wait to go to encampment?

[whatevah]

over on cadetstuff, somebody brought up a question similar to this...

how long should cadets wait before they attend their first encampment?

minimum of a month?  6 months?  a year?  until they have passed the Wright Brothers Award?

personally, as long as they have passed the Curry (like the regs say), I think they should attend encampment ASAP. Passing the Curry ensures they have a basic knowledge of CAP, have at least a complete blues uniform (by regs), and should have a complete bdu set.   Waiting longer will make the encampment classes a little more boring, and the cadets will zone out stuff they may not know. And, of course... who wants a C/CMSgt as a trainee when his encampment flight sergeant is a C/MSgt or C/SMSgt?

your comments?

[MIKE]

I went to my first encampment as a C/MSgt in 1999 at 18... It wasn't very high on my list of priorities up until I was a SNCO and getting my Mitchell started to look like it was likely gonna happen... When I joined in summer of 1997 promoting was not a high priority since we had an established cadet cadre and other stuff kept me ocuppied... Getting my Mitchell was pretty far off then... I was never one of those cadets who has ambitions of getting the Spaatz or what not.

At first encampment was one of those things to get out of the way on the road to getting a set of pips... I ended up returning the next year as a C/1st Lt and served in the Headquarters Squadron.

I think a minimum time in service of 6 months sounds like a good minimum wait time before cadets attend their first encampment.  Rushing  new cadets through Achievement 1 and encampment within a month of initial membership creates too much of a burden for all concerned IMO.  6 months TIS seems like it would help a new cadet get acclimated to CAP prior to encampment.

[whatevah]

so, if a cadet joins in February, and you have encampments in the beginning of July, the cadet should wait until the next year?

'Tis my opinion that cadets attend encampment as soon as possible. Encampments (that I've been to) teach all the basics cadets need to know, instill the followership and teamwork principles and give a good view of what's possible in the Cadet Program, CAP and the military.

Plus, the statistics show that cadets who attend an encampment will stay in longer than those who don't.  That alone should be reason enough to encourage cadets who attend encampment. It's one of the most memorable events they'll attend in CAP.

[Pylon]

I'm of the opinion that cadets should go at their first opportunity.  Why wait?  The whole purpose of the encampment is to be a well-rounded, all-encompassing, orientation to CAP and military life.  I don't see why a cadet should wait longer.  Seems to me that the longer a cadet waits to do their basic encampment, the more they will find boring at encampment because they already know it.

Cadet retention is hard, but encampment is one of those things that ropes cadets in, breaks up the monotony of the weekly squadron meetings, and gives cadets something to look forward to for the next summer.

In addition, the earlier a cadet gets an encampment under their belt, the earlier they can start looking at NCSAs.  If they wait another year to go to an encampment, they lose the opportunity to go to NCSAs for the next summer as well.

I've seen plenty of "newbie" cadets show up, barely just having their first stripe pinned on, and do just fine at encampment.  In their orientation phase of just entering the cadet program, they should be sufficiently orientated by the time they get that Curry stripe to handle encampment.  With their Curry done, they should already know things like the grade structures, cadet oath, how to wear their uniform properly, and other basic things about CAP. 

Encampment's role is not to build upon advanced skills assuming that the basics are already known, but rather to re-hash over all the basics and make sure that all the cadets are well-rounded and are on the same page.

[abysmal]

I am STRONGLY encouraging ALL of my Cadets to attend this summer's encampment. 50% of my Cadets are Sr. Airman or Below. And of my 28 total Cadets not more than 6 of them have ever been to Encampment, and 5 of those are 2nd Lt.

When I was a Cadet many long years ago, I went to my first encampment at Fort Ord and had such a good time that I went back to a 2nd encampment a few weeks later at March AFB the same summer.

Those two encampments back to back made for one heck of a great summer when I was a teenager.

[arajca]

I am STRONGLY encouraging ALL of my Cadets to attend this summer's encampment. 50% of my Cadets are Sr. Airman or Below. And of my 28 total Cadets not more than 6 of them have ever been to Encampment, and 5 of those are 2nd Lt.

I was under the impression that encampment was a requirement for the Mitchell.

[abysmal]

It is, but why wait till the last minute?

[arajca]

So how did those 5 C/2d Lt's get their grade?

[abysmal]

So how did those 5 C/2d Lt's get their grade?

All 5 of them have been to encampment.
They make up 5 of the 6 total cadets in the sqaudron that have been.

[MIKE]

So how did those 5 C/2d Lt's get their grade?

All 5 of them have been to encampment.
They make up 5 of the 6 total cadets in the sqaudron that have been.

If arajca read it like I did the first time through, he may have been thinking that you had at least one C/2d Lt who had not completed an encampment prior to promotion action as required per CAPR 52-16.

