ES Patch - Clarification

[Thonawit]

From CAPR 35-6

3. Requirements for Award of the CAP Emergency Services Patch. Current and qualified in accordance with CAPR 60-3, CAP Emergency Services Training and Operational Missions as a general emergency services member with one additional specialty qualification.

Am I correct in assuming that you need the following to wear the ES patch on the BDU uniform;
1 GES qualification (116/117 and basic requirements for Cadet or Senior)
2 Any ES specialty qualification ie MSA, MRO, FLM, etc.

Thanks

[jhighman]

You are correct in your interpretation. It is important to note that one must not merely be a trainee in a qualification, but rather that they are fully qualified. The two basic entry-level positions are Mission Scanner or Mission Staff Assistant. Almost every other aircrew position or mission base position will require the former as prerequisites to enter training.

[Plane]

From what I understand, to wear the patch you must hold any specialty qualification listed in OpsQuals (and GES to attend a SAREX for training)  A lot of people, myself included, acquire the patch from becoming qualified in GTM3.

[arajca]

You are correct in your interpretation. It is important to note that one must not merely be a trainee in a qualification, but rather that they are fully qualified. The two basic entry-level positions are Mission Scanner or Mission Staff Assistant. Almost every other aircrew position or mission base position will require the former as prerequisites to enter training.

Only partially correct. MRO, FLM, UDF, GTM3, and CERT do not require either MSA or MS.

[Storm Chaser]

1 GES qualification (116/117 and basic requirements for Cadet or Senior)

While the appropriate CAPT 117 is required for qualification in most ES specialties, it's not required for GES.

[SarDragon]

And, once you get all the quals completed, you need to have the patch awarded in eServices.

[JeffDG]

And, once you get all the quals completed, you need to have the patch awarded in eServices.

Beat me to it.  CAPR 35-6, Para 8:

b. CAP wing or region commanders (or their designees) and school/activity directors, as
appropriate, are the approval authority for the award of aeronautical ratings, ES qualification,
ground team, or incident commander badges, and ES patches to members within their
organization.

[Thonawit]

Thanks for the information everybody

[AirAux]

Do you lose the patch when your qualifications drop off? 

[Plane]

No, most any badge (ES Patch, GT Badges, etc) is permanent.  You can continue to wear them when the qualification itself expires.

[Luis R. Ramos]

The ES Patch is not considered a badge. The ES Patch has to be taken down, but the badges do not. GTM, GTL, those are badges.

From Knowledge Base quoting from CAPR 35-6:

Requirements for Award of the CAP Emergency Services Patch. Qualified IAW CAPR 60-3, CAP Emergency Services Training and Operational Missions as a general emergency services member with one additional emergency services specialty qualification.

Edited to add:

If you read CAPM 39-1, the Uniforms Manual, it separates badges from patches.

From CAPM 39-1:

10.7.22. Emergency Services Patch (style 1 & 2). May be worn by members who are current and qualified emergency services members in accordance with CAPR 35-6, Aeronautical Ratings, Emergency Services Patch and Badges, and Ground Team Badges.

[Storm Chaser]

The new CAPR 35-6, dated 23 January 2015, contradicts CAPM 39-1:

Once a rating, award, badge, or patch is earned in accordance with this regulation, the member may continue to wear it even if they no longer hold the associated qualifications unless directed by the wing, region, or national commander to remove it through another formal command action.

[arajca]

Wow! A conflict between regulations.

Everyone who is surprised, please raise your hand.

[Plane]

Intriguing...

[Luis R. Ramos]

After I read that reply to my post from Storm, I went back to the CAP Knowledge Base. Here is what I found:

CAP KB:

Just like the Air Force, once the Emergency Services (ES) or ground team badges are earned, they can be worn forever.

The ES patch requires a member to be current and qualified though, which means that once a member is no longer qualified they are supposed to remove the ES patch.

See additional details in CAPR 35-6 Operations Ratings, Awards and Badges 23 January 2015.

The original answer of 2014 was updated. By adding a cite to the appropriate regulation. But they did not went far enough. This answer, in short, is contradicting itself...

[SarDragon]

When I resumed participation in ES, after a many year break, I showed my long expired MO 101 card to my CC, and he said I could wear my ES patch if I wanted to.

[Garibaldi]

When I resumed participation in ES, after a many year break, I showed my long expired MO 101 card to my CC, and he said I could wear my ES patch if I wanted to.

Honeatly, is anyone REALLY going to challenge another for a patch? Not many people have that large a stick up their whatzit unless, say, one day I don't have a GT badge, and the next I have a Senior. Or observer wings when peopls know durn well I can't fly. I'm not saying hand them out like...like...donuts at a SAREX, but...

[Luis R. Ramos]

Garibaldi,

Honestly, what wing are you? Does that really REALLY happens? You actually get donuts at a SAREX?

I am impressed!

Just kidding. Sometimes I also get donuts at a SAREX. Depends on who will be doing the Finance and MSA duties... Other times it is donuts if we take them individually...

[jeders]

The new CAPR 35-6, dated 23 January 2015, contradicts CAPM 39-1:

Once a rating, award, badge, or patch is earned in accordance with this regulation, the member may continue to wear it even if they no longer hold the associated qualifications unless directed by the wing, region, or national commander to remove it through another formal command action.

The part in bold I take to mean that since 39-1 says you have to be current in order to wear the ES Patch, you take it off when not current. Thus eliminating the contradiction.

Of course I also believe that the language in 39-1 was simply intended to restate 35-6, not countermand it. Hopefully an update to 39-1 will be put out at some point (not that I'm holding my breath) which will remove the currently qualified language. In the meantime, the odds of this being enforced, as if it was ever enforced, are statistically negligible.

[Storm Chaser]

The new CAPR 35-6, dated 23 January 2015, contradicts CAPM 39-1:

Once a rating, award, badge, or patch is earned in accordance with this regulation, the member may continue to wear it even if they no longer hold the associated qualifications unless directed by the wing, region, or national commander to remove it through another formal command action.

The part in bold I take to mean that since 39-1 says you have to be current in order to wear the ES Patch, you take it off when not current. Thus eliminating the contradiction.

I disagree. Not only was CAPR 35-6 published after CAPM 39-1, it is the regulation that sets the criteria to earn and wear these badges and patches. CAPM 39-1 cannot supersede CAPR 35-6 regarding these, but only regulate their placement on the uniform.