we trying to mirror and what are we trying to give to the cadets? We are mirroring the Air Force, and we are trying to give the cadets a military type setting and training, that can be done more efficiently with an NCO corps.

"well...a CAP NCO could do amazing things for the CP"

"a CAP officer can do amazing things for CP..."

..and the argument is implying that "I won't do it because I have not got the stripes". Okay, fine. Stand aside. Someone else will, in the case.

What do you mean? I don't get what you are saying. Are you implying that some CAP officers aren't doing their jobs because they are being forced to be officers instead of NCOs? If so, I don't see where you are getting that from. I would love to be an NCO in CAP, but I will gladly do my job as an officer.

[NCRblues]

I know, Officers in CAP can do all of the training, but what are we trying to mirror and what are we trying to give to the cadets? We are mirroring the Air Force, and we are trying to give the cadets a military type setting and training, that can be done more efficiently with an NCO corps.

"well...a CAP NCO could do amazing things for the CP"

"a CAP officer can do amazing things for CP..."

..and the argument is implying that "I won't do it because I have not got the stripes". Okay, fine. Stand aside. Someone else will, in the case.

What do you mean? I don't get what you are saying. Are you implying that some CAP officers aren't doing their jobs because they are being forced to be officers instead of NCOs? If so, I don't see where you are getting that from. I would love to be an NCO in CAP, but I will gladly do my job as an officer.

What i was saying is, one of the arguments tossed out here as to why we need an NCO corp in cap so bad is, NCO's would be great for the CP. The other half of that argument is, well, CAP officers can be just as good for the CP...

[PHall]

Kinda hard to have an NCO Corps if there are no enlisted folk for them to lead.

Cadets are not "enlisted" folk. They are "cadets", i.e. Officers in Training.

[jimmydeanno]

Also, what is an NCOs primary responsibility and duty?
Training.

I always thought it was mid-level management, ensuring that the policies and procedures directed by the officer corps were carried out.