[abysmal]

I can see where he might have read into it like that.

[Da Big Daddy K]

The BEST encampment that I have personally seen is TRI WING IN MARYLAND. Both cadets and staff do a lot and learn a lot.Remember CAP is about what you learn as you are going up the ranks LEADERSHIP AND FOLLOWERSHIP.

[abysmal]

The BEST encampment that I have personally seen is TRI WING IN MARYLAND. Both cadets and staff do a lot and learn a lot.Remember CAP is about what you learn as you are going up the ranks LEADERSHIP AND FOLLOWERSHIP.

Looking back on my short years as a cadet, encampment was, without a doubt,  the highlight of it.

But then I didn't find out about CAP till I was 17.

[Schmidty06]

Get them to go to encampment ASAP.  I see it as you're not a "real" or "full-blown" cadet until after you've graduated your first encampment.  It teaches you a lot of the knowledge that you need early on in the program.

[abysmal]

Get them to go to encampment ASAP.  I see it as you're not a "real" or "full-blown" cadet until after you've graduated your first encampment.  It teaches you a lot of the knowledge that you need early on in the program.

I wish it was so easy.
The basic cost of $225 is a major issue.
But then add in the transportation costs to get halfway across the state, and all of the required uniform items and personal items and it will cost my Cadets $400 to go to encampment.
And in this little river town, that is a HUGE amount of money for most of these Cadets.

Thus I only have 2 out of 29 that can afford to attend this year, and the squardon is in no shape to help off-set any of those costs.

[Schmidty06]

Depending on your starting and finishing points, yo ucould possibly request military airlift for transport.

[whatevah]

man... $225 for an encampment.  I think our encampment is down to $80 for cadets, and FREE for seniors.

Back at my old squadron, when the encampment cost was around $120, my squadron would pay for all members who attended, by holding various fundraisers throughout the year.

[abysmal]

man... $225 for an encampment.  I think our encampment is down to $80 for cadets, and FREE for seniors.

Back at my old squadron, when the encampment cost was around $120, my squadron would pay for all members who attended, by holding various fundraisers throughout the year.

And based on the cadet's ability to pay, it looks like we are going to HAVE TO DO some major fundraising this year in preperation for next year's encampment if we want any of our cadet to attend.

[A1Steaksauce]

haha my FltSgt was a C/MSgt and i was a Chief. I basicly did his job.

[ZigZag911]

Based on experience as:

1) basic at encampment
2) two time cadet staff member
3) ten years encampment staff as a senior, including four tours at 'executive'
level

my observation is that cadets need about 6 months adjustment to CAP to do well in the encampment environment.

This varies somewhat according to age....the new cadet who comes aboard in February would probably do OK at July encampment....unless the individual is somewhat immature, not used to being away from home.....with cadets like that, the 6 to 18 months that pass before their SECOND encampment opportunity, plus the advancement in and experience of the CAP cadet program, bring the to encampment better prepared and in a better frame of mind to participate and enjoy the learning experience.

[ctrossen]

How long should a cadet wait until attending encampment?

It all depends on that cadet. There is no "pat" answer.

As a Squadron Commander, and as someone who's spent many years as Commandant of Cadets at the Wisconsin Encampment, I wouldn't recommend sending someone who's been a member for less than, say, six months. Certainly not someone who hasn't earned their first stripe.

Now, there have been some cases where a member has been around for some time, but in conference with a cadet's parents, we decided that individual just wasn't ready for encampment that year. And in cases like that, we're talking about a cadet that's just too young and/or immature to handle the program (getting up at 0600, making bunks, marching around all day, etc.).

On the flip side, units have sent cadet members who just weren't ready to handle the program. Sometimes, they're able to tough it out, but they leave with a negative impression - they ended up so far behind the "curve" that they gave up. Sometimes they turn around and become impressive cadets. And sometimes they just can't cut it and we have to send them home - hopefully to come back the next year.

There's no magical age or level of experience. It all depends upon the individual. If there's any question at all, you need to talk with that cadet's parents and get their point of view. Perhaps you have the cadet wait a year. It's far less an issue for putting encampment off a year when you're talking a 12-year-old cadet - there's PLENTY of time left in their careers to go back.

(And for the record, I attended my first encampment at 13, went to a total of 7 encampments as a cadet -- and a whole lot more as a senior. )

[MIKE]

Certainly not someone who hasn't earned their first stripe.

That's kind of a given since it is required by CAPR 52-16.

On the flip side, units have sent cadet members who just weren't ready to handle the program. Sometimes, they're able to tough it out, but they leave with a negative impression - they ended up so far behind the "curve" that they gave up. Sometimes they turn around and become impressive cadets. And sometimes they just can't cut it and we have to send them home - hopefully to come back the next year.

I think it might be a bit of a shock to the system for a cadet who is only a month or so into the program.  Ink on the CAPF 15 is still wet and he/she is standing there wondering what they got themselves into...  The experience, good or bad, ends up being the deciding factor in them staying with the program afterward.

[c/LTCOLorbust]

I don't know how your Encampments are but over here in WA Wing they are bit to harsh for a normal 12-13 year old kid. Even just the 5 in the morning late at night hours throw them off and makes it a bit more unstable then they need. I mean not to say encampmnet it to hard, its not some may even be to easy but thats not without saying 12 and 13 year olds have so much on their plates as it is going through the first teenage years that encampment some times is a strsser to the breaking point. If the cadet shows that they know everthing they need to and understands what goes on and as do the parents its fine but some cadets we try to hold off because they get the picture from some of our more laidback SMs that encampment is just like summer camp... Well I have no idea what summer camp they have been to but it is nothing of the sort. I mean when your Flight Sgt acts like this  you may be in for a ride.

[Psicorp]

My first encampment was as a c/SSGT...and I was still wondering what I had gotten myself into  

It's my feeling that, especially with drill work, that you may understand the basic fundamentals, but after that first encampment, you know them....and more importantly, you know why.  There's nothing quite like standing in formation when you're just one cadet in a pretty good sized flight that's only one flight in one squadron that's only one squadron in the whole wing.  

It's a total sense of belonging that is really hard to grasp when you're only one of maybe eight other kids showing up to a meeting every week.

So definately...go when you have the first opportunity.  Go twice...bring a friend, hell, bring an enemy and pay him/her back

As far as affordability...Encampments can be sponsored by corporations to help bring down the cost.  Something else that can be done is fundraisers.  What we did when I was a cadet was have a couple of car washes.  The total number of hours worked by all the cadets was divided by the amount of money raised.  Each cadet got "paid" based upon how many hours she/he worked at the car wash.  That money went against the cost of the encampment for each cadet.

[Psicorp]

I don't know how your Encampments are but over here in WA Wing they are bit to harsh for a normal 12-13 year old kid. Even just the 5 in the morning late at night hours throw them off and makes it a bit more unstable then they need. I mean not to say encampmnet it to hard, its not some may even be to easy but thats not without saying 12 and 13 year olds have so much on their plates as it is going through the first teenage years that encampment some times is a strsser to the breaking point. If the cadet shows that they know everthing they need to and understands what goes on and as do the parents its fine but some cadets we try to hold off because they get the picture from some of our more laidback SMs that encampment is just like summer camp... Well I have no idea what summer camp they have been to but it is nothing of the sort. I mean when your Flight Sgt acts like this  you may be in for a ride.

Am I the only one who's referred to Encampments as "a week of Air Force basic training"?    People tend to know exactly the kind of thing you're talking about when you put it that way.

As far as how rough it is, I think that's why having a TACO assigned to each flight is important; to reign in the cadet staff if need be, or to provide counselling/assistance to cadets showing signs of stress (as well as yelling, "Don't lock your knees!!")

[A1Steaksauce]

Well I think that Cadets should be at least a C/SrA before attending encampment. This way they have to have been in the program for at least 6 months and they know most basic info. But on the flip side I think that encampment should be a requirement for C/MSgt so they don't end up going to encampment as a C/CMSgt like I did. And I think that encampment age limit should be 14 so younger cadets don't hold back the majority.
.......There's my two cents..........

[Becks]

I disagree, I say as long as you have a stripe, go ahead and go.

[capchiro]

It has been my experience that our cadet retention rate is higher for the cadets that go to encampment than the ones that don't.  I also think it is okay to send fairly new/young cadets to encampment as it sends them back with a new appreciation of the program.  JMHO

[ncc1912]

Am I the only one who's referred to Encampments as "a week of Air Force basic training"?    People tend to know exactly the kind of thing you're talking about when you put it that way.

As far as how rough it is, I think that's why having a TACO assigned to each flight is important; to reign in the cadet staff if need be, or to provide counselling/assistance to cadets showing signs of stress (as well as yelling, "Don't lock your knees!!")

It really isn't supposed to be "rough," but a fun, learning experience and a orientation into time management, attention to detail, followership/leadership and teamwork.  ...And not just for the basics, but for the cadet and adult staff, as well.  If done properly, the encampment can do that for every attendant regardless of age and rank.

I've been through a few encampments; some "rough" and some not so intense.  I've also had the privilege of attending Air Force Basic Military Training (BMT), and honestly, some of the rough and easy encampments were no where near BMT on both ends of the spectrum.  I wouldn't use that analogy so liberally.